Would you like to see the ML champ play the Japanese champ in a best of 7?

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Would you like to see the ML World Series winner play the Japanese World Series winner in a best of 7 "World Series"? Why or why not?

[Joltin' Joe]

Yes! More baseball is always good! :gt

[Captain Cold Nose]

Ever since Bad News Bears in Japan (watching this movie made me realize just how good of an actor Walter Matthau was. He was soooooo much better than Tony Curtis or William Devane, his replacements) this has always been in the back of my mind as to being a good thing. I'd love to see it.

[Blackout]

yes, although im not expecting a close series

[Joltin' Joe]

You know the more I think about it, the more interesting it sounds. This will really be a true battle instead of the exhibition crap that we are used to when the MLers go overseas.

[Chisox]

I'd like to see the MLB champ play the Rest of World Champ so other countries have a chance, too.

[sschirmer]

Yes! More baseball is always good! :gt

I can go with this logic!

[FlashGordon]

I guess I'm the lone dissenter so far. I agree that a game between the WS Champ and the Japanese Champ would be great (maybe for charity) or even a short 3-game series. However, the logistical nightmare of arranging for a 7 game series to be held in 2 separate hemispheres would hardly be worth following. Besides, I think the player's union (not to mention the owners) would grumble about the strain of an even longer post-season.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

I guess I'm the lone dissenter so far. I agree that a game between the WS Champ and the Japanese Champ would be great (maybe for charity) or even a short 3-game series. However, the logistical nightmare of arranging for a 7 game series to be held in 2 separate hemispheres would hardly be worth following. Besides, I think the player's union (not to mention the owners) would grumble about the strain of an even longer post-season.

How is this different then when teams had to take trains? How far is St. Louis from New York or Boston by train? A flight from Chicago to Tokyo would be about 13-14 hours. From NY to St. Louis it would be over 14 hours by car. If you through enough money around the players will come. But MLB would be hesitant because they have much to lose if the ML champ lost, which could happen.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

I'd like to see the MLB champ play the Rest of World Champ so other countries have a chance, too.

Since Japan has the strongest professional baseball league after the majors they should get first crack at it.

[Yankeebiscuitfan]

Great idea. In this way we can see how strong both leagues are.

[Big_Mac]

i would love to see it. the exibition sucks big time. i think it would be interesting, i dont know alot about japanese baseball though. i doubt it will ever happen though, the mlb players have too much to lose and the japanese have nothing. even if japan gets spanked they can say 'oh well, at least we tried, these guys are the best' but if the majors lose, questions will be coming out from everywhere.

i'd love to see it but it aint going to happen

[chisox2k5]

Ask the Players Union how they feel about that... NO.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

i would love to see it. the exibition sucks big time. i think it would be interesting, i dont know alot about japanese baseball though. i doubt it will ever happen though, the mlb players have too much to lose and the japanese have nothing. even if japan gets spanked they can say 'oh well, at least we tried, these guys are the best' but if the majors lose, questions will be coming out from everywhere.

i'd love to see it but it aint going to happen


An the Japanese players would certainly approach the series with the upmost intensity.

[FlashGordon]

How is this different then when teams had to take trains? How far is St. Louis from New York or Boston by train? A flight from Chicago to Tokyo would be about 13-14 hours. From NY to St. Louis it would be over 14 hours by car. If you through enough money around the players will come. But MLB would be hesitant because they have much to lose if the ML champ lost, which could happen.True, the travel time wouldn't necessarily be the killer, though. The jet-lag in the middle of a 7-game series, however...:ughh

[Honus Wagner Rules]

True, the travel time wouldn't necessarily be the killer, though. The jet-lag in the middle of a 7-game series, however...:ughh

True. You could play three games in Japan first, then come home for four games or play seven games at a neutral site, say Hawai'i. Hawai'i is a huge Japanese tourist spot.

[Brannu]

I would like to watch it simply to see professional baseball within the context of another country. I'd like to see how they play the game and if it differs in comparison to how the game is played here.

[Astro]

No, the MLB team would win easily, and when the Japenese team finally won one we'd have to hear about how we lost to another country in our national pasttime and blah blah all the way into the next summer...

[eddiejc1]

Even in the EXTREMELY unlikely possibility of the players unions (I assume the Japanese players have one too) and owners agreeing on this, the time zone difference guarantees this will never happen. Look at the ratings for the Olympics in 2000 when it was held in Sydney. I would love to see more exhibitions, but this is something that will never happen.

One thing I think SHOULD happen is that the accomplishments of Japanese players given some respect. Now nobody is saying that Sadaharo Oh would be able to hit as many home runs in MLB parks as he did in Japan, but it really bothers me that nobody even bothers to mention Oh when it comes to players Barry Bonds must pass in his quest to win the career home run records. Ditto for Sachio Kinugasa who broke Lou Gehrig's record a couple of years before Ripken did. (Ripken eventually broke Kinugasa's record, with little media attention in the United States).

Since players like Ichiro of the Mariners are proving that Japanese players can not only play in the major leagues, but also break records older than Ruth's or Gehrig's, I think Cooperstown should form a committee to consider inducting Japanese players who have ONLY played in the Japanese, and follow the example of the Basketball Hall of Fame which inducts players and coaches from other countries---not just those in the NCAA or NBA. For example, Aleksandr Gomelsky who coached the USSR to the gold medal in 1988 is in Springfield.

Eddie Cunningham

[eddiejc1]

True. You could play three games in Japan first, then come home for four games or play seven games at a neutral site, say Hawai'i. Hawai'i is a huge Japanese tourist spot.

Actually, somebody once suggested that Hawaii be the neutral host of the World Series, just as the Super Bowl is played at a neutral site. You could play the games at the same time as now for the networks (or more specifically, to avoid the college and pro football day games on the weekends) and the game itself will still be in the afternoon Honolulu time. The original reason for moving the Super Bowl to a neutral site was because they felt it would be too cold to play in Green Bay in the middle of January. (Of course, with the playoff pushed back as late as they are, the NFC Championship game---should the Packers ever host it again---would be played much later than the original Super Bowl in 1967.) With the Chicago games being played in the 40's and November just around the corner, might it be time to consider moving the Series if television ratings make day games impossible to consider?

Eddie Cunningham

[538280]

This series would literally mean absolutely nothing....I'm completely confident that the Japanese team would get their clocks cleaned. I like the idea of the MLB champs playing an all star team of non-MLB players. That would be more fair, the internationals might have at least some chance.

Of course, we would need a set sight. Traveling between two different hemispheres wouldn't work. We could have a signt in Puerto Rico or Mexico or someplace like that. It could be fun, if it was run properly and the players actually were trying.

One thing I'll never understand is that the Japanese players get attention as being good, but the Cubans never get any attention. I'm sure there are plenty of quality major leaguers stuck in Cuba.

[runningshoes]

Of course, we would need a set sight. Traveling between two different hemispheres wouldn't work.

Why not Taiwan?

Oh yeah..we want the Japanese team to have to travel here.

[runningshoes]

One thing I'll never understand is that the Japanese players get attention as being good, but the Cubans never get any attention.

Talk to your foreign policy makers about that one.

[hudsonharden]

play the games in a completely neutral spot, like South Africa

[digglahhh]

What if instead of the league champs it was the D-Rays, unless of course the D-Rays are the champs, in which case they would have already defected to Japan.

[runningshoes]

This series would literally mean absolutely nothing....I'm completely confident that the Japanese team would get their clocks cleaned.

"Watching our guys all season and the World Series on TV, I can tell you the level of play is equal," Valentine said after becoming the first foreigner to manage a Japan Series champion. "Such a competition would be great, and it's time to do battle."

I wonder what all you "experts" know that Bobby Valentine doesn't?

I'm not singling you out 538280. You're not the only one with this attitude.

[DownUnderDodger]

Besides, I think the player's union (not to mention the owners) would grumble about the strain of an even longer post-season.
But is this not their job/profession. The money these guys are being paid takes it well beyond just a game!! And I am sure there would be a fillup in the wallets so the players union may accept it?? Or maybe they are scared they will be humiliated??

Play a series in Hawaii - what a great idea. Hawaii is almost owned by the Japanese and there would be a huge crowds, mainly Japanese. Plus it would make for a wonderful baseball vacation for interested Americans.

No, the MLB team would win easily, and when the Japenese team finally won one we'd have to hear about how we lost to another country in our national pasttime and blah blah all the way into the next summer...
If the Japanese would be such easybeats why do MLB teams import so many Japanese players. There must be some talent over there. And why do MLB teams have to import so many players from many other countries, given it is the American "national pastime"? If it is so American why not restrict to just American players?

I guess we will have a better idea when the World Championships are played - given that MLB teams will be prepared to let their foreign players represent their respective nations.

[runningshoes]

Or maybe they are scared they will be humiliated??

That's where I'd have to put my money. It's not so easy to sit around eating duck and suddenly be handed crow to shove in your pie hole.

[runningshoes]

[messed this one up

[runningshoes]

If the Japanese would be such easybeats why do MLB teams import so many Japanese players. There must be some talent over there.

I think what a lot of people fail to realize is that the are a great many Japanese players, who, for different reasons, don't want to leave Japan to play baseball. They simply believe they can't cut it in MLB. I watch the games all the time here in Manila and let me tell you, it just ain't true.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

No, the MLB team would win easily, and when the Japenese team finally won one we'd have to hear about how we lost to another country in our national pasttime and blah blah all the way into the next summer...

I don't know about easily...And if a ML team loses would that be the end of th world? When the US National Basketball team finally lost was it that big of a deal? After the Jets beat the Colts in Super Bowl III in 1969 people got over it. When the USSR National hockey team beat the NHL all-stars in 1972 people got over it, too.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Even in the EXTREMELY unlikely possibility of the players unions (I assume the Japanese players have one too) and owners agreeing on this, the time zone difference guarantees this will never happen. Look at the ratings for the Olympics in 2000 when it was held in Sydney. I would love to see more exhibitions, but this is something that will never happen.

One thing I think SHOULD happen is that the accomplishments of Japanese players given some respect. Now nobody is saying that Sadaharo Oh would be able to hit as many home runs in MLB parks as he did in Japan, but it really bothers me that nobody even bothers to mention Oh when it comes to players Barry Bonds must pass in his quest to win the career home run records. Ditto for Sachio Kinugasa who broke Lou Gehrig's record a couple of years before Ripken did. (Ripken eventually broke Kinugasa's record, with little media attention in the United States).

Since players like Ichiro of the Mariners are proving that Japanese players can not only play in the major leagues, but also break records older than Ruth's or Gehrig's, I think Cooperstown should form a committee to consider inducting Japanese players who have ONLY played in the Japanese, and follow the example of the Basketball Hall of Fame which inducts players and coaches from other countries---not just those in the NCAA or NBA. For example, Aleksandr Gomelsky who coached the USSR to the gold medal in 1988 is in Springfield.

Eddie Cunningham

I didn't ask if it should or can happen. I asked if people would like to see it happen reagardless of logistical issues. A World Series in not he Olympics. These are professional baseball teams not ameteurs. There is club world chapionship in soccer it it does quite well. Granted baseball is not as popular as soccer but there nay many many nations that have a rabid interest in baseball.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

This series would literally mean absolutely nothing....I'm completely confident that the Japanese team would get their clocks cleaned. I like the idea of the MLB champs playing an all star team of non-MLB players. That would be more fair, the internationals might have at least some chance.

Of course, we would need a set sight. Traveling between two different hemispheres wouldn't work. We could have a signt in Puerto Rico or Mexico or someplace like that. It could be fun, if it was run properly and the players actually were trying.

One thing I'll never understand is that the Japanese players get attention as being good, but the Cubans never get any attention. I'm sure there are plenty of quality major leaguers stuck in Cuba.

538280,

Since you have even admitted that you know next to nothing about Japanese baseball your statement is meaningless. It may mean absolutely nothing to you but to many baseball fans it would mean a great deal. Japan plays a high level of ball and Bobby Valentine who just managed the Chiba Lotte Marines to the Japan Series title says the Japanese champ can compete with the World Series champ. Since he's managed in the World Series here and in Japan I think his view carries much more weight than those who never have watched Japanese baseball don't you think?

Japan simply plays a higher level of baseball than Cuba. Japan has 10 times the population of Cuba and has a structured professional baseball system with a minor league system and a very strong amatuer baseball system as well. Also, the Japanese major leagues have foreigners as well and Cuban baseball does not. Of course there are major league quality players in Cuba but just like the Negro League the overall quality of Cuban baseball is not that high. For some reason, like the old Negro Leagues, Cuban baseball has been mythologized into being this great baseball beast.

[brewcrew82]

Play a series in Hawaii - what a great idea. Hawaii is almost owned by the Japanese and there would be a huge crowds, mainly Japanese. Plus it would make for a wonderful baseball vacation for interested Americans.


Just like the Pro Bowl, only difference this would be watchable...:p

If you wanted to have it best of seven in the countries involved, have all seven games in Japan one year and the next play in the States.

By the way, I actually really like the idea.

[Chisox]

Since Japan has the strongest professional baseball league after the majors they should get first crack at it.

I meant have all other (than MLB) leagues' champions play each other for a title, then that winner play the World Series champ. That way Latin countries have a chance, as well as the Japaneese leagues.

[runningshoes]

I meant have all other (than MLB) leagues' champions play each other for a title, then that winner play the World Series champ. That way Latin countries have a chance, as well as the Japaneese leagues.

I don't know if I like that. It shows a certain "arrogance" or assumption that the World Series winner should get a pass from the pool.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

I meant have all other (than MLB) leagues' champions play each other for a title, then that winner play the World Series champ. That way Latin countries have a chance, as well as the Japaneese leagues.

The Latin American countries don't have professional baseball leagues that I am aware of. The best latin players play in the majors or in Japan. Korea has a proffesional league I think.

[runningshoes]

The Latin American countries don't have professional baseball leagues that I am aware of. The best latin players play in the majors or in Japan. Korea has a proffesional league I think.

Maybe they could pool together a team to compete in such a championship?

There's a pro league in Taiwan, but the level of play is inferior. I wonder where we could find a fourth team to even out the slate?

I don't think there's enough Canadian talent to throw together a team to compete at that level.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

I don't know if I like that. It shows a certain "arrogance" or assumption that the World Series winner should get a pass from the pool.

They do the same thing with the Little League World Series, an American teams gets a guaranteed spot in the finals.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Maybe they could pool together a team to compete in such a championship?

There's a pro league in Taiwan, but the level of play is inferior. I wonder where we could find a fourth team to even out the slate?

I don't think there's enough Canadian talent to throw together a team to compete at that level.

The concept I have in mind is basically a "Club" championship, not national teams. In soccer they have a world "Club" championship where the best teams from the top soccer leagues play each other, kike Manchester United vs Real Madrid. These teams have players from around the world. Since the Japanese professional league is the only leagues remotely close in caliber to the major leagues, that's why a MLB Vs NPL sereis would be best.

[trosmok]

Horrible idea, but a few exhibitions might be fun. More baseball is always preferable to less, but a post-post season Japan v. U.S. "championship" would be both meaningless and ludicrous. BTW, the Caribbean Winter Baseball consisting of teams in the Venezuelan, Mexican Pacific, Puerto Rican, and Dominican Republic leagues are top notch competitions that draw upwards of 50% of the players on their rosters from MLB. It has been a while, but I'm fairly certain there are at least two dozen teams that play from early November until late Januarly, followed by a tournament that was won by Mexico last year. Also, the Cuban National team rivals any team anywhere in terms of talent; it is no myth that they are the best team in the Caribbean, and they deserve more respect than they are given. I don't know very much about Japanese baseball, except the teams are named for very big corporations instead of the towns they play in, which strikes me as quite odd. The other thing I remember is Bob Horner talking about his experience playing in the land of the rising sun, and asking why so many of his teammates put all their money into savings accounts that draw no more than 3-4% interest when they could easily invest in American bonds that would yield twice that. Their immediate reply was: "Oh no, we could lose everything. What if we went to war again?" Bob said he nearly fell out of the jet he was so astounded by the matter of fact manner it was said to him.

[sschirmer]

Horrible idea, .


Don't hold back, tell us how you really feel.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Horrible idea, but a few exhibitions might be fun. More baseball is always preferable to less, but a post-post season Japan v. U.S. "championship" would be both meaningless and ludicrous. BTW, the Caribbean Winter Baseball consisting of teams in the Venezuelan, Mexican Pacific, Puerto Rican, and Dominican Republic leagues are top notch competitions that draw upwards of 50% of the players on their rosters from MLB. It has been a while, but I'm fairly certain there are at least two dozen teams that play from early November until late Januarly, followed by a tournament that was won by Mexico last year. Also, the Cuban National team rivals any team anywhere in terms of talent; it is no myth that they are the best team in the Caribbean, and they deserve more respect than they are given. I don't know very much about Japanese baseball, except the teams are named for very big corporations instead of the towns they play in, which strikes me as quite odd. The other thing I remember is Bob Horner talking about his experience playing in the land of the rising sun, and asking why so many of his teammates put all their money into savings accounts that draw no more than 3-4% interest when they could easily invest in American bonds that would yield twice that. Their immediate reply was: "Oh no, we could lose everything. What if we went to war again?" Bob said he nearly fell out of the jet he was so astounded by the matter of fact manner it was said to him.

1. Are you related to 538280? ;) What's the point of playing an exhibition only? The World Baseball Classic is supposed to NOT be an exhibition but a true competition to determine what country is the best in baseball.

2. Yes, it is a myth. The "reason" Cuba has the best "team" is because the players from the other Caribbean countries all play in the majors. The Dominican Republic would easily defeat the Cuban team.

In Japan the major corporations all view their baseball team as a "marketing tool" to sell their products thus they name the teams after the corporation. Bob Horner played one season. He didn't like the crazy environment over there. Baseball players in Japan are even more famous than here. They are treated like rock-stars.

As far as I know the winter leagues are separate entities with the major leugue talent spead throughout the leagues.

[Big_Mac]

i wouldn't say that the japense team would get their clocks cleaned if they did play. there is some good talent over there and a few games would be close. and like honus wagner rules (think it was you) said the japenese team would be geared up to play them. i can see a cocky team like the yankees or red sox rolling in and the japanese team jumping on to a quick start in the first game or so.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

i wouldn't say that the japense team would get their clocks cleaned if they did play. there is some good talent over there and a few games would be close. and like honus wagner rules (think it was you) said the japenese team would be geared up to play them. i can see a cocky team like the yankees or red sox rolling in and the japanese team jumping on to a quick start in the first game or so.

In recent years the Japanese have held their own in the bi-annual MLB All-Stars vs Japanese All-stars.

[trosmok]

;) The Dominican Republic would easily defeat the Cuban team.


On what do you base this unfounded assertion? The Cubans won the Olympic Gold Medal in baseball in 1992, 1996, and 2004. That is one of the reasons the rag-tag college and cast-off U.S. team that won in 2000 was such a HUGE UPSET! Haven't seen a Dominican team in the top ten in qualifying for the Olympics, yet.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

I checked out the history of the MLB All-Star Tour of Japan:

1986 MLB 6 NPB 1
1988 MLB 3 NPB 2 (2 ties)
1990 NPB 4 MLB 3 (1 tie)
1992 MLB 6 NPB 1 (1 tie)
1996 MLB 4 NPB 2 (2 ties)
1998 MLB 5 NPB 2
2000 MLB 5 NPB 2
2002 MLB 4 NPB 3
2004 MLB 5 NPB 3

The Seires has been rather close for the most part.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

On what do you base this unfounded assertion? The Cubans won the Olympic Gold Medal in baseball in 1992, 1996, and 2004. That is one of the reasons the rag-tag college and cast-off U.S. team that won in 2000 was such a HUGE UPSET! Haven't seen a Dominican team in the top ten in qualifying for the Olympics, yet.

Unfounded? It's called facts. Did the Cubans face any all-star major leaguers in those Olympics? No. The Dominican major leaguers are not allowed to play in the Olympics. So Cuba winning gold means nothing when it comes to playing major leaguers.

Dominicans likely to play in the World Baseball Classic

C-Miguel Olivo (yeah, yeah, it's the best I could do)
1B-Albert Pujols
2B-Alfonso Soriano
SS-Miguel Tejeda
3B-Aramis Ramirez
RF-Vladimir Guererro
CF-Willy Taveras
LF-Manny Ramirez

SP-Pedro Martinez
SP-Bartolo Colon
SP-Odalis Perez
SP-Daniel Cabrera
SP-Ervin Santana
RP-Armando Benitez
RP-Guillermo Mota
RP-Francisco Cordero
RP-Damaso Marte

Are you saying that the Cuban National team has better players these guys? Please! The Domincan team will have at least 10 All-Star caliber players.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

On what do you base this unfounded assertion? The Cubans won the Olympic Gold Medal in baseball in 1992, 1996, and 2004. That is one of the reasons the rag-tag college and cast-off U.S. team that won in 2000 was such a HUGE UPSET! Haven't seen a Dominican team in the top ten in qualifying for the Olympics, yet.

Yes, it's an upset that a team playing together for a few months beat a team that has been playing together for years. If The Cuban National team can be beat by American college players and minor-leaguers what going to happen when they play teams full of major league All-Star caliber players? They'll lose, that's what will happen.

[Jake83]

I think we should sent the Royals over their to play the Japnesse Champion it would be a better series

[Honus Wagner Rules]

I think we should sent the Royals over their to play the Japnesse Champion it would be a better series
The Royals would be crushed in four games by the Chiba Lotte Marines.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Interesting commentary on Valentine's comments:

Thursday, October 27, 2005
A real World Series would be perfect

By Bob Klapisch
Special to ESPN.com

If Bud Selig was able to cut through FOX's over-amped broadcasts -- from the video game "whoosh" that accompanied every graphic, to Scooter the talking baseball -- he would've realized Major League Baseball was officially called out on Wednesday. The commissioner will pretend he wasn't listening, but from across the Pacific, Bobby Valentine was issuing the kind of challenge that any marketing-minded league should love.
Valentine's Chiba Lotte Marines are now ready to conquer the world, or at least the White Sox. So said the former Mets manager, who's in his second year in Japan and just led his team to a four-game sweep of the Japan Series. No foreigner has ever managed into the final round, and the experience has clearly had an effect on Valentine.


In his second year as manager of the Chiba Lotte Marines, Bobby Valentine led the team to the title in the Japan Series.
Not only is he proposing a true global championship series, he actually thinks the Marines can win. Crazy? It's anyone's guess, but Valentine told the Associated Press that after watching the White Sox and Astros on TV, he's sure his Japanese players would shock their major league counterparts.

"I can tell you the level of play is equal," Valentine said. "[The Marines] are as good as any team I've ever managed. I'd put them up against the winner of the World Series and I know we'd win at least a couple of games."

Valentine had his enemies, plenty of them, and he knows he's tweaking the very people who wish he'd stay in Japan forever, never to be heard from again. But if MLB is looking for more competition, better TV ratings -- and, sure, more money -- they should be listening. Bring Valentine and his tough little team to the U.S., and let him and Ozzie Guillen go at it for a week.

Two managers, all ego, no edit button, baseball hard cores who live beyond the game's politically correct boundaries. A Valentine vs. Guillen war would be the perfect antidote to baseball's inability to hold its October audience.

Despite the month-long adrenaline rush America experienced during the wild-card races, everyone moved on. Going into Game 4 Wednesday night, the World Series had turned into FOX's nightmare: ratings were down 30 percent from a year ago, and this Series was on its way to becoming the least popular TV event in the Fall Classic's history.

FOX tried everything to juice up the broadcasts, but the desperation just made the games louder and dumber. Maybe Scooter and the dirt cam created FOX flight. Then again, it might not be the network's fault. It could be that too many Yankees-Red Sox broadcasts sent the average fan fleeing into the arms of the NFL. Maybe out-of-towners are looking for someone new to root for -- or against.

Valentine is the perfect foil, and he knows it. By boasting that his mostly anonymous players are good enough to beat the planet's elite, he's harpooning the major league's very foundation. The Marines might be Japan's best team, but The Show draws from the rest of the globe's finest talent, from North and South America, the Caribbean, even Australia.

Valentine knows this. Of course he does. But there he is, ready to puncture the aura of the big league's superiority. How dare he, the game's guardians must be thinking. Is he really serious?

Better question: What's wrong with finding out?

If Selig really wanted the major leagues to regain their strut, he'd take Valentine's call and make this happen, somehow, some way. Not now, maybe, but maybe next year. Designate the last two weeks of October to a real world series, and see who's boss.

“ [The Marines] are as good as any team I've ever managed. I'd put them up against the winner of the World Series and I know we'd win at least a couple of games. ”
— Bobby Valentine

Of course, there are a million obstacles in the way. To make room on the calendar, MLB would have to end the playoffs earlier. Same goes for the regular season. That would meaning shortening the schedule to 154 games -- a suggestion that's already been soundly rejected by the owners.

The other problem is getting the players to take this series seriously. Nationalism alone doesn't seem to resonate among most American-born players, as many of them have suggested next year's baseball World Classic will be treated as nothing more than a glorified March exhibition.

No matter, says Selig. The baseball community will finally have the tournament he's worked so hard to choreograph. That's why, when asked about Valentine's challenge, the Office of the Commissioner swatted it aside like a corporate gnat.

"We've got the World Classic," an MLB spokesman said. "This [other event] hasn't been talked about."

Maybe it's time to reconsider, considering the kind of roll the White Sox are on. After nearly collapsing in September, they demolished everyone in their path, including the Indians, Red Sox, Angels and Astros. The small riot that erupted on the pitcher's mound after the final out of Game 4 told you the White Sox were convinced that the world was theirs.

Everyone was high-fiving and delivering thunderous back slaps and the clubhouse was soon under celebratory siege. Through the partying, though, was a voice thousands of miles away, telling the Sox their championship run wasn't yet complete.

"It's time to do battle," Valentine was saying. Somehow, this doesn't even sound corny.

[BristolBoy]

Bobby V 1-0 Bug Selig.

MLB would be dropping the ball if they didn't seriously consider this next year at least if not this year - you can't tell me for a single second that there won't be all kinds of interest worldwide from fans and (for Bug's benefit) investors wanting to get in on this. Tournaments between other countries' clubs take place in loads of different sports, probably most eminently in the form of the Champions League in football (sorry, soccer) in Europe. I really fail to see how another week on the end of the season is going to make so much difference, and you can't tell me that Ozzie and the Sox wouldn't be willing to 'do battle', as it was so aptly put.

In the afore mentioned Champions League, games between English and German clubs always have an extra bite, and extra kick to them - and you can't tell me for a second that there won't be a kick to a US-Japan encounter.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Bobby V 1-0 Bug Selig.

MLB would be dropping the ball if they didn't seriously consider this next year at least if not this year - you can't tell me for a single second that there won't be all kinds of interest worldwide from fans and (for Bug's benefit) investors wanting to get in on this. Tournaments between other countries' clubs take place in loads of different sports, probably most eminently in the form of the Champions League in football (sorry, soccer) in Europe. I really fail to see how another week on the end of the season is going to make so much difference, and you can't tell me that Ozzie and the Sox wouldn't be willing to 'do battle', as it was so aptly put.

In the afore mentioned Champions League, games between English and German clubs always have an extra bite, and extra kick to them - and you can't tell me for a second that there won't be a kick to a US-Japan encounter.
I agree!!!!! :D

[runningshoes]

Too bad German's aren't the best players in the world, they'd be all over this idea.

[trosmok]

Unfounded?
Are you saying that the Cuban National team has better players these guys? Please! The Domincan team will have at least 10 All-Star caliber players.

C Ariel Pestno
RF Osmani Urritia
LF Frederich Cepeda
CF Carlos Taberas
SS Eduardo Paret
1B Antonio Scull
2B Yuliesky Gourriel
3B Michel Enriquez

SP Adiel Palma
SP Norge Luis Vera
SP Pedro Luis Lazo

Might not be household names outside of Cuba, but I'd put this team up against any assemblage of egos you could muster. They play as a team rather than individual all-stars, and teams not reputations win ballgames. The Cuban National team has lost dozens of top calibur players through defection, or failed flight attempts that landed Kendry Morales, Maels Rodriguez, and Yobel Dumas in hot water with Fidel. There were at least four defectors from the nat'l team on Japanese League rosters in '05: Omar Linares, Orestes Kindelan, Antonio Pacheco, and German Mesa. It will not surprise me in the least when dozens of the above players finally make it to the States, however roundabout their path, and show the Americans what the Cubans' Baseball is all about. Jose Contreras was only the first of many more to come.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

double post

[Honus Wagner Rules]

C Ariel Pestno
RF Osmani Urritia
LF Frederich Cepeda
CF Carlos Taberas
SS Eduardo Paret
1B Antonio Scull
2B Yuliesky Gourriel
3B Michel Enriquez

SP Adiel Palma
SP Norge Luis Vera
SP Pedro Luis Lazo

Might not be household names outside of Cuba, but I'd put this team up against any assemblage of egos you could muster. They play as a team rather than individual all-stars, and teams not reputations win ballgames. The Cuban National team has lost dozens of top calibur players through defection, or failed flight attempts that landed Kendry Morales, Maels Rodriguez, and Yobel Dumas in hot water with Fidel. There were at least four defectors from the nat'l team on Japanese League rosters in '05: Omar Linares, Orestes Kindelan, Antonio Pacheco, and German Mesa. It will not surprise me in the least when dozens of the above players finally make it to the States, however roundabout their path, and show the Americans what the Cubans' Baseball is all about. Jose Contreras was only the first of many more to come.
Talent wins games. The Cuban players are by definiton amateur players. Many have major league quality talent but since they have not played against the best major leaguers then how good can they be? Also the Cuban players that have defected have as a group been medicore at best in the majors. Check out the career stats for Livan Hernandez, El Duque, and Contrares. For all the hype that was attached to them when they came they've been been pretty much average as as major leaguers.

Linares did NOT defect. He received permission from Castro to play in Japan.
Linares becomes Dragon for $4,000 a month
By Wayne Gracyk and Kevin Baxter
July 8, 2002

TOKYO—Veteran infielder Omar Linares will apparently become the first member of the Cuban national team to play professional baseball in another country with the approval of the Havana government. The 34-year-old third baseman signed a contract with the Chunichi Dragons of Japan’s Central League and was expected to begin playing for the Nagoya-based team July 19.

The Dragons announced a deal with Cuban officials to acquire Linares, who is signed through 2002 for a monthly salary of 500,000 yen (about $4,000). He received no signing bonus under the agreement made public just four days prior to Japan’s June 30 deadline to acquire new foreign players for this season.

Two of the Dragons’ Central League rivals in Tokyo, the Yomiuri Giants and Yakult Swallows, had been looking into the possibility of obtaining Cuban players, including Linares. But they never obtained permission from Havana to negotiate with the players. Linares played third base on a Cuban team that won two Olympic gold medals and a silver, and he will most likely play that position for the Dragons.

"This is great," said Masahiro Yokoyama, the chief negotiator with Cuba for the Japanese team. "We've been negotiating with Cuba for eight years to obtain Cuban baseball players, but especially Linares. We have a lot of hope because he's one of the best in the world."


Please give evidence that the players you listed are better than the Dominancan major league all-stars and not just your opinion. How can they possibly be better? They have not played against major league quality teams so by definition they can't be better. A player's skills improves when they palye against the highest caliber of players. Since the Cuban players have not done that there is no way that they can be as good as the Dominican major leaguers. Is there any Cuban outfiled that is better than Manny Ramirez and Vladimir Guererro? Is there any Cuban first basemen as good as Albert Pujols? I doubt it.

[Indylavi]

I can tell you that a lot of people won't be interested in a Japan/US game. Most people didn't even watch the World Series. You think people complained about staying up to 1am to watch a game. The time difference is too great to be on TV at a decent hour for either country. Also, isn't it arrogant to assume that the US and Japan are the only real competition. A US and Japan game still isn't a "True World Series" either. The same arguments that claim Japan is better than other countries are the same arguments that people claim makes the US better.

We will have the World Baseball Classic and even that most of the people I've talked to don't that seriously. If they held this Japan/US game it would have to compete with the NFL and NBA for US household TV's. Incase you didn't hear both of those sports are more popular than Baseball right now. A Japan/US game be terribly popular in Japan but I seriously doubt most Americans would even care. Again most Americans choose to watch sitcom reruns than to watch the World Series.

Football (soccer) games in Europe also carry a bit of national pride with them. So that's why they are popular. That doesn't carry well in the US anymore. Just look at the pride of America in our 2004 Olympic basketball team. We had trouble filling the roster for that team. This doesn't even touch on what owners have to say. As with the World Baseball Classic a lot of owners don't want their players playing in games that don't matter. Yes, a Japan/US game wouldn't matter. Owners don't pay players to play Japanese baseball teams. They pay them to play in the regular season. It might be a pretty good idea but it's not going to happen.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

I can tell you that a lot of people won't be interested in a Japan/US game. Most people didn't even watch the World Series. You think people complained about staying up to 1am to watch a game. The time difference is too great to be on TV at a decent hour for either country. Also, isn't it arrogant to assume that the US and Japan are the only real competition. A US and Japan game still isn't a "True World Series" either. The same arguments that claim Japan is better than other countries are the same arguments that people claim makes the US better.

We will have the World Baseball Classic and even that most of the people I've talked to don't that seriously. If they held this Japan/US game it would have to compete with the NFL and NBA for US household TV's. Incase you didn't hear both of those sports are more popular than Baseball right now. A Japan/US game be terribly popular in Japan but I seriously doubt most Americans would even care. Again most Americans choose to watch sitcom reruns than to watch the World Series.

Football (soccer) games in Europe also carry a bit of national pride with them. So that's why they are popular. That doesn't carry well in the US anymore. Just look at the pride of America in our 2004 Olympic basketball team. We had trouble filling the roster for that team. This doesn't even touch on what owners have to say. As with the World Baseball Classic a lot of owners don't want their players playing in games that don't matter. Yes, a Japan/US game wouldn't matter. Owners don't pay players to play Japanese baseball teams. They pay them to play in the regular season. It might be a pretty good idea but it's not going to happen.

Based on the poll so far (21-13 in favor of such a series) a lot people disagree with you. And who cares about ratings? That's not the question I asked. I've asked would YOU want to see such a series? I could care less about whether America as a whole would like to see such a series. I can tell you that such a series would have great interest in Japan. Almost every knowledgeable baseball expert and fan recognize that the Japan professional leagues are the strongest leagues after the major leagues. And this series would NOT be a USA vs Japan series. It would pit the World Series winner from both countries. Many non-Americans play in the major leagues and several play in Japan as well. It would be the Chicago White Sox vs the Chiba Lotte Marines in 2005 for instance.

[Indylavi]

Well the point of the article that was posted above where the guy was talking about general baseball interest. This site here only shows a extremely small slice of baseball fans. Most of us are here because we are... well maybe not obsessed about baseball but pretty close. The reason ratings are important for something like this is that if it's a flop, it will never happen again. The WS will still be played but for such an international game interest is important. I said it would be HUGE in Japan but I don't think it will be in the US. I lived in Japan for a couple years and saw my share of baseball there. They are good teams and I'm sure some could compete with MLB teams. However, I personally wouldn't watch the game. I wouldn't stay up to watch it to. Would it be interesting. Maybe. But I don't think it will happen

[DownUnderDodger]

The time difference is too great to be on TV at a decent hour for either country.
So TV really does rule!!??

I can tell you that a lot of people won't be interested in a Japan/US game. Most people didn't even watch the World Series. You think people complained about staying up to 1am to watch a game............Again most Americans choose to watch sitcom reruns than to watch the World Series.
I thought that Baseball was the American pastime, but apparently that is far from the truth.

Football (soccer) games in Europe also carry a bit of national pride with them. So that's why they are popular. That doesn't carry well in the US anymore. Just look at the pride of America in our 2004 Olympic basketball team. We had trouble filling the roster for that team.
Whenever I have visited the USA I have marvelled at the patriotic stance of Americans who seem to love nothing more than to show the country's flag. But when it comes to international affairs it seem that USA is very insular. National pride does not seem to extend beyond the confines of the USA. Very sad.

This doesn't even touch on what owners have to say. As with the World Baseball Classic a lot of owners don't want their players playing in games that don't matter. Yes, a Japan/US game wouldn't matter. Owners don't pay players to play Japanese baseball teams. They pay them to play in the regular season. It might be a pretty good idea but it's not going to happen.
Again the mighty dollar ahead of any national pride - sad!

[Indylavi]

Well your right DownUnderDodger. But it's the truth. Bud will want to broadcast this game. That way the MLB could get an extra 20 or 30 Million. That's the reason the World Series starts at night. It's because of TV. Baseball is the historic pastime of the US. But it is far from being the most popular sport now. Which indeed is very sad :( Money rules everything. Sure the MLB will show up to play.... as long as they can make enough money off of it to make it worth the while.

[Jake83]

The Royals would be crushed in four games by the Chiba Lotte Marines.


What are your basing this opinion on. The Japanesse League every year, because of the top japanesse players moving to the US, is falling behind the MLB in terms of talent. I think a Royals, Devil Rays, Pirates or whatever sub 500 team would be the best competiton for a japaneese League team. I believe if you send any of the 8 playoff teams it would be a short 4 or 5 game series

[leecemark]

--IMO the Japanese Leagues are closer to AAA (although better) than they are to MLB. How many games do you think the best AAA team would win playing the Series champs? I think the only reason the exhibition series have been relatively close is they have all been played in Japan and the Japanese have taken them more seriously the the Americans.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

What are your basing this opinion on. The Japanesse League every year, because of the top japanesse players moving to the US, is falling behind the MLB in terms of talent. I think a Royals, Devil Rays, Pirates or whatever sub 500 team would be the best competiton for a japaneese League team. I believe if you send any of the 8 playoff teams it would be a short 4 or 5 game series

I base my opinion on the fact the Chiba Lotte Marines are managed by Bobby Valentine and in his valued opinion His Marines could hold their own against the White Sox. He is very serious in his view. The Royals are the worst tream in the Major Leagues. What are you basing your opinion that the Royals would beat the Marines? How do you how strong the Marines are? Since the Japanese leagues are much stronger than triple-A baseball, it's no stretch to believe that the Marines are far better than the Royals. The Japanese leagues are losing a few stars but not that many. Other than Ichiro and the Matusui boys they haven't lost that many really. And it's not like they can't replace them. There is always new young stars players coming up in Japan. Losing a player of Matusiu's caliber only hurts the team he left, not necessarily the entire league.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

--IMO the Japanese Leagues are closer to AAA (although better) than they are to MLB. How many games do you think the best AAA team would win playing the Series champs? I think the only reason the exhibition series have been relatively close is they have all been played in Japan and the Japanese have taken them more seriously the the Americans.

Ah, that's the same argument used when Negro Leaguers played against and beat the white major leaguers. "Oh, it's only an exhibition. If you negros played the major leaguers for real, they'd crush you." There was a similar line like that in the Satchel Paige movie with Lou Gosset, Jr. Baseball Prospectus has done some research on Japanese baseball and they've conclude that it's far stronger than Triple-A and very close to major league quality.


In Baseball Prospectus 2001, I wrote that the difficulty level of Japan was "about even with the Triple-A leagues." Looking at it more comprehensively--I was basing my assessment on a scattering of players, rather than off a full list of Japanese player data--that was a silly thing to say, as the Japanese leagues have clearly and consistently rated as tougher than the American Triple-A leagues. Every case from the 1990s shows that players do worse as a CPA-weighted-average group in Japan than they do in Triple-A, and by a considerable margin. The Triple-A/majors multiplier is .860; if the transitive property holds, then Japanese EqA is worth about .948 of a major-league EqA, which conveniently enough is almost identical to what we got from major leaguers...

Here some good articles on the statistical evaluation of the quality of play of the Japanese Leagues.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=1330

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=1348

[Jake83]

Any league that Karl Rhodes hits 50 home runs in is below Major League quality

[Joltin' Joe]

Any league that Karl Rhodes hits 50 home runs in is below Major League quality

What about a league that Brady Anderson hits 50 home runs in?

[Sean Casey]

Absolutely not!

The World Series is supposed to be the climactic conclusion of the baseball season, to determine the champion of two equally great leagues

Adding in a post world series championship series would not only cheapen the WS, but it would be a joke to watch a Japanese team (probably about the level of a good AAA team, or maybe the D-Rays or Royals) take on a MLB team.

Think about it; almost all of the great Japanese players are playng in MLB, so this whole idea would just be another excuse for Bud Selig to make more money through violating baseball traditions, in this case turning the World Series into just another playoff round.

[DownUnderDodger]

Absolutely not!

The World Series is supposed to be the climactic conclusion of the baseball season, to determine the champion of two equally great leagues

Adding in a post world series championship series would not only cheapen the WS, but it would be a joke to watch a Japanese team (probably about the level of a good AAA team, or maybe the D-Rays or Royals) take on a MLB team.

Think about it; almost all of the great Japanese players are playng in MLB, so this whole idea would just be another excuse for Bud Selig to make more money through violating baseball traditions, in this case turning the World Series into just another playoff round.

Think about what you have said in the context of world sport. The World Series is the pinnacle of baseball in North America and the winners of the World Series would still be recognised as "the champion of two equally great leagues" within North America.

A match up between the WS champions of North America against, in this case, the champions of Japan would not detract from the honour of being MLB champions, it would merely allow that team to show its might against the champions of another country, hence expanding the game to the world.

The cocoon that is MLB baseball is about to be ripped (but a long way from being torn apart) by the forthcoming World Championship, and a world club challenge could well be another way of expansion of this great game, without in any way detracting from the MLB WS.

[Jake83]

What about a league that Brady Anderson hits 50 home runs in?



Brady Ander son was always a decent major league player unlike Karl Rhodes who could never even stick with the Astos or Cubs as a 4th outfielder

[runningshoes]

his valued opinion

Are there more valued opinions than those of ours at BBF? :laugh

[Joltin' Joe]

Are there more valued opinions than those of ours at BBF? :laugh

:laugh

Bobby V's statement really got me interested. He is the only man ever to manage both series, the WS and the JS so I guess his opinion would carry a little more weight than ours?;) I would love to see what would happen. We may spank them beyond belief, and we may not. As a baseball fan, I would love to see a series.

[runningshoes]

:laugh

Bobby V's statement really got me interested. He is the only man ever to manage both series, the WS and the JS so I guess his opinion would carry a little more weight than ours?;) I would love to see what would happen. We may spank them beyond belief, and we may not. As a baseball fan, I would love to see a series.

Yeah, I gotta wonder what everyone is afraid of. Like I said before, I watch the games here in Manila twice a week, and although I'd slap my money on the MLB team, it would be by no means a sure thing.

[jalbright]

Looking at in the context of my projection systems, it would likely be a competitive series. This view doesn't account for the impact of front line talent, which is the key in a short playoff. However, over the whole season, the Marines might have been a tad better.

The White Sox scored 741 and allowed 645, which should translate to a .569 won lost percentage. They exceeded that mark due to luck or other factors. The Marines stats, when projected to the major leagues, indicate they should have scored 702 runs but allowed 593, which would lead to a .583 winning percentage. The projection of Marine stats used my conversion factors and essentially used component ERA, though I had to estimate batters faced by (IP * 2.836) plus hits and walks. The 2.836 figure came from Japan's 1992 through 2001 stats with (AB-H)/IP.

Jim Albright

[jalbright]

For those of you who want to see how I reached the above conclusion, I'll attach the spreadsheet for my calculations. All Marine stats have already been converted to major league equivalents.

[leecemark]

--Who were the Marine hired guns from the U.S. and what kind of numbers did they put up?

[jalbright]

Go to this page http://www.geocities.com/s_borisov/jb2005/ , and click on the select team box, pick the Marines, then go to the box next to it and pick 2005 statistics, then hit the box labelled go and you'll get all the stats for the 2005 Marines.

Jim Albright

[Honus Wagner Rules]

For those of you who want to see how I reached the above conclusion, I'll attach the spreadsheet for my calculations. All Marine stats have already been converted to major league equivalents.

Thanks Jim! Great info. I don't understand some of the resistance to a MLB vs NPL matchup?

[jalbright]

You're welcome. From the players and owners, it's money and pride. Pride is a key issue for all the objectors, IMO. Also, if you only know a smidgen about Japanese ball and from that conclude they're not nearly as good, you don't want to see them placed on the same pedestal. Maybe the World Cup will open some eyes. Another thing is, some folks just don't want their world getting more complex or to find out they really have a gap in their knowledge if they don't know anything about Japanese ball--and how many of those folks would enjoy taking the effort to learn? Too few, I'm afraid.

Jim Albright

[Honus Wagner Rules]

You're welcome. From the players and owners, it's money and pride. Pride is a key issue for all the objectors, IMO. Also, if you only know a smidgen about Japanese ball and from that conclude they're not nearly as good, you don't want to see them placed on the same pedestal. Maybe the World Cup will open some eyes. Another thing is, some folks just don't want their world getting more complex or to find out they really have a gap in their knowledge if they don't know anything about Japanese ball--and how many of those folks would enjoy taking the effort to learn? Too few, I'm afraid.

Jim Albright
That's too bad. I spent some time in Japan in 2002 teaching english and I got to watch some Yumuiri Giants games. It was fun to watch. It opened my eyes that here is other baseball to read about and learn about. I definitely pay more attention to other baseball besides MLB now. I wish we could watch some regular season Japanese games here in the US.

[trosmok]

It opened my eyes that here is other baseball to read about and learn about. I definitely pay more attention to other baseball besides MLB now. I wish we could watch some regular season Japanese games here in the US.

I echo those sentiments wholeheartedly, and I would also love to see some Caribbean winter league ball telecasts. I get to see the highlights of the post season tournament (Mexico was the '04-'05 winner) but that is about it. Someday I hope to visit Japan and catch a live game, it sure sounds like too much fun. I have been fortunate to visit Puerto Rico a number of times, and the Santurce Crabbers have perhaps the longest and most storied past. Jackie Robinson played a few winters, as did Satchel Paige and Ron "El Pinguina" Cey was hugely popular. Last time I was there, the infield had Robby Alomar teamed with Carlos Baerga, and Aaron Rowand in center, Wally Bachman and so many others it was crazy. Coaches included Ivan DeJesus and Dickie Thon. The style of ball was only slightly different than stateside; a greater premium was placed on speed and defense, but the passion for the game was plainly evident. Most of these guys could have been chilling on a beach, but were competing for the sheer joy of playing baseball, and keeping in shape yearround.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

I saw this today:
...Valentine, who was also honored this season with the Shoriki Award for his contributions to Japanese baseball, on Tuesday took the opportunity to plug his version of a true "World Series" featuring the major-league champion against the Japan Series winner.

Valentine said he'd like to see the series played in Hawaii and that all the profits should go to charities that aid children affected by disasters throughout the world.

source: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2217182

[runningshoes]

I echo those sentiments wholeheartedly.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. It's great baseball. For whatever reason it's not broadcast in North America. I've got the best of both baseball worlds here.

7:30 am I watch MLB and at 3pm I watch the Japanese games.

And for a laugh I can tune into the Chinese league as well. That stuff is on every day. ;)

[plask_stirlac]

"Equalizer?"

Well, it would be okay to see. Competition, though... as long as they have the Japanese equivalents of Pettite, Clemens, and Oswalt, they might get (zero) wins.

[DownUnderDodger]

I understand that quite a few Aussies play in the Japanese League, but we hear or see nothing of it here in Oz. Heck we don't even get any news about Aussie Baseball, what little of it there is in this country. It is obvious that Baseball in Japan is quite strong, other wise there would be fewer Japanese players being bought to play in the MLB.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

I saw this today on ESPN...


Let's crown a real 'world champion'

By Enrique Rojas

ESPNdeportes.com

No matter how low the TV ratings are each year, the World Series will always be the biggest event for Major League Baseball and one of the most watched spectacles in professional sports around the world.
But it may be time for baseball to take the next step: the crowning of a "champion of champions" with a series between the winners of Major League Baseball and the Nippon Professional Baseball League in Japan.


How would Albert Pujols and the Cardinals fare against the Nippon Ham Fighters, winners of the Japan Series? Nobody knows.
This is not to suggest that the World Series should be replaced, or even undergo a name change. But to be fair, critics are correct in pointing out that MLB's so-called "world champion" does not emerge from an international competition.

Let's be clear about one thing: "World champion" may be a misnomer, but there's no denying that the world's best baseball is played in the World Series. It's like having a Miss Universe pageant with the contestants only coming from Earth. Get it?

The World Baseball Classic, played for the first time in March, was an important first step and should get better every time the tournament is played. What a champions league would accomplish, however, would be the ultimate globalization of the sport.

If it's not possible to gather all the champions in one place (from MLB, Japan, Korea, Mexico and Cuba), we could at least get the winners from the U.S. and Japan together.

In fact, we already have the All-Star Tour between players from the major leagues and the Japanese leagues, played just days after the end of our World Series.

In a curious circumstance, if the New York Mets had won the Fall Classic in a seven-game series, some of their big names (Jose Reyes and David Wright) would have had exactly 24 hours to enjoy the win before getting on a plane for Tokyo. They wouldn't have even had time to participate in the victory parade.

The All-Star Tour, which is played every two years, was a much bigger deal a few years ago, but not so much anymore with the influx of Japanese players in the major leagues and, of course, Japan's impressive victory in the WBC.

A series between this year's World Series champion, the St. Louis Cardinals, and the Japan Series champion, the Nippon Ham Fighters, would have been the definitive series to determine the real club champion on the professional baseball planet.

Details could be ironed out, with games played in warm-weather cities or at sites with domed stadiums, such as Tokyo, Seattle, Houston, Arizona and California.

To allow rest time after their long and tiring seasons, reinforcement and replacement players -- maybe up to five -- could be permitted from other teams that did not make it to either league's championship series.

This would be similar to the Caribbean World Series, where the winter-league champions from Mexico, Puerto Rico, Dominican Republic and Venezuela play a round-robin series in February.

Maybe MLB would consider such a champions series an unnecessary risk, pitting its champion against another from what might be considered a lesser league. But it's the exact same concern the National League had in 1903 when the American League proposed the World Series. We know how that turned out.

Why couldn't it be the same with a series between the best of the major leagues and the best of Japan? We wouldn't be risking anything. Remember that a lot of American fans turn their backs on the World Series if a big-market team is not involved.

There's really nothing to lose, and it's the right time for baseball to crown an undisputed "world champion

[hellborn]

Why not?
It is rather silly that it's called the "World Series"...must make people from other countries laugh. I know that it's traditional and almost impossible to change, don't jump me over that, but come on.

[hellborn]

I'm curious to see what those more familiar with Japanese baseball say...I was in Japan for work last year and watched a fair amount of baseball on TV, didn't get to attend a game due to a pretty tight work schedule. I felt that the pitchers looked pretty sharp, but that most of the Japanese hitters seemed to use outdated mechanics...very high leg kicks and strong lunges into the ball that seemed to leave them very vulnerable to the highly popular breaking pitches. The US and Latin players mostly had much more compact swings that let them wait on the ball more, and they were mostly pounding the ball around the park pretty good.
Mine was a very small sample size, so I wonder what others have to say. Most of what I saw made Matsui look very compact by comparison, and he gets a lot of comment here for leg action that looks exaggerated compared to most of the "local" ballplayers (not that he's not a top notch hitter).

[SamtheBravesFan]

Why not?
It is rather silly that it's called the "World Series"...must make people from other countries laugh. I know that it's traditional and almost impossible to change, don't jump me over that, but come on.

Maybe it's time to take baseball championships to the next level.

Two fun tidbits:

When I was working at a summer camp a few years ago, I frequently talked to a guy from Macedonia. I told him about the World Series and he questioned that immediately. I said they named it in 1903 and it's not changing. "They thought big," I said. He argued about soccer being better, and I told him that I didn't care for it in general, but it is growing over here, or at least it's supposed to be.

I also felt a twang of a "What the hell?" thought when I saw a picture of the Houston Rockets celebrating in 1994. Some players were wearing official caps that said "NBA WORLD CHAMPIONS". :laugh

[Honus Wagner Rules]

I saw this today in an ESPN Chat Wrap:


Scott (FL): I support the MLB's attempt to reach overseas, but I thought that Bobby V made a great point by noting that these games were taking place during Japan's league regular season. I think the proper way to do things would be a postseaon series between the two champions, but is MLB too afraid to see their champion fall?

SportsNation Jayson Stark: (1:44 PM ET ) I agree with all of that. It's disrespectful to overshadow their season with our season. And players I've talked to really like the idea of playing the Japanese champion after the World Series. I think that will happen some day, by the way. But it's well down the road on their list of priorities.


It got me thinking what major league players did he speak to?



Jason (Memphis, TN): The Major League Champs vs. the Japan League Champs in a 7-game series sounds like a fantastic idea. It could be played in a neutral setting like Hawaii, or just rotate it each year from Japan to the US...There would be some issues with the lack of U.S. players rest, the Japan getting rest prior to it...But a series from Nov. 15th - Nov. 25th is all reasonable...We just have to tip the players a bit for them to really get invested. What do you think? Is it possible? Would it be fair? Who would win?--haha

SportsNation Jayson Stark: (1:51 PM ET ) I've explored this idea a little in the past. And that's the biggest issue -- when would you play? I think a week or so after the World Series, Nov. 7 or so, makes sense. But those issues haven't been anywhere near resolved. Heck, they've barely been debated.

The actual playing dates would be an issue for sure.

[Old Sweater]

Big no for me. It's a no win situation for MLB even if they win.

[SamtheBravesFan]

... wow, I can't believe I wrote a comment like that. :laugh I read it over and I thought, 'Wow, I wrote that like I was on crack or something.' :p

[EdTarbusz]

I agree with Old Sweater. MLB has nothing to gain by doing this.

Bobby Valentine's comment 'it's time to do battle' seems more than a little tasteless to me. Maybe he's never heard of Guadalcanal, Tarawa, Iwo Jima and Okinawa.

[SamtheBravesFan]

I still think it's a good idea on principle, but I understand that MLB has nothing to gain and everything to lose if their champion loses to the NPB champion.

[spark240]

I'd like to see a true international club championship--as distinct from an international tournament of national teams, which is what the WBC is, and I like that too. This has been discussed some (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=74860) in the International forum.

My personal preference for an international club tournament would be for it to replace the NL-AL World Series--in effect, to become the "true world series." I'd like to see the NL and AL champions seeded into opposite sides of an overall bracket, likewise the champions of the two Japanese leagues (in place of the Japan Series). The rest of the bracket would be filled out by the champions of all other top-level (for their nations) leagues.

The great thing about this scheme is that it allows a legitimate international club tournament to be put in place even while, or if, the MLB teams remain the strongest in the world. We might still expect to see the final championship series played between the NL and AL, but it would be an indisputable world series; the best of the other leagues would have actually had their shot. There is no chance of the final series being anticlimactic, as some might find an MLB-NPB series to be if it turns out that the NPB is substantially outclassed, or believed to be so. And, of course, an MLB-NPB series still isn't a world series. Maybe Kinheim and Santiago de Cuba don't have snowflakes' chances of beating out Yomiuri and Boston, but so what? If South Africa and Panama can play in the tournament of national teams (and they should), then the tournament of club teams should include the winners of all the notable leagues... sort of like the NCAA basketball tournament includes winners of lesser conferences, even when nobody expects them to reach the Final Four. The occasional upset, the rare Cinderella run, these are beautiful; they would be in baseball as well.

Yeah, keep dreaming, I know. ;)

[Imgran]

True, the travel time wouldn't necessarily be the killer, though. The jet-lag in the middle of a 7-game series, however...:ughh

Playing the series in Hawaii would be a winner in a million different ways.

[Imgran]

I meant have all other (than MLB) leagues' champions play each other for a title, then that winner play the World Series champ. That way Latin countries have a chance, as well as the Japaneese leagues.

http://www.krcg.com/uploadedImages/Shared/Sports/National_stories/world-baseball-classic.jpg

[Honus Wagner Rules]

I don't understand the argument that MLB has nothing to gain. It has plenty to gain, including money and more fans. What if the M.L. World Series champ loses to the Japanese Champ? I say "No big deal" It's not the end of the world. When the defending NLF champion Eagles lost to the just merged AAFC Cleveland Browns in 1951 did it hurt the NFL? When the Jets beat the Colts in Super Bowl III did the NFL fall apart? When the 1972 Canadian Hockey All-Star team lost to the USSR's Olympic hockey team did hockey fans go away? When Team USA lost in the WBC just two years ago did it ruin MLB? :shrug:

[SamtheBravesFan]

When Team USA lost in the WBC just two years ago did it ruin MLB? :shrug:

No, but it added to the perception that the American players didn't care about the tournament and were just going through the motions. I gaurantee you that if the MLB team lost, there would be the same perception.

[Mattingly]

Since the regular MLB season runs from April-September, with pre-season games beginning in March and post-season in October, I'd like to know when these all are for the Nippon League.

If they didn't interfere with either one, I would be enthused. However, if it were to occur in March like the last WBC, then I wouldn't be interested, since players are generally not in top physical and mental form.

If done in the first week of November, then the MLB players should be ready.

[spark240]

Imgran, the WBC is a completely different event than an international club championship, which is what this thread is discussing. If an MLB team (which might include Japanese players and others) meets an NPB team (which might include American players and others) for an officially-recognized championship, that's a club championship.

I personally am interested in seeing both types of international competition happen in a standardized and global way. A matchup of the MLB World Series winner with the NPB Japan Series winner would certainly be interesting, but it has several theoretical weaknesses.

[Old Sweater]

I don't understand the argument that MLB has nothing to gain. It has plenty to gain, including money and more fans. What if the M.L. World Series champ loses to the Japanese Champ? I say "No big deal" It's not the end of the world. When the defending NLF champion Eagles lost to the just merged AAFC Cleveland Browns in 1951 did it hurt the NFL? When the Jets beat the Colts in Super Bowl III did the NFL fall apart? When the 1972 Canadian Hockey All-Star team lost to the USSR's Olympic hockey team did hockey fans go away? When Team USA lost in the WBC just two years ago did it ruin MLB?

That's because you about support every marketing move that MLB makes. MLB is setting attendance records. Lets keep some of the traditional values of baseball, before MLB becomes a blue light special at a K Mart.

MLB has nothing to gain like I said even if they win. The best players come from all countries to MLB as it is. If Cubans start defecting to Japan, or the better MLB players start going to Japan to play against the best in the world, instead of the other way around, I could see it. Then there is the qualifiers or winners of each league. MLB players knocking heads against the best in the world for 162 +11-19 games to represent MLB while Japan is playing mostly against one countries players. Why would MLB want to stoop to a lower level of ball for a world championship that is decided in 7 games? It's baseball, anyone with talent can win in a 7 game series especially for the team that has nothing to lose? Would the same Japan team even qualify to represent if they played 162 games in MLB? I'm leaning at 99.9999% no. So why play them?

When the 1972 Canadian Hockey All-Star team lost to the USSR's Olympic hockey team did hockey fans go away? When Team USA lost in the WBC just two years ago did it ruin MLB?


Did any of these teams besides the Russians play a full season as a team against the worlds best to represent? That is the difference right there for me. Pro's in a short format for the Olympics and the WBC tournament is a big difference. Once again, that Japan team that took the WBC tournament wouldn't have even qualified in a 162 game season in MLB.

I also don't believe that the 1980 USA Olympic Hockey team would have won more then the Russians in 84 games but they was the best at the Olympics in the short format.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

No, but it added to the perception that the American players didn't care about the tournament and were just going through the motions. I gaurantee you that if the MLB team lost, there would be the same perception.

And that is a completely false perception. I saw interviews with Chipper Jones, A-Rod, Derrek Lee, and Mark Teixeira and the all said they were looking forward to playing in the WBC and playing to win. When they beat Japan in that crazy game the American players sure looked happy. How one get's the impression that they did't care is beyond me.

[SamtheBravesFan]

And that is a completely false perception. I saw interviews with Chipper Jones, A-Rod, Derrek Lee, and Mark Teixeira and the all said they were looking forward to playing in the WBC and playing to win. When they beat Japan in that crazy game the American players sure looked happy. How one get's the impression that they did't care is beyond me.

See, you and I know that to be true, but I'm certain that the impression was there because Team USA lost to Canada and Mexico. A lot of people didn't think the United States deserved to win the game against Japan because of a blown call by an umpire who also blew a home run call that would have gone against the United States in another game against Mexico.

Call it high expectactions, or call it bias. What I do know is that people think that the United States didn't win games, and therefore it stands to reason like they didn't play like a team and therefore, they didn't care. I'm convinced that perception was there and it'll creep up again.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

That's because you about support every marketing move that MLB makes. MLB is setting attendance records. Lets keep some of the traditional values of baseball, before MLB becomes a blue light special at a K Mart.
An what traditional values are those? If wanted to keep baseball traditional then the game should be played bare handed, a 50 foot mound distance, no black players, wearing knickers, day baseball only, etc. I like the idea of MLB vs NPB because it would add a new element to baseball. And the more baseball the better.

Why would MLB want to stoop to a lower level of ball for a world championship that is decided in 7 games? It's baseball, anyone with talent can win in a 7 game series especially for the team that has nothing to lose? Would the same Japan team even qualify to represent if they played 162 games in MLB? I'm leaning at 99.9999% no. So why play them?
You forget that MLB is actually two leagues with different rules, different fans mostly, and different histories. The American League is a much stronger league currently. By your argument why should the AL stoop to play the NL? Watching teams like the Rockies, Astros, and Cardinals get beat down in four games is pretty boring. Isn't the AL just wasting its time playing the national League?



Did any of these teams besides the Russians play a full season as a team against the worlds best to represent? That is the difference right there for me. Pro's in a short format for the Olympics and the WBC tournament is a big difference. Once again, that Japan team that took the WBC tournament wouldn't have even qualified in a 162 game season in MLB.
Irrelavent. The '69 NY Jets didn't face on the Colts oppoents during their regular season. Yet in the big game the Jets handled the Colt fairly easily even though everyone "knew" the Jets would lose. Then the AFL won the Super Bowl again the next season.

Also, form my previous post according to Jason Stark the major league players he spoke to would like to take on the Japanese champion. That's a positive sign for sure.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

See, you and I know that to be true, but I'm certain that the impression was there because Team USA lost to Canada and Mexico. A lot of people didn't think the United States deserved to win the game against Japan because of a blown call by an umpire who also blew a home run call that would have gone against the United States in another game against Mexico.
I can only go by what my fellow baseball fanatic buddies tell me. Several of them went to the WBC. They had a great time and they told me the ballpark was electric. We all agreed Team USA lost because they were not prepared properly. Barely a week to prepare and one practice game is not enough. I guess USA Baseball thought Team USA could just show up and win. Hopefully, they will be better prepared in '09.


Call it high expectactions, or call it bias. What I do know is that people think that the United States didn't win games, and therefore it stands to reason like they didn't play like a team and therefore, they didn't care. I'm convinced that perception was there and it'll creep up again.
I'm curious to see how the fans react in '09. Team USA better spend more time preparing. They need at least 2-3 weeks minumum to be ready.

[bigtime39]

I guess I'm the lone dissenter so far. I agree that a game between the WS Champ and the Japanese Champ would be great (maybe for charity) or even a short 3-game series. However, the logistical nightmare of arranging for a 7 game series to be held in 2 separate hemispheres would hardly be worth following. Besides, I think the player's union (not to mention the owners) would grumble about the strain of an even longer post-season.

Play it all in Japan one year, all in the US or Canada (at a warm-weather or retractable dome site) the next.

[Old Sweater]

An what traditional values are those? If wanted to keep baseball traditional then the game should be played bare handed, a 50 foot mound distance, no black players, wearing knickers, day baseball only, etc. I like the idea of MLB vs NPB because it would add a new element to baseball. And the more baseball the better.


You forget that MLB is actually two leagues with different rules, different fans mostly, and different histories. The American League is a much stronger league currently. By your argument why should the AL stoop to play the NL? Watching teams like the Rockies, Astros, and Cardinals get beat down in four games is pretty boring. Isn't the AL just wasting its time playing the national League?



Irrelavent. The '69 NY Jets didn't face on the Colts oppoents during their regular season. Yet in the big game the Jets handled the Colt fairly easily even though everyone "knew" the Jets would lose. Then the AFL won the Super Bowl again the next season.

Also, form my previous post according to Jason Stark the major league players he spoke to would like to take on the Japanese champion. That's a positive sign for sure.


Let me put it this way then since you don't think it's way easier for the Japan champ to qualify.

I think it is a really stupid idea.

[Old Sweater]

Oh yeah. To those that keep confusing tradition compared to improved equipment. Apples/Oranges and you know it.

[1995hoo]

True, the travel time wouldn't necessarily be the killer, though. The jet-lag in the middle of a 7-game series, however...:ughh

They'd need a supersonic aircraft to make it viable. Unfortunately, the only two commercial SSTs ever built (Concorde and the Tu-144) no longer fly. The supersonic business jets currently in the design process are probably too small for this purpose, but if they chartered two of them.....

[Old Sweater]

yes 59 64.13%
no 33 35.87%



This poll don't surprise me a bit after seeing how many didn't care that Billy Crystal took a players place in ST.


MLB has nothing to gain in this fairy tale WS where Cinderella has nothing to lose, without the qualifying being near as tough.

Must be more marketing support then traditionalists at BBF compared to the common fan on the street.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

This poll don't surprise me a bit after seeing how many didn't care that Billy Crystal took a players place in ST.
The major league players seem to want to play the Japanese champion according to Jason Stark. What would you tell a major leaguer that wants to play the Japanese champion, OS?

"Sir, Mr. Major Leaguer, even you you are a professional ballplayer, and I'm not, and you are a competitive athlete, and you want to share major baseball with more people across the world, and take on the Japanese champion, I don't think you should. You shouldn't play the Japanse champion because I wouldn't like it and the game should do what I say. The game should never change, never seek new markets, or never seek new fans. I just want the baseball to be how I like it to be."

.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

They'd need a supersonic aircraft to make it viable. Unfortunately, the only two commercial SSTs ever built (Concorde and the Tu-144) no longer fly. The supersonic business jets currently in the design process are probably too small for this purpose, but if they chartered two of them.....

Yes, there is no supersonic airliner on the "drawing board" at Boeing nor Airbus.

[west coast orange and black]

yes: 59 64.13%
no: 33 35.87%

old sweater: This poll don't surprise me a bit .... many didn't care that Crystal took a players place in ST.

on the money, old sweater.

[NYMets523]

5 exhibition games but not another World Series.

[EdTarbusz]

And that is a completely false perception. I saw interviews with Chipper Jones, A-Rod, Derrek Lee, and Mark Teixeira and the all said they were looking forward to playing in the WBC and playing to win. When they beat Japan in that crazy game the American players sure looked happy. How one get's the impression that they did't care is beyond me.

What else are those guys supposed to say? 'I think it's a waste of time and I could care less about this stupid tournament.'?

Anyone can get caught up in a victory, even people who don't really care about it.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

What else are those guys supposed to say? 'I think it's a waste of time and I could care less about this stupid tournament.'?
There is no reason to assume they were not being honest. Why would you assume otherwise? They seemed to be playing win. They just were not prepared. And remember the players were invited to join Team USA. They didn't have to join.

[EdTarbusz]

There is no reason to assume they were not being honest. Why would you assume otherwise? They seemed to be playing win. They just were not prepared. And remember the players were invited to join Team USA. They didn't have to join.

I think, that like most employees, they will spout the company line when talking to the media. MLB wanted it, so they were going along with it.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

I think, that like most employees, they will spout the company line when talking to the media. MLB wanted it, so they were going along with it.

Or they mean exactly what they actually said. That they actually wanted to play in the WBC and played to win.

[EdTarbusz]

Or they mean exactly what they actually said. That they actually wanted to play in the WBC and played to win.

When it comes to public figures, I rarely believe that they mean exactly what they say.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

When it comes to public figures, I rarely believe that they mean exactly what they say.

So you just assume that are all lying? I can go with that if it were just one or two players. But it was several, and not just not on Team USA but other national teams as well, that expressed that they were happy to be in the WBC. I guess we'll get a better gauge if the major leaguers really like being in the WBC next year when the 2nd WBC comes around.

[EdTarbusz]

So you just assume that are all lying? I can go with that if it were just one or two players. But it was several, and not just not on Team USA but other national teams as well, that expressed that they were happy to be in the WBC. I guess we'll get a better gauge if the major leaguers really like being in the WBC next year when the 2nd WBC comes around.

I assume that they are saying what MLB wants to hear. My feeling is most of the American players (maybe some of the international MLB players also) probably felt that the WBC was a needless distraction, just like these home openers in Japan.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

I assume that they are saying what MLB wants to hear. My feeling is most of the American players (maybe some of the international MLB players also) probably felt that the WBC was a needless distraction, just like these home openers in Japan.

I'm sure that this was true before the WBC started. But I also believe that for many of them when they actually got to the WBC and played their feelings changed. They saw the packed stadiums and the playoff atmosphere and their baseball competitive instincts took over. The players that really didn't want to play made their feelings known (Gary Sheffield) and chose not to play. Team Japan only had two major leaguers (Ichiro and Akinori Otsuka) on their squad. Most of the Japanese major leaguers didn't play for various reasons.

[DownUnderDodger]

A bit of a rehash of this topic first discussed back in 2005, but with lots of water having flowed under the bridge since it was first discussed, such as the WBC. Seems some of the feelings have not changed though, with those who supposedly support the 'traditions' of baseball continuing to be against any such notion of the MLB champs taking on the Japanese champs, using all the same old lame excuses. Now they are throwing in different excuses such as the USA did not care about the WBC and that is why they did not win it, etc, etc.

Perhaps the 'traditionalists' are actually scared that the sport they see as exclusive to USA and the MLB, is in fact a sport which other countries are currently, or are becoming, more adept at and, especially Japan at a club level, seem capable of beating the best that MLB can offer. This was proven at a national level in the WBC.

Perhaps the 'traditionalists' would prefer to see the game revert to being open within the MLB to USA/Canadian born players only, and the rest of the world can go jump!!! That won't happen because the MLB and its clubs know that to survive they need to obtain talent from other parts of the world, because the game is strong and getting stronger in other parts of the world.

Seems the insular attitude to doing anything beyond the hold the MLB has in USA only applies to the thoughts of putting the MLB reputation on the line against teams from outside the MLB. It certainly does not apply when they go out world wide and scout for players to play in their teams.

The attitude that the USA players 'don't care' about the WBC only comes from the fact that they lost. I am certain that had the USA won the WBC the trumpets would have been sounding long and loud. And the same attitude is flowing into the suggestions of a World Club Championship series, in the initial instance between MLB champs and Japanes champs. The players 'don't care' for such a series!! Rubbish, the so called 'traditionalists' are scared the game they see as exclusive to USA and MLB has expanded to such a degree that they are not the best. That would be a disaster.....to the 'traditionalists'.

Let it happen. Live with the fact that the game is forever expanding.

[SamtheBravesFan]

A bit of a rehash of this topic first discussed back in 2005, but with lots of water having flowed under the bridge since it was first discussed, such as the WBC. Seems some of the feelings have not changed though, with those who supposedly support the 'traditions' of baseball continuing to be against any such notion of the MLB champs taking on the Japanese champs, using all the same old lame excuses. Now they are throwing in different excuses such as the USA did not care about the WBC and that is why they did not win it, etc, etc.

Perhaps the 'traditionalists' are actually scared that the sport they see as exclusive to USA and the MLB, is in fact a sport which other countries are currently, or are becoming, more adept at and, especially Japan at a club level, seem capable of beating the best that MLB can offer. This was proven at a national level in the WBC.

Perhaps the 'traditionalists' would prefer to see the game revert to being open within the MLB to USA/Canadian born players only, and the rest of the world can go jump!!! That won't happen because the MLB and its clubs know that to survive they need to obtain talent from other parts of the world, because the game is strong and getting stronger in other parts of the world.

Seems the insular attitude to doing anything beyond the hold the MLB has in USA only applies to the thoughts of putting the MLB reputation on the line against teams from outside the MLB. It certainly does not apply when they go out world wide and scout for players to play in their teams.

The attitude that the USA players 'don't care' about the WBC only comes from the fact that they lost. I am certain that had the USA won the WBC the trumpets would have been sounding long and loud. And the same attitude is flowing into the suggestions of a World Club Championship series, in the initial instance between MLB champs and Japanes champs. The players 'don't care' for such a series!! Rubbish, the so called 'traditionalists' are scared the game they see as exclusive to USA and MLB has expanded to such a degree that they are not the best. That would be a disaster.....to the 'traditionalists'.

Let it happen. Live with the fact that the game is forever expanding.

See, I would like for it to happen, myself, but I don't see a reasonable way that it can be staged without someone having a distinct advantage due to one side having some rust.

[Edo]

I voted yes.

But what I would really like to see is the Japanese Leagues incorporated into the league championship play offs, there to earn, or fail to earn, a spot in the World Series.


Ed

[EdTarbusz]

As far as the WBC is concerned, the US could have routed everyone on it, and I still would have had no interest in it. Win or lose, I think most of the players didn't care about it one way or the other.

Bud Selig may push the internationalization of baseball in order to sell jerseys in Beijing and Sarajevo, but that's not going to make me interested in baseball overseas. I don't even really care if the rest of the worlds's better at baseball, I just want to see my team play their home games in their own ballpark. It was bad enough that they had to play in Milwaukee last year, I don't want to see them plaing regular season games overseas.

[Yankeebiscuitfan]

As far as the WBC is concerned, the US could have routed everyone on it, and I still would have had no interest in it. Win or lose, I think most of the players didn't care about it one way or the other.

Bud Selig may push the internationalization of baseball in order to sell jerseys in Beijing and Sarajevo, but that's not going to make me interested in baseball overseas. I don't even really care if the rest of the worlds's better at baseball, I just want to see my team play their home games in their own ballpark. It was bad enough that they had to play in Milwaukee last year, I don't want to see them plaing regular season games overseas.

That is too bad. I really believe that making the sport popular overseas will make more people want to play it. This may lead to a new pool of talent where MLB can get players from. So in the long run it may influence MLB in a positive way.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

As far as the WBC is concerned, the US could have routed everyone on it, and I still would have had no interest in it. Win or lose, I think most of the players didn't care about it one way or the other.

You keep saying this but you really haven't offered any evidence that the majority of major leaguers don't care for the WBC. Many players expresed interest in playing the WBC in '06. Some did not. And the ones that did not simply turned down their invitations to join their national teams. Your only response is that you don't believe the ballplayers. It seems you take this position because if the major leaguers do in fact have interest in playing in the WBC or playing the Japanese champion then that may be the imputus to make a MLB vs MPB "World Series" happen. And apparently, you don't want that to happen. According to Jason Stark the major leaguers he spoke with expressed a strong interest in playing the Japanse champion. They told Stark this in person when asked. They didn't say this on TV where people can claim that they are just saying what MBL wants to hear. Why would they BS Stark in person? That just doesn't make sense. It is so hard to believe the major leaguers actually do want to play the Japanese champion? Ballplayers tend to be competitive and I'm sure playing the Japanese champion would give them another avenue to compete. I'm sure to the many players who have played in the bi-annual MLB-NPB All-Star Series they've seen the high quality of baseball played in Japan.


Bud Selig may push the internationalization of baseball in order to sell jerseys in Beijing and Sarajevo, but that's not going to make me interested in baseball overseas.
That's not the only reason for the WBC. It's main purpose is allow baseball to grow and to increase the potential pool of talent. Access to more talent means a stronger game in America. We are just starting to see players from places like Australia and Curacao. I think Korea and China may be the next hotbeds of baseball talent.


I don't even really care if the rest of the worlds's better at baseball, I just want to see my team play their home games in their own ballpark. It was bad enough that they had to play in Milwaukee last year, I don't want to see them plaing regular season games overseas.
I respect your viewpoint. Many some people only care about the major league season and that's fine. But a large number of us want to see MLB in other arenas as well. And having the MLB champion play the NPB champion would be an exciting series to watch.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

I voted yes.

But what I would really like to see is the Japanese Leagues incorporated into the league championship play offs, there to earn, or fail to earn, a spot in the World Series.


Ed

I like this idea. Have a four team playoff system with the American League, National League, Central League, and Pacific League. I would seed the AL and NL oppposite so a Japanese team would have beat one of the two major leagues in the first round. I think in the early years the NL and AL would meet in the World Series anyway. But in time upsets would start occuring.

[Edo]

I like this idea. Have a four team playoff system with the American League, National League, Central League, and Pacific League. I would seed the AL and NL oppposite so a Japanese team would have beat one of the two major leagues in the first round. I think in the early years the NL and AL would meet in the World Series anyway. But in time upsets would start occuring.

I had a different idea. What I pictured was replacing the wild card slots with Japanese teams. Central league in the National League and the Pacific League in the American League. In effect making the two Japanese Leagues part of the Majors. East, Central, West and Far East divisions. But with little or no play between the Far East division and the other three during the season.

But the Wild Card has done a lot to keep fans interested in later part of the season in the States. So what I am thinking this morning is this. The wild card teams play the two Japanese League champions and the winners of those contests go to the League championships in the Majors.

The obstacles to something like this happening as enormous, but it is fun to think about.


Ed

[dbacksfan95]

hell yeah. it is the world series

[spark240]

Then there is the qualifiers or winners of each league. MLB players knocking heads against the best in the world for 162 +11-19 games to represent MLB while Japan is playing mostly against one countries players. Why would MLB want to stoop to a lower level of ball for a world championship that is decided in 7 games? It's baseball, anyone with talent can win in a 7 game series especially for the team that has nothing to lose? Would the same Japan team even qualify to represent if they played 162 games in MLB? I'm leaning at 99.9999% no. So why play them?



Did any of these teams besides the Russians play a full season as a team against the worlds best to represent? That is the difference right there for me. Pro's in a short format for the Olympics and the WBC tournament is a big difference. Once again, that Japan team that took the WBC tournament wouldn't have even qualified in a 162 game season in MLB.

I also don't believe that the 1980 USA Olympic Hockey team would have won more then the Russians in 84 games but they was the best at the Olympics in the short format.

OS, by this logic the World Series itself--the present one, the "traditional" one--is not a legitimate championship, because one league champion may have won more games in the season, or played a tougher schedule.

Indeed, some people appear to think this way, claiming that this or that WS winner wasn't really the "better team." I think this is nonsense. The championship of Major League Baseball is defined as the team that survives both the long season and the three short-series of postseason play. The team that is best constructed to do that--as demonstrated by doing it--is, by definition, the best.

If the world club championship of baseball became defined as the winner of the MLB-NPB series (not my ideal definition, see my comment (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showpost.php?p=1145243&postcount=97) a few pages above), then winning that series would then be part of what it meant to be the best team.

I think it's very understandable that major league players, especially good players on good teams, would be interested in expanding the definition of the world's best team. It's really a very traditional viewpoint, if you think back to the take-on-all-challengers approach of barnstorming teams (a format which predates interleague postseason series). Sure, the total talent pool of NPB doesn't match that of MLB; I'd be surprised if anyone in the world would make a serious argument about that, even Bobby Valentine. That's not really the point. The point is, the best teams in NPB are very good, and could give a good game against the best teams in MLB. It's absolutely natural and consistent with the spirit of baseball that players and fans on both sides should be interested in the meeting.

By the way, I have elsewhere defended the use of the terms "World Series" and "world champion." In the present global arrangement, I think it's pretty reasonable to say that the MLB World Series winner is in fact the best baseball (club) team in the world at that moment; I just don't see the problem (in a sporting sense) with opening up that global arrangement. If the MLB teams prove themselves in an expanded field, fine; if someday they don't, that's fine too. Baseball would be the richer for it, and baseball is not just MLB.

[DownUnderDodger]

That's not the only reason for the WBC. It's main purpose is allow baseball to grow and to increase the potential pool of talent. Access to more talent means a stronger game in America. Which is tantamount to saying the game would struggle in USA without calling on the overseas talent whom they then tie up in MLB clubs, thus strangling the game internationally for their own gain, which I guess is their motive.
We are just starting to see players from places like Australia and Curacao.
Australians have played in the MLB for quite a number of years. I don't know about Curacao though?

[Honus Wagner Rules]

bump :happy:

[dominik]

I'm not a japanese BB expert, but is Japanese BB any good?
I would think that a jap. team would be absolutely devasted, and wouldn't even close to win a game.

I mean maybe japanese players are more disciplined and have a better work ethic and team spirit then most american or latino guys, but the power advantage of the MLB guys would absolutely kill the japanese I think.

Even if the jap players have the same technical level, I would gess that the average jap leadgue guy is at least 30 ponds lighter then the average major leaguer. I guess there's no chance to compensate this.

To my mind this would be pointless.

[bengalbill]

I haven't read most of the six pages of posts, so if I repeat someone's idea-sorry!

I'd replace a wild card with their champ. Our wild card (unfarily schedule-wise) with the best record regardless of league instead of one from each league. Or maybe a Japanese play-in with the lesser AL/NL wildcard.

And as an ugly American I'd make them choose an American venue as their home play-off field. Although if they could win a World's Series, I'd have to admit they'd earned true home games for the "next" year.

And contract our season to allow an extra week of playoffs.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

I'm not a japanese BB expert, but is Japanese BB any good?
I would think that a jap. team would be absolutely devasted, and wouldn't even close to win a game.

Did you miss the entire World Baseball Classic in 2006? Japan won the whole thing. And only two players on their team were major leaguers. The rest of the team were players from the NPB.

I mean maybe japanese players are more disciplined and have a better work ethic and team spirit then most american or latino guys, but the power advantage of the MLB guys would absolutely kill the japanese I think.
Remember, foreign born power hitters play in the NPB. Cecil Fielder once played there.


Even if the jap players have the same technical level, I would gess that the average jap leadgue guy is at least 30 ponds lighter then the average major leaguer. I guess there's no chance to compensate this.
Can you site any sources? Hideki Matsui looks pretty big to me. Even if there is a 30 lb difference it didn't seem to to bother Japan in winning the WBC in '06.


To my mind this would be pointless.
Bobby Valentine disagrees with you. He's managed in the World Series in the majors and in Japan. And it's his view that the NPB is ready to take on the MLB.


A real World Series would be perfect

By Bob Klapisch
Thursday, October 27, 2005
Special to ESPN.com

If Bud Selig was able to cut through FOX's over-amped broadcasts -- from the video game "whoosh" that accompanied every graphic, to Scooter the talking baseball -- he'd have realized Major League Baseball was officially called out on Wednesday. The commissioner will pretend he wasn't listening, but from across the Pacific, Bobby Valentine was issuing the kind of challenge that any marketing-minded league should love.

Valentine's Chiba Lotte Marines are now ready to conquer the world, or at least the White Sox. So said the former Mets manager, who's in his second year in Japan and just led his team to a four-game sweep of the Japan Series. No foreigner has ever managed into the final round, and the experience has clearly had an effect on Valentine.

Not only is he proposing a true global championship series, he actually thinks the Marines can win. Crazy? It's anyone's guess, but Valentine told the Associated Press that after watching the White Sox and Astros on TV, he's sure his Japanese players would shock their major league counterparts.

"I can tell you the level of play is equal," Valentine said. "[The Marines] are as good as any team I've ever managed. I'd put them up against the winner of the World Series and I know we'd win at least a couple of games."

Valentine had his enemies, plenty of them, and he knows he's tweaking the very people who wish he'd stay in Japan forever, never to be heard from again. But if MLB is looking for more competition, better TV ratings -- and, sure, more money -- they should be listening. Bring Valentine and his tough little team to the U.S., and let him and Ozzie Guillen go at it for a week.

Two managers, all ego, no edit button, baseball hard-cores who live beyond the game's politically correct boundaries. A Valentine vs. Guillen war would be the perfect antidote to baseball's inability to hold its October audience.

Despite the month-long adrenaline rush America experienced during the wild-card races, everyone moved on. Going into Game 4 Wednesday night, the World Series had turned into FOX's nightmare: Ratings were down 30 percent from a year ago, and this Series was on its way to becoming the least popular TV event in the Fall Classic's history.

FOX tried everything to juice up the broadcasts, but the desperation just made the games louder and dumber. Maybe Scooter and the dirt cam created FOX flight. Then again, it might not be the network's fault. It could be that too many Yankees-Red Sox broadcasts sent the average fan fleeing into the arms of the NFL. Maybe out-of-towners are looking for someone new to root for -- or against.

Valentine is the perfect foil, and he knows it. By boasting that his mostly anonymous players are good enough to beat the planet's elite, he's harpooning the major league's very foundation. The Marines might be Japan's best team, but The Show draws from the rest of the globe's finest talent, from North and South America, the Caribbean, even Australia.

Valentine knows this. Of course he does. But there he is, ready to puncture the aura of the big league's superiority. How dare he, the game's guardians must be thinking. Is he really serious?

Better question: What's wrong with finding out?

If Selig really wanted the major leagues to regain their strut, he'd take Valentine's call and make this happen, somehow, some way. Not now, maybe, but maybe next year. Designate the last two weeks of October to a real world series, and see who's boss.

Of course, there are a million obstacles in the way. To make room on the calendar, MLB would have to end the playoffs earlier. Same goes for the regular season. That would meaning shortening the schedule to 154 games -- a suggestion that's already been soundly rejected by the owners.

The other problem is getting the players to take this series seriously. Nationalism alone doesn't seem to resonate among most American-born players, as many of them have suggested next year's baseball World Classic will be treated as nothing more than a glorified March exhibition.

No matter, says Selig. The baseball community will finally have the tournament he's worked so hard to choreograph. That's why, when asked about Valentine's challenge, the Office of the Commissioner swatted it aside like a corporate gnat.

"We've got the World Classic," an MLB spokesman said. "This [other event] hasn't been talked about."

Maybe it's time to reconsider, considering the kind of roll the White Sox are on. After nearly collapsing in September, they demolished everyone in their path, including the Indians, Red Sox, Angels and Astros. The small riot that erupted on the pitcher's mound after the final out of Game 4 told you the White Sox were convinced that the world was theirs.

Everyone was high-fiving and delivering thunderous back slaps and the clubhouse was soon under celebratory siege. Through the partying, though, was a voice thousands of miles away, telling the Sox their championship run wasn't yet complete.

"It's time to do battle," Valentine was saying. Somehow, this doesn't even sound corny.

[spark240]

bump :happy:

Thank you. I knew we had a big talk on this.