How will Damon be greeted at Fenway?

[VTSoxFan]

Maybe it's a little too soon to pose this question, some nerves a little too raw, but it's a good question. When Damon makes his return to Fenway next spring in the road grays of That Other Team, how will he be greeted when Carl Beane intones his name?

Will the crowd remember how he played for the Sox, drove in 94 runs in '04, the 6 RBI in Game 7, playing hurt, his chatting with the bleacher crowd, his joyfully scruffy appearance, his diving catches, his stolen bases?

Or will they only see the road grays and the spiky intertwined NY on his hat, his corporate haircut and shiny chin, and see horns where they once saw a halo?

What'll it be? Boos? Cheers? Some of each?

[RichardLikeWhoa]

I have mixed feelings...

it would be wrong to boo him cause he did put the final dagger
in the yanks in '04...

i could understand the fans boo'ing him because at one point
last spring Damon's exact words were "If things don't work out in boston
next year with a contract extension, then i'll call it a carreer and retire as a boston red sox. i'd rather retire then be in a yankees uniform".

i think i'd lean more towards the cheering him on side.. :confused:

[Paulmcall]

People might not recognize him after he gets his beard and hair cut off. I expect he'll get razed plenty.
What'd did you think that he played for the love of the game?:eek:

[RottenGazebo]

He will be cheered. The Sox fans will miss a fun player, and they will enjoy seeing him again.

[FlashGordon]

He will be cheered. The Sox fans will miss a fun player, and they will enjoy seeing him again.If he played for anyone else, I'd agree. If he thinks he's heard boos and nastiness from KC or Oakland, he hasn't heard anything yet. I'm sure he knows he'll get some, but I don't think he knows what he's in for. If the Sox rack up a losing season or don't replace his lead-off bat, it'll be even worse.

[KCGHOST]

He really didn't get booed in KC since he was traded before he could jump ship.

I expect the Red Sox Nation to rag him unmercifully. If they turned on Clemens, a giant of the game, imagine what they will do to Damon.

[Yankeebiscuitfan]

I think they will hug him............................................... .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .........to death.;)

[king_ghidora]

The reception will not be a warm one. This can't really be compared to any recent deals, with the possible exception of A-Rod. What gets Boston fans more than the leaving the team, or even the leaving the team for the Yankees, is the double-talk. A-Rod had said how excited he was to play for Boston, and then when it didn't go down and he went to the Yankees, he said that never in his "wildest dreams" did he think he'd be playing in pinstripes. Now Johnny is so freely trading in his signature look and personality to be part of the baseball team that looks like a crew of tax attourneys. And this after a whole year of talking about how much he loves Boston and the Red Sox fans and how he'd never want to play for the Yanks.

Pedro Martinez wouldn't be booed because the Sox didn't really make an honest effort, and Pedro felt insulted. D-Lowe wouldn't be booed for the same reason. But Damon has already burned his bridges. Every time A-Rod played in Seattle, either with Texas or New York, the fans would greet him with jeers and fists of Monopoly money thrown into the air like confetti. I expect that when Damon bats against Boston as well.

[FlashGordon]

Pedro Martinez wouldn't be booed because the Sox didn't really make an honest effort, and Pedro felt insulted. D-Lowe wouldn't be booed for the same reason.I agree D-Lowe wouldn't get booed. He was all but shoved out the door. Pedro, however, essentially taunted the Red Sox as a way to drive up his asking price. Had he taken Boston's last best offer, he would have been handsomely rewarded. For a bit of pocket change, however, he stuck with the Mets. But I know I wouldn't boo Pedro. He gave us way too much in his time in Boston to deserve that.

Now Red Sox ownership...I might boo them, but only if they create a complete fiasco next season. Here's hoping that the team can gel:hp .

[Omahasoxfan]

If the fans had an ounce of class in them they would clap for him...

In his first appearance showing respect to a KEY player in the changing of most of our lives for the better.

Cheer for him when he runs out there for the first time, clap and show him that you don't hate him, you just hate his team now.


What will really happen?
He will get booed and harassed the whole day by drunken beer swilling hooligans.

[pesky6]

If the fans had an ounce of class in them they would clap for him...

In his first appearance showing respect to a KEY player in the changing of most of our lives for the better.

Cheer for him when he runs out there for the first time, clap and show him that you don't hate him, you just hate his team now.


What will really happen?
He will get booed and harassed the whole day by drunken beer swilling hooligans.

I don't think it has anything to do with class. Is Damon any better for signing on with the team he said he wouldn't play for than us booing him?

A bit of irony. . . a friend of mine was cleaning out his collection of Entertainment Weekly magazines when he came across the one where Damon was on the cover with Jimmy Fallon and Drew Berrymore. He sent it to me and it arrived on Tuesday. Not sure if I'm going to list it on ebay or simply burn it.

[VTSoxFan]

I don't think it has anything to do with class. Is Damon any better for signing on with the team he said he wouldn't play for than us booing him?

A bit of irony. . . a friend of mine was cleaning out his collection of Entertainment Weekly magazines when he came across the one where Damon was on the cover with Jimmy Fallon and Drew Berrymore. He sent it to me and it arrived on Tuesday. Not sure if I'm going to list it on ebay or simply burn it.

In the spirit of honoring what is apparently closest to Johnny's heart, sell it and make a few bucks off from it.

[pesky6]

I have mixed feelings...

it would be wrong to boo him cause he did put the final dagger
in the yanks in '04...

i could understand the fans boo'ing him because at one point
last spring Damon's exact words were "If things don't work out in boston
next year with a contract extension, then i'll call it a carreer and retire as a boston red sox. i'd rather retire then be in a yankees uniform".

i think i'd lean more towards the cheering him on side.. :confused:

Richard, where did you find that quote? I'd love to know where you got it.

[Boston Boxer]

boo his butt endlessly. He turned his back on us after he said he never would...and signed with the enemy to boot.

[porchygirl]

I do not think Damon will be greeted with cheers.............had things been different, had he signed with another team based on the Red Sox dismantling of the team,maybe cheers. But considering the comment he made in May about never playing in NY..........and the sellout he is. NEVER will the fans cheer him. They will Boo him, as he has asked for it, but they should moon him to show him that he is an "well you know ;)"

[DoubleX]

I'm sure Damon will be booed and jeered mercilessly. But it takes two to tango, and Red Sox management did not make the effort necessary to keep Damon. They underestimated their leverage with Damon at every turn, and in the end if bit them in the backside. Such arrogance really smacks of Lucchino to me.

I don't fault the Red Sox management because I don't believe Damon is worth what the Yankees are paying him, but if you're going to blame Damon leaving, you have to blame the Sox management for not making the extra effort.

What one of you would not cast loyalty aside for an extra 12 mil? This is Damon's job, it is a business, and I imagine that any one of us if put in the same situation would bolt for 12 million dollars, especially in the face of disrespect and underestimation from the first team.

[porchygirl]

Well, that is a nice sentiment. However, I do not think (and correct me if I'm worng) Boras gave the Red Sox the last offer or a chance to counter offer. I don't think it would have been so devistating had he chose another team. He publicly stated he would never play for the Yankees and he knew they would come after him hard............also, I agree, many of us would take the 12mil difference into consideration, however many of us do not have the millions Damons has. At the point he, as well as other players are at, 12 mil is pocket change........loyalty is worth millions........and I'm sure the red sox may have countered to a nice mid way point as Damon claims he "settled" for since the "third team" offered more....so if it wasn't for money it was for fame, either way he IS bigger than life and he wanted to stay that way, unfortunatly it will backfire in his face as he has lost a big following of fans. I have always liked him, as a player, and I have followed his career as I have many players who have never worn a Phillie uniform but I for one will never pay to see him play again......unless of course, the Phillies end up playing the Yankees in the WS ;)...........bottom line is IF Jeter ever ran his mouth and said he'd never play for Boston, then signed with them in the same manner, Yankees fans would feel the same way! It's the bad blood rival that makes it even more of a devistation.

[DoubleX]

Well, that is a nice sentiment. However, I do not think (and correct me if I'm worng) Boras gave the Red Sox the last offer or a chance to counter offer. I don't think it would have been so devistating had he chose another team. He publicly stated he would never play for the Yankees and he knew they would come after him hard............also, I agree, many of us would take the 12mil difference into consideration, however many of us do not have the millions Damons has. At the point he, as well as other players are at, 12 mil is pocket change........loyalty is worth millions........and I'm sure the red sox may have countered to a nice mid way point as Damon claims he "settled" for since the "third team" offered more....so if it wasn't for money it was for fame, either way he IS bigger than life and he wanted to stay that way, unfortunatly it will backfire in his face as he has lost a big following of fans. I have always liked him, as a player, and I have followed his career as I have many players who have never worn a Phillie uniform but I for one will never pay to see him play again......unless of course, the Phillies end up playing the Yankees in the WS ;)...........bottom line is IF Jeter ever ran his mouth and said he'd never play for Boston, then signed with them in the same manner, Yankees fans would feel the same way! It's the bad blood rival that makes it even more of a devistation.

Why do you think Boras did not go back to the Red Sox? Why do you think Damon changed his mind? It is because he felt disrespected by the Sox. I'm not saying it was warranted or justified, but I'm just saying that's how the baseball business is. In Damon's mind, particularly with Boras whispering in his ear, he feels that the Sox had a whole season to lock him up, and could have made a greater effort to keep him after the season is over. In Damon's mind, he expected a certain show of effort from the Red Sox, and he didn't feel like they did their part. The Red Sox whole laissez faire approach really smacks of Lucchino's arrogance to me.

Also, it is easy for us mere fans and mortals to say that we wouldn't take 12 mil extra to switch sides, but like I said, this is a business, this is Damon's job. If we were in that position, if we played the game for our living instead of just had it as a hobby and distraction, I would bet anyone of us would bolt teams for 12 mil extra. That is no pocket change, and these guys rely on that big pay (as ridiculous as that is) to set them up for life. I'm just saying imagine if you were Damon or any baseball player in Damon's position, not imagine if you were you in Damon's position.

As for Jeter, Yankee fans would be in up arms, but the Yankees would never allow Jeter to leave like that. They would make sure to lock him up and make him feel respected. Plus, Jeter means more to the Yankees than Damon to the Sox. Damon had a lot of character in Boston and he's a terrific leadoff hitter, but he was imported in the first place, and he is more easily replaceable than Jeter.

Bottom line, if you're going to blame Damon for leaving for 13 mil a year, then blame the Sox for not making that kind of effort during the long period when they had a chance. I think Sox fans should consider it a blessing in some ways - Damon is not worth the money he was seeking, is not worth the money he received, and he would not have been worth the money had the Sox gone the extra mile. If anything, one would think that if the Sox really wanted to bring Damon back, they would have upped their efforts and became more proactive when Damon declined arbitration. That should have been a message to the team, but instead, the team sat on its behind. If the fans really want Damon to be there, then you have to hold management just as responsible for letting him go (even though it may have been the wiser desicion for the long run). The Sox will find an answer for CF, it might take a year or two, but it will cheaper and younger than Damon, and as that player finds his groove, Damon will be declining and just be another fat contract on the Yanks that everyone is eager to get off the books.

[porchygirl]

OK, good points.........

[DoubleX]

OK, good points.........

Thanks! :)

[Pudge 75]

I don't know why, but Damon's departure to the Yankees is p*ssing me off more than any other's before him. Something about his arrogance makes me think that the Sox are better off without him. I have no logical explanation for why I'm feeling this way. Any thoughts?

[pesky6]

OK, good points.........

A Yankee fan telling Red Sox fan who we should be blaming. Great :rolleyes:

[porchygirl]

Pesky, I don't see it that way..........He (Double X) made some very good points. It's a forum and we do debate........Have I changed my mind? Nah, I still think he's a traitor and I still feel the way I posted. But, Double X does put some good points on the forum.......it's very unfortunate and it's something I have blamed the Red Sox, Johnny and especially Boras. Istill don't get it.

My son gave me my gift early........I got a plaque with an autographed 8x10 of Johnny with six baseball cards (4 red sox 2 KC) around it and it says Johnny Damon Boston red Sox! He bought it BEFORE the trade and was upset I'd hate it............I love it because he knows I collect and he bought it with love....who knows maybe it will be a collectable worth something someday,lol

[wilkerson_rulz-06]

Yup, there will be a mixture of love and anger in their cheers(and boos).
Why would they ALL cheer on a player that signed with their arch-rival team because of money. Oh, and Damon also said he "needed a 'change' "

[Mattingly]

Oh, and Damon also said he "needed a 'change' "
Ahhhhhhhh, you people have become a little deaf these days. Damon actually said, "I just needed more spare change", but he muttered it under his breath. :D :crazy :p :waving

[Jake83]

This isnlt anything against the people of New England but there is no way they will cheer for him. He will be booed, cursed and have objects thrown at his direction. These are the same people who booed Larry Bird and Roger Clemens

[VTSoxFan]

These are also the same people who all but threw roses at Derek Lowe, Dave Roberts and Orlando Cabrera, and welcomed them with loving ovations. The thing is, they didn't leave by their own volition, and they never dissed the fans in a way it is perceived that Damon has dissed us. They were not insincere, and belie thier own words with their actions.

If he'd gone to any other team, he might be booed but he wouldn't be vilified. Vilification comes with the pinstripes. He knows that, and I hope he's not surprised when he finds himself about as welcome in Boston now as a case of the bubonic plague.

[bluejaysfan]

Anything is possible, didn't the Red Sox fans cheer Wade Boggs when he returned to Fenway for the first time. And I seem to recall him signing with the Evil Empire as well.

[wamby]

I have to admit that I was a little surprised that Damon didn't re-sign with Boston. In Kansas City he was a nobody. In Oakland he was a nobody. In Boston He reached his potential as an idiot. In New York he will be a nobody.

I thin any cachet he had as a cult figure in Boston is gone now and he will never be able to get it back.

[Evangelion]

Pedro, however, essentially taunted the Red Sox as a way to drive up his asking price. Had he taken Boston's last best offer, he would have been handsomely rewarded. For a bit of pocket change, however, he stuck with the Mets. But I know I wouldn't boo Pedro. He gave us way too much in his time in Boston to deserve that.
Pedro got the extra year he was seeking from the New York Mets. You can't really blame him for leaving since he was looking for the extra year the Red Sox management did not want to give him. I think it would be a mix reaction for Pedro when he return to Fenway, which could happen this year since the Mets are coming into Fenway this year.

I would not boo him. He left, because was offer the extra year he desired. He also went to a team that would not danger the Red Sox chance of winning unless it was in the World Series. Also, like you said, he did far too much for us during his time in Boston.

As for Damon, I would boo him. Now, I know the fault go to Red Sox management for showing how interested they were in bring Damon back. If I was Damon, I would have also felt offend by that small three year contract they offer. So, management handle the signing of Damon very poorly and the end result was him walking to New York.

My dislike for Damon was his constant talk of not playing for the Yankees just before Spring Training. If Damon just didn't speak the non-sense he did, then I would not be so bitter toward him, but he endlessly said he would not play for New York and it's not about the money and he up signing a deal for more money, not years; which I thought he was looking for and signed with the Yankees, where he'll cause the most harm to us.

Damon a flip-flopper. He was bashing the Yankees last Spring Training with the Red Sox and he has jumped ship and joined the Yankees. I really don't like him all that much. Regardless of all he has done, he has joined the the Red Sox bitter rivals the Yankees. While I respect what he has done for the Red Sox in the past, I will not like him any longer.

I would not cheer him ever. As for Boggs, I believe Red Sox management just let him walk out the door, because they thought Wade Boggs was done, which he obviously wasn't. Boggs batted a pathetic .259, very uncommon for Boggs and management thought he was done. I don't recall him being liked going to the Yankees, but Red Sox made zero effort to bring Boggs back. While management wanted Damon back, but they did a poor job at it.

Sorry for very long post.:laugh

[VTSoxFan]

Welcome to the boards, Evangelion! :waving I think you'll like it here. And don't worry about long posts; I've been known to rattle on at length. One old friend even called me long-winded once, though he swore it was a compliment! :laugh

[VTSoxFan]

Pedro got the extra year he was seeking from the New York Mets. You can't really blame him for leaving since he was looking for the extra year the Red Sox management did not want to give him. I think it would be a mix reaction for Pedro when he return to Fenway, which could happen this year since the Mets are coming into Fenway this year.


Actually, one report I read was that after the winter meetings last year ('04) Theo & co did actually match the Mets' offer. But Pedro had already reached a handshake deal with Minaya and (unlike David Wells) wouldn't go back on his word. I don't think the Sox ever really wanted him back, or they would have extended his deal before he became a FA.

If I were there to see Pedro's return to Fenway I'd cheer him loud and long. He carried the team and was the only realistic, if slender, thread of hope for most of his tenure with Boston.

[Jordan]

These are also the same people who all but threw roses at Derek Lowe, Dave Roberts and Orlando Cabrera, and welcomed them with loving ovations. The thing is, they didn't leave by their own volition, and they never dissed the fans in a way it is perceived that Damon has dissed us. They were not insincere, and belie thier own words with their actions.

If he'd gone to any other team, he might be booed but he wouldn't be vilified. Vilification comes with the pinstripes. He knows that, and I hope he's not surprised when he finds himself about as welcome in Boston now as a case of the bubonic plague.

exactly, Damon turned his back on the team when he was needed by them the most, and did exactly what he said he wouldn't do in addition to abandoning all of the fans and the legendary persona that he has built in Boston. In the case of cabrera, lowe, and Roberts, they were not pursued by the sox and in Roberts' case, he was traded to the Padres. Damon up and left for the Yankees, a team he has said he would rather retire before play for and then said that he "tried" to stay with the red sox. There's no such thing as trying when it comes to free agency. All it boils down to is that he wanted more money so he signed with the most hated team he could think of and then basically denies the Red Sox existence afterwards. He'll be booed, sure he was instrumental in the red sox playoff run, but not until game 7 of the ALCS, (we forget the MAJOR slump he had leading up to that game) and then the leadoff homer in game 4. Some people will cheer him for what he has done. The others will boo him for the same reason.

[Cubsfan97]

I would cheer him, just like I would cheer a former Cubs player as a White Sock. like someone said earlier its the team you hate not the player. Heres a question though, Do yuo cheer him still if he hits a few game winning home runs against you or drives in game winning RBIs? What about the playoffs? What if he creams you there? In that case I think it would be hard to answer. I would assume a lot of boos though.

[pesky6]

As for Damon, I would boo him. Now, I know the fault go to Red Sox management for showing how interested they were in bring Damon back. If I was Damon, I would have also felt offend by that small three year contract they offer. So, management handle the signing of Damon very poorly and the end result was him walking to New York.

My dislike for Damon was his constant talk of not playing for the Yankees just before Spring Training. If Damon just didn't speak the non-sense he did, then I would not be so bitter toward him, but he endlessly said he would not play for New York and it's not about the money and he up signing a deal for more money, not years; which I thought he was looking for and signed with the Yankees, where he'll cause the most harm to us.

Good post. One thing I would like to say, though, is that while the 3 year, $27M contract was a bit small, it's not like the Red Sox were going to offer him 4 years/$52M like the Yankees did right from the start. I think the 4 year, $40M contract was more than fair and enough to keep him around if he really wanted to stay. Let's face it--it's not like that extra $3M a year is going to be that much of a lifestyle-changer.

[Evangelion]

Also, you don't offer your best offer first. I think Damon would have been intelligent enough to go back to Red Sox after the Yankees offer 52$ deal for four years to see if they would counter and call the Red Sox bluff not to pay him more than 40$ for four years, which I think the Sox would have caved in and gave him 48$ for four years, though I think that would be over-paying for Damon.

Of course, Damon might dislike management lack of interest, but if he love this city and it's fans so much, would he at least go back to the Red Sox to let them counter 52$ deal the Yankees offer and call the Red Sox bluff. If you were Damon and looked at how the Sox would stand if you sign with the Yankees, they would have looked bad if they didn't counter the deal at the point and I think Damon would have got the money he seek in Boston and maybe the fifth year.

Of course, this is all speculation that does not matter any longer. :laugh

[runningshoes]

He will be cheered. The Sox fans will miss a fun player, and they will enjoy seeing him again.

Not a chance.

[AVA8]

As Damon was a Sox fan favorite, I can see why some people would be upset about his leaving and going to not only the AL East but the Yanks.
People have also mentioned about his comments about never playing for the Yanks in previous years; however, what did you expect him to say, especially when he was on the Sox? I would take those comments not as his being dishonest but as him having respect and appreciation for Sox fans. Sox fans should only be complimented because this guy really liked playing in Boston for such great fans as you all are. Baseball is a business but a tough one because we can get so emotionally involved with the game we love.

Does anyone else in Sox Nation share this sentiment or am I way off base?

As a side note and Yanks fan, I was completely against his signing and would have been happy to see Bubba in CF.

[VTSoxFan]

On one level, yes, I can see that. The rational part of me that knows that off the field, baseball is a business like any other, and has absolutely nothing to do with emotional issues such as loyalty, betrayal, etc etc. It is all about the money.

The lifelong Sox fan side of me feels something entirely different, of course. He took the money, as if $12M on top of $72M ($32M from the Sox, the $40M from the Yanks before the additional $12M that turned him), on top of whatever he made playing for KC and Oakland, is going to do him any good. He turned his back on the support and pleas and affection of all of us to follow that extra $12M down to NY.

I won't be so foolish as to say "good riddance"; I will always remember the good that he did for this team, playing hurt, running through walls (and other players) and just doing his utmost for his teammates and the fans. We'll never forget the dives and the leaps, and the overall cheer he brought.

I think he will soon realize that though he'll have a bunch of money, he is far poorer for the loss of the goodwill he sold for $12M.

[pesky6]

As Damon was a Sox fan favorite, I can see why some people would be upset about his leaving and going to not only the AL East but the Yanks.
People have also mentioned about his comments about never playing for the Yanks in previous years; however, what did you expect him to say, especially when he was on the Sox? I would take those comments not as his being dishonest but as him having respect and appreciation for Sox fans. Sox fans should only be complimented because this guy really liked playing in Boston for such great fans as you all are. Baseball is a business but a tough one because we can get so emotionally involved with the game we love.

Does anyone else in Sox Nation share this sentiment or am I way off base?

As a side note and Yanks fan, I was completely against his signing and would have been happy to see Bubba in CF.

From my point of view, you're waaaaay off base. First of all, it's not "some people" who are upset. I'd say it's at least 80% of the Nation, maybe even more. As far as his comments about not playing for the Yankees--that's essentially what he said, so to me, that's a stab in the back. I put some of the blame on ownership and mgmt, but ultimately it was Damon's decision to do what he did.

Ultimately, he will make more money in NY than in Boston, but he will never be as popular or as beloved as he was with RSN. In NY, he'll be just another $10M+ player. His choice will become clear on May 1.

[.406]

put it this way, i already threw away my damon jersey

[AVA8]

406 & Pesky: i know its not the same but i almost know how you feel. andy pettitte left beasically cause we didnt go after him hard enough, and he was one of my favorite yanks. (and still is) would you feel differently if he hadnt gone to the yanks, just to another AL east team, AL team or the NL? or is your anamosity so strong because he went to us?

Do you still cheer for Nomah?

[D-No]

I'm not taking Damon off the hook, but he's not totally to blame. The Sox initial offer to Damon was 3yr/27M...That's saying he was worth a million less a year than Edgar Renteria. If I'm JD, I'm feeling a bit hurt by that offer. To further widen the rift, when agent Scott Boras received the offer, he was brusquely asked to have an answer by Christmas Eve. I'm no fan of Scott Boras, but the man is entirely too good at what he does to be buffaloed by a Red Sox official who wants to be percieved as a hard core action man. If the Sox had offered Damon a fair market deal from the outset, rather than deploying an insulting slap-and-tickle form of negotiation, we wouldn't have to look at JD's smooth and beautiful face in pinstripes.
As far as a fan reaction, I anticipate a mixed bag, boos from the fans who forgot his contributions to the team (which should be acknowledged in my humble opinion), and cheers from those who were fans up to the point when JD signed with the Yankees.

[pesky6]

406 & Pesky: i know its not the same but i almost know how you feel. andy pettitte left beasically cause we didnt go after him hard enough, and he was one of my favorite yanks. (and still is) would you feel differently if he hadnt gone to the yanks, just to another AL east team, AL team or the NL? or is your anamosity so strong because he went to us?

Do you still cheer for Nomah?

Of course we would have felt differently. Going to the Mariners or the Dodgers is a lot different than going to your arch-rivals. That's one area that Yankee fans can't seem to grasp because they've never had anyone jump ship like that to the Red Sox. Your blood would be boiling just as much as ours if Pettitte had gone to the Red Sox instead of the Astros. Personally, I applaud his decision (and Clemens as well) because at least they took family into consideration. That's the big difference between Damon and those two.

As far as Nomah goes, yeah, I still cheer for him. I'm especially excited because he, Mueller, Lowe, and Grady Little will be with the Dodgers, so I'll be able to see them a lot since the Rockies are in the same division.

If any of them go to the Yankees, then all bets are off.

[Mattingly]

Of course we would have felt differently. Going to the Mariners or the Dodgers is a lot different than going to your arch-rivals. That's one area that Yankee fans can't seem to grasp because they've never had anyone jump ship like that to the Red Sox. Your blood would be boiling just as much as ours if Pettitte had gone to the Red Sox instead of the Astros. Personally, I applaud his decision (and Clemens as well) because at least they took family into consideration. That's the big difference between Damon and those two.

As far as Nomah goes, yeah, I still cheer for him. I'm especially excited because he, Mueller, Lowe, and Grady Little will be with the Dodgers, so I'll be able to see them a lot since the Rockies are in the same division.

If any of them go to the Yankees, then all bets are off.
I won't try saying I know how you feel, because quietly frankly, I don't. However, in 1998, we almost did when Bernie said he wanted to go to Boston. This likely to get a bigger contract.

Unlike Pettitte and Damon, Bernie said he wanted to remain with his old team.

[VTSoxFan]

Ah, but Johnny did say he wanted to stay in Boston. Last May he said he'd rather retire than play for the Yankees. Of course it was just lip service.

The front office did low-ball the offer, and that was pretty short-sighted (stupid) of them. But one would think that a player wholly dedicated to his team and the fans that supported him beyond his wildest dreams would have thought twice about selling this support for an extra $12M. The Sox' last offer was $10M a year. Is the extra $3M a year really going to make that much of a difference to him?

The Mastercard commercials are right -- some things are priceless. Johnny's going to find that out.

As a point of mitigation, he at least did tape a video thank-you for the fans, and it was played at the Boston Baseball Writers' dinner. The report in the paper said "it received a tepid response."

[DoubleX]

Ah, but Johnny did say he wanted to stay in Boston. Last May he said he'd rather retire than play for the Yankees. Of course it was just lip service.

The front office did low-ball the offer, and that was pretty short-sighted (stupid) of them. But one would think that a player wholly dedicated to his team and the fans that supported him beyond his wildest dreams would have thought twice about selling this support for an extra $12M. The Sox' last offer was $10M a year. Is the extra $3M a year really going to make that much of a difference to him?

The Mastercard commercials are right -- some things are priceless. Johnny's going to find that out.

As a point of mitigation, he at least did tape a video thank-you for the fans, and it was played at the Boston Baseball Writers' dinner. The report in the paper said "it received a tepid response."

Damon's saga is pretty interesting to me (I'm still not fond him as a player though).

From a sensible standpoint, Damon is not worth 13 mil a year, especially for four years given his age. I'm not a Boston fan, so I can't talk about the feeling of betrayal and all of that, but from a business perspective, the Red Sox made the sensible decision. They offered him 10 mil a year, which IMO, is still at 2-3 mil more than he's worth. Likewise, from a business standpoint, I can't blame Damon for taking the extra money from a team that was stupid enough to give him that much (even to these wealthy baseball players, 3 million more a year is nothing to sneeze at).

I think in the longterm, it would have been a worst decision for the Red Sox to up their offer for Damon. Like I said, he's not worth that kind of money, and especially not worth it for 4 years. If I were a Red Sox fan, I would think that is money that could be well spent addressing other areas. Seriously, let's just say it would have taken the Sox 12 mil a year to keep Damon (meaning he was given a 1 mil hometown discount), that 12 mil could be spent on 2 other players that are probably just about as good as Damon. Loyalty and memories aside, I'd rather have two good players for that money, then one overrated and vastly overpaid player that will likely hit his decline (and perhaps major, given his skillset) during the length of this overly exorbitant contract.

Like I said, I'm not a Red Sox fan, so I can't empathize with the hurt of losing Damon. But I think if you try to stand back and look at the loss of Damon logically and from a business sense, it'll be for the best for the Sox because Damon is not worth the money he was seeking, is not worth the money he received, and is not even worth the money the Sox offered to him. The Sox can find better areas and better player value with that money now and maybe bring in some new players that will become fan favorites, while Damon will become just another overpaid and overhyped player lost in the jungle of overhyped and overpaid players that is the Yankees.

Just picture it three years from now, when the Yanks are paying a declining and underperforming Damon, 13 mil, while the Red Sox are using the money they saved on two quality players who are not being vastly overpaid to underperform.

[VTSoxFan]

I know that $10M/y was a perfectly reasonable offer for the Sox to make. I'm not saying that they should have upped the offer. Thier mistake was the initial offer.

They had said repeatedly that re-signing Johnny was a high a priority this year as re-signing Tek was last year, and yet they did not go after him in the same manner. Did they lowball their initial offer to Tek? I don't think so. (Of course the composition of the front office was very different last year. Last year we had a GM.) Also, unlike Tek, Johnny actively entertained offers from other teams, despite his professed longing to remain with Boston, once the Sox had offered him "only" $9M/y. Tek reportedly told his agent, the selfsame Scott Boras, that he wanted to stay in Boston, and told him to get the deal done. Johnny went the other way, and said "I'll let my agent decide." That's like putting the fox in charge of the henhouse. The more the player gets, the more the agent gets, and of course an agent, given carte blanche, will seek the highest possible offer and convice the player that that is the way to go. Any agent would do that. Boras does it with a vengeance.

Of course it's a business, and the front office has to be totally unsentimental when they make these decisions. But they put their foot in it with the initial offer. And then Johnny compounded the mess by putting Boras completely in charge. And then choosing NY over Boston... I really have no intention of causing any insult to you, XX, but... The Yankees? You have no idea what a body-blow that is to Sox fans.

I always liked the way Johnny played for us, and willl never forget the good he did for this team. But there will now always be this dark cloud over how his sojourn in Boston ended. That shouldn't be, but it is, and it's a crying shame.

[DoubleX]

I know that $10M/y was a perfectly reasonable offer for the Sox to make. I'm not saying that they should have upped the offer. Thier mistake was the initial offer.

They had said repeatedly that re-signing Johnny was a high a priority this year as re-signing Tek was last year, and yet they did not go after him in the same manner. Did they lowball their initial offer to Tek? I don't think so. (Of course the composition of the front office was very different last year. Last year we had a GM.) Also, unlike Tek, Johnny actively entertained offers from other teams, despite his professed longing to remain with Boston, once the Sox had offered him "only" $9M/y. Tek reportedly told his agent, the selfsame Scott Boras, that he wanted to stay in Boston, and told him to get the deal done. Johnny went the other way, and said "I'll let my agent decide." That's like putting the fox in charge of the henhouse. The more the player gets, the more the agent gets, and of course an agent, given carte blanche, will seek the highest possible offer and convice the player that that is the way to go. Any agent would do that. Boras does it with a vengeance.

Of course it's a business, and the front office has to be totally unsentimental when they make these decisions. But they put their foot in it with the initial offer. And then Johnny compounded the mess by putting Boras completely in charge. And then choosing NY over Boston... I really have no intention of causing any insult to you, XX, but... The Yankees? You have no idea what a body-blow that is to Sox fans.

I always liked the way Johnny played for us, and willl never forget the good he did for this team. But there will now always be this dark cloud over how his sojourn in Boston ended. That shouldn't be, but it is, and it's a crying shame.

So do you think the Sox should have upped their offer? Or do you think Damon should have accepted the 3 million less?

[pesky6]

I always liked the way Johnny played for us, and willl never forget the good he did for this team. But there will now always be this dark cloud over how his sojourn in Boston ended. That shouldn't be, but it is, and it's a crying shame.

That's why I think he's going to regret his decision.

[VTSoxFan]

So do you think the Sox should have upped their offer? Or do you think Damon should have accepted the 3 million less?

I'm saying that the whole process was monumentally screwed up on both sides, enabling Boras to act as the wedge between Johnny and the club. Instead of going hard after Johnny as they had with Tek, the club tried to finesse the deal, to play it like a hand of pokwer when THEY KNEW they didn't have all the cards they needed. Instead of directing Boras to exhaust ALL possibilities with the Sox before looking elsewhere, Johnny gave Boras a free hand to squeeze every team for the largest possible payout.

IF it had been handled the way Varitek's situation was, the Sox would have made it unequivocally clear that they wanted to retain Johnny. They would have asked Francona and Tek and Schilling to lobby Johnny to stay. If Johnny had truly wanted to make every possible effort to stay, he would have given the Sox every possible chance.

It just didn't happen that way, and I think the foundation for this unhappy parting was laid when Theo quit. Not that he would have offered more interms of years or dollars, but I think he would have put more effort into convincing Johnny that this is where he wanted to be.

Moot point now; water under the bridge.

[DoubleX]

I'm saying that the whole process was monumentally screwed up on both sides, enabling Boras to act as the wedge between Johnny and the club. Instead of going hard after Johnny as they had with Tek, the club tried to finesse the deal, to play it like a hand of pokwer when THEY KNEW they didn't have all the cards they needed. Instead of directing Boras to exhaust ALL possibilities with the Sox before looking elsewhere, Johnny gave Boras a free hand to squeeze every team for the largest possible payout.

IF it had been handled the way Varitek's situation was, the Sox would have made it unequivocally clear that they wanted to retain Johnny. They would have asked Francona and Tek and Schilling to lobby Johnny to stay. If Johnny had truly wanted to make every possible effort to stay, he would have given the Sox every possible chance.

It just didn't happen that way, and I think the foundation for this unhappy parting was laid when Theo quit. Not that he would have offered more interms of years or dollars, but I think he would have put more effort into convincing Johnny that this is where he wanted to be.

Moot point now; water under the bridge.

I don't remember exactly, but the Red Sox approach to Damon did look to me to be very similar to their approach to Varitek last year. The Sox put out a generous offer and sat on it and on the assumption that no one else would give Varitek that kind of deal. In the end, it worked out for the Sox as they were right about Varitek - no one else would give him the deal they were. But it took the Sox almost two months to sign Varitek, which was actually a few weeks longer than Damon was a free agent before the Yanks signed him. In both Varitek's and Damon's cases, the Sox allowed the players to linger deep into free agency, on the hope that the market would dry up and that they would return to the Sox. They got lucky with their gamble with Varitek, but not with Damon. I wouldn't be surprised if on December 23rd, 2004, Varitek got a better offer from another team, and he would have bolted, just as Damon did.

[VTSoxFan]

The difference between Tek and Damon was that Tek did not play one hand against the other. He made it abundantly clear that Boston was where he wanted to be, and told his agent what to do -- instead of allowing his agent to run the show.

Anyway.... this poor old dead horse has been beaten until it's unrecognizable.

[DoubleX]

The difference between Tek and Damon was that Tek did not play one hand against the other. He made it abundantly clear that Boston was where he wanted to be, and told his agent what to do -- instead of allowing his agent to run the show.

You think? I remember there being rumors here in New York that both the Yankees and Mets were interested in Varitek. Often those kind of rumors are planted by a player's agent. Varitek had to wait two months to sign with the Sox, that shows to me that he was not overly impressed with the Sox's offer and was open to seeing what else was out there. If he was so serious about returning only to the Sox, a deal would have been hammered out much earlier in free agency. I really believe, that like Damon, if after waiting nearly 2-months in free agency for the Sox to up their offer, if another walks buy and offered Varitek 3 million more per year, he would have taken it at that point. In Varitek's case, there really just wasn't legitimate interest outside of the Sox in signing a 33 year old catcher to a long-term deal; but the fact that he was a free agent for nearly two-months shows to me that he was waiting to see if a better deal was out there. It didn't come for him, because again, he is a 33 year old catcher. However, it came for Damon, and he took it, and I wouldn't be surprised that if came for Varitek last year after two months, he woud have taken it as well.

[VTSoxFan]

Does it matter anymore? I know my memory is not perfect, but the way I remember it is that both Tek and the club made a more concerted effort to keep him in Boston than was put forth in Damon's case. The determination to come to an agreement seemed to be lacking this time around on both sides.

It doesn't matter anymore; what's happened has happened, and what might have happened but didn't is pure speculation. The truth of the matter is that for all the good Johnny did for us for the last 4 years, very few will be able to see past his uniform and corporate haircut, and people will let him know that they don't appreciate him any more. Which is a shame, really. He's a good player, and played his heart out for us, but in the future when his name is mentioned, his turn to the Yankees will invariably be one of the first things said about him.

Sad but true. :(



Man, I wish there was a game to watch and talk about!

[DoubleX]

All true. But if/when you get past this feeling of betrayal, I think you might see the Sox are much better off (well, depending on how they use that money).

[SoxSon]

From a sensible standpoint, Damon is not worth 13 mil a year, especially for four years given his age. I'm not a Boston fan, so I can't talk about the feeling of betrayal and all of that, but from a business perspective, the Red Sox made the sensible decision. They offered him 10 mil a year, which IMO, is still at 2-3 mil more than he's worth.

Not to dredge too much of this up again, but I disagree a bit about Damon's worth (particularly this offseason). Four years is a ridiculous length to offer to Johnny from anyone, I agree, but in my opinion, Damon's shorter-term, monetary value is as a lead-off hitter. Solid lead-off hitters are few and far between, as NY is aware. This talent is also, ironically, the same reason that Johnny isn't worth a wager on four years. I think 10 million a year was Johnny's low-end this off-season.

[DoubleX]

Not to dredge too much of this up again, but I disagree a bit about Damon's worth (particularly this offseason). Four years is a ridiculous length to offer to Johnny from anyone, I agree, but in my opinion, Damon's shorter-term, monetary value is as a lead-off hitter. Solid lead-off hitters are few and far between, as NY is aware. This talent is also, ironically, the same reason that Johnny isn't worth a wager on four years. I think 10 million a year was Johnny's low-end this off-season.

I think if Damon spent the past few years playing for a less high profile team and hadn't himself become such a personality and character on a high profile team, no one would want to spend over 10 mil per on Damon. Imagine if he spent the last four years on the Royals? Part of his pricetag is the hype, and the hype wouldn't be there if he wasn't an "idiot" on the Red Sox.

[SoxSon]

I think if Damon spent the past few years playing for a less high profile team and hadn't himself become such a personality and character on a high profile team, no one would want to spend over 10 mil per on Damon. Imagine if he spent the last four years on the Royals? Part of his pricetag is the hype, and the hype wouldn't be there if he wasn't an "idiot" on the Red Sox.

Have you looked at Damon's numbers before saying that, XX? Lots of hype, definitely. Lots of skill, most definitely, too.
I suppose it's true that players need to earn a reputation before the money comes in, and a lot of that reputation is earned through media attention (which naturally is greater in larger markets). I still think Damon earned his ten.

[DoubleX]

Have you looked at Damon's numbers before saying that, XX? Lots of hype, definitely. Lots of skill, most definitely, too.
I suppose it's true that players need to earn a reputation before the money comes in, and a lot of that reputation is earned through media attention (which naturally is greater in larger markets). I still think Damon earned his ten.

Here's a look at every position player that earned 12.5 mil or more last year, and each one of them is/was a whole lot better than Damon when they signed their contracts

1) Alex Rodriguez - 26 Mil (His ludicrous contract is another matter)
t2) Barry Bonds - 22 Mil
t2) Manny Ramirez - 22 Mil
4) Derek Jeter - 19.6 Mil
5) Jeff Bagwell - 18 Mil
6) Sammy Sosa - 17 Mil
7) Mike Piazza - 16.07 Mil
8) Chipper Jones - 16.06 Mil
9) Jason Giambi - 13.4 Mil
10) Jim Thome - 13.16 Mil
11) Bobby Abreu - 13.1 Mil
t12) Andruw Jones - 13 Mil
t12) Gary Sheffield - 13 Mil
14) Larry Walker - 12.66 Mil
15) Todd Helton - 12.6 Mil
16) Ken Griffey Jr - 12.5 Mil
17) Vladimir Guerrero - 12.5 Mil

This is a list of the superstars of the game from the past decade. These are players that have won awards, put up monumental numbers, these guys are part of a class that's above and beyond Johnny Damon. There is no way that Johnny Damon has more value than Vladimir Guerrero or Miguel Tejada (who isn't even on this list). And there's now way that Johnny Damon's career is on the same level as Ken Griffey Jr? Gary Sheffield? Larry Walker? Jim Thome? Todd Helton?

But 10 Mil for Damon? I could probably accept that (though I still think his value is closer to 8). But 13 Mil? Damon's numbers are in no way close to being in the same ballpark as the other guys who are earning that much, and some who aren't (like Guerrero and Tejada). Anywho, that's why I can't blame Damon for jumping ship to a team that was willing to vastly overpay for him. I think most any player would do that for an additonal 12 mil.

[Gjm130]

This isn't like the Red Sox sold the guy to the Yankees (like Babe Ruth)
Damon was up for grabs, the guy was a free agent and the yankees simply signed him......Nothing is wrong here......

[Yankeebiscuitfan]

This isn't like the Red Sox sold the guy to the Yankees (like Babe Ruth)
Damon was up for grabs, the guy was a free agent and the yankees simply signed him......Nothing is wrong here......

In a certain way you are right. But Damon is hardly credible after he had said that he wanted to stay and that he loved the Red Sox fans so much.

[SoxSon]

:) Here's a look at every position player that earned 12.5 mil or more last year, and each one of them is/was a whole lot better than Damon when they signed their contracts

1) Alex Rodriguez - 26 Mil (His ludicrous contract is another matter)
t2) Barry Bonds - 22 Mil
t2) Manny Ramirez - 22 Mil
4) Derek Jeter - 19.6 Mil
5) Jeff Bagwell - 18 Mil
6) Sammy Sosa - 17 Mil
7) Mike Piazza - 16.07 Mil
8) Chipper Jones - 16.06 Mil
9) Jason Giambi - 13.4 Mil
10) Jim Thome - 13.16 Mil
11) Bobby Abreu - 13.1 Mil
t12) Andruw Jones - 13 Mil
t12) Gary Sheffield - 13 Mil
14) Larry Walker - 12.66 Mil
15) Todd Helton - 12.6 Mil
16) Ken Griffey Jr - 12.5 Mil
17) Vladimir Guerrero - 12.5 Mil

This is a list of the superstars of the game from the past decade. These are players that have won awards, put up monumental numbers, these guys are part of a class that's above and beyond Johnny Damon. There is no way that Johnny Damon has more value than Vladimir Guerrero or Miguel Tejada (who isn't even on this list). And there's now way that Johnny Damon's career is on the same level as Ken Griffey Jr? Gary Sheffield? Larry Walker? Jim Thome? Todd Helton?

But 10 Mil for Damon? I could probably accept that (though I still think his value is closer to 8). But 13 Mil? Damon's numbers are in no way close to being in the same ballpark as the other guys who are earning that much, and some who aren't (like Guerrero and Tejada). Anywho, that's why I can't blame Damon for jumping ship to a team that was willing to vastly overpay for him. I think most any player would do that for an additonal 12 mil.


All of those names are legends, granted. They did not all, however, have as good a year as Damon last year (when they signed their contracts is pretty much irrelevant, IMO). Jim Thome getting 13.6 is ridiculous, IMO, for his contributions last season. Bonds missed most of the year. Piazza? Sosa? Don't get me wrong. I think Damon's value this off-season is maxed-out at 11 or possibly 11.5, and no, he absolutely doesn't have the "namepower" of these other guys. But market value is a finicky thing, and Damon secured his niche as a premier lead-off hitter last season. :D

[DoubleX]

:)


All of those names are legends, granted. They did not all, however, have as good a year as Damon last year (when they signed their contracts is pretty much irrelevant, IMO). Jim Thome getting 13.6 is ridiculous, IMO, for his contributions last season. Bonds missed most of the year. Piazza? Sosa? Don't get me wrong. I think Damon's value this off-season is maxed-out at 11 or possibly 11.5, and no, he absolutely doesn't have the "namepower" of these other guys. But market value is a finicky thing, and Damon secured his niche as a premier lead-off hitter last season. :D

These players, like Damon, got their contracts based on their previous production. It's not like Sosa signed this contract this year, he signed it when he was hitting 60 homeruns. And Damon's previous production, while good, is not on the same level as any of these players. Just like Thome, Damon could very easily not live up to the value of that contract (I actually believe it's an impossibility since he's not worth that contract in the first place).

Like I said, I think 8-10 mil should have been Damon's range, but it would appear that teams are once again losing fiscal sanity. Look no further than the deal the Dodgers gave Rafael Furcal. Now that's a real head scratcher. 13 mil for Furcal, which is more than Miguel Tejada?! I don't get it. Furcal is a good SS, but I actually think last year aside, Renteria is better (so the Braves may have actually upgraded for cheaper).

[Evangelion]

Damon a different type of player compare to these players, DoubleX. For a lead-off hitter, Damon been extremely effective since he arrived in Boston and did not once failed to score 100 plus runs a season. Also, Damon had his best years in Boston the past two years. While I agree Damon is not worth 13 million a year. I will disagree he's not worth 10 million year and that's still strenching it for a player of his age.

Damon has struggled the first time he arrives on a new team. He also hit 300. plus and had his best years during his final 2 years in Kansas City. Had a terrible year in Oakland, then went to Boston and did good for a lead-off hitter for four years.

Still, over-paying of these athlete in MLB is absolutely ridiculous. How could a medicore level pitcher be paid more than a super star is beyond me. How A-Rod is just about paid more money a year than entire D-Ray team is also beyond me. Why people over-pay for a player they want badly? Jeez, over-estimating a certain player's value, no?

[SoxSon]

These players, like Damon, got their contracts based on their previous production. It's not like Sosa signed this contract this year, he signed it when he was hitting 60 homeruns. And Damon's previous production, while good, is not on the same level as any of these players. Just like Thome, Damon could very easily not live up to the value of that contract (I actually believe it's an impossibility since he's not worth that contract in the first place).

Like I said, I think 8-10 mil should have been Damon's range, but it would appear that teams are once again losing fiscal sanity. Look no further than the deal the Dodgers gave Rafael Furcal. Now that's a real head scratcher. 13 mil for Furcal, which is more than Miguel Tejada?! I don't get it. Furcal is a good SS, but I actually think last year aside, Renteria is better (so the Braves may have actually upgraded for cheaper).

The Furcal deal was ridiculous, I totally agree.
Damon won't live up to this deal with NY, I agree with that, too. It's too long for him to sustain his productivity.

However, I firmly believe that availability of a position/role (plus output, of course) goes a long way towards establishing market value. Who else is out there for Johnny's spot? He's one of the best for what he brings to a team right now. The deal with Furcal has elements of this same principle in effect, I would guess.
I'd also guess that if we get right down to it, Johnny's market value was exactly what NY paid him. But if we're talking about what we think should have been the magic number, I do think Boston should've offered him eleven. Apparently, that wouldn't have gotten him anyway.
:)

[Mattingly]

The Furcal deal was ridiculous, I totally agree.
Damon won't live up to this deal with NY, I agree with that, too. It's too long for him to sustain his productivity.

However, I firmly believe that availability of a position/role (plus output, of course) goes a long way towards establishing market value. Who else is out there for Johnny's spot? He's one of the best for what he brings to a team right now. The deal with Furcal has elements of this same principle in effect, I would guess.
I'd also guess that if we get right down to it, Johnny's market value was exactly what NY paid him. But if we're talking about what we think should have been the magic number, I do think Boston should've offered him eleven. Apparently, that wouldn't have gotten him anyway.
:)
I personally think that Damon's value was around the $10-10.5m that Boston wanted to pay him ($10m, anyway was offered). I still think that once the Yanks got into the picture, his market price raised.

I didn't see his market rice going higher for Boston, but to me, purely on market value, I'd say that it would be more valuable for the Yanks to overpay than for Boston, simply because he was their player and was expected to re-sign. Add in the fact that Boston wasn't likely increasing their initial offerings by much.

For the Yanks, this deal was more valuable, simply because they got him away from Boston, forcing them to look for another CFer, and mostly by trade. This would also jeapordize their farm system, since opposing GMs could then demand (though not necessarily receive) some of the better prospects, rather than higher-priced pitchers like Matt Clement, less experienced pitchers like Bronson Arroyo, or David Wells.

Strange logic, but that's how I feel.

Re XX's post, as to Johnny living up to his contract, I doubt it. For 3 years, I think that $11-12m per would've been a good thing.

[DoubleX]

The Furcal deal was ridiculous, I totally agree.
Damon won't live up to this deal with NY, I agree with that, too. It's too long for him to sustain his productivity.

However, I firmly believe that availability of a position/role (plus output, of course) goes a long way towards establishing market value. Who else is out there for Johnny's spot? He's one of the best for what he brings to a team right now. The deal with Furcal has elements of this same principle in effect, I would guess.
I'd also guess that if we get right down to it, Johnny's market value was exactly what NY paid him. But if we're talking about what we think should have been the magic number, I do think Boston should've offered him eleven. Apparently, that wouldn't have gotten him anyway.
:)

I recognize Damon's talents, and you're right, Boston should have uppped their offer, because if nothing else, Damon is much more marketable in Boston than he'll ever be in New York.

As for leadoff hitters, Damon will make the Yankees lineup very deep, but believe it or not, Derek Jeter has actually been a better leadoff hitter the past couple of years. CF was something the Yanks were desperate for, but not necessarily a leadoff hitter (though I much prefer Jeter batting 2nd anyway).

Anyway, as you can probably see by now, I'm just naturally very anti-Johnny Damon. And that has nothing do with the Red Sox (though that didn't help). I didn't like him going back when he played for Kansas City and then Oakland. I don't know what it was, it might just be his name - Johnny Damon - like some 50's greaser punk or something. I know that's a stupid reason not to like a player, but for some reason, I just can't get past it. :)

[SoxSon]

I recognize Damon's talents, and you're right, Boston should have uppped their offer, because if nothing else, Damon is much more marketable in Boston than he'll ever be in New York.

As for leadoff hitters, Damon will make the Yankees lineup very deep, but believe it or not, Derek Jeter has actually been a better leadoff hitter the past couple of years. CF was something the Yanks were desperate for, but not necessarily a leadoff hitter (though I much prefer Jeter batting 2nd anyway).

Anyway, as you can probably see by now, I'm just naturally very anti-Johnny Damon. And that has nothing do with the Red Sox (though that didn't help). I didn't like him going back when he played for Kansas City and then Oakland. I don't know what it was, it might just be his name - Johnny Damon - like some 50's greaser punk or something. I know that's a stupid reason not to like a player, but for some reason, I just can't get past it. :)

I think you'll change your mind about Damon when you see how much heart he has in the game. I recognize that he's been a bit flamboyant, and his image has seemed more appropriate for Hollywood at times, but the man does play with fierce determination. I can't remember a single instance of Damon not going full-steam while in Boston. He plays through pain like nobody out there.

I also remember one particular game when Boston was facing Oakland. I declared aloud to those in the room that Boston really should pick up this guy, Johnny Damon. I was thoroughly impressed with what I saw. The next year it happened. I was pleased with myself. ;)

I wonder if your fellow NY fans feel the way you do about not really needing a new lead-off hitter in your lineup. It feels like I've heard NY fans complaining about the lack of one for some time now. Maybe I'm off on this.
:)

[SoxSon]

I didn't see his market price going higher for Boston, but to me, purely on market value, I'd say that it would be more valuable for the Yanks to overpay than for Boston...


Yep. I think this is right on the money.

[DoubleX]

I wonder if your fellow NY fans feel the way you do about not really needing a new lead-off hitter in your lineup. It feels like I've heard NY fans complaining about the lack of one for some time now. Maybe I'm off on this.
:)

You're exactly right about this. There has been clamor for a "traditional" leadoff hitter. The general consensus is that Jeter is better in the 2-hole, in the years that Knoblauch and Soriano leadoff. Damon will certainly make the lineup much deeper, but Jeter was actually a better leadoff hitter than Damon last year, and I don't think many people realize that. The thing is, Jeter can bat elsewhere in the lineup, whereas Damon really can't, unless it's at the very end.

[TonyK]

When Damon comes up to bat in Fenway I think the every fan ought to chant, "Just say no, Idiot!"

[buck22]

I say everyone stands in silence during his first at-bat. How un-nerving would that be?
http://silencefordamon.blogspot.com/

http://www.petitiononline.com/damon/petition.html

[Maldonado]

....I'd guess that people will come specifically to boo Damon. I think he'll need a kevlar vest.

[Mattingly]

....I'd guess that people will come specifically to boo Damon. I think he'll need a kevlar vest.
I don't think that things have ever gotten that bad whereby a player was actually hated out there. He may be viewed as a turncoat whose strong star power & icon status fell out of the sky overnight, but I seriously doubt anything like that would ever happen.

[VTSoxFan]

I think (hope) that Maldonado was speaking figuratively... I don't know as people would make a special trip to Boston to express their unhappiness with his decision, but I can see them "welcoming" the Yankees' bus through the streets with an especially vocal greeting.

I know he'll get booed into a hole in the ground, but there will be some fans more gracious and forgiving and forebearing than others, who will thank him for his 4 years' service. They'll be outnumbered about 50-1, probably.

If the new Boston CF (Coco Crisp, or whomever) performs well in April, then the boos might not be quite as bitter. But if the new guy stumbles out of the gate... Damon will be the villain, and the boos will be rich and loud and most unequivocal.

[Mattingly]

I figure that for his first game in Fenway--and the entire series there, he'll get laughed at and get less harsh treatment the next day (or series) if he makes a defensive or baserunning gaffe to cost the Yanks a win. However, if his defense, baserunning and hitting helps him to win, then he'll be roundly booed, and quite vocally I'd say.

If Coco Crisp outplays him offensively, defensively and in baserunning, I figure they'll let Damon go easy.



*cheers for the boos* :crazy :p

[monty]

Damon wont get a bad reception..he will get a HORRENDOUS reception. Regardless of what Co co Crisp can do for us. He was the founding father so to speak of the our team, the captiann "idiot" and meant more to the redsox fans then Nomar did in his prime. Its a shame and i think he will hate coming to Boston.

[scriptito]

I hope that all of Fenway will stand up and turn their backs on him. No booing allowed, only the silent treatment. He always wanted to end his career in Boston; he has done that. Was the wedding that expensive that 12 million more had to cover it? I still take rather personally, yet, after 43 years as a solid fan, one goes on. Besides Sox in 06!

[Mattingly]

Damon wont get a bad reception..he will get a HORRENDOUS reception. Regardless of what Co co Crisp can do for us. He was the founding father so to speak of the our team, the captiann "idiot" and meant more to the redsox fans then Nomar did in his prime. Its a shame and i think he will hate coming to Boston.
Even though it's a different story, as it's an older player, but how would this contrast to how Clemens was treated at Fenway? The infamous "DARRRRRRRRRRRRYYYYYYYYYLLLLLLLLL" thing from the 1986 WS (re the Mets' Darry Strawberry in RF) was repeated in "ROGGGEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRR" in I think, the 2003 ALCS, and a few regular season games.

Roger, unlike Nomah and Damon, played quite a few seasons in Boston, and to some I've heard from here, could've retired after 1996 and gone into Cooperstown.

After the 1st series, followed by the 2nd, do you think there will still be the strong resentment? Or will he ever just be "another Yankee"?

Yeah, I know, I ask crazy questions. Just get over it. :p

[buck22]

I hope that all of Fenway will stand up and turn their backs on him. No booing allowed, only the silent treatment. He always wanted to end his career in Boston; he has done that. Was the wedding that expensive that 12 million more had to cover it? I still take rather personally, yet, after 43 years as a solid fan, one goes on. Besides Sox in 06!

Right on. That's my idea exactly. How awesome would it be to see all of Fenway Park just turn their backs on him. Just to let him know that we don't care. Bye bye Johnny.
http://silencefordamon.blogspot.com/
http://www.petitiononline.com/damon/petition.html

[CuriousBoston]

A sea of Damon jerseys, many homemade, with horizontal pinstripes. Boston police happy: extra police details to protect Damon.

Who were the two Sox outfielders, that when they knelt together in the outfield to talk, their backs read "1918"?

Damon should not be in New York.

HURRY UP, SEASON, BEFORE I START PLAYING BASEBALL WITH THE CAT!

[Williamsburg2599]

I'm not taking Damon off the hook, but he's not totally to blame. The Sox initial offer to Damon was 3yr/27M...That's saying he was worth a million less a year than Edgar Renteria. If I'm JD, I'm feeling a bit hurt by that offer. To further widen the rift, when agent Scott Boras received the offer, he was brusquely asked to have an answer by Christmas Eve. I'm no fan of Scott Boras, but the man is entirely too good at what he does to be buffaloed by a Red Sox official who wants to be percieved as a hard core action man. If the Sox had offered Damon a fair market deal from the outset, rather than deploying an insulting slap-and-tickle form of negotiation, we wouldn't have to look at JD's smooth and beautiful face in pinstripes.
As far as a fan reaction, I anticipate a mixed bag, boos from the fans who forgot his contributions to the team (which should be acknowledged in my humble opinion), and cheers from those who were fans up to the point when JD signed with the Yankees.

Is it all about the money these days? tsk tsk hes already set for life.

[Simayl]

I think Damon will flop in New York, he won't thrive in that environment. The Bronx fans will not give him the benefit of the doubt. What do they owe him? How can Damon become a cult hero in pinstripes? Isn't his status all to do with attitude, appearance and irreverance... not traits likely to impress the Yankees organisation. He is not worth that much money, I think the Yanks have made a mistake and the Sox will probably emerge the better from the deal. The only true loss is Damon's reputation, he's quite happy with the money. Crisp will be a success and the Nation will forgive Damon if he is a bust in New York.

[RichardLikeWhoa]

I'll be the coward in RF boo'ing him May 1st. I CAN'T WAIT!

[SoxSon]

I think Damon will flop in New York, he won't thrive in that environment. The Bronx fans will not give him the benefit of the doubt. What do they owe him? How can Damon become a cult hero in pinstripes? Isn't his status all to do with attitude, appearance and irreverance... not traits likely to impress the Yankees organisation. He is not worth that much money, I think the Yanks have made a mistake and the Sox will probably emerge the better from the deal. The only true loss is Damon's reputation, he's quite happy with the money. Crisp will be a success and the Nation will forgive Damon if he is a bust in New York.

As much as many Sox fans might like it to happen, I see no reason to believe that Damon will be a bust in NY. He is a guy who thrives in the limelight. Sure, he'll start a natural fizzle after a couple of years due to his age. But beyond that, I certainly don't see him as a guy who's going to shrink under the scrutiny. His status has a lot to do with his production on the field, as well as his swagger.

By the way, I don't think Sox fans give their players the benefit of the doubt too often, either. I also don't think that Damon is ever going to be forgiven by the Nation, regardless of what he does in NY. Just my own humble opinion.

[Mattingly]

I think Damon will flop in New York, he won't thrive in that environment. The Bronx fans will not give him the benefit of the doubt. What do they owe him? How can Damon become a cult hero in pinstripes? Isn't his status all to do with attitude, appearance and irreverance... not traits likely to impress the Yankees organisation. He is not worth that much money, I think the Yanks have made a mistake and the Sox will probably emerge the better from the deal. The only true loss is Damon's reputation, he's quite happy with the money. Crisp will be a success and the Nation will forgive Damon if he is a bust in New York.
I'm curious, which Yankee fans have you spoken with that have said he'd never be given the benefit of the doubt? Like Giambi in 2002, I expect to hear boos until he actually produces, but then again, Mantle and Tino were booed because of the guys they'd replaced (DiMaggio and Donnie Baseball, respectively). Damon's replacing Bernie, who IMO is an icon equivalent to Donnie and Paul O'Neill, so it's a tough chore.

I'll only say that for people like Damon and Pedro--who to me, had a much larger effect on the Red Sox, and for many more years--don't really have the same expectations re cult status when they leave.

As to cult status in the Bronx, I'd say look for the names Mantle, DiMaggio, Gehrig, Ruth as examples. There are others who are very popular, but not as much as those guys.

We have yet to see how Damon will behave as a Yankee. He's certainly a lot more expecting of the center of attention than say, Derek Jeter, but some guys, especially Reggie Jackson, have done well while expecting the spotlight be on them.

Was he worth the money? I'm guessing that in lieu of a 7-yr deal, the extra $1m/season was tacked onto the 4-yr deal. Will his speed, his ability to get to the ball, his ability to lead off (given that Jeter doesn't end up taking that role) benefit the Yanks? If I could answer that, I'd have picked some nice Lottery tickets by now.

There's no guarantee what Coco Crisp will do either. He's return to CF, but this time on a team that expects to make the playoffs annually. What he does offensively and defensively, like Damon, will have to be seen later on during the season. First we need to *GET* to the season before anything else.