Ichiro to hall of fame? [Archive]

Edgartohof

12-24-2005, 11:45 PM

Yes he should go to the HOF - especially if they count his Japanese stats.

He holds the single season hits record, which is a tremendous record (but S.S. records don't get you into the HOF all on their own - ask Maris). So we need to look at more than that. He also has compiled 200+ hits in his first 5 seasons, something few others have done (his 262 is something no other has done - and his 242 from '01 is still top 10 all-time). He is a speedster on the bases, with 30+ stolen bases all 5 years here (with a league-leading 56 in 2001). Was an/the integral part to the Mariner's amazing 216 win season in 2001 as well, in which he won both the MVP, and ROY in the same year. He is the best defensive outfielder playing today, with help from his speed. He also has an all-time great glove and arm (the arm especially - he could have been a pitcher - 90+ MPH!). And from that, Ichiro has won a Gold Glove award each year here in the the Majors. He also holds the distinction of being the first Japanese-born position player in the Majors - so with that and what he has done offensively and defensively, imo, he has already earned a spot in the HOF, and is starting to garner more support each season.

Just to continue with this a little more, he already has 2400+ hits (MLB + Japan), but if he had played in the Majors from age 20 (the age that he actually started full-time in Japan), with the aid of the longer MLB seasons (from 135(?) to 162), he would have possibly 2600+ hits, all by age 32! So by the end, he could easily have 3000+ hits (in 3 full seasons)! He is also an exciting player to watch. He can do so much. I love to watch him foul off 6 or 7 pitches, just waiting for his pitch, and hitting it sharply to the SS, and yet still making it to first safely with an infield single. He is known for his batting average, but when it dropped a bit this last season, what did he we see - a little increase in power, to help make up for it. Some will say that it wasn't a lot - and it wasn't, but an extra 4-5 triples, and 4-5 homeruns helps when you only are getting 206 hits. He brings a huge audience, on TV, and tourists coming to see him (from Japan AND the US). He also has helped other players come over, but the only "comparable" player is Matsui, but his move over here to the US, was another step to help "integrate" the MLB. So yes, he is HOF worthy in my book.

Zito75

12-28-2005, 07:29 AM

Would 2000 hits be enough to get him into the Hall of Fame?

I would say no. The 3000 benchmark seems to have been breached at a faster pace in the past 20 years than any years before it. Granted Ichiro has fantastic defensive skills, he'd need to average .330/ year to even be considered. Just my $.02.

Captain Cold Nose

12-28-2005, 07:33 AM

jalbright

12-28-2005, 08:40 AM

I wrote an article on this last year which is posted here: http://baseballguru.com/jalbright/analysisjalbright31.html

Jim Albright

kc5950

12-28-2005, 02:11 PM

no doubt ichiro is a historic player. he is the first japanese position player to play regularly for as long as he has in the field. however you cannot factor in his japanese numbers. yes it is a professional league but it is a lesser league than the major league baseball. Ichiro likely could have played in the major leagues his whole career and played well, however there are alot of guys who spent several years in AAA and succeeded and those numbers are not factored into hall of fame voting either. if ichiro plays until hes 40, he should have about 13 years under his belt, if he keeps getting 200 hits a year he will be close to 3000, he will likely have close to all of those years at or around 100 runs scored, he will likely have a career batting average well over .300, he will go down as one of the best defensive outfielders ever. hall of fame voters tend to look at sustained excellence as much or more than career numbers, he has 4 excellent years under his belt and 1 very good year. the one thing that could hold ichiro out if all those numbers arent enough however, is team success. if the mariners dont turn it around soon, ichiro will need to get on a serious contender, with close-to hall of fame numbers i believe a ring or two would push him over the top.

Zito75

01-08-2006, 05:04 PM

If Ichiro can get seven more years without a large dropoff, he's in. 12 years is all it took for Kirby Puckett to be a first ballot HOF'er. The Japanese League play would be noted on his HOF plaque, but when it comes to voting won't need to be taken into consideration.

Puckett won 2 World Series titles, drove in way more runs than Ichiro and was overall a more complete player. Ichiro would have to start stealing more bases along with bringing a title to Seattle for him to make a legitimate case.

Gjm130

01-29-2006, 02:12 PM

He deserves it, even though I don't like having his first name on the back of his jersey
It should be SUZUKI.....not ICHIRO

Edgartohof

01-29-2006, 03:51 PM

He deserves it, even though I don't like having his first name on the back of his jersey
It should be SUZUKI.....not ICHIRO

It's part of his aura. Suzuki was so common in Japan, so they put Ichiro on there. I personally like it, as Ichiro sounds a lot cooler (to me) than Suzuki. And because he had it like that in Japan, there was no reason to change that when he came to the US. But I'm glad to hear that you think he is Hall worthy as well.

KCGHOST

01-29-2006, 05:24 PM

johnny

01-29-2006, 06:25 PM

To even suggest a singles hitter after five years in the league should be put in the HoF is absurd. The guy has an .819 OPS as a corner OF and you want to put him in the HoF?? He has a lot more work to do. What he did in Japan stays in Japan.

Aside from the impressive stats he produced over the past five years, he was the first. A pioneer. That does have meaning but is hard to quantify.
As one who lived in Japan for a number of years with many relatives over there I can tell you that there was a lot of fear that their best everyday player couldn't make it here or would be an average player.
Many of us here in Seattle had a similar fear. But he demonstrated that a damn good player there could equate to a damn good player here. He made it easier for a Matsui and the rest to come here as everyday players.

Will he go into the HOF? It's early. Give the man more than 5 years to define his career. But in 5 years earning the MVP/ROY/5 Gold Gloves, breaking a record held 80 plus years and all isn't a bad start.
Watch his game on a regular basis and you see a very complete player. You will see why Pinella ranked Ichiro as the best rightfielder he ever saw.

Edgartohof

01-29-2006, 07:08 PM

To even suggest a singles hitter after five years in the league should be put in the HoF is absurd. The guy has an .819 OPS as a corner OF and you want to put him in the HoF?? He has a lot more work to do. What he did in Japan stays in Japan.

And what's your stance on Negro League players who never played a major league game in their careers, yet are already in the Hall?

I never said that his 5 years alone make him Hall worthy, but I do count his Japanese stats, because he has proven that he could have put up those kind of numbers in that time frame. If you can be the best player in Japan for 7+ years, (such as accumulating 7 CONSECUTIVE batting titles), and then do the same here in the US (not to mention being only 1 of 3 players with 2 seasons of 230+ hits, the all-time single season hits record, and MVP, an all-time great glove and arm, complimented by his 5 GG's in 5 years, his great work on the bases, his .332 BA, just to name a few), proves to most reasonable people that his Japanese numbers should count. Plus he is a huge ambassador for the game, being the first Japanese born Position Player in MLB history, bringing in a huge new market, and bringing in new talent from around the world, says to me that he has done enough on and off the field to deserve induction.

If you want to talk numbers, then lets look at his numbers. Through age 31, he has:

2408 hits
1350 runs
389 stolen bases
and if he plays another 5 years, will have numbers looking like:

3,000+ hits
1800 + runs
500+ stolen bases

and this is on top of the fabulous defense he has put up, garnering multiple GG's in both leagues, and is widely regarded as the best defensive outfielder of today.

So I am sorry that you feel this way about Ichiro, and I hope his continued success here in the MLB will help change your mind.

538280

01-29-2006, 07:21 PM

If we are counting his Japanese performance, then yes absolutely he should be in the Hall. If we're going by only his MLB performance, then he has a lot of work to do. He's only had 5 full seasons thus far and his 121 OPS+ as a corner OF is not HOF caliber. If he has about 7 more good years and puts up some pretty good career counting stats then he'll merit HOF induction to me.

KillaK

01-29-2006, 07:26 PM

To even suggest a singles hitter after five years in the league should be put in the HoF is absurd. The guy has an .819 OPS as a corner OF and you want to put him in the HoF?? He has a lot more work to do. What he did in Japan stays in Japan.

I agree that you shouldn't count his Japaneese numbers when discussing him- it is, after all, the NATIONAL baseball hall of fame (national, as in AMERICAN nation). However, he does hold a pretty esteemed record, which matters alot to voters. He's immensily popular in both Japan and America- He's with only a handful of other athletes that have been popular nationwide that play in Seattle (Griffey, ARod, the Unit and possibly Gary Payton are the only other ones I can think of). It's the hall of FAME, not just numbers.

Plus, he's the kind of guy who changes a team with what he brings to the table, even if all he can do at the dish is hit singles. In 2001, he singlehandedly uplifted a very mediocre Mariners lineup into being one of the best in baseball that season.

Will the voters think about all that in 10-15 years when he appears on the ballot? I don't know, although I have my doubts. A WS title or some other milestone (maybe 3000?? or a .325 career average??) would put alot of backing to his claim. Plus, perhaps the steroid era will turn voters off of sluggers and force them to hit 600+ homers to get in, and appreciate guys like Ichiro, who would have been a stud in any era.

So I say he's in (strike that- he'll BE in, if he keeps it up). He's one of few perennial All-Stars in the game, a guy that has been a monument of 21st century baseball- I'd only put Pujols, Bonds, and Alex Rodriguez and possibly David Ortiz and Manny Ramierez in the same or higher class than Ichiro.

ricky151

01-30-2006, 08:26 AM

Hands down the best defensive right fielder to ever play. You must count his japan stats because they have counted the Negro leagues stats in the past for other players. Good average, steals oh yeah didn't he break the single season hit record. I think those are enough reasons to be in.

SABR Matt

01-30-2006, 11:09 AM

Don't know about "hands down the best defensive RFer every to play"...that's a stretch IMHO. One of the top 10 or 15, perhaps...which is quite a compliment when you're talking about all time achievements...

Ashburn1

01-30-2006, 05:22 PM

I don't know why some people here equate Japanese stats with Negro League stats. It's apples and oranges. Completely different situations.

And Negro League numbers aren't recognized in any official way anyway, or else you would see Josh Gibson on the all-time HR leader board.

Ichiro's status as the biggest star in Japan will be considered by many voters, but no one in their right mind is going to consider him part of the 3000 hit club if he is only in it by combining his Japanese and MLB numbers.

All that said, if he gets to 2000 American, he'll be in. The fact that he started late will help his case.

SABR Matt

01-30-2006, 06:37 PM

He's already very close to 3000 htis if you include Japan. He has an outside shot at 3,000 American and is almost a lock for 2,000 American.

ElHalo

01-30-2006, 07:03 PM

Ichiro's status as the biggest star in Japan will be considered by many voters, but no one in their right mind is going to consider him part of the 3000 hit club if he is only in it by combining his Japanese and MLB numbers.

He wasn't; Hideki Matsui was. And Ichiro is ten times the player Matsui is.

Edgartohof

01-30-2006, 07:05 PM

He's already very close to 3000 htis if you include Japan. He has an outside shot at 3,000 American and is almost a lock for 2,000 American.

He should only need 4-5 seasons to reach 2000 hits here in the MLB, and if you include his Japanese stats, he only needs 3 seasons (592 hits) to reach 3,000+ career hits.

And if you want to get real theoretical, he has a shot at 4,000, if he stays another 8-9 years.

1278 hits - Japan
1130 hits - MLB
total - 2408 hits

4000-2408 = 1592
1592/190 = 8.4 seasons (9).

But that's just me thinking, and he doesn't need to reach such an astronomical number such as 4,000 hits, although he should end up with 2,000+ hits in the MLB, and 3400+ hits in his career (both leagues). If that ain't good enough for you, then I'm not sure what is.

Edgartohof

01-30-2006, 07:10 PM

I don't know why some people here equate Japanese stats with Negro League stats. It's apples and oranges. Completely different situations.

And Negro League numbers aren't recognized in any official way anyway, or else you would see Josh Gibson on the all-time HR leader board.

Well, then how do they decide if the player is Hall worthy or not? They look at the NUMBERS, and how people viewed them, etc...

Most of them didn't have ANY major league experience, yet they are in, even when the nubmers that people use are not entirely accurate. Yet Ichiro who HAS put up amazing numbers, and DOES have Major league experience, isn't worthy?

Honus Wagner Rules

01-30-2006, 07:26 PM

He wasn't; Hideki Matsui was. And Ichiro is ten times the player Matsui is.
No. Ichiro was the most famous and considered the best player when he played in Japan. I spent a month in Japan in July 2002 and everyone was still talking about Ichiro. I went there to teach English and share the Gospel. When I was at LAX I saw that Ichiro was on the cover of SI so I bought about 10 copies and gave them away to my Japanese students. Thet just loved it!!!

Honus Wagner Rules

01-30-2006, 07:29 PM

I think Ichiro gets into the HoF is the following happen:

2000-2300 hits
win 4-5 batting titles total
wins 6-8 GGs total
Finishes with a .320-.330 lifetime BA

I think the voters will take into account his time in Japan. He has won RoY and MVP honors plus he hold a major single season record. I think if the next five years are 90% of his first five years he gets in easily.

jalbright

01-30-2006, 07:34 PM

I can't see Ichiro's career average in the majors dropping below .300 (he'd have to have some seasons rather below that, and with his comparative lack of walks and lack of power, he wouldn't be too valuable at .270 or lower). If he maintains that .300 MLB career average, even low power guys do quite well at getting into Cooperstown after 2100 career hits. As the article I wrote indicates, 12 of 16 retired outfielders with a career average of .300 or more, a slugging percentage under .480 and 2100-2800 career hits are in the Hall. If Ichiro makes it to that level, I think he's a lock. By that standard, he's less than 1000 hits from the Hall even if we totally ignore his Japanese accomplishments.

Jim Albright

SABR Matt

01-30-2006, 08:26 PM

Yep...I agree with that assessment Jim...barring some catastrophic injury or sudden utter collapse of his hitting ability...Ichiro is destined to be the first Mariner in Cooperstown (other great Mariners sadly finished their careers on other teams where they got more attention...or in the case of Edgar Martinez...will probably take several tries before they get in)

leecemark

01-30-2006, 11:04 PM

--I don't think it would be appropriate to actually add Ichiro's Japanese numbers to his MLB ones and call him a 3,000 (or 4,000) hit guy. If he gets close to Hall territory here, then his accomplishments in Japan should be a significant boost to his candidacy though. Barring a complete collapse I think all Ichiro needs to do to make Cooperstown is put in his 10 years. Even a relatively empty .300 career average, combined with the ROY, MVP, 2 batting titles, however many GGs, the hits record and his pioneering role is a nice Hall of fame resume. 2,000 hits in a 10 year career is more impressive than 3,000 in 18-20 anyway.

Blackout

01-30-2006, 11:05 PM

He holds the single season hits record, which is a tremendous record (but S.S. records don't get you into the HOF all on their own - ask Maris). .

ask Hack Wilson

Ashburn1

01-31-2006, 11:55 AM

Well, then how do they decide if the player is Hall worthy or not? They look at the NUMBERS, and how people viewed them, etc...

Most of them didn't have ANY major league experience, yet they are in, even when the nubmers that people use are not entirely accurate. Yet Ichiro who HAS put up amazing numbers, and DOES have Major league experience, isn't worthy?

You must have misread my post. I said that Ichiro probably will (and should) get into the HOF.

KCGHOST

01-31-2006, 12:30 PM

And what's your stance on Negro League players who never played a major league game in their careers, yet are already in the Hall?

I never said that his 5 years alone make him Hall worthy, but I do count his Japanese stats, because he has proven that he could have put up those kind of numbers in that time frame.

So I am sorry that you feel this way about Ichiro, and I hope his continued success here in the MLB will help change your mind.

All the numbers you cite and projections you make include his Japanese numbers. They don't count. It is not my fault he didn't come over here sooner. It is not my fault he is a singles hitter playing a corner OF slot. Yes he is a great defender, but so was Dewey Evans and he isn't in the HoF and he had a 20 year career with 2400+ hits. It is impossible that when Ichiro's career is over Evans will still have more VORP, WARP, Win Shares, and RCAA.

You want to take Triple A numbers, mask them in some kind of morality clause, and say they "count". Simply because a guy shows he is an excellent major league hitter does not mean he gets to add his minor league numbers to his major league numbers.

Why don't I put Indian Bob Johnson in the HoF as well?? Simply adding his minor league numbers to his major leagues ones and, Voila, a bona fide HoFer instead of just a marginal candidate.

I have no problem with the Negro leaguers. First, they at least played in America. Second, they were denied any chance to play major league ball simply because they were Negroes. Its a form of atonement.

Ichiro was never held back from competing in the U.S. other than it wasn't practical and he didn't want to.

It's the National Baseball Hall of Fame, not the World HoF nor the International HoF. If you want in, come over here and earn it.

Pioneer status for Ichiro is ridiculous. What did he pioneer and what hardships did he face that were of major league baseball's making?? He has shown himself to be the best of a weak hitting group.

Don't get me wrong. I agree Ichiro is a superb player. He is a fine defender, an excellent baserunner, and a superb handler of the bat. On the other hand you should admit that as corner OF he is not exactly playing a premium defensive postion and his hitting is totally devoid of power. His career OPS is only 57 points above average. That is not HoF country for a RFer.

I have no problem with Ichiro. If he continues to throw up the numbers he has date for say 15 years then he deserves to be in the HoF.

wogdoggy

01-31-2006, 12:44 PM

have no problem with Ichiro. If he continues to throw up the numbers he has date for say 15 years then he deserves to be in the HoF.

i agree but my instincts tell me ichy has peaked.

Yankeebiscuitfan

01-31-2006, 01:41 PM

I think he is a fantastic player with a great arm.

And I know that I have said something completely different about players from Japan, regarding breaking records (should their numbers from Japan be taken with them to MLB?). But I don't think his records from Japan should influence his MLB records. Although the Japanese leagues are quite strong,the level overthere is lower than MLB's.

But besides this, I think his numbers should be sufficient to enter the HOF.

Edgartohof

01-31-2006, 03:30 PM

Ichiro was never held back from competing in the U.S. other than it wasn't practical and he didn't want to.

Pioneer status for Ichiro is ridiculous. What did he pioneer and what hardships did he face that were of major league baseball's making??

Actually, Japanese players are REQUIRED to play a certain amount of time (somewhere between 7-10 years) in the Japanese leagues before they are eligible to come to the U.S., so for most of them, it would be too late, and too unpractical to come over here. And as to hardships, he came over to a entirely differnt country on a different continent, where most people did not speak Japanese, and he spoke only limited English, and faced new players, pitchers that he never faced before, and did an amazing job, and did it with class. Maybe you don't see him as a pioneer, but why don't you go ask other fans here, or how about all of his fans in Japan?

jalbright

01-31-2006, 08:08 PM

I have no problem with Ichiro. If he continues to throw up the numbers he has date for say 15 years then he deserves to be in the HoF.

That's about another 10 years, and you should know darned well he's unlikely to meet that standard. The truth is, historically, guys with over 2900 MLB hits always make the HOF. I also can't find any cases where an outfielder with a career average over .300 and at least 2800 career hits has failed to make the Hall. It is also true that no matter the era (even the offense heavy early to mid 1890's or 1925-35), outfielders with .300 career averages and 2100-2800 career major league hits have made the HOF 12 out of 16 cases where none of the outfielders slugged over .480 for his career. If Ichiro can make the 2100 hit mark, he's qualified by that standard without giving him a blessed thing for his excellent performance in Japan--and he deserves at least a little. I mean, he didn't pop out of the womb able to hit like he did when he entered the majors--that skill was developed in Japan and honed for several years there before he came over--and he didn't have much choice until the last year or so of his time there. If you want to say Ichiro has to make it to 2100 hits and keep at least a .300 average, I understand your position. But asking for more than that is patently unfair.

Jim Albright

BoSoxDieHard34

01-31-2006, 08:49 PM

I wouldn't be surprised to see him there someday, but I think its too early to tell, he could have some kind of unforeseen injury in the future.

Naliamegod

02-05-2006, 01:40 PM

If Ichiro manages to survive well for the next 3-5 years then yes. I don't think he should get COMPLETE credit for his Japanese numbers (IE count them towards the stats he has in the MLB) but I do think his Japanese numbers should be considered. I'd treat them similarly to a guy who started late because he was in the PCL league during its prime years (IE Earl Averill). Throw in the whole "First Japanese position player in MLB" into the intangibles/misc. section and you get a solid HoF.

Seattle1

06-03-2006, 05:12 PM

I don't like having his first name on the back of his jersey
It should be SUZUKI.....not ICHIRO

I think other players have done it too, so he's not the first one.

Seattle1

06-03-2006, 05:16 PM

I wouldn't be surprised to see him there someday, but I think its too early to tell.

Yep, I agree, but he is obviously positioning himself very, very well for the HoF. I hope he can keep it up for another 10 years. And I hope he does it all with the Mariners! :gt

JimmieFoxxFan

04-27-2009, 05:04 PM

Of course...

Trickyhop

05-07-2009, 12:57 PM

He's in. The only reason he's marginal now is cause he plays for the M's who haven't reached the playoffs in for-freakin-ever. We can thank Bavasi for that, not Ichiro.

Seattle1

05-12-2009, 07:42 PM

Let's say he ends up with numbers something like this:

Hits: 2,700

Runs: 1,330

Doubles: 300

Triples: 100

Home Runs: 110

RBIs: 710

Walks: 570

Intentional Walks: 190

Stolen Bases: 475

Career Average: .325

Some pretty decent numbers, but nothing that is super-spectacular I guess. (I think he could actually potentially end up in the top ten all-time for IBBs, though 190 wouldn't do it.)

But then there's all the other factors. First full-time Japanese MLB position player. ROY & MVP his first year. All the ASGs & GGs. Beating George Sisler's record. Beating (hopefully) Wee Willie Keeler's record this year. Etc., etc., etc. If he gets Keeler's record this year, then plays at least ten years (and hopefully more like 12-15), and gets anywhere near the hypothetical projected numbers above, I don't see how he can not make it. Unless he tests positive for steroids. If that happened I wouldn't want him in the HOF.

Plus his impressive resume in Japanese baseball. I assume he will get at least a little bit of credit for that.

NJYankeeFan

05-12-2009, 08:31 PM

That's about another 10 years, and you should know darned well he's unlikely to meet that standard. The truth is, historically, guys with over 2900 MLB hits always make the HOF. I also can't find any cases where an outfielder with a career average over .300 and at least 2800 career hits has failed to make the Hall. It is also true that no matter the era (even the offense heavy early to mid 1890's or 1925-35), outfielders with .300 career averages and 2100-2800 career major league hits have made the HOF 12 out of 16 cases where none of the outfielders slugged over .480 for his career. If Ichiro can make the 2100 hit mark, he's qualified by that standard without giving him a blessed thing for his excellent performance in Japan--and he deserves at least a little. I mean, he didn't pop out of the womb able to hit like he did when he entered the majors--that skill was developed in Japan and honed for several years there before he came over--and he didn't have much choice until the last year or so of his time there. If you want to say Ichiro has to make it to 2100 hits and keep at least a .300 average, I understand your position. But asking for more than that is patently unfair.

Jim Albright

I think with such low standards for hits you should at least show some power or play a premium position. Plus, he really does not get on base an exceptional lot. A career OPS+ of 116 puts him in a league with Milton Bradley, Ken Caminiti, Eric Chavez, John Jaha, Thurman Munson, Roberto Alomar, Bill White, Alfonso Soriano, Paul Konerko and Lou Whitaker among others.

Some played challenging enough positions to warrant consideration. Munson's career was tragically cut short as well. But I do not think with that number out there, he should be in the HOF as a RF.

Sarcasmos

05-13-2009, 08:28 AM

I think with such low standards for hits you should at least show some power or play a premium position. Plus, he really does not get on base an exceptional lot. A career OPS+ of 116 puts him in a league with Milton Bradley, Ken Caminiti, Eric Chavez, John Jaha, Thurman Munson, Roberto Alomar, Bill White, Alfonso Soriano, Paul Konerko and Lou Whitaker among others.

Some played challenging enough positions to warrant consideration. Munson's career was tragically cut short as well. But I do not think with that number out there, he should be in the HOF as a RF.
Defense needs to be counted, too.

UZR has him at 78.8 runs above average since 2002. That's with time in both RF and CF. 7+ years, there is no data for 2001. That tacks on more than a whole extra win per season.

I'm not going to make any personal thoughts on his potential candidacy yet. He hasn't even reached the required 10 years yet. However, I do think this point should be added. :twocents:

Trickyhop

05-15-2009, 02:16 PM

philliesfiend55

05-16-2009, 09:25 AM

If Ichiro remains healthy and in the lineup fo the rest of the season, he may reach 2,000 hits by the final weeks of the season (in only 9 major league years for an average of about 222 or 223 hits per year). Add his 1250 plus hits in Japan and I think we're looking at our first combined International Hall Of Famer (experience in the USA plus at least one foreign country).
Despite his late start, don't count Ichiro out as far as reaching 3,000 hits in the American Major Leagues. The man is a "Hit Machine".

-philliesfiend55-

Seattle1

05-16-2009, 04:08 PM

Despite his late start, don't count Ichiro out as far as reaching 3,000 hits in the American Major Leagues.

I agree 3,000 MLB hits is a distinct possibility, but he's got to stay healthy and play into his 40s. The way he keeps in shape it certainly seems possible. We'll see!

:)

Edgartohof

05-26-2009, 10:44 PM

Ichiro; age 27-34

Games - 1280
Runs - 885
Hits - 1805
SB - 315 (82%)
BA - .331

Gwynn; age 27-34

Games - 1083
Runs - 639
H - 1434
SB - 169 (73%)
BA - .338

Matches up fairly well to a clear Hall of Famer . . .

And Ichiro is not done yet, as he should be reaching 2000 career hits in the MLB this season!

That's 2000 hits in LESS than 10 years - that is unheard of!!!

Trickyhop

06-02-2009, 11:51 AM

Well, he's got a 25 game hit streak, and if he continues to get hits like he is now, he can beat the 56 game hit streak! Honestly, if he gets this done along with another 200 hit season, IMO, he'd be a shoe in for the HOF.

dominik

06-04-2009, 04:03 PM

con:
-late start= not the longest career
-lack of power and walks limit his value for the team a little (lower OPS-esp. for an offensive position)
-"easy" defensive position

pro:
-has a batting title and hits vry consitently on a high level
-holds several hit records
-mvp title+allstar game in every year he played
-plus-plus defender on his position
-great fanbase and media coverage which will help him along with the fact that he was the first jap. star in the majors

I think he needs to keep the pace uo in this season and then add another 200 hit season(as I wrote in another thread). This will tie pete rose for most 200 hit seasons with the difference that Ichiro did that in his first ten years.

This will make him a lock and at this point his numbers in japan will help him. But he needs to put together ten really strong seasons(has 8 and a half already).