Schilling -- The Man or The Myth?

[VTSoxFan]

I had a request today from DoubleX, who has found an interesting article regarding Curt Schilling, and the reputation he "enjoys" among some fellow players. Some controversial issues are brought up, and for that reason he was hesitant to post it here lest he be thought a rabblerouser. I took a look at it and find it pretty interesting, to say the least, and quite worthy of discussion here, and XX has assured me that he in no way means to create trouble here. So, with my blessing, and Flash's too, DoubleX will shortly post the article in this thread. Please remember, he's just the messenger....

[DoubleX]

Thanks Annie, and nice thread title. ;)

Like Annie said, I came across this article today and it struck me as pretty interesting (and surprising), so I thought I'd see what other people think. This is not meant to be a Red Sox/Yankees thing, but a Curt Schilling thing (who happens to play for the Red Sox, and thus this is forum), so I wanted to see what people thought and/or if people have had these types of impressions about Schilling before?

Anyway, the article is from GQ and is titled "The 10 Most Hated Athletes" as rated by their peers. So there are players in all the sports on this list (Phil Mickelson was another name I was surprised to see), and as it turns out, Schilling's peers aren't too fond of him, as he ended up placing 4th on the list (there were two other baseball players - Barry Bonds was 2nd and AJ Pierzynski was 9th). Anyway, here's a link to the article (http://men.style.com/gq/features/full?id=content_4103&pageNum=5), but I've copied the portion about Schilling below.

“Between the white lines, it’s all real,” says one reporter who has covered Schilling. “But outside the white lines, there’s a huge gap between the man and the image he projects.” Take, for instance, Schilling’s self-glorifying display during Congress’s steroid hearings last March or his absurdly patriotic open letter to America on ESPN.com after 9/11, for which his teammates mocked him on a late-night bus ride with a chorus of “I’m a Yankee Doodle Dandy.” “They know what he’s about,” says the sportswriter. “I’d say a large percentage of them like him—every fifth day. He wears on people.”

On days he doesn’t pitch, Schilling is notorious for striking TV-ready poses on the dugout stairs. (His manager in Philadelphia, Jim Fregosi, dubbed him Red Light Curt.) “He’s somebody who’s always positioning himself in terms of what’s best for Curt Schilling,” says ESPN’s Pedro Gomez, who described Schilling as “the consummate table for one.” (Speaking of which, Schilling also has a reputation for sneaking into the clubhouse late in games to get a head start on the buffet.)

So avid is Schilling’s longing for the spotlight that some of his peers raise doubts about his now legendary turn in the 2004 postseason, when he pitched on an ankle tendon that had been sutured in place. During Game 6, cameras cut repeatedly to the bright red stain on Schilling’s sock. It was blood, right? “The Diamondbacks people think he definitely doctored that sock,” says the sportswriter. The ex-teammate laughs: “All around baseball, people questioned that. It was funny how the stain didn’t spread.”

[VTSoxFan]

For what it's worth, I saw the World Series bloody sock at the HOF last spring, and though it was behind glass, and I'm no forensic expert (though I watch them on TV ;)), it looked like real blood to me. I also don't see how a man can convincingly fake a limp like that (thinking of him running out onto the field at Busch Stadium).

Having said that, I often wish we could just tape his mouth shut.

[DoubleX]

Also, I just noticed that there is Honorable Mention section to the article with 5 athletes including the following 3 baseball players: Jeff Kent, Randy Johnson, and Alex Rodriguez.

[DoubleX]

For what it's worth, I saw the World Series bloody sock at the HOF last spring, and though it was behind glass, and I'm no forensic expert (though I watch them on TV ;)), it looked like real blood to me. I also don't see how a man can convincingly fake a limp like that (thinking of him running out onto the field at Busch Stadium).

Having said that, I often wish we could just tape his mouth shut.

I was at the Hall of Fame in September and I made a point to stay away from that case. Though I did get a good picture of Aaron Boone's bat. :p

[VTSoxFan]

I can imagine it wouldn't be your favorite exhibit. I understand, as I would take pains to avoid The Bat That Broke Tim Wakefield's Heart. It was, you understand, quite a shrine for me. ;) The exhibit was kind of hard to see through the fingerprints, nose prints and lip prints on the glass. (not mine! ick ick ick)

[Yankeebiscuitfan]

As an athlete, I think he was great. Especially with that game where his sock was soaked with blood. He just went on.

But as a person... Nah! Big mouth. Big ego. Sometimes I get the impression, that he thinks he's the center of the universe.

Although I must say that sometimes he has some humour too. During the 2001 World Series, he commented the "Mystique and Aura" signs as: Two night club dancers.

[DoubleX]

As an athlete, I think he was great. Especially with that game where his sock was soaked with blood. He just went on.

Did you read the excerpt about Schilling? Some players think that the bloody sock was a hoax.

You know, thinking back to that game, I think I thought then that it seemed kind of suspicious. I mean, Fox couldn't stop focusing on it, and whenever does a tv camera focus on a players feet? They had to have some reason to go there, and it was probably because at some point, Schilling told someone with Fox, "hey look, I'm injured, see my bloody sock." I guess drastic times call for drastic measures. Everyone wants to praise Schilling's postseason heroics in that series, but everyone seems to forget just how badly he got shelled in the first game - 3 IP, 6 hits, 6 ER. And then of course, the image of the bloody sock replaces the image of Schilling crying in the dugout after he got yanked in Game 1.

Anyway, I hoped Schilling thanked his teammates for getting him that opportunity at redemption in that series.

[Yankeebiscuitfan]

Did you read the excerpt about Schilling? Some players think that the bloody sock was a hoax.

You know, thinking back to that game, I think I thought then that it seemed kind of suspicious. I mean, Fox couldn't stop focusing on it, and whenever does a tv camera focus on a players feet? They had to have some reason to go there, and it was probably because at some point, Schilling told someone with Fox, "hey look, I'm injured, see my bloody sock." I guess drastic times call for drastic measures. Everyone wants to praise Schilling's postseason heroics in that series, but everyone seems to forget just how badly he got shelled in the first game - 3 IP, 6 hits, 6 ER. And then of course, the image of the bloody sock replaces the image of Schilling crying in the dugout after he got yanked in Game 1.

Anyway, I hoped Schilling thanked his teammates for getting him that opportunity at redemption in that series.

I did read this. But I can't believe that someone would do something like that. Not even Schilling.

[DoubleX]

I did read this. But I can't believe that someone would do something like that. Not even Schilling.

Well it sounds like he has a reputation of posing for the media, so who knows.

[runningshoes]

Schilling also has a reputation for sneaking into the clubhouse late in games to get a head start on the buffet.

What's wrong with that? :D

[CuriousBoston]

Schilling should pay attention to his pitching, not politics. If he wants to show off military gear, join up. Tape over mouth is good idea.

I have uneasy feeling he plans to go into politics when finished with baseball. I hope not. However, if he and Tom Brady ran against each other, that would be entirely appropriate.

I don't know about the Sock. I do know about the WORLD SERIES. For me, anyone remotely connected to that gets cut a lot of slack.

Except Derek Lowe, who told his wife to find another place to live; while she was in Boston and kids, and end of school year, he moved his s*** in. Glad to say wife won.

[pesky6]

I had a request today from DoubleX, who has found an interesting article regarding Curt Schilling, and the reputation he "enjoys" among some fellow players. Some controversial issues are brought up, and for that reason he was hesitant to post it here lest he be thought a rabblerouser. I took a look at it and find it pretty interesting, to say the least, and quite worthy of discussion here, and XX has assured me that he in no way means to create trouble here. So, with my blessing, and Flash's too, DoubleX will shortly post the article in this thread. Please remember, he's just the messenger....

What's stopped him before? :rolleyes:

I read that crap yesterday. One thing to keep in mind is that it was part of a "Top 5 most hated Athletes" article from some fashion magazine (GQ?). So obviously they're going to give you reasons for hating him. What do you expect?!?!?!?!?!?

I concede that he's a media whore, but because of 2004 I'll cut him some slack. Until he pulls a Damon, the guy gets a free pass from me.

[Sean Casey]

or his absurdly patriotic open letter to America on ESPN.com after 9/11, for which his teammates mocked him on a late-night bus ride with a chorus of “I’m a Yankee Doodle Dandy.”

What's so absurdly patriotic about the letter? I thought it was very good; the US had just been attacked, and I think his letter could only have helped the counrty in the wake of the tragedy.

I think most of this dislike of Schilling stems from his support of George Bush in the 2004 presidential campaign. However, what I would like to know is why there was little criticism of Carlos Delgado for (previously) refusing to stand for God Bless America as a form of opposition to the war in Iraq. Both athletes are making a political statement, but only one (Schilling) seems to have taken heat for it from the media and the fans. Could it be that some people only support freedom of speech when they agree with what the speaker has to say?

I'm not trying to make this into a political matter, but I think it's interesting to see how different Schilling and Delgado have been treated, even though what they have done (use their fame as a way to express their ideas) is very similar, albeit from different sides of the political spectrum.

[jo3]

I read that crap yesterday. One thing to keep in mind is that it was part of a "Top 5 most hated Athletes" article from some fashion magazine (GQ?). So obviously they're going to give you reasons for hating him. What do you expect?!?!?!?!?!?


I actually watched Game 6 the other day. All I can say is that for those of you who have it, re-watch it. Way too many involved with this deal for it to have been a hoax. Many agree that duct tape across his lips would be desirable at times. But, when he first spoke to the Fox reporter immediately following the game, all he said was he was glad he got the second opportunity to pitch and how unbelievable his teammates were. Also, Francona said he was struggling and almost pulled him after four innings. He may have a mouth, but he was the real deal on the field. I hope he can be again for another year or two.

[Imapotato]

Schilling is the reason most athletes give cliched responses

When someone like Curt actually is honest and says what he is thinking, he gets major flak

Schill can take it, but alot of players would rather just play ball, so if you don't like Schilling, don't ever say "why do players all say the same crap?"

They say it, because you fans are finger pointing jerks waiting to jump on someone

[DoubleX]

What's so absurdly patriotic about the letter? I thought it was very good; the US had just been attacked, and I think his letter could only have helped the counrty in the wake of the tragedy.

I think most of this dislike of Schilling stems from his support of George Bush in the 2004 presidential campaign. However, what I would like to know is why there was little criticism of Carlos Delgado for (previously) refusing to stand for God Bless America as a form of opposition to the war in Iraq. Both athletes are making a political statement, but only one (Schilling) seems to have taken heat for it from the media and the fans. Could it be that some people only support freedom of speech when they agree with what the speaker has to say?

I'm not trying to make this into a political matter, but I think it's interesting to see how different Schilling and Delgado have been treated, even though what they have done (use their fame as a way to express their ideas) is very similar, albeit from different sides of the political spectrum.

From my experiences, I'd say the exact opposite of you. I've never heard anyone say anything about Schilling because of his political support, but I have heard a lot of flak about Delgado not standing. It was a fairly big issue recently after he was traded to the Mets. I believe our friends here in the Mets forum had some discussion about it.

[Sean Casey]

From my experiences, I'd say the exact opposite of you. I've never heard anyone say anything about Schilling because of his political support, but I have heard a lot of flak about Delgado not standing. It was a fairly big issue recently after he was traded to the Mets. I believe our friends here in the Mets forum had some discussion about it.

Based on what I've heard from various forums that a lot of Red Sox fans are disgruntled over Schilling's remarks during the campaign. It shouldn't be too surprising, since New England is very heavily populated with democrats, but I don't think that I have read or heard much from baseball fans or the media that criticizes Delgado. Note how Delgado was not one of the players mentioned in the article you posted.

[DoubleX]

Based on what I've heard from various forums that a lot of Red Sox fans are disgruntled over Schilling's remarks during the campaign. It shouldn't be too surprising, since New England is very heavily populated with democrats, but I don't think that I have read or heard much from baseball fans or the media that criticizes Delgado. Note how Delgado was not one of the players mentioned in the article you posted.

I think you might be reading too much into the article I posted. There is not one line about Schilling's politics. The basic gist is the players don't like him because he runs his mouth. If Delgado ran his mouth, he'd probably be on there too. But the point is, the article is not based on politics, nor the fans perception of players, its based on players that come off as jerks to their fellow players - that's why guys like Barry Bonds and AJ Pierzynski are on it, and guys like Randy Johnson, Alex Rodriguez, and Jeff Kent got honorable mentions.

[DoubleX]

Based on what I've heard from various forums that a lot of Red Sox fans are disgruntled over Schilling's remarks during the campaign. It shouldn't be too surprising, since New England is very heavily populated with democrats, but I don't think that I have read or heard much from baseball fans or the media that criticizes Delgado. Note how Delgado was not one of the players mentioned in the article you posted.

Also, here is the link to the Mets thread discussing Delgado. (http://baseball-fever.com/forumdisplay.php?f=37&page=3&order=desc) There are five pages and 109 posts in that thread, yet I can't recall there ever extended being mention of Schilling's politics on these boards. I wouldn't be surprised if I looked back through the current events threads that I would a Delgado thread in there as well.

[Sean Casey]

I wouldn't be surprised if I looked back through the current events threads that I would a Delgado thread in there as well.

Actually, there was a thread about it a while ago, which I think I participated in. However, there were many people on the board who were very sympathetic to Delgado, while it seems like many people on this board don't like Schilling using his fame to voice his thoughts

[DoubleX]

Actually, there was a thread about it a while ago, which I think I participated in. However, there were many people on the board who were very sympathetic to Delgado, while it seems like many people on this board don't like Schilling using his fame to voice his thoughts

Again, there is a difference in voicing thoughts and voicing political thoughts. People have said that Schilling needs to shut up, but I don't recall any member ever saying it has to do with politics. Schilling says a lot of stuff, and most of it does not have to do with politics. So just because people say Schilling needs to shut up, does not mean people are saying he needs to shut up because of his politics. I for one, think Schilling needs to shut up, and it has nothing to do with his politics. I could care less about that. I just think he runs his mouth too much about baseball, and is always trying to play the angles.

See that's the difference between Delgado and Schilling. Delgado did one thing and it was related to politics, Schilling does a lot of thing and only a small part of it is related to politics, and people don't like Schilling because of all the stuff he says, not because of the political stuff. Essentially, politics is a non-factor here.

Anyway, the article that this thread is about is not about fans reactions to Schilling, but other players' reactions to Schilling. Fans opinions have nothing to do with this.

[RobertHConner]

What's so absurdly patriotic about the letter? I thought it was very good; the US had just been attacked, and I think his letter could only have helped the counrty in the wake of the tragedy.

I think most of this dislike of Schilling stems from his support of George Bush in the 2004 presidential campaign. However, what I would like to know is why there was little criticism of Carlos Delgado for (previously) refusing to stand for God Bless America as a form of opposition to the war in Iraq. Both athletes are making a political statement, but only one (Schilling) seems to have taken heat for it from the media and the fans. Could it be that some people only support freedom of speech when they agree with what the speaker has to say?

I'm not trying to make this into a political matter, but I think it's interesting to see how different Schilling and Delgado have been treated, even though what they have done (use their fame as a way to express their ideas) is very similar, albeit from different sides of the political spectrum.

Schilling is and always has been a self-glorifying, attention seeking jackass. He was that way in Houston, Philly, AZ, Boston & Pawtuckett. I don't know about Baltimore. He's a formerly great big game pitcher. I've wanted him to win when he faced NY in 2001 & I pull for him as long as he pitches for the Sox. I fault him greatly for not bothering to take better care of his waistline while he was healing in the off-season. It hurt the team much more than Manny wanting a`day off in Tampa. I hope he wins in '06 while also being struck mute for the duration of the season. I'm a Giants fan first, Sox second. I hold im & Jeff Kent in the same regard. I didn't need GQ to shine a light on the complete jackassery of either man. Delgado isn't an American & wasn't playing for an American franchise. Would anyone be pissed if Tim Wakefield made public comments about the Dominican govt.- I doubt it. Schilling was a raging loudmouth long before Bush was in office.

[YOUgodofwalks]

Schilling is the reason most athletes give cliched responses

When someone like Curt actually is honest and says what he is thinking, he gets major flak

Schill can take it, but alot of players would rather just play ball, so if you don't like Schilling, don't ever say "why do players all say the same crap?"

They say it, because you fans are finger pointing jerks waiting to jump on someone

I'm not calling anyone a finger pointing jerk, but I essentially agree. Most players give the canned media statements just to avoid controversy. Can I get a simple staight honest opinion? Not from most players.

Schilling talks too much yes i will agree on that. But i know when he spoke out about Questec i gave him a cheer, and he wasn't even in Red Sox uniform at that point. I also liked when he smashed it to be honest, I thought it was quite funny.

[MudvilleMike]

I'll always condider Schilling one of the greatest heros in Red Sox history. I have no interest in his political views or his "grandstanding." He is simply a great champion.

[Blowfly]

I am glad someone else brought up the questec episode. That is just another example of Schilling being Schilling; making noise about something in a self serving manner. I believe all he was trying to accomplish there was to get the umpires on his side by coming out against something that “measured” the accuracy of the umpires and questioned the competency of the umpires. Do I respect his ability as I player? Absolutely, do I like how he uses his position to glorify his opinions and beliefs? No way, how ever I am glad that he contributed greatly to the Sox World Series victory and that is hard to beat.

[DoubleX]

I am glad someone else brought up the questec episode. That is just another example of Schilling being Schilling; making noise about something in a self serving manner. I believe all he was trying to accomplish there was to get the umpires on his side by coming out against something that “measured” the accuracy of the umpires and questioned the competency of the umpires. Do I respect his ability as I player? Absolutely, do I like how he uses his position to glorify his opinions and beliefs? No way, how ever I am glad that he contributed greatly to the Sox World Series victory and that is hard to beat.

You know, I never thought of the Questec thing that way. But I suppose if what people say about Schilling is true (that what he says and does is calculated to enhance his own stature), then those statements could certainly be seen as an attempt to curry favor with the umps.

[tmorss9]

Ill just say this about the sock. If you watch footage (pardon the pun) of him warming up before game 6 of the ALCS, you can DEFINATELY see the blood on his sock. I saw it during the pregame show, and I'm sure that if I saw it, the people in the production truck did too, and thats why they kept showing it. as far as why it didn't keep spreading, it probably clotted (onto the sock, even) to the extent that it just stopped bleeding, much like the way a cut stops bleeding under a bandage.

[CuriousBoston]

Based on what I've heard from various forums that a lot of Red Sox fans are disgruntled over Schilling's remarks during the campaign. It shouldn't be too surprising, since New England is very heavily populated with democrats, but I don't think that I have read or heard much from baseball fans or the media that criticizes Delgado. Note how Delgado was not one of the players mentioned in the article you posted.

It's possible that a lot of Boston area fans didn't. I don't have cable, so I miss a lot of stuff. Of course, BF is my primary source:D