Question: most disappointing player ever

[baseball junkie]

Which player, positional or pictcher, after initially showing signs of brilliance in the major leagues was the most disappointing to you over the coures of their career? (So we'll be talking prospects here. We're not talking about people who took steroids to enhance performance or drugs that messed up their carrers or did other stupid off the field things.)

Four players' names immediately pop into my head in no particular order. The first is 1989 NL ROY Jerome Walton, 23. While playing a more than adequate center field, Walton cracked 139 base hits, averaging .293 and stealing 24 bases -- serving as the catalyst for the Cubs to win the NL East Division Championship, in which he hit .364. After that season it was all downhill for Walton.

The second player that leaps to mind is Ricky Jordan, 23. He was a first baseman that could hit for power and average. He had great plate discipline. He rarely struck out and took a good number of walks for a rookie. He was the brightest star in the Phillies Organization until about 1990.

That brings me to the brightest and therefore most disappointing positional player, Mike Greenwell. Greenwell took over in RF for Yastremski and Williams. Unfortunately he couldn't follow in their foot-steps for more than a few years. Greenwell was a Silver Slugger in 1988, an All-Star in 1988 and 1989. He broke also broke through at 23 and had a great combination of power and speed.

'87 .328 BA 19 HR 89 RBI (23 years old)
'88 .325 BA 22 HR 119 RBI (24 years old)
'89 .308 BA 15 HR 95 RBI (25 years old)

After that it was all down hill. Greenwell played until 1996, his entire career in Boston and ended his career with a .303 BA and 130 HR. What is so disappointing about him is how great he could have been -- along with Walton and Jordan.

Now the fourth player and only pitcher that really comes to mind is Seattle Mariners southpaw Dave Fleming. At the age of 22 he won 17 games and posted a 3.39 ERA on a team that lost 98 games and finished 7th in the AL West. Fleming put these numbers up in the Kingdome, which had a park factor that favors hitters. At 23 he won another 12 games and by 25 he was out of baseball.

So for me, the most disappointing player I've ever seen was Mike Greenwell.

[Jake83]

How about Chad Curtis was a brilliant player with the Angels early in his carrer was traded to the Detriot Tigers in 1995 and flamed out

Ben Grieve ROY in 98 I believe with the Oakland A's was traded to Tampa in 2002 and flamed out

[GaryL]

Kerry Wood for sure. All the hype (and money) and very little to show for it so far.

[ElHalo]

I think the easy answer here is Pete Reiser, who was supposed to be better than Joe DiMaggio.

Other choices:

Joe Wood (arguably the best pitcher ever through age 22)
Russ Ford (late start, then was brilliant for his first two seasons before dissappearing)
Bill Lange (a lot of people said that he was the best player they ever saw; had to leave the game when he got married and his new father in law said he couldn't play baseball any more)

[ElCaminoSS]

Kerry Wood is a good choice, but what about Daryl Strawberry?

[Jake83]

Kerry Wood is a good choice, but what about Daryl Strawberry?


Wood, Strawberry, Gooden Maybe Prior.

All these players still had or are having decent carrers

Disappointing is more a player who had 1 or 2 great years then disappers.

But everyone may have a different opinion on the question

[ElCaminoSS]

I guess he had a decent career, but nothing compared to what he could have had, same with Gooden. Both were easy Hall of Famers if they werent all doped up.

[Bluesteve32]

I have a few names:

"Super" Joe Charbeneau (great rookie season and then....)
David Clyde (everybodys first draft choice...brought up too early)
John Castino (one good season and then.....)
Clint Hurdle (was supposed to be the next star player for the Royals)
Mark Fydrich (flamed out as fast as he came out)
Steve McCatty (a victim of Billyball's overuse?)
Rick Reichardt (big bonus baby, never reached the potential)
Bobby Valentine (Broke leg on Big A's fence was never the same player)
Paul Schaal (beaning hurt career)
Don Mincher (another can't miss but had some very ordinary years)

[Jake83]

How about fomer Cal League pitcher Steve Dalkowski. Legend was he could throw 120 mph but he drank like a horse and had numerous women involved in his life. A very interesting story. He was voted one of the greatest 100 baseball players ever without playing in a major league game

[racosun]

For me, it was Matt Nokes. The way he started his career (second in ROY voting, next to Mark McGwire) I thought for sure he was a future HOF'er. He even had a great hitter's park to play his career in, but he never could duplicate that rookie year.

[steveox]

Sammy Sosa when he came to baltimore.:mad:

[iPod]

He was voted one of the greatest 100 baseball players ever without playing in a major league game

What list are you talking about?

[Jake83]

What list are you talking about?

It was in a book Sporting News wrote at the turn of the century I believe

You may find it on the internet

[iPod]

It was in a book Sporting News wrote at the turn of the century I believe

You may find it on the internet

Sporting News did put out a book that was just a list of the top 100 players in history, but I've never heard that Dalkowski was on that list. I know for a fact he's not on the revised list that they just put out, because I own the revision.

Maybe you're confusing it with this...

http://www.sportingnews.com/archives/sports2000/players/175838.html

For the book "Baseball's 100 Greatest Players", The Sporting News asked several former players and managers to rank their top ten in various categories. Former big-league manager Gene Mauch selected the hardest throwing pitchers he ever saw and the list included some of the usual suspects: Nolan Ryan, Roger Clemens and Bob Feller. However, at No. 5 on that list was a name that made probably made many people go, "Huh?": Steve Dalkowski.

[ballparks]

Great points on Greenwell, Gooden and Straw.
I'd have to say as far as recent years anyways I'd put Rick Ankiel on top of the list.
.....and what ever happened to Brien Taylor....

[ThePeach]

How about Benny Kauff? He was suppossed to be the "Ty Cobb" of the Federal League, but when he entered the majors not much materialzed for him. I think he also had some other troubles out side of baseball that got hiim kicked out, but my memory isn't clear on the details now.

[Brian McKenna]

well - about 90% of the guys sparky anderson hyped as the next coming of god

but in baltimore we gave pete harnish, steve finley and that red sox pitcher with the bloody foot for glenn davis and davis immediately went into the crapper

then, a little later we signed albert belle

[hudsonharden]

Brien Taylor, anyone?

[trosmok]

Some through no fault of their own, and I'd wager they are far more disappointed than any fan can imagine.

'94 ROY Bob Hamelin looked to be the next big thing at 1B or DH, but especially with the stick. $3million a year ghost.

'95 ROY Marty Cordova, OF/DH same deal. One good season, a couple decent ones, then ?

Mitch "pitch like my hair is on fire" Williams. When he went to the Phills from my Cubs, I thought Oh Great! He'll probably win the WS final game, now.:p

Of course, poor Ernie Broglio couldn't have known he was damaged goods, could he?

[Captin Warm Nose]

Alex Sung!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[trosmok]

Sammy Sosa when he came to baltimore.:mad:

Whoa! I was bedy, bedy disappointed in him before that. His cork incident I could forgive because all his other bats tested clean. I still believe he wouldn't put any unnatural illegal substance in his body so I can overlook that his physique seems, um, er, altered? His hissy fit when he boogied out of Wrigley before the last game really tore it with me, and then looking at his declining numbers, I really feel for the good folks in Baltimore. I even have a like new cap and jersey with the Orange and Black bird that I didn't get much of a chance to wear after the all-star break.

[dgarza]

Snuffy Stirnweiss : 205 hits his 1st full season (.319) & 55 steals
Had an equally good follow-up year.
Then was never as good.
Didn't even get to bat in his final "year."

[dgarza]

Sam Jethroe - even though he was in his 30s by the time the National League took him and most of his best years were spent in the NLs, I'm sure people thought he would last longer than only 3 full MLB years.

[dgarza]

Steve Ontiveros
Joe Magrane
Randy Jones
Mario Soto

[Lindseynelson]

I'll go with the tag team of Doc and Straw. Both were special, so special they let talent beat thier demons for some brilliant baseball but in the end two guys who were on the HOF fasttrack became sideshows

[Barnstormer]

Snuffy Stirnweiss : 205 hits his 1st full season (.319) & 55 steals
Had an equally good follow-up year.
Then was never as good.
Didn't even get to bat in his final "year."

Good one - he had 26 black ink points, all in those two years! (Granted they were WWII years). Died in a train wreck at age 39 when a Jersey commuter train plunged into the Newark Bay.

[Buzzaldrin]

I think the easy answer here is Pete Reiser, who was supposed to be better than Joe DiMaggio.

Other choices:

Joe Wood (arguably the best pitcher ever through age 22)
Russ Ford (late start, then was brilliant for his first two seasons before dissappearing)
Bill Lange (a lot of people said that he was the best player they ever saw; had to leave the game when he got married and his new father in law said he couldn't play baseball any more)

You can't count Reiser, Ford, and Wood as guys like Charboneau and Nokes. That's just not fair. Hell, Ford invented the emery ball, and he was a great pitcher for several years until the AL banned emery balls in 1915 (not 1920 like spitters and shiners). THAT ended his career.

Smokey Joe and Pistol Pete were done in by injuries. I thought this thread was for guys that just couldn't continue to cut it.

How about George Watkins? Hit .373 as a rookie- lasted another five years or so, only once topping .300, or Clint Hartung- the "Hondo Hurricane"- so good Casey Stengel thought he should go straight to Cooperstown instead of wasting his time playing. "They said he could field like Dick Sisler and hit like Johnny Mize; it turned out he fielded like Dick Stuart and hit like Casey Wise."- tell me that's not the best quote ever! (note- he spent most of his short ML career pitching badly although he was supposed to be the next Ruth)

Charlie Kerfeld, Kevin Maas, man this coud go on forever.

[dgarza]

Vince Coleman!

Marv Throneberry - 1.500 SLG in 1955 :p

Sam Horn - this guy was up an down everywhere

I don't Fred Lynn has been mentioned yet, which scares me.

[ElHalo]

If you just want to take "ratio of first season production to the rest of his career," you have to go with Shane Spencer.

[dgarza]

What happened to Vean Gregg?

[thenextsuperstar]

David Clyde promoted straight to the Big Leagues from High School (only to be rocked by major league pitching) by a greedy owner hoping to draw fans. Ruined one of the best pitching prospects ever.

[Buzzaldrin]

I think I'm missing something here. Vean Gregg had two great seasons after his worlds-best rookie year- these guys- Gregg, Vince Coleman, etc. were not "whatever happened to" guys- the guys we're looking for are the Charboneaus of the world, or am I wrong?

[baseball junkie]

No you're right. Vince Coleman doesn't exactly fit the category. He played too long and stole 752 bases. There are only six guys ranked ahead of Coleman in stolen bases: Rickey Henderson (1,406), Lou Brock (938), Billy Hamilton (912), Ty Cobb (882), and Tim Raines (808) -- all of whom are either in the Hall of Fame or will be one day.

[letsgocubbies]

Well personally for me its been kerry wood; all that potential wasted on the DL

[Go Bravos!!!#1]

Josh Hamilton

[TonyK]

Billy Rohr. Who, you ask? In 1967, he was a 21-yr old rookie LHP on the Red Sox. On April 14th, in his ML debut, he pitched a one-hitter spoiled by an Elston Howard hit late in the game. I was at the next game he pitched and again Elston Howard spoiled his shutout, but I think he won the game. It was about 35 degrees that night.

After his 2-0 start, he finished the season 2-3, and went 1-0 for Cleve in 1968, and then he was out of the majors. He was compared to several great lefties by the press and I thought for sure he would be a 15 game winner.

[eastchicagosoxfan]

Lamar Hoyt was a brilliant pitcher, and he simply flamed out as a result of drug abuse. He won the 1983 Cy Young with the White Sox, was traded to San Diego in 1985 for Ozzie Guillen, and fell off the map. I also always throw Daryl Boston into these discussions. He was suppossed to be a great five-tool player, and he managed a ten year career based on potential alone. He never produced.

[dgarza]

Which player, positional or pictcher, after initially showing signs of brilliance in the major leagues was the most disappointing to you over the coures of their career?

The first is 1989 NL ROY Jerome Walton, 23.

The second player that leaps to mind is Ricky Jordan, 23.

That brings me to the brightest and therefore most disappointing positional player, Mike Greenwell.

Now the fourth player and only pitcher that really comes to mind is Seattle Mariners southpaw Dave Fleming.
This suggests that we are not looking for the Charboneaus of the world.
We are looking for players with actual careers. I don't think Charbeoneau had a "course of his career" to even talk about.

If Mike Greenwell fits (12 years), Vince Coleman fits (13 years).

[baseball junkie]

Yeah but my point in including Greenwell is he could have been so great and just wasn't. Coleman at least achieved some level of greatness -- even if he was only great at swiping bases.

In fact, if I'm not mistaken Coleman still holds the record for consecutive seasons with over 100 SB -- three straight years. That's quite a significant achievement. Greenwell never managed anything like that, although it seemed like he was destined to do something great.

[Jake83]

It is Steve Dalkowski by far. No player has had his talent and never produced on the diamond

[Buzzaldrin]

Dalkowski never pitched a single game in the majors. He didn't disappoint anybody.

[Jake83]

He was disappointing because he had all the talent and never performed

A poster child for Most Dissapointing Ever

[The Splendid Splinter]

Billy Beane....



and come on Todd Van Poppel.....


then for the Cubs... Corey Patterson

[Solair Wright]

Bob Hamelin and Einar Diaz, no doubts. Hamelin was supposed to be a very good DH, and I heard his career abruptly ended in 1999 (and he won AL-RoY in '94). Einar never caught my interest, and his hitting power is nowhere near Yadier Molina's, which made him an insufficient catcher. And he's not even a rookie, (he joined 9/9/96) what's worse. I saw him at Busch Stadium go 0 for 3 before being beaned.

[Bench 5]

One of the biggest disappointments that I can remember was George Foster when he signed a huge contract in 1982 to join the Mets. He was the 1st $2 million per year man and he wound up only hitting 13 homers in 1982. He was a huge disappointment the next few years. Considering how great he was in the late 70's that was a surprise.

Another guy that was a big disappointment was Jaimie Navarro when he joined the Sox in 1997. He had a couple good years prior to that and they paid him about $5.5 million per year. He put up 3 of the worst years in major league history with an ERA over 6.00. Brutal. :ughh

[Blackout]

shane spencer

[Dravecky43]

I think any number one overall pick in the draft that didn't do anything has to be considered, excluding players from the last 4 or 5 drafts. Brien Taylor has already been mentioned, and so has Josh Hamilton, so I'll throw out the FIRST number one not to make the Bigs: Steve Chilcott (#1 by Mets in 1966-- one spot ahead of...Reggie Jackson). At the time he was drafted, he was a 5'11", 175 lb, 17 y.o. catcher. Multiple injuries kept him to only 331 minor league games over 6 seasons.

[Brian McKenna]

red sox fans are never happy - a solid player like greenwell and they are disappointed - all those newspapers up there and never a nice thing to say - they never liked ted williams or jim rice either

you want good starts that dropped way off:

fred lynn
ben mcdonald
greg olsen - and a host of relievers
carlos baerga
mark fidrych

[Chisox]

I don't remember if this applies, necessarily, but Dave Silvestri and Gerald Williams both scored very high on my '92 Tony LaRussa video game talent ratings. Everytime I was the Yanks (or played them), I had Gerald in CF over Bernie and Silvestri at SS over I don't remember. Williams scored a perfect 12/12 in both speed and power, while Silvestri scored 12/12 power and 11/12 speed, the highest two there were in the game. Maybe a Yanks fan can help out.

[FatAngel]

Spencer couldn´t contain his inner demons.
Cesar Cedeno - despite having a long and distinguished 16 year career, he never came remotely close to his age 21&22 seasons. Although had kind of a comeback year in 1980.

[dgarza]

You know, Wally Joyner did not have a bad career, but I don't really think he turned out as everyone thought he could.

Cory Snyder also.

[ElHalo]

You know, Wally Joyner did not have a bad career, but I don't really think he turned out as everyone thought he could.

Cory Snyder also.

Wally Joyner is part of the answer to one of my favorite trivia questions:

Who are the only players since WWII to post 100 RBI's in each of their first two seasons?

Joyner is one of three.

[dgarza]

Oh, I just have to mention Lloyd Waner.

[dgarza]

Wally Joyner is part of the answer to one of my favorite trivia questions:

Who are the only players since WWII to post 100 RBI's in each of their first two seasons?

Joyner is one of three.
Jablonski & Pujols are the other Joyners.

[eastchicagosoxfan]

It is Steve Dalkowski by far. No player has had his talent and never produced on the diamond
If I recall correctly, Dalkowski was mentally disabled. I think Earl Weaver managed him in the minors, and realized that Dalkowski was " slow ". If that was the case, mentally, Dalkowski was probably in way over his head. He could throw, but pitching effectively, was probably beyond his capabilities.

[Buzzaldrin]

Oh, I just have to mention Lloyd Waner.

Love him or hate him, but if you're in the Hall of Fame, you're NOT a disappointment. That's just a fact of life.

[ScrewBll45]

David Clyde could have been good, but Billy Martin didnt help. Billy hated 3 kinds of people

1.Kids
2.Pitchers
3. People who got more attention

David had all 3 strikes.

One look at David's numbers from his senior year of high school and you get a hint of what he was capable of.

Clyde's senior year- Westchester High School, 1972

ERA= 0.18

Games won= 18
Games lost=0

5 No-Hitters

He struck out 3 out of every 4 batters he faced.

Then he gets rushed to the bigs by Bob Short(a lesser and stupider Bill Veeck) and it just goes to heck in a hand basket.

[Zito75]

If I recall correctly, Dalkowski was mentally disabled. I think Earl Weaver managed him in the minors, and realized that Dalkowski was " slow ". If that was the case, mentally, Dalkowski was probably in way over his head. He could throw, but pitching effectively, was probably beyond his capabilities.

He infact drank himself into dementia. I'm not sure if he had the drinking before he played ball, but he was definitely an alcoholic by the time he was done playing in the minors. Sad story.

[It's Over The Wall!]

Kevin Maas Was On PAce To Break MAris's Record As A Rookie Then Couldn't Adjust...

[BeatEmBucs]

I think it's fitting that this thread mention the only guy to be the #1 overall pick TWICE (1971 AND 1975) His name was Danny Goodwin, and while he made the majors he didn't amount to much. Think of all the hall of famers who were selected well behind this guy, guess he was one of those "five tool" players that just couldn't put it together in the big leagues.

Another disappointment is Francisco Cordova, the catalyst for the Bucs near division title and closest to 500 finish since 1992 back in 1997. He and Ricardo Rincon combined for the only 10-inning no hitter in MLB history so far. Had an OK 98 going 13-14 for a 93 loss team. Then fell off the planet after 2001. I thought I read he was one of the minor leaguers who were suspended for steroids last year, but that may have been a different Francisco Cordova.

[redmask]

Rick Ankiel and JD Drew: I think we can come up with a bunch of hyped up players just looking at Scott Boras's fiscal revenues. JD Drew: I have seen him swing and hit but this guy can injure his groin tying his left shoe he's so fragile.

Rick Ankiel: Just the money and the hyped up season that culminated into the worst pitched start in playoff history is the greatest template of how quickly the good and bad can come to a player in baseball.

Trot Nixon: This guy was suppose to be a great hitter. Hell, the cubs were about to send him to Boston during Sosa's chemical rampage. I wonder to this day whether each team regrets not making that trade.

Tony Armas Jr.: People ar going to go like "who????". This was a highly touted prospect for the yanks. the red sox end up getting him ( forgot the whole story), and he's traded for Pedro Martinez in his prime. Pedro Martinez in his prime! He has always been injury porne but he is supposedly was marked as a straight up ace for any organization (including the yanks) that had him on the farm.

byung kim: C'mon, this dude threw his fastball between 84-98 mph submarine. Just his range to allow it to slide at 80, then come at you with a 96 blazer just screwed with so many hitters. Those two great seasons with the diamondbacks were amazing especially because he was just so hard to hit. The question that comes to mind when thinking about Kim: How many closer's careers have been wrecked by the Yankees playoff onslaught these last 15 years?

[redmask]

Osvaldo Fernandez: he was good but came to the big leagues a lil too late ( peter gammons said there were reports he mightve been 47).

ariel prieto: Another guy who everyone waited to shine out of oakland before they got the 3 biggies. He shut out the red sox on 80 pitches once. amazing pitcher, right now watching conan.

orlando hernandez: Ive been waiting 10 years for this guy to be the number 1 for the team. those world series rings probably can take him off the board though.

Hideo Nomo: remember nomo-mania? I think I have a t-shirt in my closet still.

Hideki Irabu: playing your first game in Yankee Stadium should be a contest in Fear factor.

Manny Alexander: You should have something going for your in a career that started with replacing Cal Ripken at short and pushing him to 3rd base. At least he was good for those high pop-ups with runners on-base in the 7th. How I miss those good times.

Steve Avery: Leo Mazzone can't save them all...

[Cubano100%]

Osvaldo Fernandez: he was good but came to the big leagues a lil too late ( peter gammons said there were reports he mightve been 47).

ariel prieto: Another guy who everyone waited to shine out of oakland before they got the 3 biggies. He shut out the red sox on 80 pitches once. amazing pitcher, right now watching conan.

orlando hernandez: Ive been waiting 10 years for this guy to be the number 1 for the team. those world series rings probably can take him off the board though.

Hideo Nomo: remember nomo-mania? I think I have a t-shirt in my closet still.

Hideki Irabu: playing your first game in Yankee Stadium should be a contest in Fear factor.

Manny Alexander: You should have something going for your in a career that started with replacing Cal Ripken at short and pushing him to 3rd base. At least he was good for those high pop-ups with runners on-base in the 7th. How I miss those good times.

Steve Avery: Leo Mazzone can't save them all...

Don't forget that many Cuban and Japanese players have left their best years in their homeland.

Osvaldo Fernandez played 11 season in Cuba. Ariel Prieto played 10 seasons and had some arm problems in Cuba too. Orlando Hernandez played 10 season as well. His MLB record is 70 and 49 with 4.11 ERA. He has played 7 season in the USA. That is a total of 17 seasons in addition the time he was banned from baseball in Cuba after his half brother Livan Hernandez defected. So is he 36 or 40? From now on, his record will deteriorate. He needs to become a relief pitcher if he wants to keep pitching at this age.
None of them were the number one starter in the Cuban National team. El Duke was not even the number one in his Cuban National League team: The Industriales Lions, The New York Yankees of Cuba. Lazaro Valle was the number one starter. At one point, the Industriales had Valle, El Duke and Rene Arocha all in their primes.

Lazaro Valle pitched against a Puerto Rican team that had Alomar, Baerga, Juan Gonzalez, Edgar Martinez, a young Javy Lopez and a few other I have forgotten. He threw 8 innings of 1 run ball and 3 hits all broken bats with several SO.

Rene Arocha was the first Cuban defector. He played for the Cardinals after playing 11 seasons in Cuba. He also had several arm problems prior his defection. He began his career in the Cuban league at the age of 15. Of course, he did not pitch much at that time.

El Duke does not have any more places to keep his trophies and rings from his times in Cuba and in the USA.

Orlando "El Duke" Hernandez (Mr. October)

3 World Series Rings with The New York Yankees
1999 ALCS MVP with The New York Yankees
1 World Series Ring with The Chicago White Sox
Post Season Record 9 wins 3 loses 2.55 ERA (One of the best ever)


Remember that until recently, Cuba did not use pitch counts. So at some points your body will suffer. Unlike other foreing players, Cuban and Japanese players are expected to contribute right away. What are the chances of having a 30 year plus guy going through an adjusment period in the minors? Adjustment period: Learning the culture, language, food while playing high competition.

Another thing going against the Cuban players is the fact that the Cuban government retains their families for a long time. Other players can come with their families and go back to their countries once the season is over.
Other foreing players come in their teens and have time to adjust.


One last thing about Prieto. In 2005, he played for the Marlins AAA.

http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=A%20Prieto&pos=P&t=p_pbp&did=milb&pid=120768

Prieto is now playing winter ball in Mexico.

[Blackout]

Shane Spencer

10 home runs in his first 33 at-bats as a pro

[Pine Tar]

I'll go with Greg Jefferies, didn't he get a Sports Illustrated cover and was going to be the next Pete Rose?

Also, Ben McDonald was supposed to be the next Clemens but ended up being the next Al Nipper.

And Teddy Higuero had a great first four years in the league and then nothing.

There really are a ton of players like this. How about Glenn Davis? Didn't he get vertigo or something and then stopped hitting? What's up with that?

Or how about Kevin Seitzer? He was supposed to be George Brett but ended up being Greg Jefferies.

Cory Snyder, Greg Swindell, Bob Hamelin, Sam Horn, Greg Walker, Chris Sabo, Steve Avery, Denny McLain, Phil Plantier, Carlos Quintana, and Willie Mays Aikens is a particularly sad one.

These are just some that come to mind. Some of these guys had good careers but just didn't live up to the hype.

[Captain Cold Nose]

And Teddy Higuero had a great first four years in the league and then nothing.

There really are a ton of players like this. How about Glenn Davis? Didn't he get vertigo or something and then stopped hitting? What's up with that?


You can add Juan Nieves to the list. Like Higuera, another Brewer pitcher with promise that just didn't pan out. He tossed a no-no in one of his first starts.

Not sure about Davis, but Nick Esasky did get vertigo. Probably through the mind control of Pete Rose, who probably couldn't handle the fact Esasky was doing well after Rose could no longer hold him back.

[hudsonharden]

What about Toe Nash? Is he still in the minors? Is Jeffrey Allison still pitching?

[redmask]

cubano, that was one of the best replies i've ever gotten. serious, i knew some
of the situations you stated; its good to see others understand what foreign players have to go through. My whole point was more based on the money factor and what management + fans expected from these players going into the twilight of their careers.

[Cubano100%]

cubano, that was one of the best replies i've ever gotten. serious, i knew some
of the situations you stated; its good to see others understand what foreign players have to go through. My whole point was more based on the money factor and what management + fans expected from these players going into the twilight of their careers.


I think the problem is the lack of info on Cuban players. Teams also must do their homework before creating big expectations that are difficult to fulfill. Prieto was mediocre back home and used to throw really hard. At one point he was the hardest thrower back home but he injured himself and was not the same. As you can see, he had a 4.47 ERA for Los Toronjeros de la Isla de La Juventud (Grapefruit Croppers) his team in the Cuban National League. That team is located in the Isle of Youth, which is the smaller island below Cuba. His team has never won a championship, but this year the Grapefruit Croppers are in first place in group 1 in the West League. Hopefully, all of you do not mind the extra info I included.

http://www.discoveringcuba.com/sun_beach/index.htm?src=overture&OVRAW=cuban%20beaches&OVKEY=cuban%20beach&OVMTC=standard

These are his Cuban stats:

Ariel Prieto

Series W L ERA IP Opp. Ave K BB Win % Saves
10 67 66 4.47 1043.1 271 860 525 0.504 0


Ariel Prieto is now playing for 'Los Tigres(Tigers) de Aragua' in Venezuela. He was signed for the playoff run. Miguel Cabrera (Marlins) also plays for the Tigers.

[iPod]

And Teddy Higuero had a great first four years in the league and then nothing.


What happened to Teddy Higuera anyway? Did he get injured or what? It's disappointing, just 'cause he's one of the very, very few pitchers the Brewers had with big time potential, and he essentially busted.

[ScrewBll45]

What did happen to Teddy.......

anyway, Here's a lengthy article about the Rise and Fall of David Clyde


http://www.dallasobserver.com/issues/2003-05-08/news/feature.html

[Cubsfan97]

Todd Hollandsworth. Wasnt Hee Seop Choi supposed to be big too?

[Knick9]

How about Albert Belle?

[redmask]

I think Belle had some great seasons ( and people forgot the whole corked bat and jason grimsley trying to steal it out of the Umpire's office; funny ****).
I feel he was the most feared hitter in that lineup ( yet down the road people will understand the great influence lofton and ramirez had in those lineups on the speed/power dynamic) and he might slide into the hall of fame since he's not considered in the controversial "juice" brigade of Mcgwire, Bonds, Sosa, etc.) Maybe in terms of the Hall he underachieved, but the guy in 12 years only had one season (not including the first two, he only played around 80 gms total) that he had under 100 RBI's; that year he only played in 120 games and garnered 95 of em. He reminds me too much of that hitter who is always the top ten in his league, but he's never the most dominant and probably will try to garner hall status by accumulating a lot of stats.

[Astro]

Seattle Mariners pitcher Ryan Anderson... was the Mariner's top prospect for 3 years in a row back around 2000, listed as the #1 prospect in baseball a few years ago and has yet to throw a major league inning

[sschirmer]

Seattle Mariners pitcher Ryan Anderson... was the Mariner's top prospect for 3 years in a row back around 2000, listed as the #1 prospect in baseball a few years ago and has yet to throw a major league inning

Dude, you don't even know. I went to the Team One showcase the year Anderson was going into his SR year of HS (had to be around 1996). The Team One was for the top 100 Jrs, heading into their SR years. Anyway, a buddy of mine was a scout for the Tigers at the time, and Anderson was HUGE! He was already 6'9", and blowing heat. I'm not kidding you, his mother had to be 6'4". His family was crazy big. When Seattle drafted him, he was dubbed "Little Unit", as he the M's had visions of pairing him and Randy Johnson in the same rotation at the time. At any rate, he believed his own hype, had a terrible attitude, and has never, to my knowledge, made the show. He was the best pitcher I ever saw at a Team One Showcase. BTW, Eric Chavez was the best hitter I ever saw there. They had the showcase at New Crosley Field here in Cinci. It's an exact replica of Crosley Field, and even had the final scoreboard settings from the final game there. At any rate, I saw Chavez go over the big scoreboard in left field... TWICE. He was only a HS JR! Kid was unreal.

[ScrewBll45]

Mike Ivie,

[E.Banks#14]

How about Benny Kauff? He was suppossed to be the "Ty Cobb" of the Federal League, but when he entered the majors not much materialzed for him. I think he also had some other troubles out side of baseball that got hiim kicked out, but my memory isn't clear on the details now.
Funny, just before reading this post, I read Bill James's commentary on him (he's ranked 94 on James's all-time center fielders list).

John McGraw said,Benny Kauff is an excellent type of the man who comes into baseball without mental training and who could never grasp the idea of trying to find his faults instead of trying to hide them.

In 1914, after signing with the New York Giants, National League President John Tener said he didn't approve the signing and that Kauff wouldn't be allowed to play. He didn't want to raid the Federal League Teams. So he played the next season in the Federal League again. The league then broke up and McGraw again signed Kauff. In 1918, he spent half the season fighting WWI, and in 1920, Kenesaw Landis kicked him out of baseball after he was allegedly involved in a fraud and automobile theft ring led by his brother. He was acquitted of the charges but Landis never let him back in.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

I guess he had a decent career, but nothing compared to what he could have had, same with Gooden. Both were easy Hall of Famers if they werent all doped up.
Gooden's main problem was not drugs but blatant overuse at an early age. He threw a tremendous amount of innings for a young pitcher.

Age 19-218.0 IP
Age 20-276.7 IP
Age 21-250.0 IP
Age 22-179.7 IP
Age 23-248.3 IP
age 24-118.3 IP
Age 25-232.7 IP

The Mets destroyed his arm. :(

[Honus Wagner Rules]

How about fomer Cal League pitcher Steve Dalkowski. Legend was he could throw 120 mph but he drank like a horse and had numerous women involved in his life. A very interesting story. He was voted one of the greatest 100 baseball players ever without playing in a major league game

Dalkowski was never destined to be a major league pitcher. He had a recorded IQ of about 60. In Bill James' Manager's book he talks about Dalkowski in the Earl Weaver section. Weaver gave him an IQ test and he immediately knew the problem. All the constant "coaching" by managers ans coaches just confused Dalkowski. So Weaver simplified his approach and told Dalkowski to just throw his fastball and curveball and nothing else. And he told him to THROW STRIKES over and over and over. His improvement was remarkable. He had some great seasons under Weaver.

I doubt he could actually throw 120 MPH, but for sure over a 100 MPH.

[Jermz]

Tally up some votes from this poster for...

-Ben Grieve
-Shawn Estes
-Bob Hamelin
-Marty Cordova

[Solair Wright]

I'm surprised nobody said Greg Briley yet. He had one standout season in 1989 with the Mariners, then everything else fell apart. He was with the Marlins in 1993, then he was released afterwards, and never played major league baseball again.

[ballparks]

Sparky Anderson said that Torey Lovallo was the best prospect that he'd ever seen.

[leecemark]

--Sparky said that about somebody every spring. It was kind of a tradition with him. The other half of the tradition was he was always wildly exagerrating.

[wamby]

When thinking of the Indians these names jump out

Alex Cole
Jaret Wright
Russell Branyan
Kenny Lofton (after he returned from Atlanta)
Jack McDowell

[johnny]

Well, to be fair he wasn't the only reason the M's fell off but damn he wasn't helping things.
First off, when he came over to play third base (very decent glove) he had like a career .300 plus Batting Average. Okay, I know that he hit in more hitting friendly parks than Safeco Field, but no one was asking him to be a power hitter or even match those great numbers in 2000 in which he hit in 115 RBIs and hit .326. Would it have been too much to expect something in the high .280's or so? Instead, he promptly starts hitting like .250 and then .205 or so. :grouchy His fielding drops and before you know it he is down in Tacoma playing minor league ball on assignment. I am sure injury must have had something to do with it but he fell off the table so quick. Once the hitting :ughh went it seemed his fielding suffered.

Now he is back with the Brewers and making a comeback of sorts. :clapping Hope it works out for him.