Sox Retired Numbers?

[DoubleX]

The Sox have retired the numbers of Bobby Doerr, Joe Cronin, Carl Yastrzemski, Ted Williams, and Carlton Fisk. This is a pretty good group, but do you think the Sox should pay any other former players this honor?

Some names that came to mind (not that they all should be retired, just some players I might consider if I were to open the gates a little more):

Wade Boggs (Is his number being retired?)
Jim Rice
Dwight Evans
Fred Lynn
Luis Tiant
Johnny Pesky
Dom DiMaggio
Mo Vaughn
Jimmie Foxx
Lefty Grove

And maybe a note about guys like Cy Young, Tris Speaker, Jimmy Collins, and even Babe Ruth (since they didn't have numbers)

[Biggerin]

There used to be some strict guidelines for retiring numbers in Boston (Hall of Fame, must retire in Red Sox uniform, probably # of years)

They threw 'em out the window to retire Fisk's of course, so anything can happen.

Last year, there were rumors of retiring Tony Conligliaro's number soon, and if that's done, a few more Red Sox legends may be following suit.

'Course, what do I know? I think my first post here was had something to do with retiring number 5 someday.

[DoubleX]

Tony Conligliaro (along with Rico Petrocelli) actually sprang to mind. From living in Boston, I know both have a special place in the heart of Red Sox Nation (well for the part of Red Sox Nation that didn't jump on the bandwagon in the past four or five years - there is a lot of that...Same can be said about Yankee fans jumping on the bandwagon in the late 90s).

Anywho, decided not to include them because I figured there were some better and more tenured candidates. Jim Rice and Dwight Evans were really the first non-Wade Boggs players to come to mind as most deserving of the honor. Both had fairly long and very productive careers with the Red Sox, and with the exception of Evans' last year in Baltimore, both spent their entire careers with the team.

[YOUgodofwalks]

And maybe a note about guys like Cy Young, Tris Speaker, Jimmy Collins, and even Babe Ruth (since they didn't have numbers)

All of those I agree with except Cy Young. Didn't thave the numbers? Tied for most wins in a Red Sox/American's uniform with 192? I know this is only a small bit of his 511 career wins, but as far as the Red Sox are concerned he is their all time leader in wins. I not saying his number should be retired, it's just hard to brush him off as not having the numbers.

[runningshoes]

All of those I agree with except Cy Young. Didn't thave the numbers? Tied for most wins in a Red Sox/American's uniform with 192? I know this is only a small bit of his 511 career wins, but as far as the Red Sox are concerned he is their all time leader in wins. I not saying his number should be retired, it's just hard to brush him off as not having the numbers.

I think he means they didn't wear numbers on thier jerseys. :)

[DoubleX]

I think he means they didn't wear numbers on thier jerseys. :)

Yup I was. :)

[Swiss]

Wade Boggs (Is his number being retired?)
Jim Rice
Dwight Evans
Fred Lynn
Luis Tiant
Johnny Pesky
Dom DiMaggio
Mo Vaughn
Jimmie Foxx
Lefty Grove

For my Red Sox heart, the franchise should retire the numbers of Rice, Evans and Dom DiMaggio.
Mo Vaughn although a fan favorite, didn't remained lots of years in our club. Same thing with Jimmy Foxx.
Lefty Grove is more identified with the A's. The Oakland A's should retire all the Philadelphia A's famous numbers (like Simmons, Grove, Foxx, Cochrane...)

And maybe a note about guys like Cy Young, Tris Speaker, Jimmy Collins, and even Babe Ruth (since they didn't have numbers)

One thing always I liked from my NL favorite club, the SF Giants is that they retired the non-numbered idols like McGraw and Mathewson.
They played for the Giants when they were unnumbered in NYC.
The Giants people simply put an interlocked Mets-styled "NY" with their last names.

We should put Young, Speaker, Collins, Joe Wood, Ruth, etc with the Red Stockings' logo.

[YOUgodofwalks]

My mistake, lol i apologize. You're right in tht fact of course. I'll have to read more carfully in the future.

[Steve Jeltz]

Roger Clemens when he finally retires. Had hist best season in a Red Sox uniform. Let bygones be bygones.

[BoSox Rule]

Nomar, Pedro, and Clemens should be retired.

[runningshoes]

Nomar, Pedro, and Clemens should be retired.


Nomar and Pedro didn't play in Boston long enough to have thier numbers retired.

I would like to see Jim Rice's number retired.

[DoubleX]

I get the feeling that Boston fans would readily retire Curt Schilling's number at this point.

[pesky6]

I think that the fewer numbers the Red Sox retire, the better. We don't want Fenway to become a littered boneyard like a certain other stadium, do we?

[Swiss]

Mmmhhh... about Clemens... I agree to retire his number in Fenway Park.
If they retired the Boggs' number, why not the Clemens' number? Once Clemens used to be the face of the franchise.

[DoubleX]

I think that the fewer numbers the Red Sox retire, the better. We don't want Fenway to become a littered boneyard like a certain other stadium, do we?

I agree, the Yankees (assuming that is who you are talking about) have gone a bit overboard with the numbers retiring. However, I don't see anything wrong with honoring tradition. I think there are too many teams that don't properly honor their past. The Athletics are a great example. It's as if the team totally disavows some of its great history in Philalephia. Is there any mention in Oakland of Connie Mack, Jimmie Foxx, Lefty Grove, Al Simmons, Mickey Cochrane, Eddie Collins, Frank Baker, Eddie Plank, Rube Waddell, and Chief Bender? I don't believe so. Heck, it wasn't even until a year or two ago that the team finally acknowledged Reggie Jackson.

That being said, I think the Red Sox have done a pretty good job honoring their heroes. Jim Rice probably deserves the honor too, but I think the case for anyone else (such as Dwight Evans and Dom DiMaggio) is not as strong as Rice's.

[efin98]

There was a rumor a few years ago that Dom DiMagio may be the next guy to get his number retired, provided Trot Nixon change numbers. That turned out to be bogus.
There's a push by a local radio host to retire Pesky's number despite not being eligible due to not being in the Hall of Fame. He should be a shoo-in for number retirement in his last years of his life unfortunately...

Boggs' honoring is the olive branch that sets in motion his number retirement, just as Fisk did back when his number was retired. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets a job working for the Red Sox to qualify for number retirement...

Clemens' number is a tough area, since he may not come back to the system in the same way that Fisk did and Boggs may do. If he doesn't, 21 will remain unused in honor of him but won't be retired.

Rice's number is still "occupied" in that he works for the team, thus no one can use the number. Same for Peskey. Evans' number was unused until a certain hard hitting LF came to Fenway in 2000, but that could become available in the offseason...

[DoubleX]

There was a rumor a few years ago that Dom DiMagio may be the next guy to get his number retired, provided Trot Nixon change numbers. That turned out to be bogus.
There's a push by a local radio host to retire Pesky's number despite not being eligible due to not being in the Hall of Fame. He should be a shoo-in for number retirement in his last years of his life unfortunately...

Dom isn't in the Hall either. Rice has the best chance to be the next Red Sock in. I'd say he has a decent shot to get in this year, but probably not. Evans deserved a lot more respect from the voters than he received. Is he a Hall of Famer? No. But he is certainly among that group right on the outside.

[pesky6]

I agree, the Yankees (assuming that is who you are talking about) have gone a bit overboard with the numbers retiring. However, I don't see anything wrong with honoring tradition. I think there are too many teams that don't properly honor their past. The Athletics are a great example. It's as if the team totally disavows some of its great history in Philalephia. Is there any mention in Oakland of Connie Mack, Jimmie Foxx, Lefty Grove, Al Simmons, Mickey Cochrane, Eddie Collins, Frank Baker, Eddie Plank, Rube Waddell, and Chief Bender? I don't believe so. Heck, it wasn't even until a year or two ago that the team finally acknowledged Reggie Jackson.

That being said, I think the Red Sox have done a pretty good job honoring their heroes. Jim Rice probably deserves the honor too, but I think the case for anyone else (such as Dwight Evans and Dom DiMaggio) is not as strong as Rice's.

I think part of the problem with the A's is that because they've been in three cities, it's hard for the fanbase (and maybe the execs?) to embrace players who, in fact, played in another city. Not saying it's right, just a theory.

As far as the Yanks, what I was trying to say that it just seems weird that they have retired numbers of Elston Howard with the likes of Ruth, Mantle, etc.

[DoubleX]

I think part of the problem with the A's is that because they've been in three cities, it's hard for the fanbase (and maybe the execs?) to embrace players who, in fact, played in another city. Not saying it's right, just a theory.

As far as the Yanks, what I was trying to say that it just seems weird that they have retired numbers of Elston Howard with the likes of Ruth, Mantle, etc.

I totally agree with your point about retiring the Yankees numbers. There are certainly a number of Yankees that are deserving of the honor - Ruth, Gehrig, DiMaggio, Mantle, Berra, Dickey, Ford, Stengal, even Mattingly (Joe McCarthy should probably have his number retired too), and there are a bunch of also-rans - Martin, Maris, Rizzuto, Howard, Guidry, and Jackson (I really, really don't think of Reggie as a Yankee). Munson is on the fence. Great player and heart of the team (really the Jason Varitek of the 1970s Yankees), likely not a Hall of Famer though. But if you open the door to all these guys, why stop there? There are tons of Yankees that are at least on the level of these other players. I think it's pretty ridiculous.

[yazfan88]

Jim Rice, Dwight Evans & Dom DiMaggio. These guys played all their careers (or most all in Dewey's case) in a Sox uniform. They each gave all they had to make their teams a contender. These guys should have had their numbers retired before Pudge. I believe he's up there mostly due to the '75 WS homer. Dom D. would have gunned down Slaughter in '46. The outcome of the '75 series would have been different had Rice not had the broken bone and was able to play. There is no one else who put up the numbers during their Red Sox career to warrant being honored...Not Foxx, Tony C., Lonborg, Lefty Grove, Mo, Greenwell or Freddie Lynn.

[DODGER DEB]

Jim Rice, Dwight Evans & Dom DiMaggio. These guys played all their careers (or most all in Dewey's case) in a Sox uniform. They each gave all they had to make their teams a contender. These guys should have had their numbers retired before Pudge. I believe he's up there mostly due to the '75 WS homer. Dom D. would have gunned down Slaughter in '46. The outcome of the '75 series would have been different had Rice not had the broken bone and was able to play. There is no one else who put up the numbers during their Red Sox career to warrant being honored...Not Foxx, Tony C., Lonborg, Lefty Grove, Mo, Greenwell or Freddie Lynn.


I could not agree with you more, yazfan88, about Dewey, Rice and DD. But, most ML teams have this thing about retiring #'s....they insist that the player have been voted into the HOF first, then they will retire his number.

Since we all know what has happened in recent years to the voting for the HOF, the ML teams should change their policy regarding this, and retire numbers of those players who did so much for their respective teams in the years that they played for them. THAT would be a much better policy, IMO.

c.

[The Kid]

Sure, and why don't we not retire numbers at all!

[The Kid]

Foxx, Tony C., Lonborg, Lefty Grove, Mo, Greenwell, Freddie Lynn, Clemens, and Boggs should have their #s retired. and then retire Cy Young as 0, and
Tris Speaker as 12

[EvanAparra]

I like the numbers they have retired now, and out of all the numbers above, i would only approve of Grove. Dont get me wrong, these were all great players, but i dont want it to become like the Yankees where in 20 years they arent going to have any numbers left to give out.

[soberdennis]

All of those I agree with except Cy Young. Didn't thave the numbers? Tied for most wins in a Red Sox/American's uniform with 192? I know this is only a small bit of his 511 career wins, but as far as the Red Sox are concerned he is their all time leader in wins. I not saying his number should be retired, it's just hard to brush him off as not having the numbers.
I think hemeant that they did not wear numbers.
I could see Boggs, Rice, Martinez, and Clemens, possibly Grove and Foxx.
But I agree there should be some limit. Within 15 years the Yanks won't have a single digit number available because they will retire Jeter and Torre's numbers. That is a bit ridiculous.

[soberdennis]

I agree, the Yankees (assuming that is who you are talking about) have gone a bit overboard with the numbers retiring. However, I don't see anything wrong with honoring tradition. I think there are too many teams that don't properly honor their past. The Athletics are a great example. It's as if the team totally disavows some of its great history in Philalephia. Is there any mention in Oakland of Connie Mack, Jimmie Foxx, Lefty Grove, Al Simmons, Mickey Cochrane, Eddie Collins, Frank Baker, Eddie Plank, Rube Waddell, and Chief Bender? I don't believe so. Heck, it wasn't even until a year or two ago that the team finally acknowledged Reggie Jackson.

That being said, I think the Red Sox have done a pretty good job honoring their heroes. Jim Rice probably deserves the honor too, but I think the case for anyone else (such as Dwight Evans and Dom DiMaggio) is not as strong as Rice's.
I find it ironic that the Dodgers never retired Garvey's #6, while the Padres did long ago. The Brewers retired Aaron's number, but so did the Braves.

[maximum jack]

Since we all know what has happened in recent years to the voting for the HOF

I don't quite follow. What do you mean?

[SoxSon]

I think hemeant that they did not wear numbers.
I could see Boggs, Rice, Martinez, and Clemens, possibly Grove and Foxx.
But I agree there should be some limit. Within 15 years the Yanks won't have a single digit number available because they will retire Jeter and Torre's numbers. That is a bit ridiculous.

You do know you're responding to a post that's about a year old, soberdennis? :)

[SoxSon]

I don't quite follow. What do you mean?


And so are you, mj! :laugh

[maximum jack]

And so are you, mj! :laugh

Ooops. Well, what the heck did Dodger Deb mean last year? I wasn't frequenting Baseball Fever back then.

Back to the original one year old thread: Jim Rice deserves to be in the HoF, and his number should be retired. Dewey perhaps did not have a HoF caliber career, but it was a solid 19 years with Boston and he is definately worthy of consideration-- perhaps the best right field arm Boston has ever had? And isn't he second to Yaz in the number of games played by a Red Sock? Other than these two, I think there isn't anyone else deserving of the honor. DD, RP and TC all had good careers in Beantown, but I think to have your number retired you need to be a little more exceptional. Lefty Grove had his best years in Philadelphia. Jimmie Foxx had 6 awesome years in Boston, but I don't know if that is enought to merit the distinction of having his number retired. Cy Young also had great years in Boston, but do people (outside of New England) think of him as a Red Sock?

[DoubleX]

Ooops. Well, what the heck did Dodger Deb mean last year? I wasn't frequenting Baseball Fever back then.

Back to the original one year old thread: Jim Rice deserves to be in the HoF, and his number should be retired. Dewey perhaps did not have a HoF caliber career, but it was a solid 19 years with Boston and he is definately worthy of consideration-- perhaps the best right field arm Boston has ever had? And isn't he second to Yaz in the number of games played by a Red Sock? Other than these two, I think there isn't anyone else deserving of the honor. DD, RP and TC all had good careers in Beantown, but I think to have your number retired you need to be a little more exceptional. Lefty Grove had his best years in Philadelphia. Jimmie Foxx had 6 awesome years in Boston, but I don't know if that is enought to merit the distinction of having his number retired. Cy Young also had great years in Boston, but do people (outside of New England) think of him as a Red Sock?

I was about to post the same thing. It seems like Sox fans regard Foxx and Grove as being first and foremost Red Sox. They both had good years for the Sox, but the bulk of their best years came with the Athletics, they spent more time with the Athletics, and helped the Athletics to three straight pennants including back-to-back World Series titles.

I do, however, disagree with you about Rice's Hall of Fame credentials. It wouldn't be egregious if he did get in as he is near the borderline, but if I had a vote, I would not put him in. His numbers are not as good as they look on the surface, mostly because he took full advantage of being a right handed hitter at Fenway. The Green Monster made him look like a much better hitter than he was. He also had a terrible penchant for grounding into double plays and killing rallies. He might have been worst ever, given a big enough sample size, when it comes to grounding into double plays. Then there is also the fact that he was a completely a one dimensional player. His defense and baserunning was average at best, and for most of his career, was probably below average. When it comes to all-time LFers, I have Rice in the 20-25 range, and that puts him close to Hall of Fame territory, but distinctly on the outside. Just on the Red Sox all time, he's no better than 4th in LF (behind Williams, Yastrzemski, and Ramirez). I'm also not fully convinced that he is more Hall of Fame deserving than Dwight Evans - a truly underrated player who was a much better all around player than Rice.

[soberdennis]

You do know you're responding to a post that's about a year old, soberdennis? :)
I did not restart this thread today. I would never have touched the thread if someone else had not posted in it today.

[SoxSon]

I did not restart this thread today. I would never have touched the thread if someone else had not posted in it today.

I wasn't criticizing or anything...just wanted to make sure you knew that the post you were quoting was rather old. I didn't want you waiting on a timely response from the author. :)

[The Kid]

All right, then let's take out Tony C., Lonborg, Greenwell. But ya have to retire Foxx's, Grove's, Clemens, and Boggs number. And, like I said, retire Young as 0 and Speaker as 12, for his 1912 season.

[DoubleX]

All right, then let's take out Tony C., Lonborg, Greenwell. But ya have to retire Foxx's, Grove's, Clemens, and Boggs number. And, like I said, retire Young as 0 and Speaker as 12, for his 1912 season.

Why Foxx and Grove? Can someone explain to me why Red Sox fans associate Foxx and Grove with the Sox? The bulk of their careers, and the bulk of their best years, were with the Athletics, where they helped lead the team to two World Series and three straight pennants.

[EvanAparra]

Why Foxx and Grove? Can someone explain to me why Red Sox fans associate Foxx and Grove with the Sox? The bulk of their careers, and the bulk of their best years, were with the Athletics, where they helped lead the team to two World Series and three straight pennants.

Grove played 9 with Philly and 8 with Bos. 5-time all star with Bos. 4 time ERA champ. He had great seasons with Philly too, but we cant NOT also remember him as a sox because he played 1 more season with Philly.

Foxx broke the sox HR record, so that might have something to do with it.

[DoubleX]

Grove played 9 with Philly and 8 with Bos. 5-time all star with Bos. 4 time ERA champ. He had great seasons with Philly too, but we cant NOT also remember him as a sox because he played 1 more season with Philly.

Foxx broke the sox HR record, so that might have something to do with it.

Grove

- 195 of his 300 victories with the A's
- Won 20 or more games 7 straight years with the A's, topping at 31, compared to just one 20 win season in Boston.
- 1523 of his 2266 strikeouts with the A's.
- 402 of his 616 games were with the A's.
- 2401 of his 3941 IP were with the A's.
- 5 ERA titles with the A's, in full seasons; his last two ERA titles with the Red Sox came while pitching under 200 innings.
- MVP with the A's
- 2 Pitching Triple Crowns with the A's
- 7 Strikeout Titles with the A's (none with the Sox)
- 2 World Series Titles and 3 Pennants with the A's; 0 Pennants with the Red Sox

Basically, yeah he had some good seasons with the Red Sox, and technically he did play just one less season with the Red Sox, but for most of his time with the Red Sox he was injured and used infrequently. Hardly his peak period other than a couple of years. When people think of Lefty Grove, the dominant pitcher, they think of what he did with the Athletics.

Foxx
- 303/534 Homeruns with the Athletics; 222/534 Homeruns with Red Sox
- 4397/8134 ABs with the A's; 3288/8134 with Red Sox
- 1492/2646 Hits with the A's; 1051/2646 with the Red Sox
- 1075/1922 RBI with the A's; 788/1922 with the Red Sox
- 2 MVPs with the A's; 1 with the Red Sox
- Triple Crown with the A's
- 3 HR Titles with the A's; 1 with the Red Sox
- 2 World Series Titles and 3 Pennants with the A's; 0 with the Red Sox

I'll say that Foxx is much more reasonable than Grove, as Foxx did have a number of real dominant seasons with the Sox, including an MVP campaign. But when most people think of Foxx at his best, they think about what he did on the A's.

[EvanAparra]

[QUOTE=DoubleX]Grove

- 5 ERA titles with the A's, in full seasons; his last two ERA titles with the Red Sox came while pitching under 200 innings.
[QUOTE]

Pedro Martinez only had 4 seasons with over 200 Inn with the Sox, doesnt mean the rest of the stellar season he had in Boston mean any less, and if he pitches for another 3 years in NY over 200 Inn, it wont make me remember him any differently..

I dont know if you are saying that these guys shouldnt be remembered as RedSox or if you are saying they should ONLY be remembered as As.... But i think they both had great years in both cities, and should be though of that way.

[DoubleX]

[QUOTE=DoubleX]Grove

- 5 ERA titles with the A's, in full seasons; his last two ERA titles with the Red Sox came while pitching under 200 innings.
[QUOTE]

Pedro Martinez only had 4 seasons with over 200 Inn with the Sox, doesnt mean the rest of the stellar season he had in Boston mean any less, and if he pitches for another 3 years in NY over 200 Inn, it wont make me remember him any differently..

I dont know if you are saying that these guys shouldnt be remembered as RedSox or if you are saying they should ONLY be remembered as As.... But i think they both had great years in both cities, and should be though of that way.

I'm saying that when I think of Grove and Foxx, I think of them as Oakland Athletics much more than I think of them as Red Sox, and as such, don't believe retiring their numbers as Red Sox would be appropriate. Maybe I can concede Foxx, but definitely not Grove. Back when Grove was pitching, pitchers would regularly pitch 250-300 innings a year, so pitching under 200 back then was a sign of an off and/or injury plagued year. It's also a sign of dominance. With the Red Sox, Grove was a 190 inning pitcher. With the Athletics, Grove was 280 inning pitcher. That's a huge difference and reflects how much more dominant and valuable Grove was while with the Athletics than with the Red Sox.

Now that sad thing with both players is that the A's haven't done anything to acknowledge them (or others like Simmons, Cochrane, Collins, Baker, Plank, Waddell). The Dodgers and Giants honor the greats that played for them in New York, but the A's have left their greats without a team.

[EvanAparra]

[QUOTE=EvanAparra][QUOTE=DoubleX]Grove

- 5 ERA titles with the A's, in full seasons; his last two ERA titles with the Red Sox came while pitching under 200 innings.


I'm saying that when I think of Grove and Foxx, I think of them as Oakland Athletics much more than I think of them as Red Sox, and as such, don't believe retiring their numbers as Red Sox would be appropriate. Maybe I can concede Foxx, but definitely not Grove. Back when Grove was pitching, pitchers would regularly pitch 250-300 innings a year, so pitching under 200 back then was a sign of an off and/or injury plagued year. It's also a sign of dominance. With the Red Sox, Grove was a 190 inning pitcher. With the Athletics, Grove was 280 inning pitcher. That's a huge difference and reflects how much more dominant and valuable Grove was while with the Athletics than with the Red Sox.

Now that sad thing with both players is that the A's haven't done anything to acknowledge them (or others like Simmons, Cochrane, Collins, Baker, Plank, Waddell). The Dodgers and Giants honor the greats that played for them in New York, but the A's have left their greats without a team.

I wouldnt retire their numbers either, just so were on the same page.

[SDL]

To hell with Cooperstown. #14 SHOULD be retired for Jim Ed.

Retire #7 for Dom with the provision that Nixon can keep it...kind of like when MLB retired #42 with the provision that active players wearing it could keep it (Mo Vaughn). Of course, Nixon could always show some class and pull a Ray Bourque (Bruins fans know what I mean).

Retire #6 for Pesky AND Petrocelli. Have a special day to honor both guys. Hey, if the Celtics could retire #18 for both Loscutoff and Cowens...

Tony C's #25. I have been screaming this for years...more out of respect than anything else. Assuming he never got beaned, imagine his overall numbers. I know a lot of other people that agree with me.

#43 for Eckersley. If they could bend the rules like they did when they retired #27 for Fisk, they could do the same for The Eck. Isn't NESN partially owned by the Sox?

#23 for El Tiante. I know it won't happen, but I can dream, can't I?

[PhilWings24]

Nomar, Pedro, and Clemens should be retired.

Maybe Pedro and Clemens, but nomar just plain wasn't good enough to receive the honor, and didn't spend enough time with the team (pedro's ridiculous effectiveness makes his short tenure less of an issue with me)

[EvanAparra]

Maybe Pedro and Clemens, but nomar just plain wasn't good enough to receive the honor, and didn't spend enough time with the team (pedro's ridiculous effectiveness makes his short tenure less of an issue with me)

He might not have spent enough time, but wasnt good enough?? He was plenty good when he was here.

[SDL]

He might not have spent enough time, but wasnt good enough?? He was plenty good when he was here.

I'd retire #5 before 21 and 45....unlike Nomar, they didn't want to leave....

[EvanAparra]

Pedro didnt want to leave? Then he should have taken the deal that was offered to him.

[SDL]

Pedro didnt want to leave? Then he should have taken the deal that was offered to him.

My error (try to concentrate when you have two cats loudly fighting in the next room).

What I MEANT to say was that Nomar wanted to stay, unlike Pedro, Clemens and Boggs.

[EvanAparra]

Ah, i see. I think Clemens wanted to stay more than Nomar.(Although im not completely familiar with Clemens case) Nomar always said he wanted to stay in public, but his agent approached Theo a couple times, saying that Nomar wanted a trade.

Nomar denies that he had anything to do with it, however. I know Nomar wasnt happy in Boston, but whether he actually asked to leave is another question.

[DoubleX]

My error (try to concentrate when you have two cats loudly fighting in the next room).

What I MEANT to say was that Nomar wanted to stay, unlike Pedro, Clemens and Boggs.

The Sox kicked Clemens and Boggs to the curb and made half-hearted efforts at bringing them back. Who can forget Dan Duquette in the offseason after Clemens' last year with the Sox announcing that Clemens' is in his twilight. I think the Red Sox treatment of Clemens at the end of his tenure with the team is what fueled him to be so dominant during the next 10 years. I don't see Clemens being as good as he's been without the Sox disrespecting him like they did.

Same thing happend with Boggs. Boggs' BA took a nosedive in 1992, all the way down to .259, and the Sox thought he was done. I suppose I can understand that - if Boggs isn't hitting over .300, he's doesn't really offer much. Plus the Sox thought they had a bonafide replacement in the form of the great Scott Cooper (who actually, and quite inexplicably, was an All Star in '93 and '94). Boggs' departure really came down to the fact that the Sox picked the young Cooper, who's star appearead to be on the rise, over the aging Boggs, whose star appeared to de diminishing.

Pedro was along these lines too - the Sox didn't make a huge effort to keep him. Much like the team did with Boggs and Clemens, they projected into the future and with Pedro saw a brittle pitcher whose best days are behind him and who would be injured more often than not in the years to come, especially since Pedro was looking for a 4 year deal, which seemed like a pretty gamble at the time. This was a pretty reasonable prognosis, but the guy can still bring it when he pitches; though 4 years did seem excessive at the time given the circumstances. So I'd chalk this one up to a combination between the Sox efforts and Pedro's demands; but with Clemens and Boggs, the team really missed the boat and held the door open for two greats.

Mo Vaughn and Johnny Damon were allowed to leave in similar situations - the Sox assessed the projected contributions of the players and determined that it wasn't worth the cost. Vaughn was understandable given his build (guys like that don't age well) and his huge contract demands (as evidenced by the ridiculous contract he received from Anaheim). Damon was a bit more inexplicable, though understandable and I was pretty sure at the time that the Yanks overpaid for Damon and that Damon was on the decline.

Bottom line, the Sox over the past 15 years or so have a history of cutting ties to their stars (this trend could probably even be traced back further to the departures of Fred Lynn and Carlton Fisk). It takes guts to do things like this, especially with guys on the talent level of Boggs, Clemens, and Martinez, or on the fan love level of Damon; but the lack of loyalty by the front office has to be distressing and understandably is a risking proposition that can blow up in their faces (for example, you don't hear much about how the Sox were right about Vaughn, but you do hear quite a bit about Boggs, Clemens, and now Martinez and Damon).

[SDL]

The Sox kicked Clemens and Boggs to the curb and made half-hearted efforts at bringing them back. Who can forget Dan Duquette in the offseason after Clemens' last year with the Sox announcing that Clemens' is in his twilight. I think the Red Sox treatment of Clemens at the end of his tenure with the team is what fueled him to be so dominant during the next 10 years. I don't see Clemens being as good as he's been without the Sox disrespecting him like they did.

Same thing happend with Boggs. Boggs' BA took a nosedive in 1992, all the way down to .259, and the Sox thought he was done. I suppose I can understand that - if Boggs isn't hitting over .300, he's doesn't really offer much. Plus the Sox thought they had a bonafide replacement in the form of the great Scott Cooper (who actually, and quite inexplicably, was an All Star in '93 and '94). Boggs' departure really came down to the fact that the Sox picked Cooper over Boggs.

Pedro was along these lines too - the Sox didn't make a huge effort to keep him. Much like the team did with Boggs and Clemens, they projected into the future and with Pedro saw a brittle pitcher whose best days are behind him and who would be injured more often than not in the years to come, especially since Pedro was looking for a 4 year deal, which seemed like a pretty gamble at the time. This was a pretty reasonable prognosis, but the guy can still bring it when he pitches; though 4 years did seem excessive at the time given the circumstances. So I'd chalk this one up to a combination between the Sox efforts and Pedro's demands; but with Clemens and Boggs, the team really missed the boat and held the door open for two greats.

I never forgot Boggs' little jab in '93 about how he didn't know anything about the Red Sox..that he was a "rookie" with the Yankees...

One time I was at a spring training game in WPB against the Expos and I loudly reminded Wade that Lou Merloni looked GREAT wearing #26.

Maybe if Boggs and Clemens PUBLICALLY apologize to the Boston fans, I'd say it'd be OK to hang up #26 and #21 over the RF stands...

[DoubleX]

I never forgot Boggs' little jab in '93 about how he didn't know anything about the Red Sox..that he was a "rookie" with the Yankees...

One time I was at a spring training game in WPB against the Expos and I loudly reminded Wade that Lou Merloni looked GREAT wearing #26.

Maybe if Boggs and Clemens PUBLICALLY apologize to the Boston fans, I'd say it'd be OK to hang up #26 and #21 over the RF stands...

Publically apologize for what? For being undervalued and underappreciated by their team and then moving on to teams that better coveted what they had to offer at that stage in their careers? What's Clemens going to say? "I'm sorry Mr. Duquette thought my career was in its twilight and it was not worth it to bring me back to the only professional team I've ever known."

[VTSoxFan]

Nomar denies that he had anything to do with it, however. I know Nomar wasnt happy in Boston, but whether he actually asked to leave is another question.

If you had characters like Shaughnessy, Edes, etc. daily tearing you to shreds in the paper, and people believing them over your own word, wouldn't you be unhappy? I sure would.

I personally don't think he ever really wanted to leave.

Interesting note: during Nomar's first spring training after the Trade, Edes wrote an article about him which began "Like a snake shedding its skin under a desert sun, Nomar walked smiling into the Cubs clubhouse..." The disrespect was thick and palpable. Stephen King was right when he called the Boston sports media "cannibals".

Sorry for the sidebar -- back to the retired numbres discussion.

[DoubleX]

If you had characters like Shaughnessy, Edes, etc. daily tearing you to shreds in the paper, and people believing them over your own word, wouldn't you be unhappy? I sure would.

I personally don't think he ever really wanted to leave.

Interesting note: during Nomar's first spring training after the Trade, Edes wrote an article about him which began "Like a snake shedding its skin under a desert sun, Nomar walked smiling into the Cubs clubhouse..." The disrespect was thick and palpable. Stephen King was right when he called the Boston sports media "cannibals".

Sorry for the sidebar -- back to the retired numbres discussion.

I don't know whether Nomar wanted to leave or if it was just another fiction created by the Boston media, but I remember two things from that 2004 season when Nomar was still there:

1) He seemed to take an inordinate amount of time to recover from his injury.

2) His sitting on the bench while the rest of his teamates were on the railing as the Red Sox and Yankees battled in that great extra innings game (the game where Jeter dove into the stands).

[EvanAparra]

I don't know whether Nomar wanted to leave or if it was just another fiction created by the Boston media, but I remember two things from that 2004 season when Nomar was still there:

1) He seemed to take an inordinate amount of time to recover from his injury.

2) His sitting on the bench while the rest of his teamates were on the railing as the Red Sox and Yankees battled in that great extra innings game (the game where Jeter dove into the stands).

I think i remember that after Jeter made that play, Nomar asked into the game, and Francona didnt let him play.

[PhilWings24]

He might not have spent enough time, but wasnt good enough?? He was plenty good when he was here.

well i guess that's sort of what i mean.

i just mean that Pedro was so ridiculously good while a member of the team, his relatively short tenure could be overlooked. Nomar wasn't anything close to that good.

I'm not the Nomar fan that most sox fans are, when he was healthy i liked him because i sympathize with any player overshadowed by derek jeter, but it really seemed that in 2004 he was nothing short of a cancer to the team. teammates complained about him privately, he didn't seem to care about the games to nearly the degree his teammates did, and while he was very good with the red sox, he wasn't close to pedro's level.

so yeah, what i really mean is that pedro wasn't there long enough, and nomar wasn't there long enough. but pedro was SO good while he was there that his short tenure doesn't mean much to me, whereas nomar was very good, but not good enough to overlook the short time he spend with the team.

[PhilWings24]

If you had characters like Shaughnessy, Edes, etc. daily tearing you to shreds in the paper, and people believing them over your own word, wouldn't you be unhappy? I sure would.

I personally don't think he ever really wanted to leave.

Interesting note: during Nomar's first spring training after the Trade, Edes wrote an article about him which began "Like a snake shedding its skin under a desert sun, Nomar walked smiling into the Cubs clubhouse..." The disrespect was thick and palpable. Stephen King was right when he called the Boston sports media "cannibals".

Sorry for the sidebar -- back to the retired numbres discussion.

i would've been with you until the game at yankee stadium where there were 9 players on the field, 15 on the top step of the dugout, and 1 sulking and daydreaming on the bench, and nomar was that one.

actually i think i still am with you for the most part, except to me he clearly wanted to leave, i just don't think it was a whiney brat sort of "i feel disrespected" thing. i think he just couldn't handle the pressue in boston (though i learned from Feeding the Monster it apparently effected his personal life much, much more than it affected his game. he quite literally went insane for a while, thinking the Sox were tapping his phone and stuff).

the only thing that really turned me against him was his supposed fued with the front office, where he alledgedly held them hostage and basically forced them to trade him.

so i think he wanted out for sure, but i don't think it was at all like pedro feeling "disrespected" and was really just an enormous attention hog. i think it was more that he almost loved boston too much, and wouldn't be able to enjoy himself there until he won 5 straight gold gloves and batted 1.000 while never missing a game.

[The Kid]

What????????

[The Kid]

Why Foxx and Grove? Can someone explain to me why Red Sox fans associate Foxx and Grove with the Sox? The bulk of their careers, and the bulk of their best years, were with the Athletics, where they helped lead the team to two World Series and three straight pennants.

even though Grove was hurt during his sox career, he still put up pretty good numbers.

And don't get me started on Foxx.

[-Kyle-]

Why Foxx and Grove? Can someone explain to me why Red Sox fans associate Foxx and Grove with the Sox? The bulk of their careers, and the bulk of their best years, were with the Athletics, where they helped lead the team to two World Series and three straight pennants.

Why is your username Double X anyways, wouldn't you rather have it after a Yank or something. Just wonderin' :waving

[DoubleX]

even though Grove was hurt during his sox career, he still put up pretty good numbers.

And don't get me started on Foxx.

If you have time, you should go back to earlier in the thread where I compare what Grove and Foxx did for Red Sox compared to the Athletics. For Grove, the comparison is not even close. He was good, but nothing like the dominant pitcher we think of when we think of the Lefty Grove, when he was with the Red Sox. He was a 190 inning a year pitcher with the Sox compared to a 280 inning a year pitcher with the A's.

Foxx is a much closer comparison.

[DoubleX]

Why is your username Double X anyways, wouldn't you rather have it after a Yank or something. Just wonderin' :waving

It's an homage to Jimmie Foxx... Contrary to what many baseball fans (especially in Boston) believe, it is possible to be a Yankee fan and also have a higher appreciation for the game and its history. :p

[soberdennis]

[QUOTE=EvanAparra][QUOTE=DoubleX]Grove

- 5 ERA titles with the A's, in full seasons; his last two ERA titles with the Red Sox came while pitching under 200 innings.


I'm saying that when I think of Grove and Foxx, I think of them as Oakland Athletics much more than I think of them as Red Sox, and as such, don't believe retiring their numbers as Red Sox would be appropriate. Maybe I can concede Foxx, but definitely not Grove. .
I didn't know Foxx and Grove ever played in Oakland.
That said, anyone notice whose team record Ortiz broke today with number 51.

[EvanAparra]

[QUOTE=DoubleX][QUOTE=EvanAparra]
I didn't know Foxx and Grove ever played in Oakland.
That said, anyone notice whose team record Ortiz broke today with number 51.

They didnt. They played in Philly, when the A's were there.

[soberdennis]

[QUOTE=soberdennis][QUOTE=DoubleX]

They didnt. They played in Philly, when the A's were there.
I know that. My comment was in response to the previous association of them with the Oakland A's

[EvanAparra]

I know that as well. I was just trying to shrug off your sarcasm.

[soberdennis]

It's an homage to Jimmie Foxx... Contrary to what many baseball fans (especially in Boston) believe, it is possible to be a Yankee fan and also have a higher appreciation for the game and its history. :p
Thank you. You are pointing out what in my opinion is a true fan. You swear allegiance to one team, but are a baseball fan first.
Before I get nasty posts I am not trying to say that anyone else here is not a true fan. I am just giving my definition.

[EvanAparra]

Thank you. You are pointing out what in my opinion is a true fan. You swear allegiance to one team, but are a baseball fan first.
Before I get nasty posts I am not trying to say that anyone else here is not a true fan. I am just giving my definition.

lol. i dont think anyone was going to jump on you, but yeah DoubleX, nice handle. My favorite all-time player is a Yankee. Everyone thinks im a traitor, but how can you NOT like the Mic?

[soberdennis]

lol. i dont think anyone was going to jump on you, but yeah DoubleX, nice handle. My favorite all-time player is a Yankee. Everyone thinks im a traitor, but how can you NOT like the Mic?
Mick is my favorite, too. I was there when he hit his 500th on my 10th birthday. (God , it has been a while since I mentioned that.). I would say that Carl Yastriemski would rank in my top 5 , though. it shows respect for baseball greatness to look at players regardless of what team they played for.
Back to the Red Sox and Foxx, how many people associate Garvey with the Padres? But the Pads have retired his number, while the Dodgers haven't.

[DoubleX]

Back to the Red Sox and Foxx, how many people associate Garvey with the Padres? But the Pads have retired his number, while the Dodgers haven't.

It's like Aaron and Fingers with the Brewers. I think some of these expansion teams were desperate to create tradition

Also, thanks for point out my slip with the Oakland A's and Foxx and Grove. That was just a mistake - I meant to say that I think of them as Athletics, first and foremost, regardless of where the Athletics call home. Now if only someone would remind that A's that some truly magnificent players graced that franchise. I'd also like to see them bring back the elephant. :)

[The Kid]

Foxx is a much closer comparison.[/QUOTE]

I'm writing a letter to henry telling him to retire foxx's number. Anyone want to back me up?

[SDL]

Foxx is a much closer comparison.

I'm writing a letter to henry telling him to retire foxx's number. Anyone want to back me up?[/QUOTE]

I support it...but ler Loretta keep it. After Loretta leaves the Sox, that's it. Remmeber that when the Bruins retired #7 for Phil Esposito, Espo himself said that Ray Bourque could continue to wear the number. Bourque surprised evrybody with his #77 jersey. Doubt Loretta will change to, let's say #66, but it would be interesting to see how Loretta would handle it.

[The Kid]

Thanks man. Anyone else?

[DoubleX]

I'm writing a letter to henry telling him to retire foxx's number. Anyone want to back me up?

Good luck to you. Foxx deserves to be remembered by some team, though Red Sox wouldn't be my first choice.

[soberdennis]

Good luck to you. Foxx deserves to be remembered by some team, though Red Sox wouldn't be my first choice.
I think he probably should be remembered by both teams.
This is an interesting conversation the week Foxx's single season team HR record is broken.

[The Kid]

That's 3. anyone else?

[rwolfe09]

I don't know whether Nomar wanted to leave or if it was just another fiction created by the Boston media, but I remember two things from that 2004 season when Nomar was still there:

1) He seemed to take an inordinate amount of time to recover from his injury.

2) His sitting on the bench while the rest of his teamates were on the railing as the Red Sox and Yankees battled in that great extra innings game (the game where Jeter dove into the stands).

A little off topic opinion. Nomar was the Red Sox. If he didn't want something done..then it didn't happen. Once he was traded, the chemistry came back and you all know what happened. I have a feeling that Manny is becoming Boston's next Nomar.

[EvanAparra]

Except that Manny was our WS MVP. I'll take that!

on a side note, remember that "no more nomar" song.... I wonder if FOX ever got my mail bomb. :D

[The Kid]

Back to Foxx. ANYONE WHO THINKS HIS # SHOULD BE RETIRED, WRITE A LETTER TO HENRY!:radio

[DoubleX]

Back to Foxx. ANYONE WHO THINKS HIS # SHOULD BE RETIRED, WRITE A LETTER TO HENRY!:radio

Don't the Red Sox have pretty strict rules on retiring numbers? Like a player has to retire as a member of the Red Sox or something? Foxx played for the Cubs and Phillies after the Red Sox.

[SDL]

Don't the Red Sox have pretty strict rules on retiring numbers? Like a player has to retire as a member of the Red Sox or something? Foxx played for the Cubs and Phillies after the Red Sox.

They bent the rules to retire #27 for Fisk. Using the same critera, they should retire #43 for The Eck (he works for NESN..Sox own some of NESN, right?).

RETIRE #25 FOR TONY C AND #6 FOR PESKY & PETROCELLI AS WELL!

[EvanAparra]

They bent the rules to retire #27 for Fisk. Using the same critera, they should retire #43 for The Eck (he works for NESN..Sox own some of NESN, right?).

RETIRE #25 FOR TONY C AND #6 FOR PESKY & PETROCELLI AS WELL!


Come on... With all these numbers you want retired, there will be slim pickings for everyone else...

Eck wasnt all that great in Boston, and was MUCH better in Oakland, including his 0.61 ERA year. 6 years in Boston, not enough to retire his number.

I don't agree with Pesky or Tony C. either... I'd much rather see Evans and Rice than any of these 3.

[maximum jack]

I was just digging through an old box of baseball cards I had stored in my closet. I was never really a serious collector, but while I was still playing in the youth leagues I kept up with it somewhat. I digress. Anyway, I found this short stack of cards labeled "Baseball's All-Time Greats." It seems to be a complete set of 50 cards. They have no brand name on them, nor do they have any sort of date on them. I don't remember buying them, but I haven't bought a baseball card since 1985 or so. Interestingly, Jimmie Foxx is featured in a Red Sox uniform. Lefty Grove, however, is wearing his Philidelphia attire. The only other Red Sox: Ted, Tris, & Joe Cronin.

[SDL]

Come on... With all these numbers you want retired, there will be slim pickings for everyone else...

Eck wasnt all that great in Boston, and was MUCH better in Oakland, including his 0.61 ERA year. 6 years in Boston, not enough to retire his number.

I don't agree with Pesky or Tony C. either... I'd much rather see Evans and Rice than any of these 3.

It's called RESPECT. They officially named the RF foul pole Pesky's Pole...so I say..one step further and retire #6.

OK..how many people here think #25 should be retired for Tony Conigliaro?

[EvanAparra]

Its also called Common Sense.

They have embraced Pesky so much, don't you think they would have already done it if they were going to?

Respect does not equal to a retired number. Most players are respected by their clubs, doesnt mean they need to have their number retired.

Eck should definately not have his number retired by the Sox.

Like i said...Evans and Rice contributed way more to this team than Pesky and Conigliaro ever did. Great Red Sox, but if you retire people like that, then others like Nomar, Vaughn, and Manny should go up too.

I like the way the sox have it now. Retire a very small amount of numbers, no need to throw every all-star you got in there.

[SDL]

Its also called Common Sense.

They have embraced Pesky so much, don't you think they would have already done it if they were going to?

Respect does not equal to a retired number. Most players are respected by their clubs, doesnt mean they need to have their number retired.

Eck should definately not have his number retired by the Sox.

Like i said...Evans and Rice contributed way more to this team than Pesky and Conigliaro ever did. Great Red Sox, but if you retire people like that, then others like Nomar, Vaughn, and Manny should go up too.

I like the way the sox have it now. Retire a very small amount of numbers, no need to throw every all-star you got in there.

I will bet they will honor Pesky..and Petrocelli the same way with a retirement. I take it that if Pesky got into the HOF via the Vet Committee you'd support #6 going up?

Look at Fisk..he played longer with Chicago than in Boston and yet #27 went up.

Tony C is also out respect and if you project what might have been had he never gotten hurt, he'd have put up potential HOF numbers.

Will they retire #24 for Evans when Manny is gone?

[DoubleX]

They bent the rules to retire #27 for Fisk. Using the same critera, they should retire #43 for The Eck (he works for NESN..Sox own some of NESN, right?).

RETIRE #25 FOR TONY C AND #6 FOR PESKY & PETROCELLI AS WELL!

Retire Eckersley? Now that's going too far. Just because a great player played for the Red Sox, doesn't mean the Sox should retire his number. Eckersley spent 6.5 seasons as a starter for the Sox and then one mediocre season at the very end. During the 6.5 years, he only had two good seasons, and 4.5 mostly mediocre ones. I can't see any argument that Eckersley is an all-time Red Sox great.

[SDL]

Retire Eckersley? Now that's going too far. Just because a great player played for the Red Sox, doesn't mean the Sox should retire his number. Eckersley spent 6.5 seasons as a starter for the Sox and then one mediocre season at the very end. During the 6.5 years, he only had two good seasons, and 4.5 mostly mediocre ones. I can't see any argument that Eckersley is an all-time Red Sox great.

I was just using the criteria they used to retire Fisk's number. Like I said...Fisk played longer for the ChiSox than he did for the BoSox.

Now...would you retire #26 for Boggs? Tampa Bay retired his #12 and he only played two seasons down here.

If he takes back his slap-in-the-face comment about how he never played fpr the Sox..that he was a rookie with the Yankees, I'd maybe forgive him...

[EvanAparra]

I will bet they will honor Pesky..and Petrocelli the same way with a retirement. I take it that if Pesky got into the HOF via the Vet Committee you'd support #6 going up?

Look at Fisk..he played longer with Chicago than in Boston and yet #27 went up.

Tony C is also out respect and if you project what might have been had he never gotten hurt, he'd have put up potential HOF numbers.

Will they retire #24 for Evans when Manny is gone?

Fisk was in the Sox organization for 11 years. Pesky for 7, Tony C for 6.

But i wouldnt be mad if they put Peskys number up, but i just wouldnt want it.

Conigliaro will not/should not have his number retired. 6 years is way too short, no matter how you look at it.

I like it being very exclusive. I dont want to retire every good players number.

[DoubleX]

Now...would you retire #26 for Boggs? Tampa Bay retired his #12 and he only played two seasons down here.

If he takes back his slap-in-the-face comment about how he never played fpr the Sox..that he was a rookie with the Yankees, I'd maybe forgive him...

Boggs being retired as a Red Sox is certainly justified. The Devil Rays retiring his number was just silly and another example of an expansion team trying to create tradition from nothing (the Brewers retiring Aaron and Fingers are the best example of this; the Padres and Steve Garvey are another).

Boggs is apparently the reason why players can no longer pick what cap they wear on their Hall of Fame plaque. The rumor was that Boggs entered into some secret agreement with the Devil Rays in which he agreed to be a Devil Ray in the Hall of Fame.

[maximum jack]

Boggs being retired as a Red Sox is certainly justified. The Devil Rays retiring his number was just silly and another example of an expansion team trying to create tradition from nothing (the Brewers retiring Aaron and Fingers are the best example of this; the Padres and Steve Garvey are another).

Boggs is apparently the reason why players can no longer pick what cap they wear on their Hall of Fame plaque. The rumor was that Boggs entered into some secret agreement with the Devil Rays in which he agreed to be a Devil Ray in the Hall of Fame.

Did Boggs grow up in Tampa? Here's his HoF Plaque (wearing a Boston Cap):
http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/hofers_and_honorees/plaques/Boggs_Wade.htm

[Sliding Billy]

Wonder when they're going to retire Pumpsie Green's number.

[soberdennis]

I was just digging through an old box of baseball cards I had stored in my closet. I was never really a serious collector, but while I was still playing in the youth leagues I kept up with it somewhat. I digress. Anyway, I found this short stack of cards labeled "Baseball's All-Time Greats." It seems to be a complete set of 50 cards. They have no brand name on them, nor do they have any sort of date on them. I don't remember buying them, but I haven't bought a baseball card since 1985 or so. Interestingly, Jimmie Foxx is featured in a Red Sox uniform. Lefty Grove, however, is wearing his Philidelphia attire. The only other Red Sox: Ted, Tris, & Joe Cronin.
Of those three the only one who is always associated with the Sox is Ted. Speaker is just as much an Indian. Cronin's association with the Sox is mainly in management.

[The Kid]

Pesky and Tony C. didn't play long enough for the sox.

Only Foxx, Boggs and Clemens # should be retired.

[DoubleX]

Did Boggs grow up in Tampa? Here's his HoF Plaque (wearing a Boston Cap):
http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/hofers_and_honorees/plaques/Boggs_Wade.htm

I think so, though I'm not positive. He was much celebrated by the Devil Rays, like a returning hero, so I got the impression that he was a hometown guy (though baseball-reference lists his birthplace as Nebraska). If the Hall hadn't changed his rules, he probably would be wearing a Devil Rays hat if that rumor was true.

[EvanAparra]

Wasnt he a player/manager for over 10 years? Then only a manager for a couple? I wouldnt exactly say this means its mainly management.

[soberdennis]

Boggs being retired as a Red Sox is certainly justified. The Devil Rays retiring his number was just silly and another example of an expansion team trying to create tradition from nothing (the Brewers retiring Aaron and Fingers are the best example of this; the Padres and Steve Garvey are another).

Boggs is apparently the reason why players can no longer pick what cap they wear on their Hall of Fame plaque. The rumor was that Boggs entered into some secret agreement with the Devil Rays in which he agreed to be a Devil Ray in the Hall of Fame.
Garvey het probably the most famous homer in Padre history. I can see the Pads retiring his number. Fingers won a CYA with the Brewers.
But the others I agree with you on.
Garvey should have his number retired by the bums.

[soberdennis]

Wasnt he a player/manager for over 10 years? Then only a manager for a couple? I wouldnt exactly say this means its mainly management.
Cronin had his best years as a player in Washington. I would have to look at his entire career to know exactly how it broke down.
I looked it up and you are correct in that he was a player manager for all that time. In fact 46 was his first year as just manager. But many of those years he played less than 100 games. The breakdown between games as a Senator and games as a RedSox is close.
And correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he was GM before becoming AL Pres.

[EvanAparra]

Eh, i dont know about him having his best years in Washington.

I think his '37-'41 years in Boston were better than any 5 seasons he had in Washington.

[soberdennis]

Eh, i dont know about him having his best years in Washington.

I think his '37-'41 years in Boston were better than any 5 seasons he had in Washington.
I edited my post to acknowledge at least some of what you are saying.

[SDL]

Fisk was in the Sox organization for 11 years. Pesky for 7, Tony C for 6.

But i wouldnt be mad if they put Peskys number up, but i just wouldnt want it.

Conigliaro will not/should not have his number retired. 6 years is way too short, no matter how you look at it.

I like it being very exclusive. I dont want to retire every good players number.

Pesky has been with the organization for more than seven years...

And for Tony C, ..it is RESPECT if they hang it up. Hey, as you can tell, I'm a die-hard Bill Lee fan, but I know #37 will never be retired.

[DoubleX]

Garvey het probably the most famous homer in Padre history. I can see the Pads retiring his number. Fingers won a CYA with the Brewers.
But the others I agree with you on.
Garvey should have his number retired by the bums.

So? Bobby Thompson's number isn't retired by the Giants. Joe Carter's number is not retired by the Blue Jays.

As for Cy Young award winners - most don't have their numbers retired by any team.

[EvanAparra]

Theres a place for people this that... The Boston Red Sox Hall of Fame.

Charlie Wagner was in the Sox organization for 70 years, no one is retiring his number.

[soberdennis]

So? Bobby Thompson's number isn't retired by the Giants. Joe Carter's number is not retired by the Blue Jays.

As for Cy Young award winners - most don't have their numbers retired by any team.
I am just stating the probable reasons. Personally I find it hard to imagine any team retiring as many #s as the Yanks have. Nor should they. I am not 100% sure the Yanks should have , even though I am not sure whose # I wouldn't have retired.

[SDL]

I think so, though I'm not positive. He was much celebrated by the Devil Rays, like a returning hero, so I got the impression that he was a hometown guy (though baseball-reference lists his birthplace as Nebraska). If the Hall hadn't changed his rules, he probably would be wearing a Devil Rays hat if that rumor was true.

Boggs grew up in Tampa, so he's regarded as a native down here.

Supposedly if and when Andre Dawson gets in the HOF, he'll be wearing a Marlins cap.