Josh Gibson

[Brian McKenna]

let's sing gibson praises in relation to gibson - the negro leagues stand by itself - it has its own identity - gibson does not have value because he can be related to oh or piazza - the negro leagues has its own rich history - why don't we talk aout that?

gibson hit the longest verified homer at yankee stadium - it hit two feet from the top of the wall behind the center field bleachers - 580 feet

he is also reputed to hit the only shot to leave yankee stadium - in 1934

paige and gibson formed the battery for the 1936-37 pittsburgh crawfords of the negro national league - perhaps no finer combo exits

gibson was highly regarded by the two major league owners who saw him play everyday - clark griffith of wash and bill benswanger of pit

[jalbright]

He was a very crucial contributor on quite a few champions--the Crawfords and the Grays dynasty chief among them. I count four Negro League world series champs and several more pennant winners. Add to that a title in Cuba and in the 1937 Dominican, that's quite a few. He was in the Negro League all-star game 13 times. He won 11 Negro League HR titles, 1 such title in Mexica and 2 in Puerto Rico. He added batting titles in the 37 Dominican, Puerto Rico and one in the Negro Leagues. That's a heck of a resume.

Jim Albright

[Brian McKenna]

it's a testament to the strong grays clubs that won nine straight titles from 1937-45 that they were unchecked even when gibson left to play in mexico and venezuela in 1940 and '41

unlike the stories you always here about the 1909 cubs missing johnny kling

[Leg Zep]

Afternoon Gents,

Just joined the site and gettin' my feet wet.

Concerning Big J Gibson -- I would love to see Josh in his prime against The Babe in a regular game (not a HR derby). They were both outstanding bashers, but Josh had such an incerdible eye for the ball (along with wicked bat speed) I think he woulda given the babe a run for his $$.

I got into the Negro League history back when Buck O'Neil did his pitch in the early '90 with Ken Burn's Baseball history. Up to that point I thought MLB B-Ball of the 30-40 was the best of all eras -- not so now. Had intergation occured prior to the Great Depression, I would've loved to seen how Josh did in the majors (probably with the Pirates -- imagine that).

Anyway, as much as I dig Josh and his bis stick, he never hit the ball out of Yankee Stadium. The only book that states he did was "Only the Ball was White" but all other books about Josh and that era state he didn't. Even the old-timers who played with him say "they heard" he did it (to keep from actually killing the myth a la Babe Ruth Called Shot). It doesn't take away from his legend, thats for sure.

As for comparing Mike Piazza to Big Gib -- Mikey relies too much on his brute strength to crush the ball: Slow Eyes. But Piazza is a better battery than Josh (grant it, I wonder how Josh would've done had they discovered and treated his brain tumor in time -- no dizzy spells when catching fly balls).

Cheers,

Leg Zep

[Brian McKenna]

Anyway, as much as I dig Josh and his bis stick, he never hit the ball out of Yankee Stadium. The only book that states he did was "Only the Ball was White" but all other books about Josh and that era state he didn't. Even the old-timers who played with him say "they heard" he did it (to keep from actually killing the myth a la Babe Ruth Called Shot). It doesn't take away from his legend, thats for sure.


welcome to the forum

the out of the park reference came from an eye witness account by jack marshall of the chicago american giants - it's validity - not sure - you figure there would be more eyewitness accounts

[Sashag]

As I recall, "Only the Ball was White" was the premier book on negro league ball, and I feel is still one of the best sources. In addition, the author was part of the voters for the ballot for the recent HOF Negro League inductees, he was fortunate enough to mail in his ballot just a few days before he passed.

[Sultan_1895-1948]

Does anyone have Buck O'Neil's book "I Was Right On Time" or something like that. If they do, could you type the passage toward the beginning that talks about him hearing the sound of a cracking bat. He describes how he had only heard that sound one other time and it was from Babe's bat. And he went to see who was hitting and it was Gibson? Can't remember the exact story, I briefly read it at the library. Anyone have it?

[Honus Wagner Rules]

let's sing gibson praises in relation to gibson - the negro leagues stand by itself - it has its own identity - gibson does not have value because he can be related to oh or piazza - the negro leagues has its own rich history - why don't we talk aout that?
OK.


gibson hit the longest verified homer at yankee stadium - it hit two feet from the top of the wall behind the center field bleachers - 580 feet
Verified by whom? Can you post some documentation? I thought Mantle has the longest blast in Yankee Stadium history?


he is also reputed to hit the only shot to leave yankee stadium - in 1934
This is a complete myth. It never happened.


paige and gibson formed the battery for the 1936-37 pittsburgh crawfords of the negro national league - perhaps no finer combo exits
I can go with that.


gibson was highly regarded by the two major league owners who saw him play everyday - clark griffith of wash and bill benswanger of pit
Gibson was highly regarded by everyone who say him play! :D

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Does anyone have Buck O'Neil's book "I Was Right On Time" or something like that. If they do, could you type the passage toward the beginning that talks about him hearing the sound of a cracking bat. He describes how he had only heard that sound one other time and it was from Babe's bat. And he went to see who was hitting and it was Gibson? Can't remember the exact story, I briefly read it at the library. Anyone have it?
I think he said he heard it three times, Williams (or Ruth?), Gibson, and Bo Jackson.

[Sultan_1895-1948]

I think he said he heard it three times, Williams (or Ruth?), Gibson, and Bo Jackson.

I have this weird habit of looking up Babe's name in the back of the index, and then reading those pages where he is mentioned. The passage that I read I know said Ruth for sure. Didn't say anything about Bo or Ballgame, maybe somewhere else in the book he did.

[Blackout]

he said it for Ruth, Gibson and Bo Jackson

no Ted

[Sultan_1895-1948]

he said it for Ruth, Gibson and Bo Jackson

no Ted

Bo?

Huh.

His hearing must have been shot by then :confused:

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Bo?

Huh.

His hearing must have been shot by then :confused:

Bo had a John Gibson type body, only about 30 pounds heavier.

[Sultan_1895-1948]

Bo had a John Gibson type body, only about 30 pounds heavier.

Bo is arguably the greatest athlete to ever play any sport period. But I doubt his bat made the same sound as Gibson and Ruth. If Buck said it, then who am I to not believe, but it might be that Buck was searching for that sound more than he actually heard it's equal. The weight of those bats had a lot to do with the sound. Not sure what size Bo used, but...

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Bo is arguably the greatest athlete to ever play any sport period. But I doubt his bat made the same sound as Gibson and Ruth. If Buck said it, then who am I to not believe, but it might be that Buck was searching for that sound more than he actually heard it's equal. The weight of those bats had a lot to do with the sound. Not sure what size Bo used, but...
Also, there about 40-50 years of time between Ruth/Gibson and Bo Jackson. The human memory is not that good. :o

[Sultan_1895-1948]

The human memory is not that good. :o

What were we discussing again? ;)

[SHOELESSJOE3]

he said it for Ruth, Gibson and Bo Jackson

no Ted

This is the way I recall it. Gibson, Ruth and Jackson.

I did read one article where Walter Johnson commented on Ruth and the sound, bat meeting ball. Walter said when Ruth got a hold of one it sounded like no other. It was a clicking noise like when two billiard balls hit each other.

Walter was very diplomatic when asked who he believed hit the ball the hardest, the farthest,. He never gave a direct answer but he did say, " the balls hit by Ruth got smaller quicker" than the others.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

What were we discussing again? ;)
Why are you talking to me? Do I know you? :confused:

[Ex-Expo fan]

"The first time I saw Ruth, up in St. Petersburg, it wasn't so much the sight of him that got to me as the sound. When Ruth was hitting the ball, it was a distinct sound, like a small stick of dynamite going off. You could tell it was Ruth and not Gehrig and not Lazzeri. The next time I heard that sound was in 1938, my first year with the Monarchs. We were in Griffith Stadium in Washington to play the Homestead Grays, and I heard that sound all the way up in the clubhouse, so I ran down to the dugout in just my pants and my sweatshirt to see who was hitting the ball. And it was Josh Gibson. I thought, my land, that's a powerful man.
I didn't hear it again for almost fifty years. I thought I'd never hear ir again. But I was at Royals Stadium, scouting the American League for the Cubs, and I came out of the press room and was going down to field level when I heard that ball sound as if the Babe or Josh were still down there. Pow! Pow! Pow! It was Boe Jackson- the Royals had just called him up. And I'll tell you this: I'm going to keep going to the ballpark until I hear that sound again"

"Oh Oh and yeah Ruth couldn't have hit 60 homers in the sixties!":D ;)

[Bill Burgess]

Joshua (Josh) Gibson:
1929-46; Positions: C, OF, 3B, 1B; Teams: Homestead GHrays ('29-31, '37-'40, '42-'46), Pittsburgh Crawfords ('32-'36), Santo Domingo ('37), Mexican L. ('40-'41); BR/TR; 6'1, 210; Born: Dec. 21, 1911, Buena Vista, GA; Died: Jan. 20, 1947, Pittsburgh, PA

In black baseball, only Satchel Paige was better known than Joshua Gibson. Hit for both distance/ave. Was aptly titled "the black Babe Ruth", and his charisma electrified the crowd. Like Jimmie Foxx, he rolled up his sleeves to bare his huge arm muscles. Used a semicrouched, flat-footed stance and without striding, he generated a compact swing that launched so many tape measure shots, that, like Ruth, they came to become expected.

Black kids idolized him, and he is credited with blasting one out of Yankee Stadium, but, like Ruth's "called shot", it is more folklore than fact.

Gibson was credited with 962 HRs in his 17 yr. career, although many of these wre against nonleague teams. Many of the individual season marks that are accredited to him also are against all levels of opposition.

In Mexico, he hit 44 HRs in 450 ABs with an .802 SLG. and, in one winter season in Puerto Rico, hit 13 HRs in 123 ABs, smashing a HR every 9.5 ABs.

He compiled a .354 BA in the NL, .373 BA for 2 yrs, in Mexico, .353 BA for 2 winters in Cuba, .412 BA. in exhibitions games against major leaguers.

Defensively, he had a rifle arm, and worked hard to make himself one of the better receivers in the league. His only flaw in his game was weakness on pop-ups behind the plate. He was quick, behind the plate & on the bases, & ran the bases well. Both Walter Johnson and Carl Hubbell placed him among the all time great catchers. Johnson assessed his value at $200K, twice what he placed on Bill Dickey. His fans voted him to start 9 East-West all star games, in which he hit .483.

Despite his success on the field, by 1942, a dark side began showing itself. By the end of '42, a decline in his physical and mental well-being was obvious.
In Jan., 1943, he was committed to the hospital after having a nervous breakdown. From then until his death, he was plagued with personal problems, depression, compounded by his excessive drinking, and possible substance abuse.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Estimated Win Shares from Baseball Think Factory for Negro Leaguers already in the BBF HOF
Josh Gibson: 468 career WS, 169 for best 5 consecutive, best three of 41, 40 and 34. Seen as a 327/431/595 hitter in the majors for his career. Estimated at 2164 career hits.

-----------------Josh Gibson-----------------------------Josh Gibson, Crawfords C, 1932-36----------BB Library bio (http://www.baseballlibrary.com/ballplayers/player.php?name=Josh_Gibson_1911)---Bill Burgess' write-up (http://baseball-fever.com/showpost.php?p=298655&postcount=100)
http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv217/BillBurgess/Negro%20Leagues/Image5-5.jpg

-----------Josh Gibson, Negro L. C
1942 at Forbes Field with Homestead Grays --------------- Pittsburgh Crawfords ca. 1942-----Baseball Think Factory (http://baseball-fever.com/showpost.php?p=579816&postcount=21)----------------------At Forbes Field, 1942, with Homestead Grays
http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv217/BillBurgess/Negro%20Leagues/Image9-1.jpg

[SHOELESSJOE3]

gibson hit the longest verified homer at yankee stadium - it hit two feet from the top of the wall behind the center field bleachers - 580 feet

he is also reputed to hit the only shot to leave yankee stadium - in 1934



This is what I could dig up regarding home runs at Yankee Stadium and Josh Gibson. The second entry from the man himself, his words Josh Gibson.

[Macker]

gibson was highly regarded by the two major league owners who saw him play everyday - clark griffith of wash and bill benswanger of pit

Just how 'everyday' did they see him play? I doubt they saw him that much.

[LeoD]

http://www.nlbpa.com/gibson_josh.jpg

[LeoD]

1944 All-Star game Comiskey Park

[Brian McKenna]

Just how 'everyday' did they see him play? I doubt they saw him that much.

I guess I shouldn't have said "everyday." I'm sure Griffith saw him quite a bit - Benwanger I'm not sure how often.