How many baseball town are there...really? [Archive]

eddiejc1

12-11-2005, 03:08 PM

Scoops

12-11-2005, 03:23 PM

I think Cincy probably would be a baseball town, if only because the Bengals have been bad for so long (until this year). I'm dead certain that people care more about the Lakers than baseball in LA.

Maybe Houston? Their new football team is pretty lousy and I dunno if the Rockets are as big as they have been. Or Chicago, with the Sox and Cubs rivalling the Bears or Bulls.

I'd say football is probably #1 everywhere else, except Toronto (hockey) and Phoenix/Arizona (basketball).

baseball junkie

12-11-2005, 03:26 PM

St. Louis, New York, Atlanta, Philadelphia, Boston, Chicago, San Francisco, in no particular order. Oh yeah and Seattle.

eddiejc1

12-11-2005, 03:57 PM

St. Louis, New York, Atlanta, Philadelphia, Boston, Chicago, San Francisco, in no particular order. Oh yeah and Seattle.

Maybe somebody from Atlanta can contradict me, but I hear fans are more interested in the Falcons. Incidentally, before any Braves fans pummel me, let me frankly admit something. Nats fans turned out in phenomenal numbers to RFK last year, and 2.7 million is amazing considering RFK does not have many of the same conveniences that modern ballparks have, many fans couldn't pick up radio broadcasts, and our games weren't telecast on cable TV. Still, we are light-years behind the Redskins, and I think we may be behind the Wizards, Terps, and Hoyas as well...

Eddie Cunningham

538280

12-11-2005, 07:26 PM

I don't mean cities which can support baseball. I mean places where interest in the local baseball team is #1 and everything else does not come close. Off the top of my head, I can only think of four....Boston, New York, and St. Louis. At one time, Cincinnati may have been a baseball town, but I don't know if that is the case. Baltimore USED to be a baseball town, but thanks to Peter Angelos fans care more about the Ravens now. I probably should list L.A., but I suspect the Lakers may have a bigger hold on people's hearts. Is this list too short or am I too cynical?

Eddie Cunningham

Boston (and Massachusetts in general) is more of a Red Sox state than a baseball state. The Red Sox are huge, even bigger than the Patriots despite their recent success. As far as just pure love for the sport of baseball, it's not anything that special.

charlesblalack@yahoo.com

12-11-2005, 07:32 PM

If the Patriots are considered in Boston, I would think that Boston is a football town. Off the top of my head I can only think of one place where baseball is big and #1, New York City

Bluesteve32

12-11-2005, 09:07 PM

Saying LA is not a baseball town is absurd. The Dodgers have consistantly the learder in attendance since their move to LA in 1958 and the Angels have lead the AL in attendace as early as 1966, and from 1978-87 among the top three in AL attendance. Since 2002, the Angels attendace has only been behind the Yankees and Dodgers. The Dodgers drew 3.6 million last season while the Angels drew 3.4 million, that is 8 million peole attending MLB in one market.

Before MLB came to town, the city supported two PCL clubs, the Angels and the Stars and USC was the dominate program in colligiate baseball until the mid 1970s. The local news normally starts with the baseball teams first. LA is and always was a baseball town. How many major leagues come from So Cal?

efin98

12-11-2005, 11:07 PM

If the Patriots are considered in Boston, I would think that Boston is a football town. Off the top of my head I can only think of one place where baseball is big and #1, New York City

Boston itself is not a Red Sox town nor even a Patriots town- it's long been the Bruins and Celtics at top teams.

The general "Boston area" is Patriots country, has been since 1995 or so. The Red Sox are the second team and rising but it is still far away from being the top. Even with the Red Sox making it to the ALCS in 2003 and winning the World Series in 2004, they got overshaddowed by the Patriots.

Jake83

12-12-2005, 12:54 AM

L.A. supports winners no matter if it is the Kings , Lakers, Dodgers or whoever

efin98

12-12-2005, 03:56 AM

L.A. supports winners no matter if it is the Kings , Lakers, Dodgers or whoever

I think that's true of pretty much all of the big cities with multiple teams.

If I am understanding this correctly a "baseball town" would pretty much have to be a city with another sport in it or close by. If that's true then there's really only a few cities that really qualify as a "baseball town"

Cleveland is the first one that comes to mind to me as a "baseball town". Since the old Browns left in 1996 the Indians have been top dog, eclipsing the new Browns and the Cavs...

Atanta is next, but with the recent rise of the Falcons and this past year's stumbling start and recent off season moves that may be changing...

Milwaukee is another, but only due to the Packers not exactly being a "Milwaukee" team...

Alot of the other cities mentioned are more of "sports towns" rather than "baseball towns". The fans love sports and support whatever team is winning like the Lakers or Dodgers in LA, the Giants or the 49ers in San Fransisco, the Yankees or the Jets or the Giants in New York...

brewcrew82

12-12-2005, 04:18 AM

St. Louis, New York, Atlanta, Philadelphia, Boston, Chicago, San Francisco, in no particular order. Oh yeah and Seattle.

Philly seems to me to be an Eagles town more than anything.

redlegsfan21

12-12-2005, 04:22 AM

I think Cincy probably would be a baseball town, if only because the Bengals have been bad for so long (until this year).
Cincinnati is a big baseball town. Even after a big win over the Steelers, the talk of the town was Casey. It was a front page story before the trade.

Captain Cold Nose

12-12-2005, 06:00 AM

Cincinnati is very much a baseball town. Detroit was for a long time, until the last decade or so.
Atlanta is in SEC country. It's probably more of a college football town than anything.
The one thing that told me Boston is a baseball town is when the Patriots won their first super bowl, the chants were about the Yankees and, ahem, a certain activity they were accused of doing.
How exactly are the LA Kings "winners"?

YOUgodofwalks

12-12-2005, 09:32 AM

Boston itself is not a Red Sox town nor even a Patriots town- it's long been the Bruins and Celtics at top teams.

The general "Boston area" is Patriots country, has been since 1995 or so. The Red Sox are the second team and rising but it is still far away from being the top. Even with the Red Sox making it to the ALCS in 2003 and winning the World Series in 2004, they got overshaddowed by the Patriots.

It has long been the Celtics and Bruins, but definately not recently.

As for the Patriots, they were the ones who were talking about being overshaddowed by the Red Sox in 2004. There were more people at the Red Sox championship parade then the any of the Patriots.

I think the answer is a town team changes with whos doing well at the time, of course when the Pats were losing they didn't have many fans, like the Celtics and Bruins now, while the Red Sox have ben going pretty strong for over 100 years...

Ex-Expo fan

12-12-2005, 09:40 AM

It seems that San Francisco may be underrated as a baseball town. I am speaking of right now when the 49ers team is absolutely horrendous and Barry Bonds is playing. I think the interest for a sport usually depends of the success of the city's team in that particular sport, so it changes through time. Of course city's like New York and St.Louis who have known the most successfull teams in the history of the sport are now more carved into the peoples minds and the effect is longer lasting.

Brooklyn

12-12-2005, 10:35 AM

If the Patriots are considered in Boston, I would think that Boston is a football town. Off the top of my head I can only think of one place where baseball is big and #1, New York City

While I agree that NYC is a baseball town, I don't think it meets eddies' criteria of "local baseball team is #1 and everything else does not come close"

Baseball is primary in NY, but football is a close second.

Tram2Lou

12-12-2005, 10:42 AM

Once the Detroit Tigers starts winning, we'll be a baseball town again. We we're Hockeytown, but the lockout hurt that. I would say that from what I can see, Detroit is a basketball town for the time being. So many football fans have just been turned off in the last few years (Thanks Matt Millen) so I don't think you can call Detroit a football town.

trosmok

12-12-2005, 11:01 AM

Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic
San Juan, Puerto Rico
Havana, Cuba

and believe it or not, the Dayton Dragons (AA Reds) sell out their entire stadium on a season ticket basis every single year. They have had 427 consecutive sold out games, and there really isn't a whole heck of a lot else to do in Dayton, Oh.

redlegsfan21

12-12-2005, 11:13 AM

trosmok

12-12-2005, 11:57 AM

First off, the Dragons are Class A. Dayton is more of a college basketball town, believe it or not. On a poll done by the Dayton Daily News, only 25% of fans actually knew the final score of the game.

Thanks for the correction, nascarfn5, I don't follow college hoops until March madness. I incorrectly assumed the Dragons were AA because of their facility (FifthThird), and their attendance. They are consistently in the top 10 of all minor league clubs, and my last trip through town we did the Toledo-Columbus-Dayton long baseball weekend. We had to buy scalper's tickets to see the Dragons, and my fellow traveller thought I was nuts to pay more than face for a minor league game. BTW, Did you see the Durbin v. Lawrence North H.S. game on espn2 last Thursday?

Elvis

12-12-2005, 12:20 PM

How exactly are the LA Kings "winners"?

'Cause we win a lot of games and draw big crowds.

Captain Cold Nose

12-12-2005, 12:53 PM

'Cause we win a lot of games and draw big crowds.
Thank you, Mr. Robitaille. That "a lot of games you've won" doesn't translate come playoff time, though. The Lakers and Dodgers have that tradition. I wouldn't so much put the Kings there with the teams that have the hardware. Must be the team nickname.

bake mcbride

12-12-2005, 03:47 PM

The first three are no-brainers: St. Louis, New York and Boston. I think you could make a case for a few others but I'm going to say Chicago because of the undying Cubs fans at Wrigley. And I understand that it's the experience of the park and the drinking and all that but the place is packed all the time and with the ChiSox taking it all this past October, perhaps that will carry over into 2006 and Chicago will cement fourth place on this list. I mean, hey, Chicagoans like their baseball and with that Bears offense, they'll be looking forward to spring training sooner than rather than later.

Gagne#3 8

12-12-2005, 05:15 PM

Thank you, Mr. Robitaille. That "a lot of games you've won" doesn't translate come playoff time, though. The Lakers and Dodgers have that tradition. I wouldn't so much put the Kings there with the teams that have the hardware. Must be the team nickname.

The Kings get alot of support like the Ducks in ANaheim.

In 93 when the Kings went to the Stanley Cup LA was going crazy for hockey

same as 2003 for the Ducks down in Orange County

Even are soccer temas get huge support and have very high attendance

No city is what you call a real baseball town like what Dallas and Green Bay are for football Montreal and Tornoto are for hockey

Gagne#3 8

12-12-2005, 05:20 PM

Being the #4 or #5 in team in the LA or NY market is better than being the #1 team in most markets

Captain Cold Nose

12-13-2005, 05:24 AM

Being the #4 or #5 in team in the LA or NY market is better than being the #1 team in most markets
Umm-hmm. Everyone is envious of the Clippers. :laugh
If that were truly the case, LA would still have pro football. LA has to take a back seat to Detroit (you really want to talk about hockey?) and Chicago when it comes to sports towns.
s

Jake83

12-13-2005, 08:49 AM

Umm-hmm. Everyone is envious of the Clippers. :laugh
If that were truly the case, LA would still have pro football. LA has to take a back seat to Detroit (you really want to talk about hockey?) and Chicago when it comes to sports towns.
s

The Clippers were 4th in the NBA in revenue last year.

The Rams and Raiders left because the city of LA wasn;t going to pay to renovate the Coliseum and the Rams tried to bully Anaheim into renovating Anaheim Staduim. There is a reason the NFL is giving LA 800 Million dollars that is right 800 million dollars to renovate the Coliseum. The city of LA doesn;t have to pay a dime and we get a NFL team most likely 2 with one playing in Orange County for free and we get a new staduim for our Olympic bid in 2016.

wilkerson_rulz-06

12-13-2005, 09:30 AM

'Cause we win a lot of games and draw big crowds.

Yeah right. Compare the 2002-2003 and 2003-2004 LA King's to this year's version.
If Pavol Demitra or Frolov go down, they're finished.
What a joke!

Now, the Montreal Canadiens are the team with the most attendance(sold out every game so far this season) and they're the best! Remember 24 STANLEY CUPS!!

Montreal Expos= 1994- World Series Champions :radio :waving

Expos Forever!

Clockwork

12-13-2005, 02:11 PM

New York and Boston are the biggest, than maybe LA and Chicago, St Louis and Atlanta are good too.

Philly used to be a huge baseball town for a very long time, it just doesn't appear that way because of the recent successes of the Eagles, and disappointments of the Phillies. I suspect if the Phillies actually begin contending for a title, or division, instead of being competitive, a lot of dormant hardcore Phillies fans will re-emerge. A lot of fans dislike the team management - see our board here as an example, and they're not the only ones.

Another reason is, I don't think the Phillies have marketed themselves well at all in New Jersey. Even south of Trenton I find just as many Mets fans as Phillies fans. Whereas, South Jersey is an Eagles strong-hold. It's really annoying to see just as many Mets and sometimes Yankees jerseys in sports stores.

sschirmer

12-13-2005, 03:04 PM

I feel with as many cities as I've lived in, and as long as I've been a fan, I can probably feel comfortable giving some insight here.

I was raised in Atlanta, and though I love the city, it is perhaps the worst sports town in America. I always thought that the fans there were fair weather, but the Braves can't even sell out playoff games. Atlanta just blows for supporting sports.
I was born not too far from Chicago, and still have quite a bit of family there. Chicago is a Cubs town, through and through. The Yuppy crowd has done a bit of taking over at Wrigley, but when you get into the heart of Chicago's sports scene, the fans know and love their baseball.
My best friend lives in NY, and I'm there several times a year. Great fans, very knowledgable. Matter of fact, NY is the only place I've ever been where fans can recite Spring Training stats off the top of their heads. Crazy.
I've lived in Cincinnati the past 15 years. Great, great baseball town. Not overly large, but they take great pride in the Reds. Fans here can get on my nerves, but I respect their loyalty.
My wife is from Cleveland. It's a crappy baseball town. The Jake had a mythical streak of sellouts due to the "perfect storm", as I like to call it. The Browns were gone, the Cavs sucked, the Tribe had some big name players and a new ballpark, and the economy was in great shape. The last season of the streak, half the seats were empty, but they were still "sellouts", as the tickets had already been sold. This past year, they had a great team, but trouble getting support. Cleveland is a Browns town.

Other good baseball towns I've seen in my travels for both work and pleasure are Boston and St. Louis. Baltimore isn't bad, but much like Cleveland, the new park made a ballgame "the social place to be" for a few years, artificially inflating attendance.

stlcardsfan73

12-13-2005, 03:41 PM

Easy. Look at the attendance versus population of the area the team is in. St Louis has attendance numbers that are much higher than they should be given the size of the city. The Yankees should have huge numbers, they have one of the biggest stadiums and the largest population to draw on - from that standpoint any time they don't lead in attendance is a failure. St Louis was third to only NY and LA. I think that's a credit to the town and the fans - let's face it compared to NY and LA St Louis is a town.

Edgartohof

12-13-2005, 03:43 PM

From '95 to the present (minust the last 2 years), baseball has been king in Seattle, but with the last couple years being down years, and with the rise of good teams in basketball AND football, they are no longer #1. I guess Seattle is more of a SPORTS town than just focused on baseball. We have the trifecta (baseball-football-basketball) and hockey and soccer (the Seattle Sounders don't get as much attention, but they do have a small but steady following).

But the fans still do support the Mariner's - here are their rankings in attendance from '96-'05:

1996 - 3rd
1997 - 4th
1998 - 5th
1999 - 4th
2000 - 4th
2001 - 1st
2002 - 1st
2003 - 2nd
2004 - 3rd
2005 - 4th

And their attendance was never lower than 2.65 million, and topped off at 3.5 million

redlegsfan21

12-14-2005, 04:25 AM

redlegsfan21

12-14-2005, 04:44 AM

I just found this thread. I don't know if it will help though.
http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=26940

sschirmer

12-14-2005, 06:40 AM

I don't think attentance is a good judgement factor. Cincinnati creates a great baseball town because the amount of attention on baseball, not the attenance at GABP. Fans understand their history, sit out on porches and listen to ballgames, and voice their opinion strongly for the betterment of the local baseball club. I think these are the qualities of a great baseball town.

Great post. I couldn't agree more, though I do believe attendance is a factor, particularly when the team isn't doing that well. It is my heart felt belief that St. Louis fans and Cubs fans would go to the park regardless. I do, however, totally agree with you on the understanding of the game and radio listening. I remember when I moved to Cincinnati, I couldn't get over how anyone you came up to on the street would know the score of the Reds game. Totally awsome.

I would probably say the top five baseball towns are:
St. Louis
Cincinnati
Chicago
Boston
New York

Jake83

12-14-2005, 07:42 AM

Look at attendance, revenue, Amount of major leaguers LA is at the top of the list. The Dodgers owned LA untill the 80's and will own LA again someday.

Bluesteve32

12-14-2005, 07:59 AM

Look at attendance, revenue, Amount of major leaguers LA is at the top of the list. The Dodgers owned LA untill the 80's and will own LA again someday.

You'll notice that the so called "baseball towns" normally mentioned are those city that were lucky enough to have major league baseball from 1901 or earlier. Once again, West Coast bias is rearing its ugly head. The amount of players from the So Cal area, the attendance of the Dodgers and even the Angels, the old PCL rivalry between the Stars and Angels, USC's dominace in 1950s and 1960 NACC baseball, definately make this a baseball town among the sports enthusiasts.

For some reason all that seems to get poo-pooed by those Easterners who think that all we do here is surf and Hollywood types. Baseball is king in this town, just listen to talk radio and the local newscasts' sports segments. Well, they tend to diminish the USC-UCLA rivalry in this town, too. Imagine another city that has two major college football team in the same conference and over the decaded, vying for conference and even National titles in the same city some 12 miles apart?

Zito75

12-14-2005, 09:26 AM

St. Louis, New York, Atlanta, Philadelphia, Boston, Chicago, San Francisco, in no particular order. Oh yeah and Seattle.

I lived in Seattle till 2004. I can tell you that nobody there liked the M's much till Griffey came aboard in '89, then all the "fans" came out of the woodwork in '95. Interest there has died off somewhat, but Ichiro is still a big draw and keeps fans coming to the games. Since the 'Hawks are going to the Superbowl this year (according to folks back home) they are the pride of the Northwest now.

thenextsuperstar

12-14-2005, 02:43 PM

Boston itself is not a Red Sox town nor even a Patriots town- it's long been the Bruins and Celtics at top teams.

The general "Boston area" is Patriots country, has been since 1995 or so. The Red Sox are the second team and rising but it is still far away from being the top. Even with the Red Sox making it to the ALCS in 2003 and winning the World Series in 2004, they got overshaddowed by the Patriots.

Ah...the red sox have been all the talk recently even in the middle of the Patriots/ Celtics/ Bruins seasons. Red Sox are #1.

The general Boston fan might just be a red sox fan, but this true of every city. Think you will find just as many pure baseball fans in Boston as anywhere else.

New York is a baseball city (of course they haven't had much success in anything else recently;) . The New Jersey Devils don't count)

Chicago is a Cubs city. I spent a lot time there. The White Sox got pratcly no attention until the playoffs.

Seattle is becoming decent baseball city.
Philly is a great sports town
Toronto, Detriot, KC, Pittsburg, Cincy, and BAltimore were all good baseballl towns (when their teams were good).

sschirmer

12-14-2005, 05:55 PM

I lived in Seattle till 2004. I can tell you that nobody there liked the M's much till Griffey came aboard in '89, then all the "fans" came out of the woodwork in '95. Interest there has died off somewhat, but Ichiro is still a big draw and keeps fans coming to the games. Since the 'Hawks are going to the Superbowl this year (according to folks back home) they are the pride of the Northwest now.

Absolutely correct! You are right on.
As for the LA market, I really haven't spent much time there. I went to a couple of Angels games back in 1999 & 2000. The park was okay, but the fans did nothing to impress me. I think the Dodgers draw well, but the fans don't show up until the third and leave by the seventh, so I'm not sure what that says. In talking to my customers in CA, I never seem to sense much passion. Maybe people in LA have too many entertainment options to be overly passionate.

ElHalo

12-14-2005, 06:08 PM

Ex-Expo fan

12-14-2005, 07:23 PM

Gamingboy

12-14-2005, 09:35 PM

Let's see:

St. Louis is definitely the biggest. The Cardinals are a religion in St. Louis, as far as I can tell.

Cincy is a baseball town, especially on Opening Day.

New York City is a Baseball town.

LA is a Baseball Town between the 3rd and 7th inning of every game.

Houston is a emerging Baseball town.

redlegsfan21

12-15-2005, 04:24 AM

Seattle is becoming decent baseball city.
Philly is a great sports town
Toronto, Detriot, KC, Pittsburg, Cincy, and BAltimore were all good baseballl towns (when their teams were good).
Cincinnati is horrible, yet it is still the talk of the town, we are going to stink next year, yet baseball is still the talk of the town, the Bengals are playoff bound, yet Reds baseball is the most popular.

As Gamingboy said, Cincinnati shuts down on opening day. We stick to traditions. Cincinnati has a parade on the first Monday in April to celebrate Reds baseball. I don't know of any town that has had a parade to celebrate their baseball team every year. Opening Day tickets are most likely to be rarer than Bengal playoff tickets.

Zito75

12-15-2005, 07:32 AM

I've been convinced LA wasn't a baseball town ever since the same thing happened to me at BOTH Dodger and Angels games: I started jeering and yelling (nothing profane, wanted to take it easy on the Left Coasters; this wasn't the Bronx), and within ten seconds people politely asked me if I could be quiet... at the Dodgers' game, it was so that a guy could continue his cell phone conversation next to me.

Sorry, that's not real baseball.

Dude, that's awesome. And in Seattle, you can buy Starbucks at several places in Safeco, then find a wireless hotspot with your laptop, while watching little Johnny play in the virtual reality arcade. That's baseball to folks back home in Seattle. (not to mention all under a closed roof in June)

trosmok

12-15-2005, 08:41 AM

I thought Kansas City was one of the best places for baseball ever since my first visit to the Royals' ballpark. I know the Chiefs and hoops are huge, too, but the ghosts of the glory days of George Brett et.al., are still there. Hope the team can turn it around in '06, but I can't picture Mark Redman or their other acquisitions being their saviour du jour.

Scoops

12-15-2005, 01:04 PM

Toronto, Detriot, KC, Pittsburg, Cincy, and BAltimore were all good baseballl towns (when their teams were good).

Toronto may be a good baseball town when the Jays are good, but it's a great hockey town even when the Leafs are bad. It's a hockey city, anything else can only hope for second place.

Jake83

12-15-2005, 02:26 PM

I've been convinced LA wasn't a baseball town ever since the same thing happened to me at BOTH Dodger and Angels games: I started jeering and yelling (nothing profane, wanted to take it easy on the Left Coasters; this wasn't the Bronx), and within ten seconds people politely asked me if I could be quiet... at the Dodgers' game, it was so that a guy could continue his cell phone conversation next to me.

Sorry, that's not real baseball.

That does not prove LA is not a baseball town. What did you want someone to dump a beer on your head.

redlegsfan21

12-16-2005, 04:32 AM

If you are not allowed to cheer at a baseball game, then how is it a baseball game. The roar of the crowd is one of the many factors that make a baseball game.

Russ

12-16-2005, 06:20 AM

Baltimore is still a great baseball town, even if Angelos is trying to kill the birds. Philly is very much a baseball town. Hockey is REALLY big there too. I think football and baseball are hard to compare. In any city, you have 81 home baseball games a year and only 8 football. I would bet that if baseball only played once a week for 16 weeks the passion and the attendance would be equal that of football in these other places. But baseball is a marathon and you can't expect pennant race or playoffs passion every day for 6 months. Here's my list:

Baltimore
NY
Philly
Detroit
San Diego
LA
Boston
SF
Cincy
Houston
ATL

Not bad, really. Baseball is definitely on the upswing now.

catbox_9

04-12-2007, 06:56 PM

Detroit is a pretty good baseball town, too. Now that the team knows how to win again they're pretty popular. Detroit has the Red Wings (hockeytown), Pistons, and Lions and they're all pretty popular. The Lions continue to sell out every game despite the fact they haven't won a game in 20 years (or so it seems).

STLCards2

04-12-2007, 07:18 PM

I guarantee you that if St.Louis was only able to keep one franchise, and the Rams went to four straight Super Bowls, and the Cardinals were in last place all four seasons, a hugs majority of people here would kiss the Rams goodbye. That is a baseball town.

holyroman

04-12-2007, 10:36 PM

Houston is definately a football town first. Even with our miserable squad!

But it's coming up as a baseball town. Winning will do that. a trip to the world series will do that. Elite players bring excitement. I've been going to at least 10 ballgames a year ( i know not a lot, I blame HI-DEf TV's) since about 1991 hear in Houston. It's only in the last year or two that we started booing our own players. I know that may sound bckwards to some but that is a noticible change. Having success raises expectations of the fans, thats when you know it's a baseball town too. I personally don't boo. I express my passion in other ways at the game, but it has come with all the excitement of winning in the playoffs.