What do you want to read about in a biography?

[Brian McKenna]

how important are nonbaseball topics to you in reading a biography of a baseball figure?

how much do you want to know about his family? do you care if he was a mason or a religious person, etc.?

on the baseball end:

do you want page after page of game results and play-by-play?

i 'm reading a bio now about tris speaker that spends a full page on babe ruth being thrown out to end the 1926 world series which has absolutely nothing to to with speaker

any thoughts?

[E.Banks#14]

I like reading interesting anecdotes about anything that concerns a certain player. Whether it be from childhood, minor league ball, or in retirement. I get bored if it's just filled with numbers, numbers, and more numbers. I want to hear the story of the player's life, not just how he spent 8 hours a day for 20 years.

[Brian McKenna]

i agree - can't stand constant play by play - that's why i enjoy reading about men who did more than just play the sport - managers and executives offer more interesting material at times

[runningshoes]

You're referring to Gay's book?

I haven't read it yet and probably won't until I get back to Canada, but my guess is he had a hard time filling the book with Speaker's biographical information, so he copped out, filling its pages with fluff.

I like to know anything that might help explain the player. To a certain extent, I don't care about any one player's on field play unless I'm reading a team biography or a franchise history.

I want to know what made Speaker tick. I know he was one of the greatest players of the Dead Ball era. I can read about that anywhere.

How much of the book deals with his father's death and how it drove him on the playing field, Brian?

I know he really withdrew into himself.

Does the book look at those aspects of his life?

[E.Banks#14]

Have you read Lou Gehrig's biography by Jonathan Eig? I haven't yet, just wondering what others thought.

[johnny]

I finished it a few months ago. It is fantastic. Especially in that the author had original source material, namely handwritten letters from the participants, which really brought things alive. You really got a glimpse into his issues vis a vi false hope and how he was given a generous dose of it by some of his doctors -even when he was asking for the straight scoop.
The author was also able to put the medical issues in perspective with input from current experts in the field of ALS that could give you a glimpse into the hell he was going through. It makes the year before he retired, 1938, probably one of the most impressive years given the state of his health.
The author also brought in more detail as to his spouse. Also little things like the type of house he lived in which was particularly hard on someone in his condition (numerous stairs) and the agony he went through.

[Brian McKenna]

IHow much of the book deals with his father's death and how it drove him on the playing field, Brian?

I know he really withdrew into himself.

Does the book look at those aspects of his life?

tris was 9 or 10 when his father died in 1898 - you might be thinking of cobb

the book is not bad - i've enjoyed it - gives good baseball info

[Brian McKenna]

why did gehrig keep working after he fell ill - he didn't need the money

[runningshoes]

He was 10 when his father died.

I'm guessing there's not much in the book about how that could have affected his development
as a teenager and then a young man. I know from an early age, he excelled, aggressivel, in both football and baseball and I'm wondering how the death played a part in his development as an athlete and a person.

[Brian McKenna]

He was 10 when his father died.

I'm guessing there's not much in the book about how that could have affected his development as a teenager and then a young man.

not really - in fact his father is introduced - dies and is not referred to until speaker's burial in the same cemetery

yeah - i've been researching clark griffith lately - his father was killed (mistook for a deer) when he was 2 in 1871 - good luck finding and tangible info on that

[runningshoes]

I know his father and uncle were both confederate soldiers. Maybe he was a chip off the old block. I know he became a loner after his father's death. Maybe the info is just not there.

[Brian McKenna]

speakers two uncles byron and james joined the confederacy but speakers father a.o. wasn't born until 1852

[runningshoes]

I'm doubting you, but I would like to see the original source of that date.

Sorry, Brian. I meant I'm not doubting you.

[Brian McKenna]

yeah - that's in gay's book and it's not that hard to find - so i would believe gay's date is probably correct

[Brian McKenna]

troy - you have access to census records with sabr - i just did a quick check and found the 1860 census for the family of henry speaker in texas - he lists his son archery as 9 years old

[wamby]

I think it depends on the scope of the book. If it's a book about a season or pennent race then I want to see some play by play from crucial games. The book Babe Chases Sixty has some play by play of each game that he hit a HR in 1927.

For a biography I want to see original source material with a good bibliography and/or footnotes so that I can find the original source material. I'm not that interested in interviews with eighty year old men talking about stuff that happened sixty years ago. I'd rather read comments from sixty years ago.

I tend to avoid basbeball biographies that were written by sportswriters. I'd rather read something from a more scholarly approach. For instance with Ty Cobb, I'll take Alexander over Stump.

I just finished Frank DeFord's book about Mathewson and McGraw and found it to be disapointing. Too snarky by far. It didn't seem all that well researched to me.

Eig's biography of Gehrig was pretty good. It made me realize that Gehrig's 1939 season was probably the most amazing that a ballplayer ever had.

[runningshoes]

Sorry, Brian. I meant I'm not doubting you.

[Brian McKenna]

Sorry, Brian. I meant I'm not doubting you.

ah - you always have to doubt - that's how we get to the underlying truth

[johnny]

why did gehrig keep working after he fell ill - he didn't need the money

In the recent bio, it comes across that he really thought he could tough it out. His identity was tied up in being a NY Yankee.
The theory that he was working under was that he would literally have to bottom out and then he could recover. At some point he realized that not only would he be unable to play ball but that the illness could kill him. Many of his doctors were filling him with a lot of sunshine and its amazing to read his letters in which he is basically asking the doctors to tell him the real truth.

[sadiemae]

I wrote a bio of Hugh Jennings, published by McFarland last year. Jennings started out as a miner and I wrote lots of stuff about mining and the area of PA where he came from.
Every time he went to a new town as he progressed in baseball, Lehighton PA, Louisville, Baltimore, Detroit I wrote a little history of each place.
Jennings became a lawyer and I wrote about that and about his staunch Catholicism. Had to do all that to reach publishers minimum word count or a full bio of 70,000.
70,000 words of nothing but baseball games would be petty tedious.
The book is called "Ee-yah" which was a trademark yell of Jennings' when he coached base as a manager. There's a chapter on that as well as one of his relationship with Cobb, when he managed Detroit 1907-20.

[Brian McKenna]

welcome mr. smiles - jennings is one of the most overlooked of the 1890s stars - i think the best on the orioles and a personal favorite - but with mcgraw shooting his mouth off in new york for three decades you'd think he was the only oriole that ever existed and that he singlehandedly built modern baseball and cured all the world's ills

unfortunately, i haven't seen your bio yet - did jennings actually practice law at any point?

[johnny]

at least the original stump bio, cobb paints a fairly horrid picture of jennings during the latter managerial term. pretty much a drunk that cobb had to pull through lest jennings make a decision that would cost the team.
in your research, have you been able to determine how much truth there was to that. was he an alcoholic? if so was his work that impaired?
thanks

[sadiemae]

Johnny,
I did tons of research and the only evidence I could find of Jennings' drunkeness was Cobb's sayso. That doesn't mean it's not true. It seems he drank with McGraw and the boys early in his career and then again in the later years at Detroit but must have kept it in control in between.
The old Orioles would have yearly reunions and get hammered at those. There is a passage in the book about a party thrown by the Jennings Club each year in Scranton PA, where he lived, before he left to go to spring training. The story was that many of the guys were still wandering around Scranton in their suits and ties the next morning, but Jennings didn't take it that far.
He and McGraw were great friends. He was probably McGraw's only friend. It was a strange relationship. They were an odd couple, but it endured.
He practiced law in Scranton with his brother. In the book is a passage about him handling the case of a man whose prize rooster was killed by, of all things, a baseball. Very funny.
Jennings started out as a coal miner. By the way his great-grandson is the mayor of Scranton today.
You can order the book at Amazon
Jack

[Old Mike]

I haven't read the Jennings book but it is on my short list to purchase.

I just finished the Speaker book and have mixed feelings.

1. Photos were not original enough. A couple were but many I had seen before.

2. I would have preferred more documention in regards to footnotes.

3. The author depended too much on the opinions of current accepted historians like Glenn Stout, Richard Johnson, etc. I would have preferred more of the author's own thoughts.

Still, though, a ful biography of Speaker was well overdue.

Not an an A, but a strong B effort.

[bmull]

Like the author of the Jennings book, I had my book on the 1940 Cincinnati Reds and Willard Hershberger's suicide, published by McFarland. In doing the research for the book, I found some of the biographical data that was non-baseball related among the most interesting aspects of the research. The backstory of Hershberger (the fact that his father killed himself and Willard held himself responsible) was of course essential, but I also found little things that I learned about Bill McKechnie (after his career was over, he used to have barbecues at his house where everybody no matter their age got their own individual steaks -including the family dog) and others that fleshed them out as people and gave nsight as to who they were beyond the stats.

I don't know if it always came through in my book - but when I was writing about a season that happened long before I was born, it helped give me an idea about who these guys were and made me understand them more.

[runningshoes]

Like the author of the Jennings book, I had my book on the 1940 Cincinnati Reds and Willard Hershberger's suicide, published by McFarland. In doing the research for the book, I found some of the biographical data that was non-baseball related among the most interesting aspects of the research. The backstory of Hershberger (the fact that his father killed himself and Willard held himself responsible) was of course essential, but I also found little things that I learned about Bill McKechnie (after his career was over, he used to have barbecues at his house where everybody no matter their age got their own individual steaks -including the family dog) and others that fleshed them out as people and gave nsight as to who they were beyond the stats.

I don't know if it always came through in my book - but when I was writing about a season that happened long before I was born, it helped give me an idea about who these guys were and made me understand them more.

Definately. Those are the types of things I like to read about in a biography. It's not that difficult to find out what they did in relation to the game, but finding out what made them tick is what I enjoy.

[sadiemae]

Bmull,

Is the 1940 Reds book still in print? What's the name of it.

Jack S

[bmull]

Yes, it came out last year... It's called The 1940 Cincinnati Reds: A World Championship and Baseball's Only In-Season Suicide. It's available through Barnes & Noble and Amazon ...

[sadiemae]

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