No Cuba in world baseball classic

[chisox2k5]

The whole baseball classic idea is stupid anyways


When the World Baseball Classic is contested in March 2006, Cuba likely won't be there.

The U.S. government informed event organizers Wednesday that Cuba has been denied permission to send a team to the major inaugural championship.

Major League Baseball was also told of the decision by the Treasury Department's Office of Foreign Assets Control, according to Patrick Courtney, a spokesman for the commissioner's office.

A permit from OFAC is required because of U.S. laws governing commercial transactions with Cuba.

The decision doesn't sit well with two senior baseball officials. Paul Archey, the senior vice president of Major League Baseball International, and Gene Orza, the chief operating officer of the Major League Baseball Players Association, issued a joint statement saying the organizers would try to reverse the decision.

"We are very disappointed with the government's decision to deny the participation of a team from Cuba in the World Baseball Classic," Archey and Orza said. "We will continue to work within appropriate channels in an attempt to address the government's concerns and will not announce a replacement unless and until that effort fails."

The commissioner's office and the union have jointly organized the 16-team tournament, which runs from March 3-20 in the U.S., Puerto Rico and Japan.

Cuba was to begin its first round of play on March 8 at Hiram Bithorn Stadium in San Juan, Puerto Rico. The communist island nation is one of the world's top baseball playing countries and was expected to contend for the title.

Organizers said the Cuban team likely would likely have included only players currently residing in Cuba and not defectors such as Jose Contreras, Orlando Hernandez and Livan Hernandez, who have become major league stars.

It's not clear how the decision will affect the tournament's schedule.

[Yankee Legend]

The cuban government is not going to let a cuban citzen go to the United states for a week simply because they fear the players are not going to come back.

[BasEbaLlKnoItAll]

This stinks. I was really looking forward to Cuba participating in this thing.

[wilkerson_rulz-06]

Well,well Mister FIDEL CASTRO...
what would you expect from a dictator: :coffee

[Captain Cold Nose]

Unless I'm reading the article wrong, I don't think Castro is to blame here.
This is a shame. Without Cuba, the WBC is just a nice tournament. It's almost like the 1984 Summer Olympics.

[efin98]

Unless I'm reading the article wrong, I don't think Castro is to blame here.

Castro won't allow the defectors to play so the Treasury Department said no to their request. Part of their agreement to be allowed to play in the latter part of the tournament is that they have to allow the defectors to play, but Cuba(really Castro) refuses. No defectors, no Cuba. Another national team will replace them.

This is a shame. Without Cuba, the WBC is just a nice tournament. It's almost like the 1984 Summer Olympics.

I think you really mean the 1980 Olympics. 1984 the USSR and Warsaw Pact countries chose not to send teams, in 1980 the President barred the US from competing.

[Captain Cold Nose]

I think you really mean the 1980 Olympics. 1984 the USSR and Warsaw Pact countries chose not to send teams, in 1980 the President barred the US from competing.

Both of them, actually, because the competition was lacking in both Moscow and Los Angeles. But, and forgive me for being ethnocentric (I don't think that's exactly the right term, but I can't think of what it is) here, 1984 was a bigger disappointment for me because I was so much more aware of it. The 1980 Summer Olympics weren't really discussed because the U.S wasn't in them.

[efin98]

Both of them, actually, because the competition was lacking in both Moscow and Los Angeles. But, and forgive me for being ethnocentric (I don't think that's exactly the right term, but I can't think of what it is) here, 1984 was a bigger disappointment for me because I was so much more aware of it. The 1980 Summer Olympics weren't really discussed because the U.S wasn't in them.

Both are pretty valid comparisons but I think it's more like 1980 for the very reason you stated: it's one country not in the tournament.

I think that is being overdone- just one major country will not participate. Meanwhile there is at least five other major countries in the tournament that are being forgotten about. On top of that the country that may replace Cuba could be just as good if not better than Cuba's team would have been.

[baseball junkie]

Why exactly is our Treasury Department deciding who's playing in the "World Baseball Classic"? Afterall, a goodly portion of the games are being played in Japan. We don't have any territorial claim over Japan do we? Or have I just been living on some alternate planet?

This is an outrage. Cuba should be allowed in the games. Frankly I think since Treasury is a cabinet office, I wouldn't be surprised if this decision didn't come from the Whitehouse. Somebody is scared of being beat by Cuba. Somebody named George.

But if we had let the Cubans bring their team on American or Japanese territory, then maybe some of the players would have decided they didn't want to live under a totalitarian communist regime and would have emigrated.

[Captain Cold Nose]

Why exactly is our Treasury Department deciding who's playing in the "World Baseball Classic"? Afterall, a goodly portion of the games are being played in Japan. We don't have any territorial claim over Japan do we? Or have I just been living on some alternate planet?

This is an outrage. Cuba should be allowed in the games. Frankly I think since Treasury is a cabinet office, I wouldn't be surprised if this decision didn't come from the Whitehouse. Somebody is scared of being beat by Cuba. Somebody named George.

But if we had let the Cubans bring their team on American or Japanese territory, then maybe some of the players would have decided they didn't want to live under a totalitarian communist regime and would have emigrated.
Japan only has a portion of the games. What's the point of participating if you can't take part in all of it?

Perhaps you should read the previous posts, especially efin's, before you make a ridiculous and unfounded comment.

[efin98]

Why exactly is our Treasury Department deciding who's playing in the "World Baseball Classic"? Afterall, a goodly portion of the games are being played in Japan. We don't have any territorial claim over Japan do we? Or have I just been living on some alternate planet?


Games to be played in Japan, Puerto Rico, and the USA. In the latter two the Treasury Department can bar Cuba from playing.

This is an outrage. Cuba should be allowed in the games. Frankly I think since Treasury is a cabinet office, I wouldn't be surprised if this decision didn't come from the Whitehouse. Somebody is scared of being beat by Cuba. Somebody named George.

I suggest getting a history boook and reading up on the US embargo- the same one that is still in place after 43 years. There is more at work than meets the eyes.

The President has nothing to do with this, a Congressional act is at work here. The Treasury Department has the right to refuse the team from coming, and they invoked that right. Just as they have to right to refuse US teams from playing there.

If the tournament was being held in Japan for the final two rounds there would be no "controversy" nor with Cuba being barred be a story.

[baseball junkie]

Oh I think Captain Cold Nose is a W fan. And yes I know all about the embargo. I also know the treasury department is a cabinet office putting it directly under the auspices of the President, not congress.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Fricking U.S. government!! You suck!!!!! :grouchy :grouchy :grouchy :grouchy :grouchy :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Captain Cold Nose]

Oh I think Captain Cold Nose is a W fan. And yes I know all about the embargo. I also know the treasury department is a cabinet office putting it directly under the auspices of the President, not congress.
What my political allegiances are has nothing to do with making ridiculous and unfounded comments. If this had happened under the previous President, rest assuredly, I would have said the same thing.

[trosmok]

This is only the first salvo, gang. Rest assured the diplomatic spin machines will get to work and will arrive at a solution that will allow the best team invited, that has accepted, to participate. Fidel wanted assurances from San Juan and San Diego, where the Cuban National Team will play and win, that defections will not be tolerated. When he received those two weeks ago, he agreed to allow the CNT to participate, but not the MLB defectors from his island. The Treasury Department is a weak little urchin on foreign affairs matters; the State Department, the Secretary of State, and the Attorney General can all trump a permit denial with a few strokes of a pen. Dubya actually wants all invited to participate, and it wouldn't surprise me if he takes credit for, and makes political hay by reversing Treasury's initial insult.

[efin98]

Oh I think Captain Cold Nose is a W fan. And yes I know all about the embargo. I also know the treasury department is a cabinet office putting it directly under the auspices of the President, not congress.

The facts. (http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c104:H.R.927.ENR:) The President doesn't have anything to do with it.

Captain Cold Nose is actually agreeing with you if you could open your ears for a minute and listen to what he is saying.

[Captain Cold Nose]

This is only the first salvo, gang. Rest assured the diplomatic spin machines will get to work and will arrive at a solution that will allow the best team invited, that has accepted, to participate. Fidel wanted assurances from San Juan and San Diego, where the Cuban National Team will play and win, that defections will not be tolerated. When he received those two weeks ago, he agreed to allow the CNT to participate, but not the MLB defectors from his island. The Treasury Department is a weak little urchin on foreign affairs matters; the State Department, the Secretary of State, and the Attorney General can all trump a permit denial with a few strokes of a pen. Dubya actually wants all invited to participate, and it wouldn't surprise me if he takes credit for, and makes political hay by reversing Treasury's initial insult. BTW, I've heard there is a village in Texas that is missing it's idiot.:laugh
I thought Molly Ivins was still there.
Unless it has something to do with the topic at hand, which is the WBC, please, everyone, keep any and all political barbs out of the discussion. What my, or anyone else's politics for that matter is off topic. This isn't mlb.com.
I'm not directing this at you, specifically, trosmok. I'm just using your post as my proclamation starting point. You could have dartboards filled with Dubya's face on them and you'd still be at the top of my list of favorite posters. It just doesn't belong here.

[efin98]

The Treasury Department is a weak little urchin on foreign affairs matters

Except Cuba. They don't fool around when it comes to that little island.

the State Department, the Secretary of State, and the Attorney General can all trump a permit denial with a few strokes of a pen.

Not likely. Not when Treasury has valid justification behind it's decision. They can be wrong in their refusal, but something like this doesn't happen knee-jerk. They have something that is not known...

Dubya actually wants all invited to participate, and it wouldn't surprise me if he takes credit for, and makes political hay by reversing Treasury's initial insult.

That political hay vs. the fall-out he has to endure from the other side of the issue...I'd place good money on him not reversing Treasury.

[trosmok]

It just doesn't belong here.

Agreed, and I've edited my previous post, but I still think there is a whole lot of time for this little hiccup to be rescinded. Fidel is getting mighty long in the tooth, and all those cigars have taken their toll on his health, so there is going to be a day in the very near future when relations to our closest island neighbors are going to return to nearly normal, again. The WBC is just one of many olive branches being extended to Cuba, and sports have a way of transcending other considerations. Perhaps many are too young to remember, or only know about it from Forrest Gump, but the U.S. v. China ping-pong games were a huge part of the thawing in the relations with that other Communist regime. BTW, two people I work very closely with visited Havana less than a year ago on a "humanitarian" mission with the American Red Cross, and told first hand of the dozens of businesses based in the U.S. that are working with the Cuban government and people in various enterprises. While strictly forbidden by Treasury rules, there are always loopholes exploited by folks, including ones that allows cooperation in capitalist endeavors including sports for "mutual health benefit" reasons.

[efin98]

Agreed, and I've edited my previous post, but I still think there is a whole lot of time for this little hiccup to be rescinded.

2006 is an election year for Congress(the ones who enacted the law that the Treasury Department is enforcing FYI to those who don't know). Florida also has a governor's race next fall as well, so I am sure that factored into things quite a bit....think about that for a second.

Fidel is getting mighty long in the tooth, and all those cigars have taken their toll on his health, so there is going to be a day in the very near future when relations to our closest island neighbors are going to return to nearly normal, again. The WBC is just one of many olive branches being extended to Cuba, and sports have a way of transcending other considerations.

Perhaps many are too young to remember, or only know about it from Forrest Gump, but the U.S. v. China ping-pong games were a huge part of the thawing in the relations with that other Communist regime

Difference then and now: that was in China, WBC is in the USA. If the tournament was being held in Japan or Korea or the Dominican Republic we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

[Gamingboy]

Any idea who'll replace Cuba if MLB doesn't get this all sorted out?


I figure there are 2 canidates (I didn't include a Free Cuban team, since that would be a complicated matter):

Colombia
MLB Players: Edgar Renteria, Orlando Cabrera, Yamid Haad.


Nicaragua
MLB Players: Vicente Padilla

[christian gentleman]

I saw an undefeated cuban team win the world cup over here in the netherlands this summer. they play at a high level. no world baseball classic or tourney would be legitimate without them. mlb should fight this one, or abandon the whole idea of the wbc. seems a shame when there is one thing we share a passion for in both countries (usa and cuba). why can't baseball invoke a special clause in this case? why is the government interfering? This is a chance to promote the game internationally while also easing tensions between cuba and the US. if cuba is not allowed to join, it is a missed opportunity for all of us and for the game.

[Andruw]

Puerto Rico to help Cuba into Classic

NEW YORK (AP) -- U.S. bids to host future Olympic Games will be damaged by the Bush administration's decision to prevent Cuba from playing in next year's inaugural World Baseball Classic, a member of the IOC said Thursday.

The U.S. Treasury Department denied a request by Major League Baseball and the Major League Baseball Players Association for a permit to allow Cuba to send a team.














"It's for baseball to decide, but if they don't make a stand on something like that, then they will have big problems down the road," said Dick Pound, an International Olympic Committee member from Canada.

If not reversed, he said "it would completely scupper any bid" by the United States for the Summer or Winter Games.

Baseball officials said they had asked lawyers at Morgan Lewis & Bockius to attempt to have the Bush administration reverse the decision by the Treasury Department's Office of Foreign Assets Control, which by law must issue permits for certain transactions with Fidel Castro's communist country.

"I think our policy regarding Cuba is pretty well known," White House spokesman Scott McClellan said. "We want people in Cuba to participate in freedom."

Rep. Lincoln Diaz-Balart, a Florida Republican, said he had spoken with the Treasury Department urging that the permit be denied.

"There are plenty of free Cuban players and Cuban-Americans here in the majors and in the minors who would be proud to represent Cuba, and they should be able to and not a totalitarian regime that would share in any proceeds from this tournament," he said.

He rejected Pound's claim that the decision will hurt the U.S. in Olympic bidding.

"Hopefully by an Olympic very near in the future there will be a free Cuba, anyway," Diaz-Balart said. "I think that's one of the most absurd arguments I've heard in a long time."

U.S. Olympic Committee spokesman Darryl Seibel said any fallout in the IOC was hard to predict because the USOC hasn't decided when it will make its next bid. But he also added: "Certainly it's important for any country that's bidding for the Games to be able to represent with confidence that athletes and coaches from around the world will be able to come to their country."

In Havana, government officials didn't react to the decision, but several Cuban citizens were angry.

"Enough already!" said Antonio Mayeta, whose brother plays for Havana's Industriales baseball team. "It's unbelievable. This is about sports, not politics. In Cuba, baseball is our culture. Everyone was so anxious to see these games."

Said Victor Renglon, sitting on a park bench in central Havana: "Everyone from Fidel to little boys are born with a bat in their hands."

Puerto Rico Secretary of State Fernando Bonilla planned to meet Friday with the head of Immigration and Customs Enforcement in Puerto Rico, and seek help in reversing the decision from Luis Fortuno, Puerto Rico's nonvoting representative in Congress, and from the director of the Puerto Rico Federal Affairs Administration in Washington.

In 1999, the U.S. government allowed Cuba's national team to play an exhibition game against the Baltimore Orioles at Camden Yards, the second leg of a home-and-home series.

"Back then it was the Clinton administration not only allowing but organizing the opening to Castro and utilizing Peter Angelos and the Baltimore Orioles and Bud Selig. They were instigating it," Diaz-Balart said. "This administration is complying with law and policy."

Pound pointed out the U.S. government allowed Cuba to participate in the 1996 Atlanta Olympics. Twelve years earlier, Cuba was part of the boycott of the Los Angeles Games.

Just last summer, Cuba's national soccer team was allowed to come to the United States for the CONCACAF Gold Cup, the championship of North and Central America and the Caribbean.

"Sports should be separated from politics," U.S. Soccer Federation president Bob Contiguglia said. "That's been a FIFA and an IOC philosophy, and we concur with that philosophy. In soccer, we've played Cuba in sport on many occasions and it's never been a problem. We've had teams go to Cuba and they've come here. So it seems kind of shortsighted that the administration would do that."

Diaz-Balart compared the situation to the international sports ban on teams from apartheid South Africa that ran from the 1960s to the 1990s.

"I don't know why the double standard," he said. "It's all right to oppress the Cuban people, I guess, if there's a white dictator, but with people of mixed race suffering the consequences."

Treasury Secretary John Snow was not available for comment on the issue, spokeswoman Molly Millerwise said. Officials of the IOC didn't respond to requests for comment.

FIFA president Sepp Blatter was unconcerned.

"This would not happen in football," he said Friday in Tokyo. "Before giving the organization (rights) of the World Cup or any world competition, we have a government guarantee before we start, so we avoid this situation."

[Captain Cold Nose]

While posting articles is fine, Andruw, please be careful to remove the advertising before you paste.

[Brannu]

"Can't we all just ge along." :crazy

[christian gentleman]

without a-rod, i think the wbc is just an exhibition and not serious. and if latin players start to protest the US decision not to let cuba play, ("let" what a horrible preconception), I think the thing should be cancelled. the game of baseball is a city game after all, not a national game. go yanks, go sox, go Oakland. let's focus on the best the game can be the way it has been for so long. bud selig should be more outspoken. where is our giamatti? where is our connie mack? where is kenesaw mountain landis? no visionary in the game at the moment is a disappointment and a major handicap.

[digglahhh]

Its hard to keep politics out a discussion regarding an act that was 100% political and had nothing at all to do with baseball.

Petty, very petty! I wouldn't expect anything else...

[Yankeebiscuitfan]

Eventhough the chances of Holland to reach te second round will increase, I still think this is a devaluation of the tournament. Cuba must participate.

If the US government really wants people to participate in freedom, I know a lot of other countries against whom she should take action. But this is only because Cuba is in Washington's back yard, just like in the Reagan days.

Sorry guys, but this is just not right IMO.

[Yankeebiscuitfan]

Maybe this can help to turn back the stupid decision.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/17/sports/baseball/17cuba.html

[efin98]

Maybe this can help to turn back the stupid decision.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/17/sports/baseball/17cuba.html

Actually, it supports it. This is the key in the article:

"Ted Howard, the deputy secretary general of Concacaf, the soccer confederation of North and Central America and the Caribbean, said the Cubans had followed "normal channels" in applying for visas in their country and receiving them through the State Department.
"There's nothing earth-shattering about it," Howard said.

Steve Torres, a spokesman for Concacaf, added, "This is the same as granting visas for Cuban athletes to participate in the Olympics.""



Also of note is this:

Baseball officials are planning to change their application so Cuba receives no financial consideration.

They make the change to comply with federal laws, the decision is reversed.

[trosmok]

No change really needs to be made in order for the CNT to participate in compliance with the Treasury dept.s' narrow interpretation of the cold war law. All that needs to be done is to stipulate the proceeds realized by Cuba will be used for strictly "humanitarian" needs. This is what was done in '99 when the Orioles played the home and home two game series against Havana's finest.

You don't need to be a Fidelista to support inclusiveness, see?

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/dolphins/content/sports/epaper/2005/12/18/a1b_PBP_STODA_1218.html

BTW, the poll was running 74% to 26% of that south Florida paper's readers in favor of allowing Cuba to participate.

[trosmok]

Cuba has offered it's share of the WBC games proceeds to the victims of Hurrican Katrina in their newest application to Treasury for a permit.

http://sports.yahoo.com/top/news;_ylt=AovZnuMMDdfC92w_18YdHQgRvLYF?slug=ap-worldclassic-cuba&prov=ap&type=lgns

Puerto Rico has made it clear it will withdraw it's offer to host the first two rounds if the Cuban permit is again denied. Looks more and more like solidarity among the teams, the athletes, the sponsors, and the fans will win out over cold war nonsense.

[christian gentleman]

[QUOTE=trosmok]Cuba has offered it's share of the WBC games proceeds to the victims of Hurrican Katrina in their newest application to Treasury for a permit.


that's brilliant.

[trosmok]

Man about sports' take on the whole WBC mess:

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/2005-12-23-castro-bush-classic_x.htm

I am now wondering if this exhibition is worth all the petty sniping.

[trosmok]

Hugo "Loco" Chavez hasn't heard back yet from MLB, and I'm not sure they take his offer even half seriously. Unless I am mistaken, once spring training starts, many of the stars who have previously "committed" to playing in the WBC will be dropping out like 16yr.old ninth graders. Minor injuries here, family issues there, strange flu-like symptoms, etc.; I just see a whole lot of wind going out of the sails of Slug Selig's latest folly. I think a team of Cuban defectors would be a gas to include, but not at the expense of the CNT, which have not yet heard back from Treasury Dept. officials regarding their recent resubmission. Oh well, there's still Beijing in '08 to look forward to...;) TSN's Stan McNeal must be thinking similarly:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/sn/20060103/sp_sn/worldbaseballclassicwontliveuptohype

[trosmok]

The International Baseball Federation is about to nix the whole WBC if certain "leaders" don't come to grips with reality and let the best team play. If the Cuban National team is not allowed to compete, future international competitions are in serious jeopardy.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/john_donovan/01/06/cuba.wbc/index.html

[trosmok]

WuzIriteorwhut? Cuba, the best team in the WBC, is now cleared to participate in the exhibition. Best of luck to all, and Go Cuba!:gt

Hope this link works; Ronald Blum of AP Sports and four others contributed to the story:

http://sports.yahoo.com/top/news;_ylt=ApPFaYIP5mVvnwBAGOUHJf8LYF?slug=ap-classic-cuba&prov=ap&type=lgn