Current Top 10 Shortstops Poll [Archive]

Yankee Legend

12-29-2005, 02:47 PM

This is the fifth installment of the positon polls for currnt players. To vote, simple list the top 10 shortstops that are active in order from best (#1) to least (#10). The results will be tabulated and will be announced on jan 5 @ 10 PM or 2 days after the last ballot was submitted. The points will be alloted based on the player's ranking on each list (1st place gets 10, 2nd gets 9, 3rd gets 8, etc.) Remember, YOU MUST LIST 10!!!!!

Although you may vote for whomever you see fit I strongly urge you to consider offensive as well as defensive preformance. Also, try to rate players in either preformance in the 2005 mlb season or preformance in the last 3-4 years. However, you may can use career performance as a factor.

Here are the results from previous polls:

Catchers
1. Victor Martinez
2. Jason Varitek
3. Joe Mauer
4. Jorge Posada
5. Ivan Rodriguez
6. Ramon Hernandez
6. Bengie Molina
8. Mike Matheny
9. Michael Barrett
10. Paul Lo Duca

First Basemen
1. Albert Pujols
2. Derek Lee
3. Mark Teixeira
4. Carlos Delgado
5. Todd Helton
6. Paul Konerko
7. Jason Giambi
8. Lance Berkman
9. Richie Sexson
10. Jim Thome

Second Basemen
1. Jeff Kent
2. Alfonso Soriano
3. Marcus Giles
4. Brian Roberts
5. Chase Utley
6. Placido Polanco
7. Robinson Cano
7. Luis Castillo
9. Craig Biggio
10. Mark Loretta

Third Basemen
1. Alex Rodriguez
2. Scott Rolen
3. Miguel Cabrera
4. David Wright
5. Eric Chavez
6. Morgan Ensberg
7. Aramis Ramirez
8. Troy Glaus
9. Chipper Jones
10. Melvin Mora

Yankee Legend

12-29-2005, 03:12 PM

1. Miguel Tejada
2. Derek Jeter
3. David Eckstein
4. Michael Young
5. Omar Vizquel
6. Edgar Renteria
7. Jimmy Rollins
8. Rafael Furcal
9. Jose Reyes
10. Nomar Garciaparra

Boston Boxer

12-29-2005, 03:39 PM

Yankee Legend

12-29-2005, 03:49 PM

Ok, i find it very funny that you put Jeter #2...Nomar??? Really?

ok maybe jeter is not as good as he used to be. but he is still better than most other shortstops out their. but maybe a boston fan can't understand. despite being injured most of the season, nomar still hit pretty well in 2005.

wilkerson_rulz-06

12-29-2005, 04:27 PM

1) Jimmy Rollins
2) Rafael Furcal
3) Derek Jeter
4) Miguel Tejada
5) Khalil Greene
6) Johnny Peralta
7) Michael Young
8) Cezar Izturis
9) Omar Vizquel
10) David Eckstein
Mentions: Garciappara(not worth all that money, overrated), Jose Reyes(good speed, average bat), O-Cab(awesome D, under-average bat)

Blackout

12-29-2005, 04:39 PM

1-Derek Jeter
2-Michael Young
3-Miguel Tejada
4-Jose Reyes (and he'll only get better)
5-Omar Vizquel
6-Jimmy Rollins
7-Nomar Garciapara
8-Edgar Renteria (assumning last year was a fluke)
9-Rafael Furcal
10-David Eckstein

Astro

12-29-2005, 05:16 PM

Ok, i find it very funny that you put Jeter #2...Nomar??? Really?

1. Miguel Tejada
2. Khalil Greene
3. Michael Young
4. Rafael Furcal
5. Orlando Cabrera
6. David Eckstein
7. Derek Jeter
8. Jimmy Rollins
9. Jhonny Peralta
10. Omar Vizquel
This coming from someone who puts Khalil Greene as the 2nd best shortstop in baseball... I think you lose your speaking priveliges

wilkerson_rulz-06

12-29-2005, 05:19 PM

This coming from someone who puts Khalil Greene as the 2nd best shortstop in baseball... I think you lose your speaking priveliges

Astro's got a pont
Be careful what you say, it could come back to HAUNT YOU!!:laugh :cool:

pacewon

12-29-2005, 05:57 PM

This coming from someone who puts Khalil Greene as the 2nd best shortstop in baseball... I think you lose your speaking priveliges

Precisely.

How can somebody rank Greene, Cabrera, and Eckstein ahead of Jeter and then have the audacity to question somebody else's choices?

STLCards2

12-29-2005, 06:24 PM

1. Tejada
2. Young
3. Jeter
4. Rollins
5. Peralta
6. Furcal
7. Reyes
8. Eckstein
9. Greene
10. Renteria

Cubano100%

12-29-2005, 06:48 PM

1. Miguel Tejada
2. Derek Jeter
3. David Eckstein
4. Michael Young
5. Omar Vizquel
6. Edgar Renteria
7. Jimmy Rollins
8. Rafael Furcal
9. Jose Reyes
10. Nomar Garciaparra

Oh, man. No Yuniesky Betancourt in your list (Mariners). Jeter was given a gold glove over Angels Orlando Cabrera. That was a gift! Next year, no more gift for him because the Cuban kid from the Villa Clara Orange Growers (Cuban National League) will win it. In 2005, Betancourt came from the Mexican street to AA to AAA to the big leagues. The scouts are comparing him to Omar Vizquel!

Do you want to watch a gorgeous play?

Check the link below:

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/p...ayer_id=435358

Under Multimedia, select Betancourt's Gorgeous Play.

Guerrero Mad Man 2715

12-29-2005, 06:51 PM

Precisely.

How can somebody rank Greene, Cabrera, and Eckstein ahead of Jeter and then have the audacity to question somebody else's choices?

I personally find Jeter to be overated. Anyone can hae a mentality like him.

1. Micheal Young
2. Miguel Tejada
3. Khalil Greene
4. David Eckstein
5. Orlando Cabrera
6. Cesar Izturis
7. Rafeal Furcal
8. Bobby Crosby
9. Nomar Garciaparra
10. Tadihito Iguchi

Bob Hannah

12-29-2005, 06:53 PM

Do you want to watch a gorgeous play?

Check the link below:

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/p...ayer_id=435358

Under Multimedia, select Betancourt's Gorgeous Play.
Can't get the link to work.

Blackout

12-29-2005, 07:02 PM

I personally find Jeter to be overated. Anyone can hae a mentality like him.

1. Micheal Young
2. Miguel Tejada
3. Khalil Greene
4. David Eckstein
5. Orlando Cabrera
6. Cesar Izturis
7. Rafeal Furcal
8. Bobby Crosby
9. Nomar Garciaparra
10. Tadihito Iguchi

:laugh :laugh :laugh :laugh

Cubano100%

12-29-2005, 07:10 PM

Can't get the link to work.

I just checked it. But if it does not work again for you, go to his MLB page. Type his last name in the search feature in the top right on MLB home page.

You will find two players with a Betancourt last name. Select Yuniesky Betancourt.

Under Multimedia, select either 56K/350K.

Guys, it was a great play. He did another great play just after this one in the same innings. It is worth watching!

Cubano100%

12-29-2005, 07:12 PM

Astro

12-29-2005, 07:18 PM

Ok, I think Guerrero also loses his speaking priveliges

will have my list in a few minutes

Guerrero Mad Man 2715

12-29-2005, 07:20 PM

Alright, alright.....Jeter is okay....

Cubano100%

12-29-2005, 07:21 PM

Notes: Betancourt drawing comparisons
Defensive similarities to Vizquel have infielder on fast track
By Chris Hester / Special to MLB.com

Yuniesky Betancourt entered Wednesday with one error over 44 games this season. (Jeff Roberson/AP)

SEATTLE -- Yuniesky Betancourt is making a good impression playing shortstop for the Mariners. The slick-fielding middle infielder is already being compared to one of the game's greatest defensive shortstops, former Mariner and current San Francisco Giant Omar Vizquel.
"Everybody keeps wanting to compare him to Vizquel, and I think that's good -- I don't think there's anything wrong with that," manager Mike Hargrove said of the comparison between his current shortstop and the 11-time Gold Glove Award winner he used to manage in Cleveland. "The difference between Omar and Yuni is that Omar's been doing it for 20 years and Yuni's been doing it for about a month. He certainly is a very talented defender, and I think he's going to hit."

Betancourt made a pair of defensive gems in Tuesday night's 2-1 victory over the Angels. In the first inning, Vladimir Guerrero hit a roller toward short with two outs and a runner on third base. Betancourt charged and picked the ball bare-handed before throwing a strike to first base to end the inning.

In the seventh inning, the Angels plated their only run of the game and had runners on the corners with two away when the left-handed-hitting Steve Finley lofted a ball down the left-field line. With left fielder Raul Ibanez shading Finley toward the gap, Betancourt was forced to race into the outfield, making the catch in foul ground with his back to the infield.

"The play he made down the line on the foul ball, that's as good a play as you'll see anybody make," Hargrove added. "I thought that was more impressive than the barehand [play], but they both were pretty good."

The 23-year-old Cuban has been almost flawless in the field, handling 149 chances at shortstop and making just one miscue for a .993 fielding percentage. At second base, he's handled 44 chances without making an error.

With the bat, Betancourt is hitting .222 with six doubles, four triples and seven RBIs in 42 games since being called up from Triple-A Tacoma on
July 28.

http://seattle.mariners.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=435358

Astro

12-29-2005, 07:26 PM

1. Michael Young
2. Derek Jeter
3. Miguel Tejada
4. Carlos Guillen (I'm a little confused as to why no one else has him listed)
5. Rafael Furcal
6. Jhonny Peralta
7. Jimmy Rollins
8. Edgar Renteria
9. Bobby Crosby
10. David Eckstein

Evangelion

12-29-2005, 09:27 PM

Jeter over-rated? Yeah, sure... :ughh

Jeter only failed to hit over 300. twice during his career. Not counting 95 since he was not the starting SS yet. He's a career 314. hitter and has scored 1159 in nine full seasons as the Yankee starting SS. As a Red Sox fan, I can't even deny the fact that Jeter is good.

Though, I will admit Jeter has been over-rated on the defense side. Don't get me wrong, he's very good, but not the best. Especially this year, because we all know that OC should have won the Gold Glove in the AL this year, not Jeter. Nonetheless, that still doesn't mean Jeter is not a good fielder. He's still a gold glove level SS.

Anyway, my list.

1. Miguel Tejada
2. Derek Jeter
3. Michael Young
4. Rafael Furcal
5. Jhonny Peralta
6. Jimmy Rollins
7. Jose Reyes
8. Carlos Guillen
9. Bobby Crosby
10. David Eckstein

The Big C

12-30-2005, 01:00 AM

1: Alex Rodriguez (he's still the best)
2: Miguel Tejada
3: Jhonny Peralta
4: Derek Jeter
5: Carlos Guillen
6: Rafael Furcal
7: Michael Young
8: Orlando Cabrera
9: Omar Vizquel
10: Julio Lugo

BoofBonser26

12-30-2005, 06:30 AM

1. Miguel Tejada
2. Derek Jeter
3. Michael Young
4. Edgar Renteria
5. Rafael Furcal
6. David Eckstein
7. Jhonny Peralta
8. Jimmy Rollins
9. Omar Vizquel
10. Nomar Garciaparra

Cubsfan97

12-30-2005, 07:56 AM

When I read this I assume you have to be a SS to qualify. SO why is A-Rod and Garciaparra on here? A-Rod is 3rd and isnt Nomar taking 1st since the Furcal is at short?

56 chmps

12-30-2005, 08:31 AM

1. Jeter
2. Tejada
3. Renteria (b4 this year)
4. Furcal
5. Greene
6. Rollins
7. young
8. Eckstein
9. Reyes
10. Vizquel

Yankee Legend

12-30-2005, 09:18 AM

When I read this I assume you have to be a SS to qualify. SO why is A-Rod and Garciaparra on here? A-Rod is 3rd and isnt Nomar taking 1st since the Furcal is at short?

A-Rod doesn't but Nomar was a SS in 2005 for the Cubs.

Cubano100%

12-30-2005, 06:37 PM

They're stating why Posada better. You're not stating why Rodriguez is better, you're just stating you prefer Rodriguez, which you're welcome to do.

Yankee Stadium dimensions are 318 to Left Field, 399 to Left Center, 408 to Center, 385 to Right Center and 314 to Right Field. I'll just throw Comerica Park's dimensions out there for you, too. 346 Left Field , 402 Left Center, 422 Center, 379 Right Center and 330 Right Field.

If we were discuss who has more power, then your arguement would hold move value, but the dimensions of both stadium have nothing to do with getting a walk, which Rodriguez had a pathetic total of 11 last season as Astro stated.

You can prefer Rodriguez all you want, but it doesn't make him better than Posada these days based on numbers they have posted recently. You can argue opinions, but the numbers are facts and Posada has the better numbers.

Man, go back to one of my previous post and you will see I posted the stats of Posada, Rodriguez, Molina and Lopez. I am stating why Rodriguez is better with the stats and the dimensions of the stadiums. Posada is an afterthought in the Yankees lineup. Where does he usually hit? 6th or 7th! As for Rodriguez, he hit number 2nd or 3rd for the Tigers most of the times. Who has the best defensive skills, throwing arm and knowledge to work with the pitchers? Ivan "Pudge" Rodriguez.

Now, I have not jumped into the SS discussion. But how in the world Michael Young is not among the top 2 SS in every list. Please, the stats don't lie.

As for Mr. Nomar Garciaparra, he is not among the top 10 SS. Give me a break!!!!!!! He never could catch the ball and now his offense is not what it used to be. Some baseball mind suggested him to be a DH or move to the outfield because he even has lost a step or two. Don't throw him a first pitch fast ball because he usually swings the first pitch.

Blackout

12-30-2005, 06:53 PM

Man, go back to one of my previous post and you will see I posted the stats of Posada, Rodriguez, Molina and Lopez. I am stating why Rodriguez is better with the stats and the dimensions of the stadiums. Posada is an afterthought in the Yankees lineup. Where does he usually hit? 6th or 7th! As for Rodriguez, he hit number 2nd or 3rd for the Tigers most of the times. Who has the best defensive skills, throwing arm and knowledge to work with the pitchers? Ivan "Pudge" Rodriguez.

Now, I have not jumped into the SS discussion. But how in the world Michael Young is not among the top 2 SS in every list. Please, the stats don't lie.

As for Mr. Nomar Garciaparra, he is not among the top 10 SS. Give me a break!!!!!!! He never could catch the ball and now his offense is not what it used to be. Some baseball mind suggested him to be a DH or move to the outfield because he even has lost a step or two. Don't throw him a first pitch fast ball because he usually swings the first pitch.

you lose in the Pudge arguement, you failed to convince anyone

meanwhile, I have Michael Young at #2, but i see how others can say he's not one of the top 2 simply by looking at his home park

Cubano100%

12-30-2005, 08:23 PM

You really this bias toward Pudge that you have dimensions as an excuse as to why to Pudge is better than Posada? Lol, you make no sense. You say Pudge is better than Posada and you're complain that Young is not second on everybody's list while he has took major advantage of the dimensions of Arlington Park. Once again, can't you explain why Pudge walked only 11 times last year. Also, with Pudge higher in the order, he would have more of chance of being a better hitter than Posada, which he just wasn't last year.

Your arguement is very weak. The only thing you convice me of is you're bias fan of Pudge and just keeping saying he's better than Posada just because you like him. Sorry, your excuse that dimensions of the parks is to blame is weak, I think you keep ignore the fact Pudge just sucked last year and the dimensions of his park had nothing to do with it.

Posada was better than Rodriguez in Hrs, RBI, BB, OBP, FPCT, fewest Errors
Rodriguez was better in 2B, 3B, SLU, fewest SO, SB, fewest Past balls

This is the biggest reason why my argument is not weak:
Rodriguez allowed 33 stolen bases while Posada allowed 90. What a difference! He shuts down the opposite team running game. Other teams don't even try to steal on him!
Rodriguez caught 35 runners while Posada 39.

As for your argument about batting higher in the order, pitchers are more carefull to the number 3,4 and 5 hitters than 7 hitters. What team has a better lineup? The Yankees! Don't you think Posada benefits from being in a better line up and shorter ballpark?

Michael Young was the second in the majors in hitting. Even though he plays for Texas, he got to be among the top SS.

Young is not second on everybody's list. I have seen him 7th.

GiantPickle

12-30-2005, 08:59 PM

Young
Tejada
Jeter
Vizquel
Peralta
Eckstein
Furcal
Renteria
Berroa
Clayton

I take Rodriguez over Posada.

digglahhh

12-30-2005, 09:01 PM

digglahhh

12-30-2005, 09:10 PM

1. Tejeda: this is pretty clear cut
2. Jeter: overrated, but what he is, is enough to make him great
3. Pheralta: this guy is for real
4. Young: see above post
5. Rollins: sky's the limit
6. Furcal: overrated
7. Renteria: overrated too
8. Greene: higher celing than Furcal, Renteria
9. Eckstein: gotta give some props to the scrappy and fiesty
10. Reyes: could jump slots if he would learn to walk

On the bubble:

C. Guillen- gotta prove he cans stay healthy
Izturis: great glove, gotta hit, often hurt
Lugo: gotta prove last year was no fluke

Cubano100%

12-30-2005, 09:14 PM

Cubano

Michael Young is puts up some great numbers. Funny though that you harp on the Yankees line-up and stadium in the Posada/Pudge debate but conveniently forget to consider the phone booth Young hits in or the line-up he has around him. Not to mention that it would help to be able to catch teh ball when playing the premier defensive position in the game. Texas would be well served to send him back to 2B and go try to get a shortstop who can actually defend the position since Soriano's gone.

I wrote this in my previous comment:

"Michael Young was the second in the majors in hitting. Even though he plays for Texas, he got to be among the top SS."

I am conceiving that Young also plays in a ballpark that benefits the hitters. It is about Posada vs Rodriguez. But I can not argue anymore because this thread is for SS and not for catchers.

So I will refrain from posting anymore comments about catchers. Young was second in the majors in hitting while Posada finished who knows where. Both players play in a hitters friendly ballpark.

Let's build stadiums that all have the same dimensions like in Japan!!!!!!!!!!!!!

digglahhh

12-30-2005, 09:34 PM

I am conceiving that Young also plays in a ballpark that benefits the hitters.

Yes, Texas is extremely favorable to hitters.

No offense, but if your knowledge of the game isn't complete enough to know this off the top of your head, perhaps you should temper the accusatory tone you use when lambasting the selections of others.

Cubano100%

12-30-2005, 09:42 PM

Yes, Texas is extremely favorable to hitters.

No offense, but if your knowledge of the game isn't complete enough to know this off the top of your head, perhaps you should temper the accusatory tone you use when lambasting the selections of others.

What are your talking about?

Sure, you have so much knowledge of the game!

Have a good day!

GiantPickle

12-30-2005, 09:51 PM

Yes, Texas is extremely favorable to hitters.

No offense, but if your knowledge of the game isn't complete enough to know this off the top of your head, perhaps you should temper the accusatory tone you use when lambasting the selections of others.

You are out of line!:radio

He just stated his opinion and showed some stats and made his case. You must respect his opinion even though you disagree.

It is true that Rodriguez shutsdown the running game like no other catcher can.

Evangelion

12-30-2005, 10:07 PM

I don't want to be rude but will you please stop arguing about this posada-rodriguez thing and just post a damn list.
Nah, it's not being rude. Sorry about debate catchers in this topic.

I'll just move the Posada-Rodriguez posts over there.
If you can move the post dealing with Posada-Rodriguez to that topic, that would be cool. I would like to continue that debate for those interested. :D

Young though does deserve more credit than he has, unless you don't wish to consider him a SS, but a 2B. Young hit 331. at home and hit 330. on the road. What about his power numbers? Lol, he hit 12 home runs at home and 12 home runs away from home. You could say that Arlington Park has helped his numbers, but you would be wrong. Has played constant at home and the road. There's not a big different in his numbers at Arlington Park or playing away from Arlington. :coffee

You want a hitter that has really misque numbers between home and road, then look no further than Blalock. But, Young is an overall solid hitter, I think people should pay some more attention to him. ;)

charlesblalack@yahoo.com

12-30-2005, 10:55 PM

1) Rafael Furcal- Complete game, in his prime.
2) Michael Young- Consistent monster bat, ugly fielding.
3) Miguel Tejada- Raw traditional numbers make him a tad overrated.
4) Derek Jeter- Good numbers every year.
5) David Eckstein- Led all MLB SS in win shares in 2005.
6) Julio Lugo- Fantastic fielder, nice run producer.
7) Jimmy Rollins- Much overrated. Needs to get on base more often.
8) Johnny Peralta- Bright future.
9) Omar Vizquel- Aging, but still valuable.
10) Juan Uribe- Much underrated.

digglahhh

12-31-2005, 12:33 AM

You are out of line!:radio

He just stated his opinion and showed some stats and made his case. You must respect his opinion even though you disagree.

It is true that Rodriguez shutsdown the running game like no other catcher can.

First off all, I find it rather remarkable that you seem to have gleened such insight as to what is and what isn't out of line so quickly, as you have analyzed, processed and interpretted the commonly accepted practices of discourse here on BBF by your SECOND post.

Second of all, my comment was addressed to the fact that Cubano didn't know that Texas was a big time hitter's park. It had nothing to do with Pudge or Posada. Make sure you have a grasp on who said what in what posts before you pass judgment.

I attempted to be diplomatic. Cubano was the one ripping everybody else's lists, criticisizing Posada's achievements because of his own ballpark, and then trumping up Michael Young without even doing any research on his park. I noted that it if he didn't know the seemingly elementary fact that the Ballpark in Arlington is quite favorable to hitters, others would probably not take his criticism too seriously in general and therefore maybe he should scale it back.

I didn't profess to be some guru of baseball knowledge. Certainly nobody would make such a claim just because they knew which ballparks were kind to batters.

And in response to your question about Pudge, the true value of basestealing in general is vastly overstated by mainstream baseball pundits. I don't think controlling the running game is as important as it is touted to be. In specific circumstances its is certainly a highly valuable skill, but in general it is not as important as it is widely thought to be. How many of those SBs on Posada happened when the Yanks were up or down by like 7 or 8 runs?...

digglahhh

12-31-2005, 12:36 AM

[QUOTE=Cubano100%]
Sure, you have so much knowledge of the game. [QUOTE]

Most of the time when we insult others, we are just projecting our own insecurities upon those who threaten them.

Have a nice evening.

digglahhh

12-31-2005, 12:42 AM

Evangelion,

Nice find. I was aware of Blalock's inconsistencies on the road, his paultry OPS+ is also kind of surprising, surely a paper tiger. What about Soriano? Wait until he gets outproduced by Wilkerson in '06.

Young is remarkably consistent, and I will give him credit for that. The statement about Texas being a great place to hit though is still true. This is the exception, not the rule we are looking at. He still can't field though, and is really more of a 2B playing SS. If he were a 2B he would jump right to the top of that list.

Have you ever checked out Phat Albert's splits, scary. Apparently nothing phases this man, home/away, day/night, regular season/post season, just more evidence that he is actually an android.

BoofBonser26

12-31-2005, 06:31 AM

FYI: It's spelled "Jhonny Peralta". I'll go away now. :p

Cubano100%

12-31-2005, 08:12 AM

First off all, I find it rather remarkable that you seem to have gleened such insight as to what is and what isn't out of line so quickly, as you have analyzed, processed and interpretted the commonly accepted practices of discourse here on BBF by your SECOND post.

Second of all, my comment was addressed to the fact that Cubano didn't know that Texas was a big time hitter's park. It had nothing to do with Pudge or Posada. Make sure you have a grasp on who said what in what posts before you pass judgment.

I attempted to be diplomatic. Cubano was the one ripping everybody else's lists, criticisizing Posada's achievements because of his own ballpark, and then trumping up Michael Young without even doing any research on his park. I noted that it if he didn't know the seemingly elementary fact that the Ballpark in Arlington is quite favorable to hitters, others would probably not take his criticism too seriously in general and therefore maybe he should scale it back.

I didn't profess to be some guru of baseball knowledge. Certainly nobody would make such a claim just because they knew which ballparks were kind to batters.

And in response to your question about Pudge, the true value of basestealing in general is vastly overstated by mainstream baseball pundits. I don't think controlling the running game is as important as it is touted to be. In specific circumstances its is certainly a highly valuable skill, but in general it is not as important as it is widely thought to be. How many of those SBs on Posada happened when the Yanks were up or down by like 7 or 8 runs?...

Please, I knew Texas was a hitters ballpark as the Yankees stadium is with the short right field wall. Still, Young was the second in hitting in the majors while Posada was not among the top. You have to take advantage of this. What we need to do is find out their stats on the road. Then, go from there.

As for you thought: "I don't think controlling the running game is as important as it is touted to be"
Remember Dave Roberts and the Red Sox. Remember, the 2005 World Series Champ and the 'Ozzie's Ball'. With the new steroid agreement, you will see more teams using the running game.
Who is going to steal a base when they are down by 7 or 8 runs. I thought teams being down 7 or 8 runs need base runners instead risking being thrown out in meaninless bases stealing.

Finally, if someone post something, they should accept any feedbacks or critizism. I certainly spent the time to go over the lists and pointed out my inputs. If after reading my comments or somebody else comments, you decide or not decide to change your list, that is fine. If anyone do not like others to have a said, then state that no feedbacks are allowed.

Mattingly

12-31-2005, 08:16 AM

I've moved all the comments about catchers to the Top 10 Catchers thread (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=37328). Please continue the Posada-Pudge discussion, as well as all other catcher discussions, over there, please.

Finally, please be civil to one another. Even if you disagree, however strongly, with each other, please do so in a kind manner. Please discuss the points made by the person, and refrain from belittling the persons themselves.

Thanks. :)

digglahhh

12-31-2005, 10:02 AM

As for you thought: "I don't think controlling the running game is as important as it is touted to be"
Remember Dave Roberts and the Red Sox. Remember, the 2005 World Series Champ and the 'Ozzie's Ball'. With the new steroid agreement, you will see more teams using the running game.

So the 2004 Red Sox utilized small ball? News to me. The specific Dave Roberts circumstance would have been covered in under the "under specific circumstances" portion of my post. I don't care about what happened on one specific play in a playoff game, that's anedocotal. The Red Sox lead the league in R, BA, SLG, OBP, BB and 2B, they were 2nd in hits and fourth in HR and 11th in SB. That single event was very important, but I think Boston did just fine throughout the season without running.

As for Ozzie ball, the 2005 White Sox ranked fourth in the league in homers, and right in the midddle of the pack (7th) in SLG. The did not lead the league in stolen bases, though the did lead in getting caught. "Ozzie Ball" was really Scott Podsednik, other than Scott the highest SB total on the team was Aaron Rowand's 16.

Cubano100%

12-31-2005, 11:08 AM

So the 2004 Red Sox utilized small ball? News to me. The specific Dave Roberts circumstance would have been covered in under the "under specific circumstances" portion of my post. I don't care about what happened on one specific play in a playoff game, that's anedocotal. The Red Sox lead the league in R, BA, SLG, OBP, BB and 2B, they were 2nd in hits and fourth in HR and 11th in SB. That single event was very important, but I think Boston did just fine throughout the season without running.

As for Ozzie ball, the 2005 White Sox ranked fourth in the league in homers, and right in the midddle of the pack (7th) in SLG. The did not lead the league in stolen bases, though the did lead in getting caught. "Ozzie Ball" was really Scott Podsednik, other than Scott the highest SB total on the team was Aaron Rowand's 16.

How about the Marlins with Castillo and Pierre?

In 2005, the Yankees team ERA was 4.52 good for 22 among 30 teams. By the way, the Yanks scored 886 times in 162 games for 5.47 runs per game. So having a catcher that shutdown the opposing team running game was important. Posada is among the top catchers, but I do not think I will take him over Pudge.

Happy New Year!

Evangelion

12-31-2005, 11:39 AM

Please, I knew Texas was a hitters ballpark as the Yankees stadium is with the short right field wall. Still, Young was the second in hitting in the majors while Posada was not among the top. You have to take advantage of this. What we need to do is find out their stats on the road. Then, go from there.
I really don't understand what point you're trying to make... :noidea

Not being rude, just asking for clarification on what you were saying.

There's no difference between Young's offensive stat at home and on the road. You're welcome to check them, but you'll find the small difference in Batting Average, home run total, ect... in Young's stat when you compare home offensive stat to road offensive stat.

Defense side, digglahhh pointed out Young not being a good SS. His fielding percent has float around 975. range since being moved from 2B. It's 010. point lower than his percent when he was at 2B. Young has made 19 errors his first year at SS and 18 errors last year. While only making 27 errors at 2B in three years. Young isn't the greatest SS in the league and I think he would be suited back to first now that cry-baby Soriano has been shipped out. Looking at beyond that point, Young is probably the one of the best 2B in MLB.

Brannu

01-02-2006, 11:57 AM

1. Miguel Tejada
2. Derek Jeter
3. Omar Vizquel
4. Rafael Furcal
5. Jimmy Rollins
6. Michael Young
7. Edgar Renteria
8. Cesar Izturis
9. Jose Reyes
10. Jhonny Peralta

Mattingly

01-02-2006, 12:54 PM

1. Miguel Tejada
2. Derek Jeter
3. Omar Vizquel
4. Rafael Furcal
5. Jimmy Rollins
6. Michael Young
7. Edgar Renteria
8. Cesar Izturis
9. Jose Reyes
10. Jhonny Peralta
The voting is officially over, so this is mostly the post-vote discussion, in that people are talking about things they find important in a SS, as well as park factors and other stats.

Enjoy. :)

Yankee Legend

01-02-2006, 01:21 PM

The voting is officially over, so this is mostly the post-vote discussion, in that people are talking about things they find important in a SS, as well as park factors and other stats.

Enjoy. :)
uh no mattingly, the voting is not over and I believe i said its over on jan 5.

Astro

01-02-2006, 01:34 PM

Mattingly

01-02-2006, 05:43 PM

uh no mattingly, the voting is not over and I believe i said its over on jan 5.
Oh. :o :( Never mind. :D

ThePeach

01-03-2006, 05:55 AM

1. Derek Jeter
2. Miguel Tejada
3. Jhonny Peralta
3. David Eckstein
4. Michael Young
5. Rafeal Furcal
6. Edgar Renteria
7. Bobby Crosby
9. Jose Reyes
10. Nomar Garciaparra

Brannu

01-03-2006, 07:54 PM

Maybe I'm missing something but how can ANYONE rank CESAR IZTURIS above Carlos Guillen... or even in the top 10 at all

Please someone explain, he is a atrocious hitter who only plays good defense

Someone explain please

Some people would prefer defense in a shortstop, rather than one that hits for a high average or hits a lot of homeruns. And actually, the year before, he had an above average year at the plate. Last year he battled injury and ended his season horribly. Yet, defensively, not even mentioning that I believe that he can have 200 hits a season and steal over 30 bases a season, he is easily - in my opinion - in the top 5. 2nd only to Omar Vizquel. Offensively, he is not in the top 10, but - for me - his defense allows him to be there. :)

Astro

01-04-2006, 12:04 PM

Izturis is a HORRIBLE hitter... he had a career year in 2004... and he still only hit .288

He doesnt walk, he doesnt hit for power... he hasnt hit very well at any level

His defense is good but overrated, Guillen had a better fielding percentage than him in 2005

There is no logical reason Guillen shouldnt be in the top 10 of anyones list, let alone only in about 10% of the ones submitted

christian gentleman

01-05-2006, 02:03 PM

1. derek jeter (what current everyday, gold glove ss has 4 world series? still puts up numbers and leadership?) (and is captain?)
2. michael young
3. tejada (but what a complainer, not a winner)
4. furcal (big things coming)
5. vizquel (age, grace and poise)
6. renteria
7. izturis
8. eckstein
9. cabrera
10. garciaparra (would be higher except for injuries)

Yankee Legend

01-05-2006, 05:39 PM

Thank you all for participating. The results have been counted and here they are:

1. Miguel Tejada (154)
2. Derek Jeter (137)
3. Michael Young (128)
4. Rafael Furcal (100)
5. Jhonny Peralta (64)
6. Jimmy Rollins (62)
7. David Eckstein (58)
8. Edgar Renteria (43)
8. Omar Vizquel (43)
10. Khalil Greene (34)
11. Jose Reyes (24)
12. Orlando Cabrera (16)
12. Carlos Guillen (16)
14. Cesar Izturis (15)
15. Bobby Crosby (10)
15. Nomar Garciaparra (10)
17. Julio Lugo (7)
18. Angel Berroa (2)
19. Royce Clayton (1)
19. Juan Uribe (1)

Make sure you cast your ballot for the Current Top 10 Right Fielders Poll