Bonds Will Not Compete In WBC

[nyboricua021]

"When my name was first announced for the WBC, my gut reaction was that I wanted to play. After much thought and discussion with my family I have decided to remove myself from the upcoming World Baseball Classic roster," Bonds wrote on his Web site, www.barrybonds.com.

"After the announcement I received a lot of criticism as well as concern from fans and my family and friends. The obvious objections were about my health and whether or not I would be ready to play," Bonds said. "In the end, I decided that I can't take any chances that might jeopardize my season."

I agree with him, I understand the pride that you have for your country, but you don't want to get injured and be out for a long period of time.

[runningshoes]

Pedro Martinez gave himself a clean bill of health Monday, stating he will pitch for the Dominican Republic in the World Baseball Classic beginning March 3. "I am recovering very well, the foot is going well, and I have my mind on the World Baseball Classic.

Talk about a stark contrast.

[west coast orange and black]

stark contrast, indeed.

the injuries are very different. one has been treated many many times with success while the other is unique.

one was suffered by a man barely over 30 while the other by a player over 40, perhaps in his final season.

[west coast orange and black]

welcome to bb-f and to the giants forum, by the way, nyboricua021. :waving

[Honus Wagner Rules]

"When my name was first announced for the WBC, my gut reaction was that I wanted to play. After much thought and discussion with my family I have decided to remove myself from the upcoming World Baseball Classic roster," Bonds wrote on his Web site, www.barrybonds.com.

"After the announcement I received a lot of criticism as well as concern from fans and my family and friends. The obvious objections were about my health and whether or not I would be ready to play," Bonds said. "In the end, I decided that I can't take any chances that might jeopardize my season."

I agree with him, I understand the pride that you have for your country, but you don't want to get injured and be out for a long period of time.
OK, but using Bond's logic he shouldn't play any spring training games either because he might get hurt. How is playing in the WBC any different than playing spring training games in terms of chances of getting hurt? He was going to be the DH for Team USA so he wouldn't have had to play the field.

I'm very disappointed in Bonds.

[west coast orange and black]

for bonds to earnestly and honestly compete for the usa in the world classic he would have had to speed up his training a bit. the classic begins about 10 days before the start of cactus league play. he would be going at full tilt once play began, baserunning included. evidently, he at first figured that he could do so without any problems.

cactus league ball is very different than that of the regular season, and i expect that it will be markedly different than world classic play. during the first couple'a weeks of march ball, the youngsters get the majority of the playing time, players don't slide hard into second, and the vets simply do not run as hard. also, a player can get lifted once reach base safely and be re-inserted back into the game, effectively becoming a designated hitter. there is a kind of subtle casualness in the air, and many veteran players are not going full-tilt.

bonds, specifically, historically does not play in most early march games. around mid-month he starts to play more games and appears in them longer than 3 or 4 innings.

i am disappointed that bonds is not leading our guys into the world classic. but consider bonds getting hurt and not being available 'til the hated dodgers roll into town on 19 may. bad enough, right. but maybe a bit worse if he was injured while sliding hard into second to break up a ground ball that enabled the winning run to score against venezuela, while in a game against the white sox he simply stops and gets tagged out.

bonds says that he feels great, but his knee injury is a unique situation, one without historical reference. let's say that an injury during early march wipes out his 2006 season.

maybe bonds would rather end play while in a giants uni than in any other.

[Nomtoc]

Good! Babo's steroid gimp excuse of a player will not mess up the semi and finals for me down in San Diego!
:coffee

[Atlanta Braves Freak]

I don't think Barry Bonds can say anything without him being criticized about it. I know some of the fans are disappointed, but you can't get in the way of his recuperation. The man wants to recuperate and be ready for the real baseball season and I don't blame him.

[west coast orange and black]

well put, nomtoc. welcome to our corner.

[Nomtoc]

well put, nomtoc. welcome to our corner.


Thanks!

Maybe we need a WBC "party" thread for those of us making the trip to San Diego for the semis and the finals!

[west coast orange and black]

knock yerself out.

seems as if international forum is always needing new relevant material.
or maybe current events.

[Sultan_1895-1948]

West Coast, you don't find it odd that he pulled out right after the announcement of an Olympic style testing policy. Meaning, they will be testing for HGH. Seems pretty "coincidental."

If you strongly support Bonds, it might be easy to pass this off and take it for what it is. This however imo, is just another in the long line of "coincidental" things that Bonds wants us to buy into. He's counting on people buying his BS. His size is coincidence, his numbers are coincidence, his surly, bitter, guilty attitude is coincidence, his long knee recovery was just coincidence, his relationship with Balco is coincidence, ex-mistress has an axe to grind and can't be believed; ok whatever, Sheffield can't be believed; ok whatever, and now this. What's up with that.

[KHenry14]

West Coast, you don't find it odd that he pulled out right after the announcement of an Olympic style testing policy. Meaning, they will be testing for HGH. Seems pretty "coincidental."

.

You know, I knew about the Olympic Style testing weeks ago, are you sure that no one knew about that until recently? It seems that Barry and his people would have been aware of that possibility at the time he was originally announced, so if I'm right, his withdrawal now wouldn't be because of the testing as he'd have known about that from the start.

BTW, if all of what you say is true, why would Barry think that anybody would believe him. I mean, he could tell you the sky was blue Sultan, and I doubt you'd believe him. So why bother explaining anything? Unless, perhaps he was telling the truth?

KH14

[west coast orange and black]

the public knew as far back as july 2005 that wada testing would be used during classic play, sultan.
bonds' statement that he would not participate in the wbc occurred 6 months later.

what is this "coincidental" thing you're talking about?

[Dravecky43]

West Coast, you don't find it odd that he pulled out right after the announcement of an Olympic style testing policy. Meaning, they will be testing for HGH. Seems pretty "coincidental."
I believe the WADA testing of players named on rosters actually started a few weeks ago. If he's already been tested (which there is a good chance of) why would he pull out to avoid the testing?

[west coast orange and black]

17 january was the roster deadline.
it was also the first possible date that out-of-competition testing of the wbc players could begin.

[runningshoes]

Mr. Bonds should make the results of any testing he had done public and shut us all up once and for all. ;)

[west coast orange and black]

17 january was the roster deadline.
it was also the first possible date that out-of-competition testing of the wbc players could begin.

world classic officials, though, issued a standard "no comment" when asked if any players on the united states roster had already been tested as of the date that bonds announced that he would not participate.

curiously, a first positive result during world classic testing results in that player unable to participate in international competition for two years... with the protection of no names released to the public.

so... did bonds test positive and is that why he bowed out?

even if bonds was tested on the 17th, his announcement occurred on the 23rd - which is not enough time to procure a test result.

[west coast orange and black]

bonds has on several occasions told the public that he got tested.
under wbc rules, i believe, players are prohibited from making statements before wbc officials publicly comment.

[runningshoes]

even if bonds was tested on the 17th, his announcement occurred on the 23rd - which is not enough time to procure a test result.

How long for the results?

[Nomtoc]

Who cares about Babo in the first place? Oh yeah, that's what this thread is about... Uh... the guy was born with a silver bat in his mouth and corked it.

Now, who's going to the semi's and final's in Sand Diego besides me?

[Sultan_1895-1948]

Perhaps the latest HGH masking agent didn't come through with expected results. Resulting in him backing out. Who knows. Everything about Bonds is "fishy" and he expects fans to buy his lame reasons, whether it's flaxeed oil, or wanting to stay healthy. He would have DH'd for all the games, and he already runs so gingerly that he couldn't have been hurt. Nobody expects him to score from first on a double, or even go first to third on a base hit to a fielders left or right. He routinely insults everyone's intelligence with his act, and some still buy in, which is why he continues the charade.

[west coast orange and black]

#20:

the short answer is “one day.” however, the length of time for a drug screening to be properly administered -- from start to finish -- is about 2-3 weeks, and even longer should the screening produce a positive result.

consider:
contacting the player, arranging the sample appointment;
obtaining samples - done under strict chain of custody to insure confidentiality and anonymity;
paperwork/documentation (and time);
shipping of the samples to a wada-accredited laboratory;
more paperwork/documentation (and more time);
an analysis of the acidity and concentration of the sample to ensure it is suitable for screening;
testing for acidity/alkalinity of the sample;
even more paperwork/documentation (and even more time);
specific gravity testing;

(if acidity/alkalinity levels or the specific gravity test fall outside the acceptable levels, a second sample from the player is required. this is because a test result that falls outside the acceptable range is considered to be at risk of testing positive.
the purpose of testing is not to catch any individual athlete, but to keep the playing field level.
for this reason, individual athletes receive the benefit of the doubt, even though additional time passes and additional money is spent.)

the samples are tested;
more paperwork/documentation (and more time);
test results are found;
more paperwork, etc;
the athlete is notified of test results;
athlete and representation sign off on sample result forms.

what i am getting at is that the proper, strict chain of custody involves much more time than does the actual testing of the athlete’s sample.

more stuff happens when a positive result occurs (review, possible hearing, ruling, appeal, ruling) but that is another matter.

[west coast orange and black]

#22:

sultan, you have stated that bonds need not worrry of the advances of the testers. your claim has been that bonds has had the money and resources and the inside information to always stay at least one step ahead of the tests.
you seem now to have changed your tune, as you have done several times before.

the baseball classic is a world-stage event. i would think that all players would want to be -- and would be expected to be -- at the top of their game for it. not having to take the field would be a plus for a less-than top-notch bonds, but dh-ing and running the bases is serious business. it seems reasonable that if bonds believes that he could not get to his accustomed regular season playing shape by the start of the classic, he would be putting himself at risk by playing.

“Nobody expects him to score from first on a double, or even go first to third on a base hit to a fielders left or right,” you say. um, ok, let’s say that that is true in spring training games, particularly th earlier ones.

but in wbc play, wouldn’t you expect bonds to take out the opposing shortstop to break up a would-be inning-ending double-play that would score the go-ahead run? i would.

most importantly, i think that bonds would, too.

[Sultan_1895-1948]

#22:

sultan, you have stated that bonds need not worrry of the advances of the testers. your claim has been that bonds has had the money and resources and the inside information to always stay at least one step ahead of the tests.
you seem now to have changed your tune, as you have done several times before.


No tune has changed. Bonds has never had to worry about HGH before because baseball cannot test for it. His connections might have told him they are working on something to mask, and when it was a failure he backed out. Anything is possible with that chump.



but in wbc play, wouldn’t you expect bonds to take out the opposing shortstop to break up a would-be inning-ending double-play that would score the go-ahead run? i would.

most importantly, i think that bonds would, too.

I wouldn't expect Bonds to do anything except stand up there and let strikes on the outside corner be called for balls. I wouldn't expect anything from him except putting on body armor, crowding the plate, choking up on his little league weighted bat made of rock hard wood, and turn on a couple of pitches. That's all. No more, no less. Bonds hasn't shown the desire to put forth 100% effort in the last 5 years. He trots from here to there, he runs gingerly on the bases and in the field, he showboats his way around everywhere. He never hustles. He's a bum.

[west coast orange and black]

"His connections might have told him they are working on something to mask" = your conspiracy theory continues.

you believing that bonds' play consists entirely of turning on a couple of pitches, then trotting and not hustling is proof that you have not watched him, or that you choose not to believe your own eyes when you have.

i have read a lot of pretty decent stuff from you, sultan, especially about the great babe ruth.
here, though, about bonds, you seem to have talked yourself into something that is disputed by facts.

[west coast orange and black]

at times i have wondered what it would be like to post matter-of-factly only to include the caveat "who knows."

[west coast orange and black]

"I wouldn't expect anything from him except putting on body armor, crowding the plate, choking up on his little league weighted bat made of rock hard wood, and turn on a couple of pitches. That's all. No more, no less."

bonds wears an oversized guard on his elbow, yes. he took a few direct hits a while back that cost him ample playing time;

bonds, at 40, has been hit 93 times in his career, 37 of those coming in his last 4 full seasons. i'd say that he at times pays a heavy price for crowding the plate;

maple is more dense than ash, and maple bats are touted as having larger sweet spots than ash bats. but according to louisville slugger, 60% of all current mlb players use their ash bats, which, on average, weigh just 31 ounces. who else are you gonna pop off on for not using a 42-ounce bat?;

less than one-third of all of bonds' home runs hit at home since 2000 have been pull jobs:
2005: 1/2
'04: 8/26
'03: 5/23
'02: 7/19
'01: 15/37
'00: 10/25

that's not the work of a guy who simply turns on a couple of pitches.

[west coast orange and black]

runningshoes, recently in current events / things that bother me / #17 you stated (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=38921) to wait 'til next year:

"If you're going to hang around here, you'll find out quickly that we're not a bunch of whiners and when we have something to complain about, we try to do it with a little dignity."

also, about an hour before you posted in this thread you gave this reply: current events / things that bother me in baseball / #30: "There's no need for that garbage.
If you want to talk like that, go join the Neanderthals at AOL."

taken to heart, why then condone tonystarks' very ugly #23, in which he divulges his dream of seeing barry bonds being intentionally hit and has his career ended during international play?

there is no room in baseball for such action.

please stick to above-board baseball, you guys. and when disagreeing, please do so "with a little dignity."

[wogdoggy]

West Coast were you hired by bonds to dispute everything negative about this cheating arrogant slob? Remember 100,000,000 flies cant be wrong.BTW hows my grammar, spelling and punctuation?:crazy

[west coast orange and black]

^^ please stick to above-board baseball. and when disagreeing, please do so "with a little dignity."

[KHenry14]

Bonds hasn't shown the desire to put forth 100% effort in the last 5 years. He trots from here to there, he runs gingerly on the bases and in the field, he showboats his way around everywhere. He never hustles. He's a bum.

Anybody who says something like this hasn't watched Barry play at all. Sultan, why do you bother commenting when you clearly let your emotions get in the way of reality. We know you don't like the guy, and you know what, it's OK if you don't like the guy. We don't care, nor does Barry care if you like him or not. But your tendancy to just make things up about him ruins your credibility.

KH14

[Sultan_1895-1948]

Anybody who says something like this hasn't watched Barry play at all. Sultan, why do you bother commenting when you clearly let your emotions get in the way of reality. We know you don't like the guy, and you know what, it's OK if you don't like the guy. We don't care, nor does Barry care if you like him or not. But your tendancy to just make things up about him ruins your credibility.

KH14

I have watched Barry quite a bit, and that is what I see. I have an idea of how the game should be played, especially at that level, and he goes about it the wrong way IMO. Barry does not care, and I do not care that he does not care. He manipulates educated people into buying his BS; which is bothersome. But so be it; who's view is more clouded?

[KHenry14]

See Sultan, what you are saying is your opinion, and you are entitled to it. But the facts say you are wrong. He's played for three excellent managers in Leyland, Baker, and Alou, and none of them complained about the way he plays. And let me tell you, if Felipe thought Barry was jaking it, or lazy, or in some way a loafer, he's call him out. Felipe bows down for no one, and that includes Barry. And for that matter his teammates don't complain about his play either, save Kent who seems to have teammate problems follow him around. And for that matter, you don't hear criticism of his play from other big leaguers either. Mostly you hear the word "awe".

And how has a man whom I've never met manipulated me? Perhaps you are the one with perception problems.

KH14

[DoubleX]

My 2 cents....

Thank God that Bonds won't show up.
Who wants to see him walk anyways.

But this does ruin my dream...where the US is playing the Dominicans and Colon drills him 'by accident' in the temple and ends his Baseball career before he can surpass Ruth and Aaron.

Tony, you should be careful what you say about Bonds in the Giants forum. It's one thing to say those kind of comments in the current events forum (though I'm not endorsing that either), but now you've come into the lion's den and it's like you're poking the lion with a stick.

[west coast orange and black]

more on #27

your claim has long been that bonds has had the means - money, scientists, inside information - to easily sidestep or skate past drug testing. your claim is that bonds has never had to worry about testing positive.
you did not limit your claims to mlb rules.

now you claim that maybe bonds' "connections" didn't come through with a practiceable masking agent for hgh.

it is impossible to mask abnormally high levels of hgh, sultan. masking is a fool's errand. to avoid a positive finding for an abnormally high hgh level, the level itself must somehow be reasonably explained.

you still erroneously maintain that human growth hormone is a fountain of youth for healthy athletes, despite the fact that hgh, without companion steroid use, provides gains that are best described as very small, practically insignificant.

hgh use without accompanying steroid use can be likened to taking an aspirin to feel better despite not even feeling a headache in the first place.

you have done superb researching and relate with so much passion and informative detail the life and accomplishments of babe ruth. but when vilifying bonds you seem to not rely on fact as much as your emotions.

recently you relied on the findings of the life extension institute in palm springs to bolster your claims of an hgh fountain of youth. it's simply not there, sultan.

[Sultan_1895-1948]

See Sultan, what you are saying is your opinion, and you are entitled to it. But the facts say you are wrong.

And how has a man whom I've never met manipulated me? Perhaps you are the one with perception problems.

KH14

No facts say anything. You see one thing, I see another. Can you honestly sit there and say that Bonds is an all out hustler type of player? Seriously. Now, that doesn't mean he isn't great, but it is what it is.

Bonds puts spin on everything, calculates his comments carefully, stages press conferences with his son (and tells ESPN to make sure they get him in the shot)...everything he does is manipulative. If you're a huge fan of his, of course you're gonna buy into the bs, but if you step back and rationalize everything, something is definately rotten in Denmark (of SF).

[Sultan_1895-1948]

more on #27

your claim has long been that bonds has had the means - money, scientists, inside information - to easily sidestep or skate past drug testing. your claim is that bonds has never had to worry about testing positive.
you did not limit your claims to mlb rules.

now you claim that maybe bonds' "connections" didn't come through with a practiceable masking agent for hgh.

it is impossible to mask abnormally high levels of hgh, sultan. masking is a fool's errand. to avoid a positive finding for an abnormally high hgh level, the level itself must somehow be reasonably explained.

you still erroneously maintain that human growth hormone is a fountain of youth for healthy athletes, despite the fact that hgh, without companion steroid use, provides gains that are best described as very small, practically insignificant.

hgh use without accompanying steroid use can be likened to taking an aspirin to feel better despite not even feeling a headache in the first place.

you have done superb researching and relate with so much passion and informative detail the life and accomplishments of babe ruth. but when vilifying bonds you seem to not rely on fact as much as your emotions.

recently you relied on the findings of the life extension institute in palm springs to bolster your claims of an hgh fountain of youth. it's simply not there, sultan.

First off, there has never been a test for HGH in the majors, so he never had to worry about it before. Now though, with the Olympic style testing in the WBC, it became an issue. It's possible that he was relying on his resources to come up with something and it fell through. Why is that so hard for you to even consider. Is everything rosey in Bonds-land for you?

Posting pictures of a bunch of fogies doesn't say anything about HGH. I've said before that the best benefits of HGH go hand in hand with taking other forms of steroids. Having said that, the benefits of just HGH are not as minimal as you think.



"Researchers studied the normal levels of HGH patterns in adults. At age 21, the normal level of HGH is approximately 10 milligrams per deciliter of blood. After age 30, the secretion rate drops by 14 percent, every 10 years. By the age of 61, the human growth hormone is diminished by 80 percent, down to 2 milligrams. Over the age of 75, the body barely produces enough HGH to build a toenail. The decreased level of human growth hormone is the primary reason for stunted healing in elderly individuals."

HGH secretion reaches its peak in the body during adolescence. This makes sense because bioidentical hormones helps stimulate our body to grow. But, growth hormones secretion does not stop after adolescence. Our body continue to produce growth hormones usually in short bursts during deep sleep. As we get older our body produces less amounts of growth hormone. Human Growth Agent is designed to help your body naturally increase it's own levels of HGH. Increased levels of growth hormones can assist in weightloss and muscle gain. HGH can also increase your energy level and may assist sexual performance and endurance.

Human Growth Hormone is known to be critical for tissue repair, muscle growth, healing, brain function, physical and mental health, bone strength, energy and metabolism. In short, it is very important to just about every aspect of our life!

Dr. Ronald Klatz, world renowned expert on anti-aging, founder and president of the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine: "By replenishing your supply of growth hormone, you can recover your vigor, health, looks and sexuality. For the first time in human history, we can intervene in the aging process, restore many aspects of youth, resist disease, substantially improve the quality of life, perhaps extend the life span itself. The 'Fountain of Youth' lies within the cells of each of us. All you need to do is release it."

Daniel Rudman, M.D., New England Journal of Medice: "The effects of six months of human growth hormone on lean body mass and adipose-tissue were equivalent in magnitude to the changes incurred during 10-20 years of aging."

[KHenry14]

No facts say anything. You see one thing, I see another. Can you honestly sit there and say that Bonds is an all out hustler type of player? Seriously. Now, that doesn't mean he isn't great, but it is what it is.

Bonds puts spin on everything, calculates his comments carefully, stages press conferences with his son (and tells ESPN to make sure they get him in the shot)...everything he does is manipulative. If you're a huge fan of his, of course you're gonna buy into the bs, but if you step back and rationalize everything, something is definately rotten in Denmark (of SF).

I didn't claim that he was a all-out hustle guy like some type of Pete Rose clone. Ask yourself this, what power hitter is? Thome? Nah. Pujols? He plays hard, but he's not crazy about it. Neither is A-Rod, Konerko, Vlad, or any other power guy. That's just not their game. But that doesn't mean they don't play hard, or play to win. Barry's no different. He's not the player he was in 1990 and he doesn't play like that anymore. You called him out as lazy, funny how none of his managers or teammates feel that way.

And Barry is no different that any other major star in any sport in trying to manipulate the media. Michael Jordan is of course the king of media manipulation, and Tiger Woods isn't far behind. Barry just isn't as good at it. But if you think that I'm somehow duped by him, you are just flat out wrong. I see the Barry in toto, warts and all. And I make no apologies for some of the things he says. He deserves some of the criticisms he gets because of some of the things he says. But he hasn't fooled me. Perhaps you are the one who's been fooled Sultan. You seem to have believed some things that just aren't true.

All I have to say is I challenge you to watch a lot more Giants games this year and judge for yourself. You aren't going to see what you are alleging here.

KH14

[Mattingly]

My 2 cents....

Thank God that Bonds won't show up.
Who wants to see him walk anyways.

But this does ruin my dream...where the US is playing the Dominicans and Colon drills him 'by accident' in the temple and ends his Baseball career before he can surpass Ruth and Aaron.
Tony, need I remind you that it's definitely not in good form to wish harm upon a baseball player, even if you personally dislike him? If you hope that he never breaks Ruth's then Aaron's records, so be it. I personally may agree with you, but I wouldn't really be parading that viewpoint here in the Giants' forum. I'd at least have some dignity about how I'd voiced this.
That's just so cruel.

I like it. :clapping
Please read my comment to Tony. Sad thing is that you're both regulars to me, so I don't see any reason why these things have to be even stated. Both on your parts, as well as the resulting need for my statements.

Please be discreet in your words in the future, please.

Thanks. :)

-Matt

[Sultan_1895-1948]

Request granted.

It has nothing to do with "hate." It has to do with "love" for the game and it's history.

Giantsalltheway, he has worked hard to get back. Rehab is torture mentally and physically. I wouldn't wish it on anyone, especially at his age, but he does have more incentive than your average Joe, and he's has substances which help him with "recovery." Whether they are the ones you will deny or not, in this day and age of technology and knowlege there are substances out there. Substances that prior generations never enjoyed.

So I end with an apology to Mr. Burgess. If anyone, I figured you would've seen the half tongue in cheek aspect to the original comment. In any case. I step out of the lion's den for now. It's no use anyhow. Although I enjoy arguing in circles with West Coast :D

[Dravecky43]

Mattingly,

It wouldn't be so bad if one "got away" and happened to strike Mr. Bonds in an area not protected by robocop material, rendering him inable to continue his assault on the purities and integrity of the game. As Americans we have the freedom to say it "wouldn't be so bad."
Yes, you have the freedom to say that. But it's just bad form to wish that kind of harm on ANYONE, no matter how much you dislike them. I mean, I don't like you at all :D, but I sure hope you don't get forced to retirement because of a horrible injury.

And on the "lazy" thing, maybe you should look at how hard he worked to get back on the field last year. After three knee surgeries almost anyone would be too demoralized to do much. He made it back to the bigs and is expected to be healthy for the start of 2006, though. I call that an extremely hard worker.

[Bill Burgess]

My 2 cents....

Thank God that Bonds won't show up.
Who wants to see him walk anyways.

But this does ruin my dream...where the US is playing the Dominicans and Colon drills him 'by accident' in the temple and ends his Baseball career before he can surpass Ruth and Aaron.
Mattingly,

It wouldn't be so bad if one "got away" and happened to strike Mr. Bonds in an area not protected by robocop material, rendering him inable to continue his assault on the purities and integrity of the game. As Americans we have the freedom to say it "wouldn't be so bad."



Barry Bonds is still my favorite active player. It pains me that he cheated. But where do you guys come off with this level of hate speech. Fever rules prohibit it, and I cannot fathom why Tony/Mattingly didn't delete it instantly.

This is unacceptable, my brothers.

TonyStarks: If you do not delete it now, I will tomorrow.

And Randy: I'm stunned that a man so infused with love with Babe, could sink to this. Just stunned. Please do the right thing. You know what that is.

I am so truly disappointed with this pure hate spectacle, my brothers. This is just not acceptable.

Bill Burgess

[Mattingly]

Mattingly,

It wouldn't be so bad if one "got away" and happened to strike Mr. Bonds in an area not protected by robocop material, rendering him inable to continue his assault on the purities and integrity of the game. As Americans we have the freedom to say it "wouldn't be so bad."
Since this has been quoted several times, I'll presume it's true. While I am certainly not a fan of Barry Bonds' use of armor, nor am I a fan of his supposed (yet still unproven) use of PEDs, such as HGH and other "designer PEDs", I am most importantly a proponent of the sanctity of human life, including those of baseball players.

Please do not under any circumstances make any statements to this affect anywhere on this forum. Not in the Giants forum, not under Current Events, not under any other part of BBF. If you continue this, then your account's status will be directly affected.

Please remember that. Despite the post's having been deleted, that doesn't undo the fact that it was said in the first place. Please don't repeat this! :(

-Matt

[runningshoes]

runningshoes, recently in current events / things that bother me / #17 you stated (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=38921) to wait 'til next year:

"If you're going to hang around here, you'll find out quickly that we're not a bunch of whiners and when we have something to complain about, we try to do it with a little dignity."

also, about an hour before you posted in this thread you gave this reply: current events / things that bother me in baseball / #30: "There's no need for that garbage.
If you want to talk like that, go join the Neanderthals at AOL."

taken to heart, why then condone tonystarks' very ugly #23, in which he divulges his dream of seeing barry bonds being intentionally hit and has his career ended during international play?

there is no room in baseball for such action.

please stick to above-board baseball, you guys. and when disagreeing, please do so "with a little dignity."

The difference being, I was kidding; the fellow in the other thread chastised a friend and fellow member. If you knew anything about me from my posts, Tony, then you would have know I was kidding. I'm known on this board as a bit of joker, but you would have to venture outside the Giants forum a little more often to know anything about me or other members.

Would I like to see Bonds fail miserably and retire before he takes the record away from an honest, decent man?

Of course I would, but I would never seriously wish any harm to him.

The next time you suggest publicly that I would seriously wish an injury any human being, let alone a ball player, or question my integrity, please contact me first to straighten it out.

I've contributed way to much to this forum to have to put up with this from you.

We could have handled this messaging each other in private. If you had told me it was in bad taste, I would have agreed with you and apologized in this thread; instead, you chose this route.

I don't smile and look the other way when I've been wronged.

[Mattingly]

As mentioned, rs53, I think that yourself and wcoab should handle this privately via PM.

Thanks.

Sooner or later, we'll eventually get back to the main topic of Barry Bonds not competing in the WBC.

[runningshoes]

As mentioned, rs53, I think that yourself and wcoab should handle this privately via PM.

Thanks.

Sooner or later, we'll eventually get back to the main topic of Barry Bonds not competing in the WBC.

That's all I plan on stating on the matter, and I agree; This should have been handled differently. Unfortunately, I didn't get that opportunity, Matt.

[Mattingly]

That's all I plan on stating on the matter, and I agree; This should have been handled differently. Unfortunately, I didn't get that opportunity, Matt.
No problem. Just trying to maintain order here.

I've already voiced my support for you two settling what may be a misunderstanding, so hopefully, all will go well.

You two both know how to reach me privately, so take care of things separately.

Thanks. :)

[Nomtoc]

runningshoes, recently in current events / things that bother me / #17 you stated (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=38921) to wait 'til next year:

"If you're going to hang around here, you'll find out quickly that we're not a bunch of whiners and when we have something to complain about, we try to do it with a little dignity."

also, about an hour before you posted in this thread you gave this reply: current events / things that bother me in baseball / #30: "There's no need for that garbage.
If you want to talk like that, go join the Neanderthals at AOL."

taken to heart, why then condone tonystarks' very ugly #23, in which he divulges his dream of seeing barry bonds being intentionally hit and has his career ended during international play?

there is no room in baseball for such action.

please stick to above-board baseball, you guys. and when disagreeing, please do so "with a little dignity."


OMG! I JUST now had to respond to that same dude, in that same thread about the sensetivity and misunderstanding of that very same thing but I had no idea at the time he was also being hyopocritical. Guess I somehow missed that during my review over the thread prior to responding to him.

Thanks for the enlightenment!

:clapping

[runningshoes]

OMG! I JUST now had to respond to that same dude, in that same thread about the sensetivity and misunderstanding of that very same thing but I had no idea at the time he was also being hyopocritical. Guess I somehow missed that during my review over the thread prior to responding to him.

Thanks for the enlightenment!

:clapping

Guess what..you're the one I'm refering to in the post you just quoted, so I wouldn't go throwing stones around.

[Nomtoc]

Guess what..you're the one I'm refering to in the post you just quoted, so I wouldn't go throwing stones around.

Earth to dude; I know that!

PM me with any further attempt you care to make.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

No facts say anything. You see one thing, I see another. Can you honestly sit there and say that Bonds is an all out hustler type of player? Seriously. Now, that doesn't mean he isn't great, but it is what it is.
Actually yes I can. I remember a play in Wrigley about three years ago when there was a short pop up along the left field wall. Bonds was playing way off of the line. He came charging in dove for ball and smashed his face up against the brick wall. He was a bit dizzy for a few seconds and he stayed in game. He had a gash on his face for a while.



Bonds puts spin on everything, calculates his comments carefully, stages press conferences with his son (and tells ESPN to make sure they get him in the shot)...everything he does is manipulative. If you're a huge fan of his, of course you're gonna buy into the bs, but if you step back and rationalize everything, something is definately rotten in Denmark (of SF).

Bonds is a jerk, Sultan. No one denies that. Many great players were jerks, Hornsby, Cobb, Ruth, Lefty Grove, DiMaggio, Dick Allen, shoot even Mays is known to be surly at autograph sessions. As a Bonds fan I don't really care about his personality. Baseball is basically entertainment and on the ballfield Bonds is entertaining. Why do people care if ballplayers are jerks? I sure don't. Why should we care if actors, rock stars, playwrights, writers, artists, painters are nice or jerks? We appriciate them for their unique gifts. All these people are people just like us with issues and personality conflicts. That is just life. For us to try to hold ballplayers to higher standards is ridiculous because they will always disappoint us. I can't stand those fans who try to turn baseball into some mystical experience or turn ballplayers into mythic heros. Those guys need to get a life. It's baseball. It's just a game with a long and rich history. In the grand scheme of things baseball is not important at all.

If one doesn't like Bonds then that fine. That your opinion and you are entitiled to it. Then don't watch him play, or listen to his interviews.

[Nomtoc]

...If one doesn't like Bonds then that fine. That your opinion and you are entitiled to it. Then don't watch him play, or listen to his interviews.


Like the one where he was near tears and said he'd leave the game. Finally giving light to getting back the integrity of the game and then of course he changes his mind.

Babababo, babababo, hey hey hey.......

:D :D :D :D :D

[Bill Burgess]

We human beings are a interesting lot. Each of us, like the best BB players, have our hero/jerk sides.

We have all done things which deserve great admiration, and other things which we'd wish no one would ever find out. No matter how selfless our best things were, we still have our dark sides, which have so little relation to the hero self.

Cobb/Ruth did beautiful things. Ty financed a hospital, college scholarship, and Babe visited kids in hospitals. Both helped many players by tutoring them in their game. Both were wonderful men who also did terrible things. Which goes to show that even the best people sometimes commit terrible mistakes.

We here would do well to remember that we all say some dumb stuff, and then can articulate some gems. So if we can all hold our fire, keep our powder dry, and ask first, before we drop a nuke on some guys head.

Like in our cars, some courtesy/etiquette would go a long way to make our time here more pleasant.

Bill

[Nomtoc]

Well said.

Another example is Cy Young, he was huge racist.

[Sultan_1895-1948]

Bonds is a jerk, Sultan. No one denies that. Many great players were jerks, Hornsby, Cobb, Ruth, Lefty Grove, DiMaggio, Dick Allen, shoot even Mays is known to be surly at autograph sessions.

And how exactly was Babe a "jerk?" To compare him to Bonds is insulting, and shows either a lack of knowledge on your part, or displays your feeble attempt to grasp for something. That comparison is beyond apples and oranges.

I see your point though. Some do not care if players are jerks. They don't care if a player appreciates the fans or not. I get that. I've said before that I at least respect that Bonds is Bonds, and he is what he is. As opposed to a guy like Sosa who smiles for the cameras and pretends to be a fun loving Dominican where baseball has been "berry berry good to me."

[Honus Wagner Rules]

And how exactly was Babe a "jerk?" To compare him to Bonds is insulting, and shows either a lack of knowledge on your part, or displays your feeble attempt to grasp for something. That comparison is beyond apples and oranges.

I see your point though. Some do not care if players are jerks. They don't care if a player appreciates the fans or not. I get that. I've said before that I at least respect that Bonds is Bonds, and he is what he is. As opposed to a guy like Sosa who smiles for the cameras and pretends to be a fun loving Dominican where baseball has been "berry berry good to me."

Yes, Sultan in your eyes Ruth was "perfect". He never broke team rules and never went against the Red Sox and Yankees managment. He never was suspended my Landis for barnstorming even after he was told not to, right?

here are some examples:


In July 1918, Ruth ignored a sign from manager Ed Barrow during an at bat that led to a heated verbal spat when Ruth reached the dugout, and Barrow fined Ruth $500 when Ruth threatened to punch him in the nose. Ruth threw a tantrum and quit the team for a few days, and it was reported he had signed a new contract with the Chester Shipyards, a Pennsylvania-based pro team. It was also during the 1918 season that he started to refuse his pitching turns in the starting rotation, often citing injuries that Barrow would question.
So he threaten to beat up his manager and fake arm injuries.


There were also Ruth's off-the-field indiscretions. His late nights of partying and boozing were further sources of irritation to the franchise, and he had numerous fights with Barrow over curfew violations. Eventually Ruth was forced to write Barrow notes on what time he came in each night (notes Barrow never verified). He signed a 3-year contract in 1919 for $10,000 a year, but at the end of the 1919 season, he demanded $20,000 a year and threatened to sit out the 1920 season if he did not receive a new contract. Ruth was certainly worthy of the price, but he also needed more money to finance the large amount of money he spent on fast automobiles, fine clothes, and entertaining his many women "friends." Red Sox owner Harry Frazee commented, "If Ruth doesn't want to work for the Red Sox, we can work out an advantageous trade." To some people, Ruth had become an enfant terrible, although after his 1919 season, it seemed almost inconceivable that anyone would seriously recommend trading him.

So sitting out for a bigger contract is not a modern idea. :o


The 1921 World Series appearance would indirectly lead to problems for Ruth. Seeking to avoid diminishing the meaning of the fall classic, organized baseball instituted a rule in 1911 that prohibited World Series players from playing in exhibition games during the off-season. Ruth, typically, decided this rule did not apply to him, and even though Baseball Commissioner Kenesaw Mountain Landis had warned Ruth about the trip, Ruth went ahead and embarked on his usual lucrative barnstorming tour with two teammates. Landis came down hard on the recalcitrant players, and he suspended Ruth and teammate Bob Meusel for the first six weeks of what was to be a turbulent 1922 season for Ruth. When he returned to the Yankees on May 20, Yankee management named Ruth their first on-field captain, but just five days after his return, he was ejected for arguing an umpire's call at third, and exacerbated the situation by climbing into the seats to confront a heckling fan. The captaincy was stripped, and Ruth's temper would see him suspended three more times in 1922 for arguing with umpires.

So Ruth the Yankeess' captain for just five days? I can go and on about Ruth's behavior and how it detroyed Helen Ruth's life as well. But in the end it doesn't effect how one rate's Ruth as a player. I don't compare Ruth to Bonds or any other player. Different times, fifferent era, different game.

In one aspect Bonds has more respect for the game. He doesn't threaten mangagers or punch fans. When Jim Leyand had enough of Bond's crap back in 1991-92 he told Bond to shut his trap and play ball. Barry backed down because he had deep respect for his manager.

Ruth and Bonds, like all people, are flawed human beings. We all say and do thing that make us look like jerks. The only difference is that Ruth and Bonds showcased their "jerk" behavior in public.

[Bill Burgess]

Babe: Even the best made errors of judgment.

Babe is an example of an extremely good person who made some terrible errors of judgment. Outside of his crudeness/vulgarity, I have two things in my mind which marred Babe's otherwise wonderful character.

1. Babe seemed to have an insatiable appetite for ladies, married or otherwise. To bed a married women, who might have had kids, is a very serious moral transgression of selfishness, IMO.

2. Babe would never recognize team rules. No curfews, discipline. He defied managers Barrow, Huggins, McCarthy almost as a religion. The worst offense was with McCarthy. Since he was married by then, it wasn't curfews, like with Barrow/Huggins, but with constant sniping, undermining his manager. Especially to the press. He was the focus of an anti-McCarthy clique, and that was just inexcusable, IMO. To continuously tell the sports writers that McCarthy was a bush league amateur, and messed up his pitching options was an unacceptable betrayal of team morale/cohesion, and unprofessional behavior.

Babe was no saint, but his overall character was still a wonderful example of a man with a golden heart. But even the best men commit terrible mistakes.

Bill Burgess

[Sultan_1895-1948]

Yes, Sultan in your eyes Ruth was "perfect". He never broke team rules and never went against the Red Sox and Yankees management. He never was suspended my Landis for barnstorming even after he was told not to, right?

When have I ever said that Babe was perfect? Never. You used the term "jerk" which in my opinion is a pretty strong term and does not apply to Ruth. He made mistakes, and he sometimes did thoughtless cruel things. He had no malice in his heart though, and his childhood had a lot to do with his personality. Like a child he just "did" things. He didn't like to make plans, he liked to go by the moment.

Need I post everything good that he did. Need I remind you he received a clubhouse phone call from a stranger, and drove hours out to his house to visit his sick son. The hours upon hours of autograph signing, the loaning people money and never wanting to get paid back, paying strangers hospital bills, inviting children out on the golf course with him, the many acts he performed which we all would look on a sacrifices. To him they weren't. It was just him being him. He wasn't perfect, but he wasn't "jerk."

So he threaten to beat up his manager and fake arm injuries.

Barrow was a prick who never fully understood or appreciated Ruth for what he was. He was cruel by insisting that he pitch and play the field everyday. That workload would be too much for any human. Ruth didn't "fake" any arm injuries, so you can put that falsehood back in your pocket. Babe was being worn down, plain and simple.

So sitting out for a bigger contract is not a modern idea. :o

And what exactly is wrong with that? He didn't deserve a raise? He was nearly single handedly responsible for more than 2.5 million fans coming to the Polo Ground over the next two seasons, which allowed the Yanks to buy the land for Yankee Stadium. Why not credit him for understanding his value.

So Ruth the Yankees' captain for just five days? I can go and on about Ruth's behavior and how it destroyed Helen Ruth's life as well. But in the end it doesn't effect how one rate's Ruth as a player. I don't compare Ruth to Bonds or any other player. Different times, different era, different game.

In one aspect Bonds has more respect for the game. He doesn't threaten managers or punch fans. When Jim Leyand had enough of Bond's crap back in 1991-92 he told Bond to shut his trap and play ball. Barry backed down because he had deep respect for his manager.

Ruth and Bonds, like all people, are flawed human beings. We all say and do thing that make us look like jerks. The only difference is that Ruth and Bonds showcased their "jerk" behavior in public.

You should read up on the '22 suspensions. You can go on and on about his behavior, and I can go on and on about how genuine and generous he was.

Bonds has more respect for the game? That's laughable. Barry is making so much money that everyone is afraid to step on his toes. If he had respect for the game he'd be available to the public, he's be honest about his steroid mistake and not screw the integrity of the game. He wouldn't pose at home plate after homers and show up pitchers. Yeah, Bonds has more respect for the game? In order to genuinely respect baseball you need to love the game. Does Bonds love the game more than Babe did?

Babe was a flawed human being in his own way, that is fact. He enjoyed women and booze. He could visit a hospital and go to a brothel all in the same day. He was a complex man when you break down the layers, but he wasn't a "jerk" with bad intentions.

By the way, other players beat up, or threatened to beat up their managers and teammates. Other players went into the stands after fans. Other players were absolute drunks. Alexander and Hack Wilson come to mind. Other players cheated on their wives. Satchel Paige comes to mind. Many other players had character flaws. Which is beautiful. They were human. Would we want our baseball heroes to be made out of clay, with no emotion, no human qualities? Babe had his blemishes, but to only look at those and not go deeper is a shame. He meant more to fans and the game than any of us can image.

Hey HWR, we shouldn't be discussing this on this thread. These guys need to get back to making excuses for Bonds ;) jk guys

Seriously though, if you wanna discuss chinks in Babe's armour, go to the BR discussion thread, k. Out of respect for this thread.

[west coast orange and black]

runningshoes53, i did not publicly suggest that you condoned another's wish that bonds be harmed - you did. what i did, mistakenly, is take your words seriously. big difference.

from time to time my posts are interpreted as other than intended. discussions are not face to face and the smilies do not always provide full coverage. so i have been grateful that i have been given the benefit of the doubt. in this case, after reading the two posts, i asked fellow moderators for advice. it was only after a day had passed and a fellow mod agreed with me in principle that the two posts needed to be addressed that i posted my response. what i am saying is that i did not react in a knee-jerk manner; i gave the benefit of the doubt; i asked for help.

i take you at your word that you do not wish harm to any ballplayer. if you want to continue a discussion about the issue, by all means p.m. me.

but please do not be so bold as to *know* where i travel and what my reading habits are. your suggestion that i need to venture outside the giants forum a little more often is out of turn. you have no idea which fora i visit nor which threads i read... on a near-daily basis.

[wogdoggy]

Why do people care if ballplayers are jerks? I sure don't. Why should we care if actors, rock stars, playwrights, writers, artists, painters are nice or jerks?


I care cause unfortunately barry is a role model for kids.I tell my kid to find a better role model..Yeah I care.You bet I do.

[TonyStarks]

Tony, need I remind you that it's definitely not in good form to wish harm upon a baseball player, even if you personally dislike him? If you hope that he never breaks Ruth's then Aaron's records, so be it. I personally may agree with you, but I wouldn't really be parading that viewpoint here in the Giants' forum. I'd at least have some dignity about how I'd voiced this.

Please read my comment to Tony. Sad thing is that you're both regulars to me, so I don't see any reason why these things have to be even stated. Both on your parts, as well as the resulting need for my statements.

Please be discreet in your words in the future, please.

Thanks. :)

-Matt


Mattingly,
I would like to take the time to apologize for publically stating my feelings towards Mr. Bonds.

In the future I should learn to curb my voice and hold back my feelings towards certain individuals in Professional Sports....no matter how vile, despicable or however arrogant that son of a toothless dog is.

For the Record though...I would like to let the jury know that from '87 to '95 I was one of the worlds biggest Barry Bonds fans and in his Pirate days he was my Favorite Athlete not named Mattingly.

[west coast orange and black]

the giants forum *thanks you*, mr. tonystarks.

[bondsgirrrl]

OK, but using Bond's logic he shouldn't play any spring training games either because he might get hurt. How is playing in the WBC any different than playing spring training games in terms of chances of getting hurt? He was going to be the DH for Team USA so he wouldn't have had to play the field.

I'm very disappointed in Bonds.I for one am not dissapointed in Bonds. IT is different than playing in ST. For one he will be playing with his team. As a fan I want him playing with a team than a non MLB game.