My List of Juiced Players. What's Yours? [Archive]

tommydale1

10-21-2005, 06:48 AM

These are a list of players that I think have used, and benefitted from steroids in recent years. Agree or disagree?

1. McGwire
2. Sosa
3. Bret Boone
4. Bonds
5. Giambi (juicing again?)
6. Palmeiro
7. Juan Gonzalez

McGwire and Giambi are no brainers. If it turns out that Giambi is back on his game through hard work, I'll be very surprised and impressed.

Palmeiro is busted and can't deal with it. It is unfortunate because I liked him,and his stats, a lot before this all happened. Ofcourse maybe we shouldn't be surprised. Do you think the Viagra endorsement was a clue?

Juan Gon and Bret Boone are obvious to me, and I'm surprised that not many people associate them with steroids (maybe you all do,write to let me know). Gonzalez won a minor league batting crown and hit zero homeruns in that season. Four years later, he was hitting 40+ in the bigs. He's a monster that became (suddenly) riddled with health problems. Moreover, from what we know now, he was in the right place at the right time to get involved. It just makes too much sense. As for Boone, he was an average hitter with minimal power (12-20 HR's per season) until he busted out. After all the stuff started circulating about steroids, he becomes injured often and disappears. Sounds familiar doesn't it?

Bonds and Sosa are guilty as sin. I'm not against a player working out and getting more powerful...but these two guys changed everything about their games. These two were leadoff hitter early in their careers. They were speedy punchers who had some bat speed and power...but nothing like what we see from them now. Both were very productive late in their careers, and then both got injured and disappeared.

Don't you think that it is odd that Sosa, Bonds, Giambi, and Boone all got injured around the same time, the same time that the steroid story broke. And they find it very hard to shake these injuries and get back to the game. If it was Eckstien, Jeter, and Carl Crawford...maybe I wouldn't be so suspicious. Look at the facts and tell me I'm wrong.

Let's not forget Brady Anderson and Todd Hundley.They were juiced up too. I'm not against anyone having a career year, or a breakout year...but these two guys were 'roided up pretty good.

Tell me what you think...I've been told that I'm wrong before...so it doesn't bother me.If you think I'm right...gimme a Hoorah!!

Bluesteve32

10-21-2005, 07:01 AM

I am thinking Brad Fullmer was juiced.

tommydale1

10-21-2005, 07:10 AM

I am thinking Brad Fullmer was juiced.

I remember Fullmer as a prospect for the Expos...then he showed up playing for the Angels. Looking at his stats...it's very possible. I don't know whether it was a peak in a lack-luster career, but the 'roids could be involved.

Thanks for throwing a new name in the mix. I thought of another one...Magglio Ordonez. Great numbers for a few seasons, then he disappeared. How about Carl Everett? That would explain his transformatiuon from leadoff hitter to power guy. Might also explain his temper issues.

sschirmer

10-21-2005, 07:34 AM

Felix Heredia
Rafael Betancourt
Barry Bonds
Jason Giambi
Jose Canseco
Mark McGwire
Sammy Sosa
Brady Anderson
Bret Boone
Lenny Dykstra
Raffy Palmiero
Brad Fullmer
Ryan Franklin
Alex Sanchez

That should do me, for openers at least.

Zito75

10-21-2005, 08:29 AM

Don't forget Edgar Martinez.

Big_Mac

10-21-2005, 10:09 AM

fullmer is an interesting one ive never thought of. he had good power in toronto and anaheim and then his numbers dropped off big time. i dont even know where he is now

OldEnglishD

10-21-2005, 10:16 AM

.......

Alex Sanchez

LOL ... still kills me that guy was the first casualty. I almost spit my coffee out when I heard that for the first time. I actually thought it was a joke.

Then I realized that it made sense that it wasn't just for the power hitters using them to bulk up.

So my list, along those lines - could literally be ANYONE !

wamby

10-21-2005, 10:48 AM

Call me cynical, but I am suspicious of every single prfessional baseball player. I don't think every single one was a user, but I think the non-users were tolerant of the users and didn't do anything to rid the game of steroids. I suppose there was too much money to be made.

Dasperp

10-21-2005, 10:59 AM

Bonds and Sosa are guilty as sin. I'm not against a player working out and getting more powerful...but these two guys changed everything about their games. These two were leadoff hitter early in their careers. They were speedy punchers who had some bat speed and power

Even before Bonds got big and his head grew to about double its previous size he had a lot of power. I don't think he started using until at least the late 90's. I'd say without 'roids he still would have been one of the all-time greats, just not top 5. And in the same vein as Juan Gone, i think Pudge definitely used. He lost a ton of weight this year and most of his power.

west coast orange and black

10-21-2005, 11:16 AM

These are a list of players that I think have used, and benefitted from steroids in recent years...hey, you forgot tony gwynn:
'82 - 1 hr
'83 - 1
'84 - 5
'85 - 6
'86 - 14 !
.
.
.
'96 - 3
'97 - 17
'98 - 16
'99 - 10

also, his only two back-to-back over-.500 slugging seasons were when he was 37 and 38 years old! :eek:

oldenglish said it best: it could be anyone.

hudsonharden

10-21-2005, 12:38 PM

Don't think pitchers don't juice as well.

John Rocker, Kenny Rogers, Billy Koch, and Eric Gagne are all suspect in my mind.

ndistops

10-21-2005, 12:46 PM

Bonds
Giambi
(anyone else implicated in the BALCO scandal - Armando Rios, Estalella, Benard, etc.)
McGwire
Big Hurt
B. Boone
Palmeiro
Brady Anderson
Albert Belle
Mo Vaughn (?)
Juan-Gone (?)
Thome (?)
Pat Burrell (?)
Henry Rodriguez (?) - had one 40-homer season for the Cubs in 98 then disappeared

There's probably a lot more I could come up with given enough time but that's one man's 3-minute list.

Francoeurstein

10-21-2005, 12:59 PM

I also think Caminiti was juiced....

Captain Cold Nose

10-21-2005, 02:03 PM

I also think Caminiti was juiced....
Considering he did admit it helped in his rehab, I think that's a safe assumption.

Sharkeater232

10-21-2005, 02:57 PM

Don't forget Edgar Martinez.No he did not. He is friends with Ichiro.

jpenrod

10-21-2005, 03:36 PM

What about Brady Anderson? I have heard of career years, but come on!

Big Hurt, NDI? Really?

I want a list of all the players that Ichiro Suzuki is friends with so I can rule them free of suspicion!

Yankeebiscuitfan

10-21-2005, 04:48 PM

How about Pudge Rodriguez?

Joltin' Joe

10-21-2005, 05:00 PM

Gary Sheffield

Astro

10-21-2005, 08:23 PM

I think the maker of this thread, tommydale1, is on the juice....

king_ghidora

10-21-2005, 09:16 PM

Theoretically any player could be on steroids. I just go for the ones who are visually obvious (yes, Giambi is still juicin' like a Jamba Juice) and give a little less suspicion to guys who look more fat than anything (Edgar Martinez, Cecil Fielder). Perhaps I'm being presumptious, but I usually never suspect Japanese players. I can say that my Japanese relatives would just about blow a gasket if they found out I was abusing steroids -- too much honor (and don't give me a bunch of hate for saying that, people).

Bret Boone seems like such an obvious and sad case. The guy had arms bigger than Ichiro's whole body from 2001-2003. Steroids suddenly become and issue and his numbers dwindle to the point where he can't get any major league team to pick him up. He wasn't able to get his career back on track the way Pudge Rodriguez has been able to.

Also, some guys look like they may have done 'roids at one point, but aren't anymore. Take Albert Pujols - come on! Who has arms like that outside of a Pro Wrestling ring? The only others who fill up uniform sleeves like that were Sosa, McGwire, Canseco, and Giambi. His consistency leads me to believe he isn't juicing now, but back in the DR, it seems like a strong possibility. It's like Boone: when I see the arms, I start springing to suspicion. Oh, and one more thing: who out there has ever seen a photo of Jason Giambi from when he was a scrawny Oakland prospect? It's hilarious.

steveox

10-21-2005, 09:36 PM

Why havent MLB investigate these players?
Jason Giambi
Manny Ramírez
David Ortiz
Gary Sheffield
Andruw Jones
Derrek Lee
Mike Piazza
I think those guys need to be kept an eye on by MLB.

MyDogSparty

10-21-2005, 10:11 PM

Take Albert Pujols - come on! Who has arms like that outside of a Pro Wrestling ring? ... but back in the DR, it seems like a strong possibility.

Pujols was 15 years old when he was in the DR. He moved to the US when he was 16. (that's assuming his current age is legit) Do you think he was using steroids at that age?

Oatmeal

10-22-2005, 01:58 AM

Everyone seems to omit Scott Rolen from the list. Anyone remember what this doughboy used to look like in Philly?

rainout

10-22-2005, 08:30 AM

So let me see . . . the consensus seems to be that anyone who has achieved any amount of success in MLB the past 10 years is on steroids. :crazy

ssbguyincognito

10-22-2005, 09:41 AM

Not true. A-rod and Griffey, for example, are never (and will never) be under suspicion.

The Big Hurt has always been very vocal about being against steroids, and I for one believe him.

While Pujols should be innocent until proven guilty, I'm alwas casting a suspicious eye at him. Because he says he's 25 (even though he's going bald!), and he's HUGE. Compare him at 25 to any other 25 year old out there in the game, or in the world. Pujols is a monster. I'd say he's either a lot older than 25, or juicing, or both.

runningshoes

10-22-2005, 10:21 AM

The Center for the Study of Illegal Substances is looking for 10 new, opinionated, steroid experts. I hope you guys don't mind, but I submitted your resumes. ;)

moviegeekjan

10-22-2005, 10:49 AM

The Center for the Study of Illegal Substances is looking for 10 new, opinionated, steroid experts. I hope you guys don't mind, but I submitted your resumes. ;)

Good call... this has to rank among the most pointless of threads ever

Zito75

10-22-2005, 11:08 AM

Henry Rodriguez (?) - had one 40-homer season for the Cubs in 98 then disappeared

Hilarious! I totally forgot about this guy even existed until this thread. Good call! ;)

west coast orange and black

10-22-2005, 11:19 AM

ssbguyincognito, meet mr. roy cohn.

runningshoes

10-22-2005, 11:58 AM

STLCards2

10-22-2005, 04:07 PM

I was balder than Pujols at the age of 20. I look pretty darn good too, if I might add!:)

Go Bravos!!!#1

10-22-2005, 06:24 PM

omg look at these stats for Brady Anderson

Home Runs
21
13
12
16
50!!!
18
18
24
19

Keep in mind that these are all in consecutive years ,and if he really found out a key to unlocking his power he would have consistantly hit 25 -30.
His highest total after 50 was ...24?

Somebody hand Brady his syringe!!! :laugh

ssbguyincognito

10-22-2005, 08:28 PM

Brannu

10-23-2005, 02:03 AM

I would add:

R. Klesko, B. Giles, J. Thome and L. Gonzalez. Possibly A. Beltre, too.

My less questionable would be S. Green and T. Helton.

Brannu

10-23-2005, 02:05 AM

But is anyone doubting how huge Pujols is at the age of 25? He's like one of those freak bodybuilders you see on ESPN. He's GIGANTIC, and he's (supposedly) 25. He looks like he could eat five David Eckstein's and have room left for Ichiro.

They said that he has been battling a weight problem for a long time. They had him consistently working on that when he was in The Minors. Yadier Molina better take some tips from Pujols or he's gonna be tipping the scale pretty soon.

Steve Jeltz

10-23-2005, 02:21 AM

Kirby Puckett went from 0 HR in 1985 to 31 in 1986. Despite the fact he never remotely resembled a bodybuilder, does improving by 31 homers mean that Puckett was on the juice?:rolleyes:

Jake83

10-23-2005, 02:45 AM

This spectulation is very dangerous

Not any of us know for a fact that any player that has not been caught has used steroids but through what happen this year 3 players come to mind
Bret Boone-Or maybe age just caught up with him Very few second basemen continue to hit in their late 30's

Jim Thome- Or maybe just was injuries

Steve Finley- He doesn't have the body type to make you think but his production this year makes you ask questions

Sweet Lou

10-23-2005, 08:32 AM

Ichiro (when he played in Japan, he was 5-3, and weighed 94 llbs. NOW look at him!)
David Eckstein (Same as Ichiro, only substitute Japan with the sandlot)
Joey Cora (so he can wave runners home better)
John Olerud (so he can get taller)
Kaz Matsui (he had 7 HR last year, and suddely this year he drops down to 3? And get's "injured" and can't seem to recover? C'mon, a no-brainer!)
Craig Counsell (So he can hold his bat higher, stick his rear out further, and increase his strike zone)
Aaron Miles (Ever heard of him? 5-7? 180 lbs? 2 HR? Sounds suspicious to me)
Orlando Palmeiro (cuz he's related to Raphy...he is related, isn't he?)
Lou Piniella (This would explain the temper)
George Steinbrenner (Same as Piniella)

Sharkeater232

10-23-2005, 06:16 PM

Ichiro (when he played in Japan, he was 5-3, and weighed 94 llbs. NOW look at him!)No

David Eckstein (Same as Ichiro, only substitute Japan with the sandlot)No

Joey Cora (so he can wave runners home better)Oh Brother.

John Olerud (so he can get taller):rolleyes:

Kaz Matsui (he had 7 HR last year, and suddely this year he drops down to 3? And get's "injured" and can't seem to recover? C'mon, a no-brainer!)4 homeruns is not a big difference.

Craig Counsell (So he can hold his bat higher, stick his rear out further, and increase his strike zone)Lair

Aaron Miles (Ever heard of him? 5-7? 180 lbs? 2 HR? Sounds suspicious to me)How?

Orlando Palmeiro (cuz he's related to Raphy...he is related, isn't he?)Just because he's related to a steroid kid, doesn't mean he does it.

Lou Piniella (This would explain the temper)Steroids and tempor aren't related.

George Steinbrenner (Same as Piniella)Same.

I don't agree with any of these guys!

Yankee Legend

10-23-2005, 06:47 PM

Interesting a witch-hunt thread.

For me my list is anyone who is proven or admitted to using "preformance-enhancers"

STLCards2

10-23-2005, 09:00 PM

The entire Cardinals batting order. They scored like crazy their first four games of the post-season, then looked silly the next five. Their slump is an obvious indication that they all stopped using steroids after Game 1 of the NLCS. Everybody heard the rumors about Pujols' balding and weight problem in which he has been struggling with since high school and got scared of getting caught.:dance

Sweet Lou

10-23-2005, 09:29 PM

Same.

I don't agree with any of these guys!

Puh-leez tell me you didn't take me seriously! My gosh, I was kidding, you know, tongue in cheek, sarcasm, etc. :rolleyes:

I try to add a little levity to the situation, and it goes nowhere. :ughh

west coast orange and black

10-23-2005, 09:51 PM

Puh-leez tell me you didn't take me seriously!... I try to add a little levity to the situation, and it goes nowhere.some of us read you loud and clear, lou, so keep the faith. here is my #10 post:

tony gwynn:
'82 - 1 hr; '83 - 1; '84 - 5; '85 - 6; '86 - 14 !

'96 - 3; '97 - 17; '98 - 16; '99 - 10

also, his only two back-to-back over-.500 slugging seasons were when he was 37 and 38 years old!:eek:

Sweet Lou

10-23-2005, 09:58 PM

some of us read you loud and clear, lou, so keep the faith. Thanks my brutha! I guess I broke my own rule and forgot smileys and grins. :) :D
Take care,
Lou

tonjes

10-23-2005, 10:12 PM

here's my list...

jackie robinson (how else could he have broken the color barrier?)
orel hershiser
ron santo
henry rowengartner
ozzie smith
scott posednick
tommy lasorda
roberto clemente
jack buck
frankie frisch (had a lot of pop for a little fella)

guys, this thread is idiotic. i don't know why anyone wastes their time trying to implicate players when they have no proof in favor or defense of a guy's steroid use. and let it drop with the guys who have tested positive. i'm tired of people constantly bitching about them. history will judge them appropriately.

this stuff seriously pisses me off, and as soon as i find a way to kick someone's ass over the internet, look out!

runningshoes

10-23-2005, 10:20 PM

What about Babe Ruth?

He must have been selling them out of his locker. :rolleyes:

digglahhh

10-23-2005, 10:58 PM

This thread should be moved to Salem...

Oh wait, one more...

McCarthy called, he wants his mentality back...

chisox2k5

10-23-2005, 11:12 PM

Tired of discussions like this...

RBi

10-23-2005, 11:26 PM

But this could be considered slander couldn't it?

Slander: a false and defamatory oral statement about a person

Then,

de·fam·ing: to harm the reputation of by libel or slander

Which is in the rules....

I would just hate for someone to do a google search for the words "juiced players" and get this thread.

This is not what we are about here..

Honestly I am shocked that this thread has lasted as long as it has...

Just my opinion.

runningshoes

10-23-2005, 11:41 PM

But this could be considered slander couldn't it?

It certainly could, but most of BBF's member hide behind anonymity so running off at the mouth is no big deal.

RBi

10-23-2005, 11:46 PM

It certainly could, but most of BBF's member hide behind anonymity so running off at the mouth is no big deal.

No doubt... some will even move to Manila to hide...

Hmmz...:rolleyes: Where is it that you live?

hehe....

I should google your name and see what you are wanted for.

HAHA

runningshoes

10-23-2005, 11:57 PM

I should google your name and see what you are wanted for.

You don't have enough paper for the print out. ;)

runningshoes

10-23-2005, 11:59 PM

I should google your name and see what you are wanted for.

And if you don't watch it, I'll forget to give my mother that jersey when she leaves next week. :p

RBi

10-24-2005, 12:00 AM

And if you don't watch it, I'll forget to give my mother that jersey when she leaves next week. :p

HEHEHE..

Now now now..

What we can accuse people of being on roids, but we cant have a lil fun?

HEHE

tell mom I said hello!

Captain Cold Nose

10-24-2005, 01:23 PM

HR total is not the true evidence.

All one needs is to compare how big a player's head was on his baseball cards in a span of ten years. Never mind the angles may be different or sometimes it's not so clear, this is just so easy to spot and should be held as admissible evidence in any court of law.

It's just so obvious. :crazy

Astro

10-24-2005, 02:12 PM

BringBackPedro

10-24-2005, 02:24 PM

Why havent MLB investigate these players?
Jason Giambi
Manny Ramírez
David Ortiz
Gary Sheffield
Andruw Jones
Derrek Lee
Mike Piazza
I think those guys need to be kept an eye on by MLB.'

Manny, Mike Piazza, David Ortiz, and Andruw Jones.

Manny and Papi are just chubby

Piazza's a toothpick.

Add these..

The Baltimore Orioles

Miguel Tejada
Jay Gibbons
Julio Lugo

The Detroit Tigers
Everyone

Someone probably just read Jose Canseco's book and believed that crap

Ravenlord

10-24-2005, 02:48 PM

sweaver

10-24-2005, 03:32 PM

The trouble is, you don't know and I don't know, and none of us will know for sure just how many players of the 1990s (and 2000s) took steroids. Some, like Canseco and Caminiti, have admitted it. Some, like Palmeiro, have been caught. Most of the guys who have been caught are backup infielders and middle relievers, guys on nobody's list.

And in 10 or 20 years, this will all pass over, like the 1980s cocaine scandal did.

Mattingly

10-24-2005, 04:04 PM

Felix Hernandez MUST be on the juice, cause 10 years ago his head was a lot smaller than it is now... so obvious
He's also pretty clutch. With two outs, 2 on, he'd always let those runners score before the next batter made the 3rd out. Of course, he was a pitcher, unlike a slugger. :D

Of all the people who've been caught using steroids, Felix Heredia is the name that most symbolizes the "I got ripped off with junk juice" thing.

BangorRedSoxfan

10-24-2005, 06:39 PM

Astro

10-24-2005, 07:31 PM

For those of you who didnt get my sarcasm, Felix Hernandez was 9 years old 10 years ago

ichiro262

10-24-2005, 08:42 PM

"As for Boone, he was an average hitter with minimal power (12-20 HR's per season) until he busted out. After all the stuff started circulating about steroids, he becomes injured often and disappears. Sounds familiar doesn't it?

Bonds and Sosa are guilty as sin. I'm not against a player working out and getting more powerful...but these two guys changed everything about their games. These two were leadoff hitter early in their careers. They were speedy punchers who had some bat speed and power...but nothing like what we see from them now. Both were very productive late in their careers, and then both got injured and disappeared.

Don't you think that it is odd that Sosa, Bonds, Giambi, and Boone all got injured around the same time, the same time that the steroid story broke. And they find it very hard to shake these injuries and get back to the game. If it was Eckstien, Jeter, and Carl Crawford...maybe I wouldn't be so suspicious. Look at the facts and tell me I'm wrong."
tommydale1 said this...not sure what happened with the quote thing

Oh, where do I begin. Let's start with Bonds and Boone. You're right, Barry used to be a 40 sbs and great average player. BUT HE HAS ALWAYS HIT LOTS OF HOMERS. I may be in the minority here, but I want to believe the guy. I mean, it's not like his BA has ever dipped, and MOST players develop their best power numbers later in their career. I can think of tons of players (Andruw Jones, Derrek Lee, Melvin Mora, etc.) who have just gotten better with age. And word has it that Bonds is going to drop some weight to shut up his critics and steal some bases next season. As for Bret Boone, analysts (Peter Gammons specifically) were saying this guy had the home run swing his entire career, and that he just needed to go to a team with better hitting instruction. When he broke out for the Mariners, literally EVERYONE on that team was hitting -- aka they were all hot. That happens with good teams. And I'm a little confused as to what you're talking about with injuries. Bret Boone has had minor injuries that come with age. The guy is 36, he's just falling apart. It would be weird if a guy his age or older wasn't dealing with minor injuries. What about Julio Franco, 47 -- how come no one EVER talks about steroids with him? I mean, he has never been a home run hitter because he has an inside out swing that's made for singles and doubles, steroids would allow him to stay ripped (in case you haven't seen him lately he is ridiculously strong).
As for Sosa, it is a little fishy that he got his lawyer to speak for him at the hearings. But I don't know what you're talking about in terms of him lacking power. He started hitting homers his third year in (15 -- and his first full season) and two seasons later he hit 33. They checked ALL of his bats to see if any were corked and none were. In terms of injuries for all these guys, let me say this: THEY ARE OLD. Most young guys can't play an entire year without minor injuries, and these guys are all pushing 40.

ichiro262

10-24-2005, 08:50 PM

I think the maker of this thread, tommydale1, is on the juice....

GOOD CALL -- NO DOUBT

DownUnderDodger

10-24-2005, 11:47 PM

Interesting a witch-hunt thread.

For me my list is anyone who is proven or admitted to using "preformance-enhancers"
I'm with you Yankee Legend. Unless the MLB has already dropped the random testing, players are being tested this season, so there is no proof that any of the named players are on anything except a baseball field (except those who have admitted it or been tested positive). Of course no-one can safely say who did what in the 80's, 90's or any other era for that matter because there was no testing then, so speculation has become rife in this thread!! Gee...Podsednik hit a HR yesterday - he must be juiced up!! :p :laugh

Brian2944

10-25-2005, 02:48 AM

The saddest thing I have noticed is how much baseball fans want to talk about unproven suspicion. Whenever I see a friend and we talk baseball, they always bring up who they think is on steroids. It's quickly moving from back-burner to front-burner.

For me..I'm going to enjoy baseball the way I always have. There is a lot of good things going on in baseball today. History is being made, and a lot of fans are going to look back and remember the steroid issue above everything. I'm not going to let it ruin my enjoyment to watch players perform unless it is proven.

parrish15

08-15-2006, 11:56 PM

fullmer is an interesting one ive never thought of. he had good power in toronto and anaheim and then his numbers dropped off big time. i dont even know where he is now

His 2nd year with Aniheim he was the best hitter in the majors for 2 week(May) and then running out a grounder he hyperextended his knee.Came back the next year with Texas and did the same thing:noidea :noidea :noidea
**** I felt for the guy,he busted his nut trying to prove himself and it blows up in his face.Knew he was taking a year off to recoup but don't know where he is now?? Did a search & found this thread:waving

Imapotato

08-16-2006, 02:16 AM

Even before Bonds got big and his head grew to about double its previous size he had a lot of power. I don't think he started using until at least the late 90's. I'd say without 'roids he still would have been one of the all-time greats, just not top 5. And in the same vein as Juan Gone, i think Pudge definitely used. He lost a ton of weight this year and most of his power.

and that's what's sad

I don't think he'd be top 5....but def top 10 and the best player since Willie Mays

Seeing Brady Anderson's name made me wonder

His name always comes up because of 1 year....but I really don't think he did steroids

It just doesn't come and go that quickly....Brady had a fluke year and it probably had more to do with the new 'juiced' ball and an adjustment period for Pitchers who wondered why the heck their grips were off and the ball travelled further

strosfan

08-17-2006, 11:41 AM

I think Pujols' mom was juicing while pregnant with Albert!!! Does that count???

holyroman

08-17-2006, 11:51 AM

the ball is still juiced. has been for 4 or 5 years I can't remember. Whenever they started wounding/stiching that thing tighter using a different factory that thing started flying out.

SBBL

08-12-2007, 02:54 PM

Doe anybody remember Brian Downing w/ the CA Angels? Talk about a cartoonish transformation.

Roger Clemens always seems to get a free ride on this issue. In the 80's he and Gooden had similar bodies. Now, we know Gooden hasn't needed to juice up to get better - so it's easy to see the difference w/ Clemens. How come nobody is riding this phony?

SamtheBravesFan

08-12-2007, 03:01 PM

Suspecting Jones is a bit bizzare. I think he has become more of an all-or-nothing slugger in the past few seasons. He takes these huge, massive swings that sometimes make him go down on one knee. Of course he's going to hit a few more home runs. He pretty much has struck out at this level for years, and he has never hit for average, so I'm going to chalk this one up to his swing instead of steroids for now.

Ytown Tribe fan

08-12-2007, 03:12 PM

Babe Ruth was juiced an awful lot of the time, and on interstate trains, too. That was illegal for a good portion of his career too (1920-1933), and there is no doubt that a good drink every so often may well have enhanced his performance, as well as many other ballplayers of that era.

How did those lawbreakers ever get into the HoF?

Old Sweater

08-12-2007, 04:04 PM

Juan Pierre
David Eckstein
Jamey Carroll

EdmondsFan#1

08-12-2007, 04:10 PM

Ichiro.

And Pujols isn't 25 he's 27.

Sockeye

08-12-2007, 04:44 PM

Ken Caminiti
Brady Anderson
Luis Gonzalez

Spazz

08-12-2007, 05:39 PM

While Pujols should be innocent until proven guilty, I'm alwas casting a suspicious eye at him. Because he says he's 25 (even though he's going bald!), and he's HUGE. Compare him at 25 to any other 25 year old out there in the game, or in the world. Pujols is a monster. I'd say he's either a lot older than 25, or juicing, or both.Finally, someone put it into words. As much as I like the dude, I also find myself looking sideways at him with a suspicious eye. The age claim is laughable. Where he's from, you can pretty much type your own birth certificate. Or you can whip out the payola and have some "official" do it on nice bonded paper. He's got natural talent, no question about it. But don't expect me to be surprised if someone finds a dose or two of HGH in the woodpile. Oh by the way, I'd guess him to be about 32.

SamtheBravesFan

08-12-2007, 05:53 PM

Just because Pujols is one of the best players in baseball, and balding, he is automatically older than 25. Maybe, just maybe, he is 25, just very mature.
I have seen 18 year olds start to go bald. That has nothing to do with it. By the way, everyone is forgetting Jason Giambi, who came out and confessed also, and is still on something.

I'm 24 years old, and I'm going bald, but that's because I have my grandfather's male-pattern baldness genes. So, you're right, that shouldn't be an indicator.

Solo

08-12-2007, 05:54 PM

Did anyone mention Guillermo Mota?

SamtheBravesFan

08-12-2007, 05:54 PM

Seattle1

08-12-2007, 06:48 PM

Don't forget Edgar Martinez.

I would bet my life that Edgar never touched steroids.

Solo

08-12-2007, 07:15 PM

Did anyone mention Guillermo Mota?

Erik Bedard

08-12-2007, 07:34 PM

I would bet my life that Edgar never touched steroids.

I wouldn't. I wouldn't bet on Ichiro having nothing to do with them either.

TonyStarks

08-12-2007, 07:34 PM

Did anyone mention Guillermo Mota?

He was already suspended for Roids I believe.

---

Why hasn't anyone mentioned Gary Sheffield? Brian Giles?

I've kinda suspected David Ortiz too...I don't want to believe it.
But his numbers in Minn. compared to Boston look a hell of alot different.

cardsfanatic

08-12-2007, 08:35 PM

Finally, someone put it into words. As much as I like the dude, I also find myself looking sideways at him with a suspicious eye. The age claim is laughable. Where he's from, you can pretty much type your own birth certificate. Or you can whip out the payola and have some "official" do it on nice bonded paper. He's got natural talent, no question about it. But don't expect me to be surprised if someone finds a dose or two of HGH in the woodpile. Oh by the way, I'd guess him to be about 32.

I already know whatever I say here will be passed off as "oh, a Card fan defending Pujols! Oh noes!!" However, I just have to respond to this.

A) While not typical, it's still fairly common for males to begin losing their hair in their early to mid-twenties. It's not like Pujols is the only guy in his mid-20's losing his hair.

B) I always see people questioning his age. I'll admit that guys from the DR have lied about their age in the past. However, after a little thing called 9/11, the US Gov't allocated a rather large budget to this thing called Homeland Security. One of their efforts was to track down legit and authentic birth certificates and all records on EVERYONE who entered the country and wasn't a US born citizen. Many baseball players as a result saw their birthdates change. Pujols' birth certificate held up as legit. Now, you're welcome to believe what you wish. But the people with all the money, resources and time to spend on the matter investigated it and say Pujols' date of birth is accurate.

C) Maybe Pujols is on the juice. Maybe he isn't. I can't go to bat for him there. However, there's a ton of players you can say the same thing about. I just don't understand how people are so willing to believe guys like Ted Williams and Babe Ruth were au naturale when their stat lines read like a video game... yet any guy who can rake anywhere close to their levels these days just _has_ to be on roids. The human race has come a _looooooong_ way since the 1920's with all of our advancements and in 50 years, they'll be even more advanced than us. We can accept this fact in our daily lives but when it comes to baseball... well, heck. No one can possibly be alive today that can rake like the "old guys" without steroids. It's sad...

psbaseballfan27

08-12-2007, 09:04 PM

Anyone could of taken them.

Seattle1

08-12-2007, 09:09 PM

I wouldn't bet on Ichiro having nothing to do with them either.

Because he looks so bulked up?

:laugh

Old Sweater

08-12-2007, 10:20 PM

Because he looks so bulked up?

:laugh

Probably because he said he could lead the league in HR's if he wanted to.:laugh

mwb

08-12-2007, 10:51 PM

Not sure this thread is very constructive. It's difficult enough trying to figure out how to handle the careers of players we are pretty certain used steriods. Now we're creating more players under suspicion. Not exactly a happy thought.

Although among all the players listed, I do wonder about Lenny Dykstra. He went from Clark Kent to Superman in one off-season. Could he be more obvious?

EdmondsFan#1

08-12-2007, 11:37 PM

Because he looks so bulked up?

:laugh

*cough* Winstrol *cough*

Westlake

08-12-2007, 11:48 PM

Stumanji

08-13-2007, 12:43 AM

What about Babe Ruth?

:nod: Glad someone said it. :nod:

I'm thinking he was on some sort of Horse Hormone or something. When he set the HR record that stood until 1961, he was DOZENS of homeruns above his competition. GUILTY!

And for Hank Aaron - the guy just had too much longevity to suggest that he was clean.

Francoeurstein

08-13-2007, 06:01 AM

Felix Hernandez MUST be on the juice, cause 10 years ago his head was a lot smaller than it is now... so obvious

Ten years ago he was in 7th grade like me hahaha.

Francoeurstein

08-13-2007, 06:03 AM

Luis Gonzalez

Good point Sockeye, I haven't seen his name up here yet. He had that 57 homer season and he was done.

Neilios

08-13-2007, 08:02 AM

Jay Bell (I think the most obvious that hasn't been mentioned yet)
Matt Williams
Todd Hundley
Jay Buhner

Was it seriously just the mile high air, or did Andres Galarraga, Dante Bichette, Vinny Castilla, Larry Walker and Ellis Burks coincidentally have the same best 4-6 best years of their career at the same time as teammates for other reasons?

SamtheBravesFan

08-13-2007, 09:09 AM

David Eckstein
Ichiro Suzuki
Ryan Freel
Dustin Pedroia
Bubba Crosby
Casey Fossum
Nick Markakis
Roy Halladay
Scott Podsednik
Jason Tyner
Bobby Crosby
Jason Kendall
Mark DeRosa
Michael Young
Mark Loretta
Josh Willingham
Jose Reyes
Paul Lo Duca
Ryan Church
Erik Bedard
Kelly Johnson
Adam Everett
Roy Oswalt
Tim Wakefield
Jack Wilson
Ryan Doumit
Austin Kearns
Barry Bonds

Man, you've run the gauntlet here, haven't you?

Some of these don't make much sense to me. I mean, Jose Reyes? And what's your reason to suspect Kelly Johnson? (I can guess, but I just want you to tell me.)

Seriously, Tim Wakefield? He's all about power like I'm all about pink and rainbows.

Erik Bedard

08-13-2007, 09:56 AM

Because he looks so bulked up?

:laugh

Who was the first person caught by MLB's testing policy?

EdmondsFan#1

08-13-2007, 10:50 AM

Ken Caminiti said at least half of the guys are probably on steroids.

SamtheBravesFan

08-13-2007, 01:23 PM

Who was the first person caught by MLB's testing policy?

A little-talent journeyman fighting for a job, that's what.

Erik Bedard

08-13-2007, 03:46 PM

... who also happened to be a guy with six career HRs, and only four before he tested positive.

SamtheBravesFan

08-13-2007, 04:11 PM

... who also happened to be a guy with six career HRs, and only four before he tested positive.

See, there we go. Most of the people being caught are benchies wanting a major league job, or fringe pitchers. Palmeiro is the only "high-profile" catch. Either this means that we need to be looking at the fringe players, or that the fringe players can't afford to use the undetectables.

Paulypal

08-13-2007, 08:07 PM

I would type out a list but I would get MTS in my hands because the list is hundreds and probably thousands....so I will pass.

SamtheBravesFan

08-13-2007, 08:18 PM

I would type out a list but I would get MTS in my hands because the list is hundreds and probably thousands....so I will pass.

Why don't you just say it's everyone and call it a day? ;)

#1WhiteSoxFan

08-13-2007, 08:24 PM

DiMag4Life

08-13-2007, 08:50 PM

And Pujols isn't 25 he's 27.

That's because those statements were made in '05.

Seattle1

08-13-2007, 10:18 PM

If either Edgar or Ichiro ever touched steroids even once in their entire lives I would eat my hat. Then I would eat my shoes. And I wouldn't even bother to wash off the soles first! Translation: Edgar and Ichiro are clean as a whistle.

Now if you want to talk about Seattle Mariners that might have been on the juice, you'd probably do better to bring up the name Brett Boone.

Erik Bedard

08-14-2007, 06:49 AM

You'd better make sure you've got a tasty hat and shoes available... just in case. While I think it's highly unlikely that Ichiro used steroids, he DID play on the same team as Boone, who has been all but caught. And steroids don't just make you hit HRs, so we can't rule him out. If I had to bet on it, I'd say that neither Ichiro nor Edgar used steroids, but the fact remains that on the 2001 Mariners, there was at least one player who was likely juicing, and from what we know about these things, they tend to spread.

howiek

08-14-2007, 03:20 PM

Wouldn't it be easier to make a list of player NOt using roids. Its called evolution. Times change. I've never done them. But, eventaully I think it
will be excepted when people realize how many players are using

DiMag4Life

08-15-2007, 06:26 AM

hey, you forgot tony gwynn:
'82 - 1 hr
'83 - 1
'84 - 5
'85 - 6
'86 - 14 !
.
.
.
'96 - 3
'97 - 17
'98 - 16
'99 - 10

also, his only two back-to-back over-.500 slugging seasons were when he was 37 and 38 years old! :eek:

You've got to be kidding me.:laugh :laugh :laugh :laugh :laugh :laugh :laugh :laugh

Any proof, indication of increase in frame, or anything?

It's not like he went from 10 HR. to 40 HR.

If you look at any slight increase in HR. production, then just about every player must've taken steriods, for pete's sake.

Wade Boggs hit 24 one year, after years of hitting 7-12.

Is he on steriods?

Lou Gehrig went from 20 HR. to 47 HR the next.

Was he on steriods?

Foxx went from 13 HR. to 33 HR. the next year, and 58 the year after that.

Was he on steriods?

Williams went from 23 one year to 37 HR. the next.

Was he on steriods?

Derek Jeter hit 10 HR. one year, 19 + 24 HR. the next two years.

Was he on steriods?

Jeez.

PVNICK

08-15-2007, 06:32 AM

Derek Jeter hit 10 HR. one year, 19 + 24 HR. the next two years.

Was he on steriods?

Jeez.
Hey, last night they showed Phil Rizzuto calling Jeter's 1st HR in 1996 or 1995. Jeter looked real thin, not as big as he does now. I wonder?

DiMag4Life

08-15-2007, 06:34 AM

He's still pretty thin.

PVNICK

08-15-2007, 06:41 AM

... and a class act. He still referred to Phil Rizzuto as Mr. Rizzuto. Just being facetious on the size but I'm sure you knew that.

Mariano_Rivera

08-15-2007, 06:47 AM

--------------------

FatAngel

08-15-2007, 07:21 AM

With no offense to Phillies fans, I believe that about two thirds of the 1993 team used illegal substances, most notably Dykstra, Daulton, Kruk, Schilling and Williams.

I don´t think Billy Koch juiced. He had an 100 mph heater that always went arrow-straight. When he started to lose gradually 3-4 mph, which is normal in my opinion, he was a welcome victim.

I suspect Jay Gibbons and Miguel Tejada, also.

mwb

08-15-2007, 09:20 AM

PVNICK

08-15-2007, 09:25 AM

It's always funny to hear Kruk when the subject of the home run record comes up. He gives a line of patter you'd expect from Barry Bonds' defense attorney if there was a trial on the issue.

SamtheBravesFan

08-15-2007, 10:36 AM

I agree about the 1993 Phillies. They were doing something.

I think Billy Koch contracted some kind of odd disease that ended his career. I believe it was that disease where threads start coming out of the skin. I saw it on one of those primetime news shows.

Yep, that's it. And apparently, there are people who think they're nuts and people that believe them. What a terrible situation.

Barry(US)Bonds

08-15-2007, 10:41 AM

You've got to be kidding me.:laugh :laugh :laugh :laugh :laugh :laugh :laugh :laugh

Any proof, indication of increase in frame, or anything?

It's not like he went from 10 HR. to 40 HR.

If you look at any slight increase in HR. production, then just about every player must've taken steriods, for pete's sake.

Wade Boggs hit 24 one year, after years of hitting 7-12.

Is he on steriods?

Lou Gehrig went from 20 HR. to 47 HR the next.

Was he on steriods?

Foxx went from 13 HR. to 33 HR. the next year, and 58 the year after that.

Was he on steriods?

Williams went from 23 one year to 37 HR. the next.

Was he on steriods?

Derek Jeter hit 10 HR. one year, 19 + 24 HR. the next two years.

Was he on steriods?

Jeez.

Actually, as evidenced in Baseball Behind the numbers, there were more players making big jumps in homer totals (10+) who already started at 30+ homers/ season before the steroid era than during...During the steroid era more players hitting between 15 and 25 homers experienced jumps than at any other time

SBBL

08-15-2007, 11:14 AM

I think it would be easier to list the players over the last 20 years who haven't taken it.

Eliminating ' greenies', the figures for juiced players is probably close to 90%. Maybe 99% or 100%.

Is it really a mystery why nobody spoke up? There was NO ONE to speak up. There is so much money at stake, do you really think a player would let himself sink to the bottom of his profession when all around him guys are taking supplements and earning millions? I doupt it.

Remember in the 1980's (was it '87 ?) when HR numbers started going through the roof? Everybody was talking about juiced balls ! What fools we were !

The drugs are ahead of the testing - we'll never see the likes of a Mark Belanger type player again !

west coast orange and black

08-15-2007, 11:40 AM

dmag: You've got to be kidding me

you omitted "oldenglish said it best: it could be anyone."
but, for the record, i dug out gwynn's numbers as black humor.

are you willing to list players whom you feel have not used during the past 20 years, the steroid era? it would also be helpful, should you actually do so, to provide your reason(s).

SBBL

08-15-2007, 11:53 AM

are you willing to list players whom you feel have not used during the past 20 years, the steroid era? it would also be helpful, should you actually do so, to provide your reason(s).

Sure:

Doc Gooden

Reason: He didn't care enough about his career or his income to bother. Besides, he was too busy using recreational drugs.

If I can think of another I'll let you know. See - I told you this would be easy.

FatAngel

08-15-2007, 01:54 PM

We'll never see the likes of a Mark Belanger type player again !

I loved Snake. Unfortunately he was a chain smoker and paid the price.
But I think there are a few capable of having long careers as premium defenders - Tony Pena comes up to my mind, but it is certainly too early to judge him.
But aside from SS I do not see it happen, too.

DiMag4Life

08-15-2007, 06:18 PM

are you willing to list players whom you feel have not used during the past 20 years, the steroid era? it would also be helpful, should you actually do so, to provide your reason(s).

Well, you first prove to me the reason(s) you think Gwynn was taking steriods, then I would be glad to do so.

slugger33

08-15-2007, 07:04 PM

Jason Giambi (most obvious in MLB)
Albert Pujols
Adrian Beltre
David Ortiz
Barry Bonds

Skin & Bones

08-15-2007, 07:23 PM

Jason Giambi (most obvious in MLB)
Albert Pujols
Adrian Beltre
David Ortiz
Barry Bonds

I'll never understand the obsession with accusing Pujols of using steroids.

Imapotato

08-15-2007, 07:52 PM

Jay Bell (I think the most obvious that hasn't been mentioned yet)
Matt Williams
Todd Hundley
Jay Buhner

I'll second Hundley just out of spite, he is one small reason I never had a major league career :)

SBBL

08-15-2007, 07:57 PM

I'll second Hundley just out of spite, he is one small reason I never had a major league career :)

Well ...

Whats the story ?

Imapotato

08-15-2007, 08:13 PM

well he was a big time prospect when I got a tryout for the Mets, so therefore they modeled their ideals on having a power hitting C at the expense of defense

I was a defensive C who plunked singles...that is not what they wanted.

Even after Hundley flamed out, they went after Piazza...until Minaya thought better

There were other bigger factors but Hundley was part of the equation

brose3312

08-15-2007, 08:18 PM

I am curious as to why everyone wants to try and figure out who has and who has not taken illegal substances? You can debate all day and night about players from 5 or 10 years ago but the fact remains the same; There will never be hard core evidence that players were juiced. We can talk about head growth and power surges and whatever else but the bottom line is you can't prove something in the past.
Baseball needs to move past this. Set in place testing and move on. Every player that has added weight is all of a sudden under suspicion? That is ludicrous. Because Jeter, and I am in no way a Jeter apologist, has but on weight since his rookie days he is on steroids? Fans need to move on, you can't change the past.

fenrir

08-16-2007, 03:04 PM

Bonds, clemens, sosa, giambi, and sheffield are the most obvious cheats.

Badge714

08-16-2007, 10:35 PM

Jeter didn't go from 190 to 260 did he? And his head isn't the size of a medicine ball.

Badge714

08-16-2007, 10:36 PM

Brady Anderson?

SamtheBravesFan

08-16-2007, 10:46 PM

Brady Anderson?

Why does everyone think Brady Anderson took PEDs? It's entirely possible to have a year so much better of your norm that it's not funny. If Brady Anderson took PEDs, then Davey Johnson was on something in 1973 and Marcus Giles was on the juice in 2003 (Maybe Giles isn't a good example. My health teacher at Berry College said that Giles was taking steroids because he was convinced a guy that small couldn't hit the ball like that.).

west coast orange and black

08-16-2007, 11:21 PM

714: Jeter didn't go from 190 to 260 did he? And his head isn't the size of a medicine ball. His scrotum isn't the size of a thimble holding two raisins either. You're joking right. Bonds (Cheating, lying vermin) gained all that weight by doing a few extra reps in the gym! Are you insane?

190 to 260 (while in his 30s); size of a medicine ball; size of a thimble

i read where "a little hyperbole" would be sprinkled in. what happened?
and, why mention jeter?

Badge714

08-16-2007, 11:28 PM

I may be wrong about Anderson. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. That's why I used the question mark. You have to admit that a jump from a previous high of 21 to 50 is highly irregular. Nearly a fourth of his fifteen year career total in one season - 50 out of 210. I can understand Davy Johnson's increase because he was playing in Atlanta, the launching pad. He hit those 43 dingers in his first year in Atlanta. As I recall there was no appreciable increase in his body mass either. Anderson was pretty stout.

west coast orange and black

08-16-2007, 11:30 PM

wcoab: are you willing to list players whom you feel have not used during the past 20 years, the steroid era? it would also be helpful, should you actually do so, to provide your reason(s).

dimag: Well, you first prove to me the reason(s) you think Gwynn was taking steriods, then I would be glad to do so.

you must've missed my post (#120): "for the record, i dug out gwynn's numbers as black humor"

during the time of that post (june 2005) lotsa people were pointing to spiked numbers as definitive proof of steroid use. gwynn's numbers were used by me to illustrate yet another player with spiked numbers, but at the same time one who is generally not suspected of using.

now for your list of players from the past 20 years whom you believe have not used.

Mattingly

08-17-2007, 01:35 AM

Jeter didn't go from 190 to 260 did he? And his head isn't the size of a medicine ball. His scrotum isn't the size of a thimble holding two raisins either. You're joking right. Bonds (Cheating, lying vermin) gained all that weight by doing a few extra reps in the gym! Are you insane?
While I have my criticisms of Barry Bonds, including head size, I wouldn't say that it's about the size of a medicine ball. Is the Goodyear blimp next? I think that some sense of decorum can be used here.

I wouldn't say that I trust what Bonds has to say, but I wouldn't outright call him a liar.

As to the "below the belt stuff", I'd prefer that references to players' personal anatomy be left out of here.

Thx.

Skin & Bones

08-17-2007, 11:08 AM

Tom House.

Birds Fan

08-17-2007, 11:11 AM

Bonds(wouldent of got the record if he diddent juice)
Giambi
Sosaand cork
D-lee
Ortiz
Zambrano
Soriano
A-rod will never juice he is an old fasion no staroids guy.
Bonds on the othe hand is getting a neddele sticked up his but every day to get the sterouds in him.
Zambrano is on juice because he has just gotten HUGE!

I used to think A-Rod was an old-fashioned, don't-cheat-on-your-wife-with-a-stripper-in-Toronto guy too. Nobody is above question, especially if they have other questionable personality/behavioral issues.....like adultery.

Birds Fan

08-17-2007, 11:17 AM

Why does everyone think Brady Anderson took PEDs? It's entirely possible to have a year so much better of your norm that it's not funny. If Brady Anderson took PEDs, then Davey Johnson was on something in 1973 and Marcus Giles was on the juice in 2003 (Maybe Giles isn't a good example. My health teacher at Berry College said that Giles was taking steroids because he was convinced a guy that small couldn't hit the ball like that.).

Brady was totally ripped at his peak, an absolute specimen.

http://www.beckett.com/images/itemimages/hubata/hubata37454734.jpg

He said he used creatine and was a big lifter for years before his 50-HR season. He'll remain a question mark.

Other Orioles candidates: Roberts, Tejada and Gibbons were mentioned in the Grimsley affair. Tejada was also mentioned in Canseco's book. Jeff Conine was a muscle-bound guy. Segui admittedly used HGH.

digglahhh

08-17-2007, 11:20 AM

Why has this thread allowed to go on unlocked for two years - this is nothing but random defamatory speculation.

Or, did I miss the post where the poster guessed Juan Rincon, Matt Lawton, Alex Sanchez, Guilermo Mota, Neifi Perez...

Grow up, guys!

PVNICK

08-17-2007, 11:23 AM

I would bet good money Guillermo Mota and Juan Rincon used steroids.

Creatine is, if you believe M&F and the other mags, about as effective as steroids without any negatives.

Skin & Bones

08-17-2007, 11:25 AM

I would bet good money Guillermo Mota and Juan Rincon used steroids.

Creatine is, if you believe M&F and the other mags, about as effective as steroids without any negatives.

Creatine isn't as effective as steroids, but effective enough to be considered a "performance enhancing drug". Infact, I believe most steroid users use creatine in their cycle.

digglahhh

08-17-2007, 11:35 AM

I would bet good money Guillermo Mota and Juan Rincon used steroids.

Creatine is, if you believe M&F and the other mags, about as effective as steroids without any negatives.

I would believe that George Washington was the first President of the United States. Of course you would believe it... it freaking happened - they were suspended! As were the other players I mentioned. But nobody mentioned them in the history of this thread.

In the face of insurmountable evidence of failure, we proceed in all our naivete and hubirs to rely on the sight and stats tests.

SamtheBravesFan

08-17-2007, 02:31 PM

Brady was totally ripped at his peak, an absolute specimen.

http://www.beckett.com/images/itemimages/hubata/hubata37454734.jpg

He said he used creatine and was a big lifter for years before his 50-HR season. He'll remain a question mark.

Other Orioles candidates: Roberts, Tejada and Gibbons were mentioned in the Grimsley affair. Tejada was also mentioned in Canseco's book. Jeff Conine was a muscle-bound guy. Segui admittedly used HGH.

Didn't do him much good until that 50-homer season, and then he was back to normal afterwards. Sheesh. Maybe Davey Johnson really was on something. :P