is omar vizquel the best defensive ss of all time

[ricky151]

I bring this up because of his 9 straight gold gloves and even though he has lost a step he is still right up there among the best defensively. In terms of longevity and being able to play a position like ss, so good and for so long is remarkable. It feels like yesterday that he was robbing guys of hits back in clevland and turning insane double plays.

[ricky151]

i guess for me its a coin toss between them. They played in different leuges during their prime defensive years. I guess i go on flips its ozzie for sure

[KCGHOST]

If you made a poll of this you find that even Omar's mother couldn't vote for him.

[BoofBonser26]

All three posts make no sense.

[Edgartohof]

I'm gonna have to go with: no.

He was/is good though. In his younger days, he was touted as the best since Ozzie (who many/most consider the best defensive SS of all-time), which is a definite compliment to him, but he still falls considerably short.

[BoSox Rule]

Not even close. Not even REMOLTELY CLOSE.

[sschirmer]

Though Omar was damn good, I too am going to have to say no. I did, however, always like watching him barehand grounders. That was awesome, and he did it more often and better than anyone else.

[ricky151]

ozzie number 1 no doubt. Would you say that arod was better defensivley than omar in thier prime. I know it does not make much of a point in saying that, but who would you rank as number 2.

[sschirmer]

Defensively I don't think A-Rod has ever been in Omar's league.

[wamby]

From what I've read of Indians history, Vizquel may not have been the best defensive SS in Cleveland Indians history, let alone baseball history.

[RuthMayBond]

I bring this up because of his 9 straight gold gloves and even though he has lost a step he is still right up there among the best defensively. In terms of longevity and being able to play a position like ss, so good and for so long is remarkable. It feels like yesterday that he was robbing guys of hits back in clevland and turning insane double plays.He did not deserve hardly any of the Gold Gloves. You'd hate to hear the list of SS that are better defensively than Omar.

[sschirmer]

Jhonny Peralta.:laugh :laugh :laugh

[Solair Wright]

Ozzie Smith is a better SS, and I saw him make less errors than Vizquel. He in my opinion is a better defenseman than Omar. It isn't a Vizquel is a bad shortstop, but his Golden Gloves aren't earned as said by RuthMayBond. I'd think the current SS for Cleveland is better, but you can't have all shortstops to be great defensively, as it's one of the top three hardest positions to play in baseball.

[johnny]

He did not deserve hardly any of the Gold Gloves. You'd hate to hear the list of SS that are better defensively than Omar.


He may not be the best defensively of all time, but with 9 freakin gold gloves he is certainly in the conversation. Just checked his stats, he actually now has 10 gold gloves just winning the 2005 gold glove award. So that's recognition by two leagues as to his defensive prowess.

[sschirmer]

I would say that he was certainly the best defensive SS on the Indians in the late 1990s.;) :p :gt

[johnny]

Who was a better defensive SS than Omar in the 90's anyway?

[RuthMayBond]

Who was a better defensive SS than Omar in the 90's anyway?It was kinda after the time of Ripken/ Guillen/ Fernandez/ Trammell/ Burleson so he didn't have much competition other than Larkin

[sschirmer]

I have to say, I spent a lot of time watching Larkin here, and defensively, I would have to take Omar over Barry.

[RuthMayBond]

I have to say, I spent a lot of time watching Larkin here, and defensively, I would have to take Omar over Barry.I've got Larkin in the slot just above Omar, and Omar will probably pass him within a year or two. And the last question was in the 90s, and Omar has continued to add to his career value this decade while Larkin has not.

[sschirmer]

At times I have thought of Omar as a bit over-rated, but this thread makes it seem as if he was defensively inept. I certainly don't think that's the case.

[RuthMayBond]

At times I have thought of Omar as a bit over-rated, but this thread makes it seem as if he was defensively inept. I certainly don't think that's the case.That's not it at all. I just wanted him rated honestly, not this stuff that he was the best ever and deserved ten Gold Gloves

[DoubleX]

I like Vizquel as a player. If not for the emergence of a totally new breed of SS during his career (A-Rod, Jeter, Nomar, Tejada), Vizquel's career would be put into better perspective, and I'd say he'd have a very decent shot at the Hall (whereas I think it's pretty unlikely now given his peers).

However, I don't think he is the best defensive SS of all time. Is he up there, certainly, but I'm not sure how far. I am pretty sure though that whomever else is up there with Vizquel, they are all standing in line behind Ozzie Smith.

Also, I would not count Gold Gloves as a great way to measure defensive ability. All too often they are given out on reputation and a player collects a few more than he usually deserves. Two examples: In 1999, Rafael Palmeiro won the AL GG at 1B, despite the fact he played just 28 games in teh field, and 135 at DH. So what does that say about Vizquel's '99 award if the writers are giving the award to a DH? The next example is Derek Jeter. He has won the last two AL GG's in the void created by A-Rod's position switch and Vizquel's league switch. But I think few would seriously argue that Jeter is a GG caliber SS, much less a multiple GG winning SS.

[DoubleX]

He was/is good though. In his younger days, he was touted as the best since Ozzie (who many/most consider the best defensive SS of all-time), which is a definite compliment to him, but he still falls considerably short.

That's not really saying much considering their careers overlapped for 7 seasons, and their peaks separated by 5 years, at most.

Also Ozzie won his last GG in 1992, while Vizquel won his first in 1993. So Vizquel was the best defensive SS to come along in the span of that offseason? Such comparisons really only work when there is significant time separating the two.

[sschirmer]

Also Ozzie won his last GG in 1992, while Vizquel won his first in 1993. So Vizquel was the best defensive SS to come along in the span of that offseason? .

That's great. I have to admire that type of perception.

[Utter Chaos]

Ozzie Smith is a better SS, and I saw him make less errors than Vizquel. That's tough to do since Ozzie made 281 errors and Omar has only made 168. Omar also has a better fielding percentage .984 to .978.

[RuthMayBond]

That's tough to do since Ozzie made 281 errors and Omar has only made 168. Omar also has a better fielding percentage .984 to .978.Could it have anything to do with the fact that Ozzie got to more batted balls, scorers have become more lenient,...?

[Utter Chaos]

Could it have anything to do with the fact that Ozzie got to more batted balls, scorers have become more lenient,...?That's possibly true but Ozzie also played more games on artificial turf than Omar so he got better bounces. I was just pointing out to the poster who claimed he say Ozzie make less errors than Omar when in fact Ozzie has made over 100 more.

I think Ozzie was an excellent shortstop but is overated because of his flashy style. Omar is also an excellent shortstop and may be slightly underrated because he's often compared to Ozzie. Ozzie may have a slight edge in overall fielding ability but I feel it's a lot closer than people think. Omar will retire with a higher batting average, more home runs, more RBI's, and a higher fielding average than Ozzie and should deserve some HOF consideration.

I just know I enjoy watching Omar and Roberto turning double plays for the Tribe in the 90's.

[RuthMayBond]

That's possibly true but Ozzie also played more games on artificial turf than Omar so he got better bounces.And grounders coming at him a LOT faster

<I think Ozzie was an excellent shortstop but is overated because of his flashy style.>

And Omar isn't? :eek:

[DoubleX]

I think Ozzie was an excellent shortstop but is overated because of his flashy style. Omar is also an excellent shortstop and may be slightly underrated because he's often compared to Ozzie. Ozzie may have a slight edge in overall fielding ability but I feel it's a lot closer than people think. Omar will retire with a higher batting average, more home runs, more RBI's, and a higher fielding average than Ozzie and should deserve some HOF consideration.

Vizquel's offensive numbers will look better on the surface because he played in the offensive-happy 90s, while much of Ozzie's career was in the offensive-depressed 80s. Vizquel benefitted from juiced balls, smaller ballparks, and thinner pitching staffs (thanks to two expansions), and not too mention lineups that featured some of the premier hitters of the day (Belle, Ramirez, Thome, Justice, Alomar, Williams, etc.). When it comes down to it, Ozzie was the better offensive player in the context of his league, but only by a light margin. His OPS+ is 87, while Vizquel's is 85. Ozzie also stole 580 bases, or 240 more than Vizquel. In sum, Vizquel is underrated, but Ozzie was the overall better player, and by some margin.