Your Top 10 Players today. [Archive]

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Bill Burgess

09-30-2005, 01:47 PM

I'd like to see who the house members think are the top players today. Blend peak/longevity and do the most sensible composites you know how to. Consider all things; offense, defense, running, clubhouse morale, intangibles, whatever, etc.

Blackout

09-30-2005, 01:52 PM

1-Albert Pujols
2-Alex Rodriguez
3-Ichiro Suzuki
4-Barry Bonds*
5-Vladimir Guerrero
6-Manny Ramirez
7-David Ortiz
8-Mark Texiera
9-Todd Helton
10-Gary Sheffield*

Bill Burgess

09-30-2005, 01:53 PM

Wow! That was FAST. Some kind of record! Thanks. Good job.

Honus Wagner Rules

09-30-2005, 02:00 PM

1. Alex Rodriguez
2. Vlad Guererro
3. Albert Pujols
4. Miguel Cabrera
5. Manny Ramirez
6. Bobby Abreu
7. Mark Teixeira
8. Mguel Tejada
9. Jason Bay
10. Derrek Lee

538280

09-30-2005, 03:23 PM

1.Barry Bonds
2.Albert Pujols
3.Vladimir Guerrero
4.Alex Rodriguez
5.Gary Sheffield
6.Brian Giles
7.Derrek Lee
8.Manny Ramirez
9.Jason Bay
10.Morgan Ensberg

538280

09-30-2005, 03:24 PM

1. Alex Rodriguez
2. Vlad Guererro
3. Albert Pujols
4. Miguel Cabrera
5. Manny Ramirez
6. Bobby Abreu
7. Mark Teixeira
8. Mguel Tejada
9. Jason Bay
10. Derrek Lee

Whoa! No Barry Bonds? That is crazy. I thought you were a fellow Bonds supporter.

Honus Wagner Rules

09-30-2005, 03:48 PM

Whoa! No Barry Bonds? That is crazy. I thought you were a fellow Bonds supporter.

I'm a huge Bonds supporter but I I left him off my list for two reasons:

1) I interpreted the question to mean to who is the best now and going forward. I placed a heavy emphasis age on the next few seasons. I just don't know how much Bonds has left in the tank? He missed his age 41 season. Though he hit well, as I expected, he now has a bum knee. Bonds will be 42 next season .There is the chance that the Bonds of 2001-04 will never return. Asking him to produce at age 42 what he did in his mid to late 30s is asking a lot. Basically, I asked myself a question. "What player would I want TODAY?". Given Bond's age and health, would you take Bonds as he is TODAY? Over Pujols? Teixeira? Cabrera? I just don't know what Bonds has left as a player?

2) I placed a heavey emphasis on up and coming players. As awesome as Bonds has been, I have no doubt that players like Teixiera and Pujols will be better players than Bonds in 2006-08. I do have Clemens but he is still healthy and there has not been a drop in his performance due to age. Plus there is historical precedence for old pitchers to pitch well (Spahn, Niekro, Ryan, Cy Young, etc.)

So I hope those sound like good reasons. I am a HUGE Bonds supporter!!

538280

09-30-2005, 03:53 PM

I'm a huge Bonds supporter but I I left him off my list for two reasons:

1) I interpreted the question to mean to who is the best now and going forward. I placed a heavy emphasis age on the next few seasons. I just don't know how much Bonds has left in the tank? He missed his age 41 season. Though he hit well, as I expected, he now has a bum knee. Bonds will be 42 next season .There is the chance that the Bonds of 2001-04 will never return. Asking him to produce at age 42 what he did in his mid to late 30s is asking a lot. Basically, I asked myself a question. "What player would I want TODAY?". Given Bond's age and health, would you take Bonds as he is TODAY? Over Pujols? Teixeira? Cabrera? I just don't know what Bonds has left as a player?

2) I placed a heavey emphasis on up and coming players. As awesome as Bonds has been, I have no doubt that players like Teixiera and Pujols will be better players than Bonds in 2006-08. I do have Clemens but he is still healthy and there has not been a drop in his performance due to age. Plujs there is historical precednce for old pitchers to pitch well (Spahn, Niekro, Ryan, Cy Young, etc.)

So I hope those sound like good reasons. I am a HUGE Bonds supporter!!

Those are good reasons based on your criteria, but I don't think that's what Bill had in mind when he started this thread. I interpreted this as meaning, "Who's the best as of this moment?" Based on that criteria, Bonds is unquestionably the #1 player.

Bill, could you please clear up what exactly you meant here?

Bill Burgess

09-30-2005, 05:58 PM

Honus Wagner Rules

09-30-2005, 06:32 PM

I did intend to mean, who are your greatest 10 players today. How anyone can leave out Barry is beyond my wildest comprehension. He does have a bum knee, and is still the greatest force in the game. But that's just my perception.

And I do want to leave you guys open to exercise your own judgment. But now my mouth is hanging open in shock. Don't make me regret trusting you!

Bill

Bond was the greatest force in the game year in and year from 1990-2004. But, Bill, Bonds has just 42 ABs in 2005. How can we say for sure he is still the best if he's only had 42 ABs? He still may be. We just don't know. You know full well that even the greatest hitters lose it around 40-42 years of age. Right now, Bonds simply cannot run and he can barely play the field. His knee will need some serious healing over the offseason. However if he comes out like gang busters in 2006 then I will gladly put him on my list.

STLCards2

09-30-2005, 07:01 PM

1. Alex Rodriguez
2. Albert Pujols
3. Vlad Guerrero
4. Barry Bonds
5. Bobby Abreau
6. Miguel Cabrera
7. Manny Ramirez
8. Miguel Tejada
9. Mark Teixeira
10. David Ortiz

Bill Burgess

09-30-2005, 09:01 PM

My 10 Best Current All-Around Players:

1. Barry Bonds
2. Alexander Rodriguez
3. Ivan Rodriguez
4. Ichiro Suzuki
5. Ken Griffey, Jr.
6. Albert Pujols
7. Vladimir Guerrero
8. Carlos Beltran
9. Jim Edmonds
10. Manny Ramirez

Honorable Mentions:
Tori Hunter, Todd Helton, Larry Walker, Alfonso Soriano, Eric Chavez, Derek Jeter, Miguel Cabrera, Bobby Abreu, Mark Teixeira, Miguel Tejada, Jeff Bagwell, Craig Biggio, Carlos Delgado, Omar Vizquel.

Joltin' Joe

09-30-2005, 11:08 PM

1. Alex Rodriguez
2. Barry Bonds*
3. Albert Pujols
4. Ichiro Suzuki
5. Vladimir Guerrero
6. Ivan Rodriguez
7. Manny Ramirez
8. Miguel Tejada
9. David Ortiz
10. Bobby Abreu

Ubiquitous

10-01-2005, 06:35 AM

Albert Pujols
Lance Berkman
Alex Rodriguez
Vladimir Guerrero
Manny Ramirez
Carlos Delgado
Miguel Cabrera
Andruw Jones
Jim Edmonds
Barry Bonds

TonyK

10-01-2005, 07:02 AM

Four of you left off David Ortiz. Whose timely hits have won more games for his team this year than Big Papi? I don't buy the argument that he can't be considered for the MVP or a Top Ten list. When it counted during the 2004 WS his quick throw to 3B caught a key St. Louis baserunner. His intangibles, the fact he is the one guy I want up for me in the 9th inning of a tie game, plus his 147 RBI's should put him on the list over Manny and others.

leecemark

10-01-2005, 07:12 AM

--Wouldn't this thread be better suited for current events?

Ubiquitous

10-01-2005, 07:15 AM

TonyK

10-01-2005, 08:23 AM

Plenty = How Many?

How many game winners?

Sirmudgeon

10-01-2005, 10:48 AM

This is a great thread and in the appropriate place, as this is where history is made, with the affection or approbrium of your contemporaries. Opinions do matter in the greater scheme of things. OK, for the here and now and maybe next year, who would I want, right now, for my team next year?

1. Barely Coherent Bonds- the epitome of "jerked another out of the playing field", in every sense of the word.
2. A-Rod- day in, day out, the gold standard.
3. Pujols the Repeater- 590 AB, .330/40/120, five years and running. Plus, he's learning... kind of like those bloody velociraptors...
4. Vlad the Impaler- pedal to the metal, great nickname, fun to watch just walking around the ballpark.
5. Big Papi- Mr. Clutch, why does anyone pitch to this guy?
6. The Big Unit- still, in his 40s, the Scary Thing in the Closet.
7. Teixera of Texas- he can pound it, for the long haul.
8. Johan the Waltzing Santana- man can that guy pitch.
9. The D-Train- he throws, he hits, he wears his cap silly, he all fun.
10. Mike Sweeney- who else could do what he has, in KC, the never-ever land for baseball?

HM Clemens for the grit, Rivera for the incandescence, Manny Being Manny for the unpredictability, Jeter for being Mr. Baseball, Cabrera but lose the attitude, Rich Harden and Harder, Jeff Kent the Rent-a-Stud, Ichiro for Grace Under Pressure, Andruw for the spelling of his name and everything else he does with aplomb, HeltonBerkman (the same guy, I'm almost convinced), and The Full Miggy, 'cause you get all of him, every night.

Apologies if I missed some obviousities in this quickie, these are just guys I always follow in the boxes.

And no, no Sheffield. Remember Rain Man? Well, Sheffield is more like a jerk savant (yeah, so's Barry, but he's way better than Can't Field Sheffield).

Bill Burgess

10-01-2005, 11:01 AM

Perhaps I should have been more specific. I had intended to mean, Your Top 10 All-Around Position Players. No pitchers. I have another thread for them.

Sorry for my inprecision. My fault. Error on Burgess, again. For the 100th time.

Bill Burgess

charlesblalack@yahoo.com

10-01-2005, 11:03 AM

1. Barry Bonds
2. Alex Rodriguez
3. Albert Pujols
4. Vlad GUerrero
5. Manny Ramirez
6. Todd Helton
7. David Ortiz
8. Bobby Abreu
9. Gary Sheffield
10. Mark Texeira
JUST missed the top 10: Michael Young, Miguel Tejada, Derek Jeter, Carlos Beltran, Derrek Lee, Miguel Cabrerea, Jason Giambi, Brian Giles, Andruw Jones

Sirmudgeon

10-01-2005, 11:17 AM

See what I get for hurrying. Take out the pitchers, sub Tejada, Jeter, and HeltonBerkman. Still no Sheffield.

How 'bout a thread of "10 guys I'd most like to see on the other team, if my pitching staff was Don Newcombe, Gaylord Perry, Nolan Ryan, Randy Johnson, Sal Maglie, and three other He Hate Me pitchers of your choice". It begets the question, if you hit ten guys in a row, are the runs earned?

Ubiquitous

10-01-2005, 11:40 AM

Plenty = How Many?

How many game winners?

How many games have each of them had more RBI's then the opposition? Just scanning the games I see plenty.

Baseball Guru

10-01-2005, 12:23 PM

1. Barry Bonds
2. Albert Pujols
3. Alex Rodriguez
4. Vlad Guerrero
5. Manny Ramirez
6. David Ortiz
7. Miguel Cabrera
8. Bobby Abreu
9. Gary Sheffield
10. Andruw Jones

Bill Burgess

10-01-2005, 12:58 PM

--Wouldn't this thread be better suited for current events?

Mark,

Excuse me if I am remembering this wrong, but weren't you the person who told me, when I suggested certain discussions were better conducted in the stat dept., "to relax, take it easy, and go with the flow"? I kind of remember it may have been you, but I'm sorry if I'm mistaken.

But even if I am mistaken, "relax, take it easy, try going with the flow." You might even have some fun.

Bill

ThePeach

10-01-2005, 01:27 PM

Alex Rodriguez
Albert Pujols
Vladimir Guerrero
Derek Jeter
Miguel Tejada
Andrew Jones
Derrik Lee
David Ortiz
Ichiro
Gary Sheffield

TonyK

10-02-2005, 11:59 AM

How many games have each of them had more RBI's then the opposition? Just scanning the games I see plenty.

Sorry, but I'll take my man with his 88 HR's and 286 RBI's over the last two seasons plus his production in the playoffs over the guy with the .262 average, or the guy who didn't even lead his team to the playoffs. If Ortiz isn't worthy of making this top 10 list, then the ten guys better than him must have more than the 20+ game winners he has this year. You guys are overlooking someone who not only produces, but does it when the big game is on the line, and not just against the KC's or Tampa Bays like some of these guys. He will end up in the top three for AL MVP and could even win the award.

Ubiquitous

10-02-2005, 12:24 PM

So to win the game was he sitting on the bench and inserted as a pinch hitter? No he was in the lineup and lucky enough to come up to bat often enough with the game on the line. Like I said earlier you can win the game in the third inning just as easy as you can in the 9th.

Say Hey

10-02-2005, 06:31 PM

In no particular order.

1:Vlad Guerrero
2:A-Rod
3:Miguel Tejada
4: David Ortiz
5:Albert Pujols
6:Mike Tiexera
7:Gary Sheffield*
8: Dontrell Willis
9:Manny Ramirez
10:Johan Santana

538280

10-02-2005, 07:21 PM

In no particular order.

1:Vlad Guerrero
2:A-Rod
3:Miguel Tejada
4: David Ortiz
5:Albert Pujols
6:Mike Tiexera
7:Gary Sheffield*
8: Dontrell Willis
9:Manny Ramirez
10:Johan Santana

Not bad, but I think Bill wanted only position players on this thread, no pitchers.

Anyway, I think that is a decent list, I'd move Ortiz way down because he doesn't play the field. You also have Tejada higher than he deserves, because even for a SS his offense doesn't match up to other top echelon players. Jason Bay and Brian Giles should edge onto the list to make up for the pitchers and Ortiz.

Also, why do you have an asterisk next to Sheffield's name?

Blackout

10-02-2005, 07:41 PM

Bill Burgess

10-02-2005, 11:29 PM

Most of you may not have noticed it yet, but Webmaster Sean has installed a new format for us here. In the upper right hand corner, is a checkmark. That is our new spell checker. Finally at last. And do we all need it, too!

Bill

Chisox

10-03-2005, 02:11 PM

Say Hey

10-03-2005, 02:17 PM

ortiz over pujols?

explain yourself, this should be good

I wasn't putting them in order of how good I think they are, I just listed who I think are the top 10 best players today. I just had the numbers so I wouldn't have to go back and count. I agree that Pujols is better than Ortiz.

ArealBASEBALLfan

10-05-2005, 07:51 PM

1. Derrek Lee
2. Nomar Garciapara
3.

Sultan_1895-1948

10-05-2005, 10:12 PM

1. Derrek Lee
2. Nomar Garciapara
3.

Its like someone up and kidnapped you during your list production. You alright, should someone call the coppers? Or perhaps putting Nomar #2 shook you up a bit :D j/k

Chisox

10-06-2005, 07:26 AM

Its like someone up and kidnapped you during your list production. You alright, should someone call the coppers? Or perhaps putting Nomar #2 shook you up a bit :D j/k

With ya' 100%. This is amazing.

Ken Hastings

10-06-2005, 07:43 AM

Ichiro
ARod
Jeter
Ortiz
Pujols
Vlad
Tejada
Andruw
D. Lee
M. Cabrera

tommydale1

10-07-2005, 01:21 PM

1. Pujols
2. A-Rod
3. Miggy Tejada
4. Papi
5. Big Tex
6. Bobby Abreau
7. Manny
8. Vlad
9. Michael Young (VERY underrated)
10. Miguel Cabrera (Even though he reminds me of Joe Charboneau)

There are some obvious ones that I left out...let me explain.

Bonds- He's an a$$hole. He was an a$$hole in Pittsburgh and he's an a$$hole in SF. It's undeniable that his career stats are tremendous. When he actually is healthy, he is still a player that changes the whole game everytime he steps to the plate. The biggest problem I have is that he was hurt all year. If he makes the list, who's to say that Juan Gone and Scott Rolen shouldn't make the list. They were dominant before they were hurt too. Bottom Line, if you're hurt, you're no good to me as a player. Not to mention the fact that Bonds is a cancer in the clubhouse with his demands and egocentrism.

Helton- Would have been about #4 before this year...but what happened?? Barmes and Atkins can get on base, Holliday has come into his own, and Helton's skills run for cover? This should have been a 140-rbi season for the Helton of 2001-2004. I'm not writing him off or anything...he's still a great player, but his disappearance from the stat leaderboards makes me wonder if all is well in the thin air of Coors Field.

Sheffield- I'll be honest...he should be on the top 10, but you get my biases with my list. He's got an ego bigger than the Bronx Zoo. When he said that he was the leader of that Yankee team instead of Rivera, A-Rod, or Jeter...I thought two things:1. He's right...that guy can hit!!
2. You don't say that...if you are that good, which he is, you let people notice your achievements and give you praise.

Lee- I understand why everyone is so Derek Lee crazy...but let's not forget that this year, as great as it was, is Lee's 11th in the big leagues. He's had, including this year, 4 seasons of decent numbers in 11 years. That's not dominant, it's sketchy. Where have you been since the Padres took you in 1994? You weren't 18 b/c you went to college...so you shouldn't have had to mature. He had a great year, but I think it may be a career year, and a bright flash in the pan.

Bay, Utley, Sizemore, Ensberg, and Hafner- Would make this list if they show they can put up the consistant stats for a couple more years. I'm just hesitant about putting up a bunch of one-hit-wonders oin the list.

Soriano, Sexson, Andruw, Konerko, Carlos Lee, Troy Glaus, Adam Dunn- Love the power and RBI's, but hate your low average.

The Big C

10-08-2005, 10:49 PM

Derrek Lee may have been drafted in 1994, but he didn't play in the big leagues until 1997, making this his ninth year, not his eleventh, and only his seventh year playing over 100 games. Also, his 4 seasons of decent numbers (depends what you call decent, I count 5 before this year of 20+ homers .270+ BA, not top 10 stuff, but decent in my opinion), came this year and the three years preceeding this year. This is his third consecutive 30 homer year, and considering all of his other skills (almost 17 SBs a year since 2002 from a 1B, and Gold Glove calibur defense), he is definitely an elite player in my eyes (which admittedly do have a bit of blue tint to them).

RBi

10-09-2005, 12:31 AM

Sorry, but I'll take my man with his 88 HR's and 286 RBI's over the last two seasons plus his production in the playoffs over the guy with the .262 average, or the guy who didn't even lead his team to the playoffs. If Ortiz isn't worthy of making this top 10 list, then the ten guys better than him must have more than the 20+ game winners he has this year. You guys are overlooking someone who not only produces, but does it when the big game is on the line, and not just against the KC's or Tampa Bays like some of these guys. He will end up in the top three for AL MVP and could even win the award.

In my opinion "game winning hits" are WAY over-rated. The way I see it is like this:

If they would have done something during the 8 previous innings, there would be no need to come from behind and win the game. I know it is a generic way of looking at things, but it is hard to put someone on a "top 10 players today" list based on his 20+ game winners.

ESPECIALLY since he can not play defense well enough to earn a every day position on the field.

With that said, when there is a "top 10 players in the clutch" list... I would have him at #1..

..

#2..

and #3..

;)

Blackout

10-09-2005, 12:41 AM

In my opinion "game winning hits" are WAY over-rated. The way I see it is like this:

If they would have done something during the 8 previous innings, there would be no need to come from behind and win the game. I know it is a generic way of looking at things, but it is hard to put someone on a "top 10 players today" list based on his 20+ game winners.

ESPECIALLY since he can not play defense well enough to earn a every day position on the field.

With that said, when there is a "top 10 players in the clutch" list... I would have him at #1..

..

#2..

and #3..

;)

manny ramirez is more clutch than david ortiz

RBi

10-09-2005, 12:44 AM

manny ramirez is more clutch than david ortiz

Well, I think it is safe to say they would be 1-2 on current clutch hitters...

IMO anyways.

Blackout

10-09-2005, 01:14 AM

Well, I think it is safe to say they would be 1-2 on current clutch hitters...

IMO anyways.

what about Bonds?

BangorRedSoxfan

10-10-2005, 08:47 AM

1. Alex Rodriguez
2. Albert Pujols
3. Barry Bonds
4. Vladimir Guerrero
5. Manny Ramirez
6. Miguel Tejada
7. Chipper Jones
8. David Ortiz
9. Michael Young
10. Johnny Damon

holyroman

10-11-2005, 07:41 AM

how about lance berkman, i mean a couple people have johny damon!

Sockeye

07-27-2006, 02:34 PM

1. Albert Pujols
2. Alex Rodriguez
3. Miguel Cabrera
4. David Wright
5. Alfonso Soriano
6. Mark Teixeira
7. Miguel Tejada
8. Lance Berkman
9. Andruw Jones
10. Carlos Beltran

Mariano_Rivera

07-27-2006, 03:03 PM

Top 3 in order

A-Rod

Pujols

Ichiro

deaconspoint

07-27-2006, 03:10 PM

Michael Young
Lance Berkman
Big papi
Joe Mauer
Pudge
Albert Pujols
Vlad
ARod
Miguel Cabrera
Manny

No particular order. I include Pudge because I don't think he gets enough respect. Wins everywhere he goes. There has to be something to this based in what he brings to a team.

hogwashed

07-27-2006, 03:15 PM

Pujols
cabrera
berkman
arod
vlad

Skin & Bones

07-27-2006, 03:20 PM

1.) Pujols ( He's the King)
2.) Beltran
3.) Mauer
4.) Berkman
5.) Wright

Jose Reyes

07-27-2006, 03:56 PM

These aren't in any particular order

A-Rod
Jeter
Wright
Pujols
Beltran
Guerrero
Soriano
Berkman
Ortiz
Howard

tigers527

07-27-2006, 07:26 PM

1 Todd Jones
2 Todd Jones
3 Todd Jones
4 Todd Jones
5 Albert Pujols
6 Todd Jones
7 Todd Jones
8 Vladimir Guerrero
9 Todd Jones
10 Curtis Granderson

You try saving 27 games out of a total 101 games played with a 5 ERA. and try to tell me the man doesn't have some kind of voodoo on him?

W_Marone

07-27-2006, 08:31 PM

Pujols
A-Rod
David Ortiz
Ichiro
Manny
Howard
Soriano
Berkman
Giambi
Vlad

ab11viva

07-28-2006, 09:12 AM

yankillaz

07-28-2006, 03:22 PM

Easy:

1. A-Job
2. Pedro
3. Pujols
4. Clemens
5. Manny
6. Johnson
7. Ichiro
8. Helton
9. Rivera
10. Maddux

Da Penguin

07-28-2006, 03:28 PM

in order

1.Albert Pujols
2.Vlad
3.A-rod
4.Big Papi
5.Halladay
6.Michael Young
7.Tex
8.Santana
9.Tejada
10.Pedro

baseball junkie

07-28-2006, 03:33 PM

Since the question asks for the top 10 players today, I decided I'd break it down along the lines of position.

CA Joe Mauer
1B Albert Pujols
2B Chase Utley
3B David Wright
SS Miguel Tejada
LF Alfonso Soriano
CF Carlos Beltran
RF Manny Ramirez
SP Francisco Liriano
CL Jonathan Papelbon

I refuse to acknowledge the DH as a position and not just a spot in the batting order.