Old Comiskey Park

[POLO GROUNDS 1957]

The good old days, memories

[POLO GROUNDS 1957]

memories of old comiskey park

[POLO GROUNDS 1957]

1985 happy birthday comiskey park

[sschirmer]

I went to Old Comiskey four times. Great park, great memories.

[History Of Baseball Fan]

i've never been there before, but after looking at old photographs of it, i say it was a pretty cool looking stadium.

[POLO GROUNDS 1957]

i've never been there before, but after looking at old photographs of it, i say it was a pretty cool looking stadium.
Old comiskey park was alot better than that dump they call home now days.they could have stayed at old comiskey park but the owners threated to leave chicago if they did not get there new stadium.i was there once in 1991 for the auction of items from the old comiskey park. and i will say it was and i am sure still is a dump today.

[sschirmer]

Two things bother me about the new park: A. The owners kept claiming that the neighborhood they were in was killing them. So what did they do? Built the new park across the street, of course. B. New Comisky was an antique as soon as Camden Yards opened. Whoever designed the place lacked imagination and vision.

[bluezebra]

I went to Old Comiskey many times, mainly to see the visiting teams (I'm a Cubs fan). I had friends who were Sox fans, and their Dad used to drive. We used to sit in the lower deck in right field. Some of the fans would buy a beer, pour it out, and fill the cup with "hard stuff" they snuck in in their coats. We had two guys sitting behind us one night, and they would bet on every pitch, whether it would be a ball or strike.

In 1947, we were out there when Yogi Berra was a rookie playing right field. A Roberto Clemente, he wasn't. The Sox fans were brutal in their comments. In the top of the seventh, he hit one into the upper deck, and when he came out in the bottom of the inning, the stands were quieter than a funeral.

In those days, the Sox were terrible, and the two upper decks were opened ONLY for Sunday and holiday double headers.

In August, 1948, I had a cousin who was a photographer with the Chicago Times. He took me with him to a Wednesday afternoon game, and I was on the field before the game. I stood within three feet of Joe DiMaggio, and all I could do was gawk at him. During the game, he hit a line drive into the third deck in left field that broke a seat. Since no one was up there, it sounded like a bomb went off.

My Dad told me he saw The Babe hit one out of the park, not over the roof, but through one of the openings.

Bob

[RedSox2004]

I miss the old girl

http://www.ballparktour.com/Former_Chicago.html

[POLO GROUNDS 1957]

Here is a seating diagram for old comiskey park.

[POLO GROUNDS 1957]

This photo showing a section of comiskey park seats is from a white sox scorecard.

[POLO GROUNDS 1957]

Here is a photo showing the centerfield bleachers at old comiskey park.

[POLO GROUNDS 1957]

Here is a program cover from a 1959 world series program from comiskey park.

[Solair Wright]

I was only two when they destroyed the ballpark in favor of the pale imitation, which isn't like the old one. They could've built an almost exact replica of Comiskey, but no, they decided to move across the street. Despite the (Jail) Cell being newer than old Comiskey, I refuse to go there. Comiskey was a classic, whereas the Jail Cell is not.

The lady was knocked down at the end of 1990-early 1991 to make room for that Jail Cell.

[Solair Wright]

Here's another photo of the original home of Comiskey, before they moved across to the street to the dump that gives Comiskey a bad name. In 2003, it was renamed to the Cell, but I call it the "Jail Cell" because it's just disgraceful that they knocked down the original Comiskey Park. The new one gives Comiskey a bad name.

From 1910-1990, it was the home of the White Sox greats. Then the fateful 1991 demolition...I still miss this ballpark. Here's a photo of it during a day game:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/ff/Old_comiskey_park.jpg

Let's compare this to the Jail Cell...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/88/US_Cellular_Field.jpg

Even though I was 2 when the ballpark was demolished, I wish I could go back in time and attend a game at the original Comiskey Park.

Edit: I apologize for the size of the image, it was the best picture I could get of New Comiskey Park.

[redbuck]

Old Comiskey Park had a lot of history to it. It also had posts, a lot of awkward viewing angles and was in a lot of ways somewhat ugly. Still, most of the seats were pretty close to the field, and the old scoreboard was impressive. By 1990 it was definitely showing its age, and attendance was not very good. That isn't to say it wasn't a great park.

But at some point all old parks have to be replaced. New Comiskey opened to tremendous reviews. Unfortunately with the onslaught of Camden Yards and the real retro parks, its reputation quickly fell because of the steep upper deck (which I don't mind), the lack of a good view out of the outfield and some elements that could have been done a lot better.

With the renovations I like it. I've said before that the fact that something is new is not sufficient grounds to hate it. At the Cel (terrible new name) I love the symmetry and the lower concourse. No other park in baseball has such great smells and interesting carnival-like atmosphere on its main concourse. It's not the best new park, but it seems silly to call it a "dump".

[POLO GROUNDS 1957]

Old Comiskey Park had a lot of history to it. It also had posts, a lot of awkward viewing angles and was in a lot of ways somewhat ugly. Still, most of the seats were pretty close to the field, and the old scoreboard was impressive. By 1990 it was definitely showing its age, and attendance was not very good. That isn't to say it wasn't a great park.

But at some point all old parks have to be replaced. New Comiskey opened to tremendous reviews. Unfortunately with the onslaught of Camden Yards and the real retro parks, its reputation quickly fell because of the steep upper deck (which I don't mind), the lack of a good view out of the outfield and some elements that could have been done a lot better.

With the renovations I like it. I've said before that the fact that something is new is not sufficient grounds to hate it. At the Cel (terrible new name) I love the symmetry and the lower concourse. No other park in baseball has such great smells and interesting carnival-like atmosphere on its main concourse. It's not the best new park, but it seems silly to call it a "dump".The current white sox stadium is a dump its just as bad as the dump that the detroit tigers play in these days.

[redbuck]

It's one thing if you don't like it. I don't think dump is the right term. It doesn't sound like you've given any of the new ballparks much of a chance, sadly, but I would assume the reasons you don't like it have to do more with its overly modern style and kind of sterile apperance rather than it being rundown, dirty or architecturally outdated.

No negative feelings intended, but are there any ballparks under 50 years old that you tolerate? The fact of architecture is that at some point buildings must be replaced. Why is it that every replacement is automatically bad? It takes time to develop character.

[serumgard]

It's one thing if you don't like it. I don't think dump is the right term. It doesn't sound like you've given any of the new ballparks much of a chance, sadly, but I would assume the reasons you don't like it have to do more with its overly modern style and kind of sterile apperance rather than it being rundown, dirty or architecturally outdated.

No negative feelings intended, but are there any ballparks under 50 years old that you tolerate? The fact of architecture is that at some point buildings must be replaced. Why is it that every replacement is automatically bad? It takes time to develop character.
Well put. I would not put "New Comiskey" with some of the better new stadiums (Comerica Park in Detroit being one of them), but Comiskey Park was a hole. I went there once - for Opening Day in 1988 - and even as a 10-year-old I could recognize the place was a dump. Just like the Memorial Stadiums in Baltimore and Cleveland and Tiger Stadium, Comiskey Park needed to go. They had their days - but those days were 40 or 50 years past.

[riverfrontier]

I've never considered the new parks as 'dumps'. They are extremely well-kept, and very nice post cards are made from aerial photographs. The steep prices at the concession stands are, like airport prices, ridiculous but avoidable. You don't have to buy anything other than a ticket. But you do have to regret the fact that the upper deck is not a viable option if you want to actually watch the game, rather than just participate in the atmosphere of the game.

[redbuck]

Certainly true. From your avatar I'm guessing you're a Reds fan. I move around but attend several games there each year and prefer the upper deck seats at GABP - I like to see the river and have a really good view of the scoreboard.

I enjoy visiting a park like Fenway, but I certainly wouldn't want to spend a season there. It's just too cramped, dark, dirty and somewhat awkward. That's, of course, what gives it its charm but I don't mind the new parks one bit, except for their universal uniformity.

[POLO GROUNDS 1957]

Well put. I would not put "New Comiskey" with some of the better new stadiums (Comerica Park in Detroit being one of them), but Comiskey Park was a hole. I went there once - for Opening Day in 1988 - and even as a 10-year-old I could recognize the place was a dump. Just like the Memorial Stadiums in Baltimore and Cleveland and Tiger Stadium, Comiskey Park needed to go. They had their days - but those days were 40 or 50 years past.
The current comiskey park is a dump. i did go into the stadium in 1991 after my friend payed my way into the auction for items of the old comiskey park.the upper deck stinks bad. a couple of years after it opened the stadium had cracks in the foundation.and old comiskey park was not a dump. granted it was not as well kept up as tiger stadium in detroit but it was no dump.i still hate the new comiskey park just as i did in 1991.and i refuse to go there for a game.if i do go to chicago i always stop across the street were old comiskey park was and checkout homeplate and the batters boxes and the foul lines.i hate this current white sox ballpark just like i hate the new stadium in detroit.

[serumgard]

The current comiskey park is a dump. i did go into the stadium in 1991 after my friend payed my way into the auction for items of the old comiskey park.the upper deck stinks bad. a couple of years after it opened the stadium had cracks in the foundation.and old comiskey park was not a dump. granted it was not as well kept up as tiger stadium in detroit but it was no dump.i still hate the new comiskey park just as i did in 1991.and i refuse to go there for a game.if i do go to chicago i always stop across the street were old comiskey park was and checkout homeplate and the batters boxes and the foul lines.i hate this current white sox ballpark just like i hate the new stadium in detroit.
Well for once you're talking with some knowledge, since you at least have been to the new Comiskey Park. But how on earth can you hate a stadium that you admit you've never been to?

[POLO GROUNDS 1957]

Well for once you're talking with some knowledge, since you at least have been to the new Comiskey Park. But how on earth can you hate a stadium that you admit you've never been to?
As far as the stadium in detroit last fall i had jury duty and on my lunch hour i walked all the way around comerica park to checkout the stadium for myself.so now nobody can say anything to me about my opinion since i have been to the stadium in detroit. and i still say that its a dump like the stadium in chicago.

[serumgard]

As far as the stadium in detroit last fall i had jury duty and on my lunch hour i walked all the way around comerica park to checkout the stadium for myself.so now nobody can say anything to me about my opinion since i have been to the stadium in detroit. and i still say that its a dump like the stadium in chicago.
Oh geez. You realize that if you had walked around Tiger Stadium you would've thought it was a warehouse? You've never seen a game there, so you have no idea what the stadium is like when it's crowded and lively.

I have no idea why I insist on challenging your opinions. Nothing you say comes close to changing my opinion of you.

[POLO GROUNDS 1957]

Oh geez. You realize that if you had walked around Tiger Stadium you would've thought it was a warehouse? You've never seen a game there, so you have no idea what the stadium is like when it's crowded and lively.

I have no idea why I insist on challenging your opinions. Nothing you say comes close to changing my opinion of you.
Hey i never saw a game at the stadium in chicago and i still say that its a dump just like the stadium here in detroit.
Tiger stadium has never looked like a warehouse.

[redbuck]

I don't think there's any chance you would ever like a new stadium. It seems that you go into each one with the preconceived notion that it is a dump, find one flaw, declare it vastly inferior to every stadium ever constructed before 1950, and then assume that everyone else who can appreciate great modern architecture an idiot.

Comerica has won numerous awards for having a brilliantly designed exterior. Some old parks have beautiful external facades - old Comiskey Park I would say was one of the ugliest. Based on exteriors I don't give much credibility to anyone who compares Comerica to old Comiskey and finds Comerica to be a dump.

There is a lot of beauty to old ballparks, but there can be at least some to new parks. When you come out time after time and just declare that anything new is a dump, you lose a lot of credibility and end up looking prejudiced to an extent that is laughable but at the same time which eliminates any intelligence or fun we might gain from a real argument.

I pose my question again, is there any stadium constructed in the last 50 years that you tolerate?

[POLO GROUNDS 1957]

I pose my question again, is there any stadium constructed in the last 50 years that you tolerate?
County stadium in Milwaukee, metropolitan stadium in minnesota,dodger stadium(But it will never compare to ebbets field)old memorial stadium in baltimore.california angels stadium before they enclosed it.

[redbuck]

How about since 1980?

[POLO GROUNDS 1957]

How about since 1980?
The answer is NO these new ballparks are cookie cutter stadiums just like the ones back in the 1960s and 1970s. they all copy the stadium in baltimore.

[serumgard]

County stadium in Milwaukee, metropolitan stadium in minnesota,dodger stadium(But it will never compare to ebbets field)old memorial stadium in baltimore.california angels stadium before they enclosed it.
Of the stadiums I've seen, I think your standards are way too high. Dodger Stadium's a dump, as was Memorial Stadium in Baltimore. Angels Stadium is one of the nicest parks I've been to (of course, that's since the enclosure, so clearly it's a "dump"). I'm guessing you think Shea Stadium's pretty nice too.

[POLO GROUNDS 1957]

Of the stadiums I've seen, I think your standards are way too high. Dodger Stadium's a dump, as was Memorial Stadium in Baltimore. Angels Stadium is one of the nicest parks I've been to (of course, that's since the enclosure, so clearly it's a "dump"). I'm guessing you think Shea Stadium's pretty nice too.
I hate shea stadium with a passion since they tore down the polo grounds in 1964 for shea stadium.i cant wait to see its demolition. that will make up for the sad day that they tore down the polo grounds in 1964.

[serumgard]

I hate shea stadium with a passion since they tore down the polo grounds in 1964 for shea stadium.i cant wait to see its demolition. that will make up for the sad day that they tore down the polo grounds in 1964.
Just how long do you expect ballparks to last? Tiger Stadium...Comiskey Park...the Polo Grounds. There were very good reasons these stadiums were replaced. They had worn out their useful life. The dump that was the Polo Grounds was, I believe, one of the big reasons the Giants moved (I could be wrong about that). The dimensions were horrendous. Why hold on to something for this long? It's been 40 years.

[POLO GROUNDS 1957]

Here is a cover of the 1963 chicago white sox yearbook that was sold at old comiskey park.

[redbuck]

Is this a line of thinking that applies to your entire life? The internet became public in 1985 and thus must be horrible. Cell phones are the creation of Satan, and the Arizona Diamondbacks aren't even a real team.

[POLO GROUNDS 1957]

Just how long do you expect ballparks to last? Tiger Stadium...Comiskey Park...the Polo Grounds. There were very good reasons these stadiums were replaced. They had worn out their useful life. The dump that was the Polo Grounds was, I believe, one of the big reasons the Giants moved (I could be wrong about that). The dimensions were horrendous. Why hold on to something for this long? It's been 40 years.
The polo grounds was never a dump. i have talked to fans that did go there to see games and was told that the polo grounds was a great place to see games. i have even heard that from some brooklyn dodger fans also.and the polo grounds was never falling apart either.

[POLO GROUNDS 1957]

Here are some ticket stubs from the 1983 allstar game from old comiskey park.

[riverfrontier]

The 'art' of architecture is supposed to come from the way the aesthetic beauty of a building enhances its functional use, or vice versa. I just made that up, but it seems vague and applicable. New ballparks seem to glorify the aesthetics over the functionality. I'm in the middle of this argument, and I say we party when it's over. POLOGROUNDS 1957, the fact that you get jury duty when you can't differentiate between 'their', 'they're' or 'there' would lead me to believe that a picture is indeed worth a thousand words. Especially in the legal system.

[riverfrontier]

I immediately regret that post, but I'll stand by it.

[serumgard]

I immediately regret that post, but I'll stand by it.
You shouldn't. Pretty much said it all.

For what it's worth, I've never looked at an aesthetically beautiful and thought it lacked in functionality. For everything you lose from the old ballparks (closeness of the upper decks, for example) you gain something much better (no obstructed view seats).

[POLO GROUNDS 1957]

Here is a 1972 chicago white sox program that was sold at old comiskey park. and on the cover is Bill Melton and Wilbur Wood of the white sox.

[POLO GROUNDS 1957]

Here is a 1975 chicago white sox program from old comiskey park.

[redbuck]

...some relevant data and research from an article I wrote on the subject a few months ago:

(1 = 19-teens ballpark boom ballparks, 2 = cookie cutters, 3 = retro parks)

Capacity
1 2 3
Average 24234 51166 45422
St. Dev. 7470 5982 4536

Outfield Dimensions
1 2 3
LF 359 332 333
CF 450 405 405
RF 337 331 327

Change in attendance between year before the new
trend park opened and the year after
1 2 3
percent change 21 105 34
number change 697 10673 8696

...I was not surprised to read that when new Busch Stadium opened in 2006, it was hailed by one newswire report as the “key to St. Louis’ new renaissance.” It replaced “blocks of historic buildings, mostly vacant except for pigeons.” But sifting through the archives of The Post Dispatch, I discovered a more surprising article from 1991 in which broadcaster Jack Buck recalled that when old Busch Stadium opened, “it saved downtown St. Louis…Everything else aside, it did an awful lot to clean up the city.”...

[POLO GROUNDS 1957]

Here is a white sox beer ad from a 1975 program from comiskey park. Falstaff beer was a sponsor for the sox.this ad has also been posted in the beer and ballparks thread.

[redbuck]

----------

[POLO GROUNDS 1957]

...some relevant data and research from an article I wrote on the subject a few months ago:

(1 = 19-teens ballpark boom ballparks, 2 = cookie cutters, 3 = retro parks)

Capacity
1 2 3
Average 24234 51166 45422
St. Dev. 7470 5982 4536

Outfield Dimensions
1 2 3
LF 359 332 333
CF 450 405 405
RF 337 331 327

Change in attendance between year before the new
trend park opened and the year after
1 2 3
percent change 21 105 34
number change 697 10673 8696

...I was not surprised to read that when new Busch Stadium opened in 2006, it was hailed by one newswire report as the “key to St. Louis’ new renaissance.” It replaced “blocks of historic buildings, mostly vacant except for pigeons.” But sifting through the archives of The Post Dispatch, I discovered a more surprising article from 1991 in which broadcaster Jack Buck recalled that when old Busch Stadium opened, “it saved downtown St. Louis…Everything else aside, it did an awful lot to clean up the city.”...
THIS thread is about OLD COMISKEY PARK. this post is off topic.

[redbuck]

--------------------------

[POLO GROUNDS 1957]

Well, here is a program from new Comiskey. Looks pretty cool too.
This thread is about old comiskey park and this is off topic.

[redbuck]

THIS thread is about OLD COMISKEY PARK. this post is off topic.

No it's not. You made a claim about all new parks being similar to cookie cutter staida. Here are the facts. The retro trend is a very legitimate trend of similar parks. I've argued that for years. But the similarities are not nearly as close as with the cookie cutters of the late '60s and '70s.

There's a point with the quote too. People tend to perceive that everything about the old park was perfect. You forget the run down neighborhoods, the lack of parking, the narrow, dark, hot concourses, the outdated restrooms, the posts, the narrow aisles, the tiny seats, the awkward viewing angles...even a cookie cutter like Busch Stadium apparently was treated like a gem when it opened. It saved the city, or so says one of the most respected names in baseball history.

[redbuck]

I'm sorry you're angry. You have angrily referred to new Comiskey as a dump so many times without reason that I feel like it is my duty to defend it.

If you want to keep this thread about old Comiskey, then let's do that. But then you can't insert cheap shots and baseless generalizations without expecting to get a rebuttal.

[POLO GROUNDS 1957]

No it's not. You made a claim about all new parks being similar to cookie cutter staida. Here are the facts. The retro trend is a very legitimate trend of similar parks. I've argued that for years. But the similarities are not nearly as close as with the cookie cutters of the late '60s and '70s.

There's a point with the quote too. People tend to perceive that everything about the old park was perfect. You forget the run down neighborhoods, the lack of parking, the narrow, dark, hot concourses, the outdated restrooms, the posts, the narrow aisles, the tiny seats, the awkward viewing angles...even a cookie cutter like Busch Stadium apparently was treated like a gem when it opened. It saved the city, or so says one of the most respected names in baseball history.
You are going off topic here. that is why i stopped posting with you and started posting the photos of programs from old comiskey park.

[serumgard]

You are going off topic here. that is why i stopped posting with you and started posting the photos of programs from old comiskey park.
Whether you like it or not, you started this whole discussion by referring to both the new Comiskey Park and Comerica Park in Detroit "dumps" (don't bother looking, I checked...you were the antagonist on this one). Your pictures of the park are very interesting, but you're naive and hypocritical if you think you're going to make such posts without inviting an argument to your position.

If you don't like our position that's fine, but it's because of you that this discussion has become part of the discussion.

[redbuck]

Apparently I didn't read your timetable. I was reading the posts and came upon a generality that I had factual data to refute, so I did. I see no harm there.

[POLO GROUNDS 1957]

Whether you like it or not, you started this whole discussion by referring to both the new Comiskey Park and Comerica Park in Detroit "dumps" (don't bother looking, I checked...you were the antagonist on this one). Your pictures of the park are very interesting, but you're naive and hypocritical if you think you're going to make such posts without inviting an argument to your position.

If you don't like our position that's fine, but it's because of you that this discussion has become part of the discussion.
If you did read the posts you will see that i did not start this by calling stadiums dumps.without posting who did. you need to go ahead and look again at these posts.and when you do go back and look at the posts from tuesday you will see that i did not start this.

[serumgard]

If you did read the posts you will see that i did not start this by calling stadiums dumps.without posting who did. you need to go ahead and look again at these posts.and when you do go back and look at the posts from tuesday you will see that i did not start this.
I'm sorry, you're correct. I started reading the thread from the start and voiced my opinion about posts you made in October. Sorry.

[redbuck]

Well, this has turned into an unusual thread. Let's all give ourselves a round of applause for bickering, then bickering about the bickering.

[bluezebra]

As far as the stadium in detroit last fall i had jury duty and on my lunch hour i walked all the way around comerica park to checkout the stadium for myself.so now nobody can say anything to me about my opinion since i have been to the stadium in detroit. and i still say that its a dump like the stadium in chicago.

Walked AROUND the OUTSIDE of Comerica Park. That sure is a great way of assessing the INSIDE.

Bob

[POLO GROUNDS 1957]

This photo showing old comiskey park was a give away at the stadium that i got during the 1990 and last season for the stadium. in total i saw 12 games at old comiskey park including the final game.the first game i went to comiskey was a kansas city royals game vs chicago in august of 1987.and i was also at what many people consider to be the longest rain delay in baseball history for a texas at chicago game in 1990.towards the end before the game was cancelled the team started to give out free drinks and food to the remaining fans who were still at the stadium.

[Knick9]

Thank you for the new pics, Donald. I seem to enjoy the red pinstripe ChiSox jerseys for whatever reason. They were classic. It certainly is interesting to take a look at the past. :atthepc

[POLO GROUNDS 1957]

Here is a 1961 chicago white sox yearbook that was sold at comiskey park.

[POLO GROUNDS 1957]

In august of 1987 i saw my first game at old comiskey park.i was there with my parents. the royals beat the sox bad that day but i was very happy to finally see a game at the old girl on the south side of chicago.i still remmber going into the stadium thru the main gates.to the left was a old fashion popcorn machine and to the right was the elevator and the main offices . you would walk straight to those steps behind homeplate.to the right of those steps was a small souvineer stand that was selling videos and items.and i still remmber that first walk up those steps and seeing the beautiful green grass and the green color of the stadium.that great old scoreboard and those yellow railings in the box seats near the field.these are things that i still recall after all of these years.

[POLO GROUNDS 1957]

Here is a 1978 White Sox program from comiskey park

[POLO GROUNDS 1957]

Here is a program from the last playoffs at old comiskey park in 1983 against baltimore.

[POLO GROUNDS 1957]

Here is a program from the 1983 allstar game at comiskey park.

[placount]

im confused. how do these programs pertain to the actual stadium? most of them dont even show a playing field. i could go to the new twins stadium and post pictures of the twins logo all day long but it wouldnt relate to the stadium in the least.

[Whitesoxnut]

The current comiskey park is a dump. i did go into the stadium in 1991 after my friend payed my way into the auction for items of the old comiskey park.the upper deck stinks bad. a couple of years after it opened the stadium had cracks in the foundation.and old comiskey park was not a dump. granted it was not as well kept up as tiger stadium in detroit but it was no dump.i still hate the new comiskey park just as i did in 1991.and i refuse to go there for a game.if i do go to chicago i always stop across the street were old comiskey park was and checkout homeplate and the batters boxes and the foul lines.i hate this current white sox ballpark just like i hate the new stadium in detroit.

Geez, take it easy. It baffles me that someone could hate a ballpark they have never been in. Old Comiskey was falling apart and rapidly becoming a dump. What choice was there to building a new one?

Same for Wrigley. Yaknow I get a kick out of starry eyed baseball fans that talk about their favorite parks when the thing is crumbling apart at their feet. I love the new Comiskey, most of all since the re-do. I think its a great park to watch baseball at.

Old Comiskey was a dump. I was going there since 1962 so I think I can say this with some experience. I went to Wrigley lasy=t year for the first time in over 20 years and was appalled at the deterioration. Compared to Comiskey the place looked like a High School stadium.

Its time the Cubs built a new one too.

[POLO GROUNDS 1957]

im confused. how do these programs pertain to the actual stadium? most of them dont even show a playing field. i could go to the new twins stadium and post pictures of the twins logo all day long but it wouldnt relate to the stadium in the least.

You are wrong programs have alot to do with these stadiums. those programs represent the last all star game and playoffs ever held at comiskey park.there is alot more than photos that bring back memories ,programs and even ticket stubs will bring back memories to people who went to comiskey park and to all of the classic stadiums from that era.

[POLO GROUNDS 1957]

Here is the cover of the nice history of comiskey park magazine that was put out in 1990

[POLO GROUNDS 1957]

Here is the other cover for the same magazine.

[POLO GROUNDS 1957]

Here is a nice undated photo of comiskey park.

[placount]

Here is the other cover for the same magazine.
this ones kinda neat, even if it does make the park look a little less appealing than id like to remember

[POLO GROUNDS 1957]

this ones kinda neat, even if it does make the park look a little less appealing than id like to remember

The photo shows a great view of old comiskey park from behind homeplate with even a post in the photo.i sure do miss those posts. the ballpark had a great upper deck view because of them. i did not mind the posts at all. i enjoyed sitting down in the right and left field corners.

[placount]

the pitch on the lower deck in the outfield looks real steep too, most new parks dont have it that steep. gabp seems to however, thats the one thing i like about that one.

[POLO GROUNDS 1957]

Here is a program cover from the Chicago Cubs at Chicago white sox exhibtion game at old comiskey park on 4-29-1985.

[Whitesoxnut]

Great photos Polo. Thanks.

My favorite memories of the old park was my old man and I sitting around the dinner table all of a sudden getting a hankering to see a ballgame. We would drive to the old ballpark and always be able to get in. My old man used to love sitting in the LF grandstand. This of course was "back in the day" when a working guy could take his family without having to take out a bank loan. Between the two ballparks I'd probably go to at least 60 games a year.

I can still remember the smell of the old Comiskey. That beer, cotton candy, smell. And even when I got older whenever I saw that grand old "Comiskey Park" sign I would want to break into a run out of fear of not getting in. And I'd always say to myself, "wow Babe Ruth played here".

[POLO GROUNDS 1957]

Here is the cover of a 1978 Chicago White Sox program from comiskey park. There is a nice airview of the Historic stadium.

[MattD1972]

I love the pictures on this board, especially the football shot (When I went to Comiskey in 1990, they showed a video on the scoreboard between innings of a soccer game in 1979 - It just looked odd). I won't belabor the arguements on the bard about old/new Comiskey, except to say that some would have preferred to see the Tampa Bay White Sox, as that was the only real choice in June 1988.
Anyway, does anyone have any good pictures of the infield in the early 70's, with the turf, or Sox Sod? I've never seen a picture that really sows how awful-looking it must have been.

[sflnyc]

Here are my submittals

First shot is from sometime between 1969-1975 when it was called White Sox Park (also the buses on the street told me that it was an early 1970's photo). Any Chicagoland area posters out there could provide better details on an approximate year by looking at the park features and the surrounding area (the Mack Truck facility, for example). This vantage point is similar to the 1990 photo that was shown in Post #58.

Second photo is from Opening Day at Comiskey on April 14, 1981 against the Brewers with a SRO crowd of 51,560 on hand. Ross Baumgarten is pitching to Robin Yount. Paul Molitor (not in picture) already led off with a single.

[sflnyc]

For comparison, here are the 1969-1975 Aerial and the 1990 Aerial (Thanks Donald), including the 3 city buses!

[sflnyc]

Here is a 1960 Aerial Shot of Comiskey from a little higher angle than the two in the post above.

The buildings in the east beyond the parking lot is still there. Were those buildings removed to build the Dan Ryan Expressway?

And of course, there are buses lined by the sidewalk along 35th Street.

Also to the Chicago area posters, is the Mack Truck building still there today?

[sflnyc]

Another couple of Old Comiskey photos

Picture #1 is the American League dugout at the 1933 All-Star Game
Picture #2 is the exterior of Comiskey during a packed house day game in the 1930's. Just like Yankee Stadium when it was first built, the exterior of Comiskey was a very dark paint color (or unpainted brick?) before being painted white later on.
Picture #3 is an undated picture of a night game
Picture #4 is of the lower deck outfield stands in the 1970's (judging by the clothes being worn by the fans).

[soxnut67]

Here is a 1960 Aerial Shot of Comiskey from a little higher angle than the two in the post above.

The buildings in the east beyond the parking lot is still there. Were those buildings removed to build the Dan Ryan Expressway?

And of course, there are buses lined by the sidewalk along 35th Street.

Also to the Chicago area posters, is the Mack Truck building still there today?

The Mack Truck buikding is gone. It is a parking lot.

Those buildings aren't there either, so I guess they had to be removed for the expy.

Regarding the buses, the visiting team used to get on those buses after the game. It was pretty cool to wait around in the parking lot and check out the players as they boarded the bus.

Another note on the buses: The diamondvision scoreboard used to have the CTA bus race. It is realy the only race I ever liked on a scoreboard. A few years ago, the sox had a 1983 weekend w/ retro uniforms, music and the bus race on the scoreboard--pretty cool!

[hsnterprize]

Two things bother me about the new park: A. The owners kept claiming that the neighborhood they were in was killing them. So what did they do? Built the new park across the street, of course. B. New Comisky was an antique as soon as Camden Yards opened. Whoever designed the place lacked imagination and vision.Here's something to think about...

A) The neighborhood at the time WAS killing them. However, as team owner Jerry Reinsdorf kept going along with his threats to move the team, City of Chicago and State of Illinois legislators acted on fans' wishes to keep the White Sox in Chicago instead of moving to Florida. The New Comiskey Park was originally designed to be built in northwest suburban Addison, Illinois, but Chicago Mayor Richard Daley said at the time he would only support legislation to help fund the New Comiskey Park if it was built across the street from the original ballpark. Once that was set, then the "crusade" to "Save Our Sox" went to Springfield, the state capitol, where then-Governor James Thompson made legislators who owed him "favors" to approve state funding for the ballpark. By the way, the Bridgeport neighborhood (the name of the area immedately west of U.S. Cellular Field), as well as Armor Square (immediately north), and Bronzeville (west of ballpark across the Dan Ryan Expressway) have all gone through a renaissance of renovations since New Comiskey Park/U.S. Cellular Field were erected.

B) While I and many other White Sox fans agree the new ballpark at first was bland, H.O.K. designed that place (just like Oriole Park and subsequent stadia). What happened what H.O.K. presented Jerry Reinsdorf with an Oriole Park-style layout for the new ballpark, and he rejected it thinking fans didn't want it. He was more into things like non-obstructed views, 2 layers of suites between seating levels, and other items that have since been either changed or eliminated.

Just to give all of you an idea of such changes, allow me to present these photos for your review. First, New Comiskey Park after it first opened in 1991...

http://www.minorleagueballparks.com/comisk.jpg

http://stuever.com/SOX1.jpg

http://home.n00.itscom.net/kbt-t/jpg_mlb_al/comiskey9711.jpg

After U.S. Cellular bought the naming rights to New Comiskey in 2002, the deal paid for the renovations that changed this place from a bland, soulless place to a real ballpark. As much as the traditionalists hate sports stadiums being named after corporations, please understand that the Sox had been looking for years for money to renovate New Comiskey Park after slews and slews of complaints. The U.S. Cellular deal was a god send to them, and the naming rights practically gave the stadium something it lacked before...a soul.

Some of the changes included moving lower-level seats closer to the field, changing the seat colors from blue to dark green (BTW...the seats were blue originally because Reinsdorf is from Brooklyn, NY, and he was a HUGE Brooklyn Dodgers fan. He wanted the seats to be Dodger Blue, and he didn't think at first people would have a problem with it. Boy, was he wrong.), adding a "fan deck" in the center-field concourse, a kids' play area above the left-field concourse, and most importantly...cutting off the uppermost top rows of the upper deck and adding an Old Comiskey Park-style roof. These changes took time...they didn't happen in one off-season. But the changes were made, and I think even the hardest critics of the place would appreciate what has happened.


http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/gallery/data/3/medium/P9080027.JPG

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/gallery/data/3/medium/2-16-07_a.JPG

This picture was taken during the off-season when all the lowel-level blue seats were converted to dark green. First, the club (middle) level seats were changed, then all of the upper deck and lower deck seats from dugout to dugout and left-field bleachers were changed. This picture reflects the seats from the dugouts to the outfield being switched.

Here's a link to the company responsible for building the new roof over the stadium. (http://www.steelservicecorp.com/)

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/gallery/data/3/medium/P6250026.JPG

Note the "Fundamentals" deck above the left field seats. That was a new addition to the park that U.S. Cellular paid for. It's a play area that's run by White Sox coaches, and kids attending games can learn how to hit, run, field, and throw from big league coaches. I've read in other cities' papers how that was not only a good idea for our place, but the authors suggest their local teams put in something like this in their home stadium.

Finally, if you want more pictures of Old Comiskey Park, here's a link to the internet's only tribute to the place. (http://www.flyingsock.com/OldComiskey/index.html) If you search the connecting site, WhiteSoxInteractive.com, you'll also find much better pictures of U.S. Cellular Field and Old Comiskey Park than what you'll find on Google, Yahoo, or other search engines.

[soxnut67]

hsnterprise: I'm glad you're putting out the passion for our Sox. More people need to be educated on our ballpark. I'm tired of the bashing it gets.

If anyone has been there lately, they'd have to be out of their minds to have the same opinion of it after the renovations as they had before. But, here is one person who comes to mind:http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=12107

[hsnterprize]

Some more stuff...

A big reason why the upper deck ended up so HIGH in the new place was because when the city of Chicago's deal I wrote about in my last post went through, city grid rules required the stadium not extend over the street. The UD was supposed to be pushed BACK if the stadium was built in Addison. Instead, because of the location and rules, the UD had to be pushed UP. And that's why it was and is as steep as it is. However, I believe it the stadium were facing downtown Chicago, that wouldn't be an issue. Fans sitting up there would not only have the field to look at, but also the skyline. According the Sox, the ballpark was built to face away from downtown because of the winds blowing in off Lake Michigan. You may see things blowing on the field now, but it would've been worse if the park was facing towards the downtown area.

If you go up the ramps outside the stadium, though, and look to the north, you'll see some great views of the downtown skyline...including the Sears Tower in the distance. I'll post pictures of that later.

In the meantime, while I and other Sox fans miss Old Comiskey Park...those of us who are from here pretty much know the place was beyond repair. Unlike Wrigley Field and the Cubs, the Sox and Old Comiskey weren't owned by a major media company (Tribune Company) that spent a lot of money towards stadium renovations. Despite Wrigley's old-time charm, there is netting underneath the upper deck to catch falling concrete, the mens bathrooms reek of urine since there are troughs instead of toilets and urinals, and the park has been slowly "selling out" its charm to the highest bidder. I'll elaborate more on that later...that's off topic. Still, enjoy Old Comiskey as we did. But don't let the hype over the Cell fool you...it's a great baseball place. It's not a tourist attraction like so many other ballparks across the country, but it's a great place both inside and out to watch baseball. And that's all we White Sox fans want.

[hsnterprize]

hsnterprise: I'm glad you're putting out the passion for our Sox. More people need to be educated on our ballpark. I'm tired of the bashing it gets.

If anyone has been there lately, they'd have to be out of their minds to have the same opinion of it after the renovations as they had before. But, here is one person who comes to mind:http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=12107I've already read that author's drivel. Although I respect one's right to their opinion (not to mention, I'm sort of a fan of American Spectator), she's just writing the same crap that's been said about the park for years. And if there's one thing about our ballpark I'm tired of (and you can partially blame the Chicago Tribune for this)...it's that notion that our place has to be a "South Side of Chicago version of Wrigley Field" in order to be liked. I bashed New Comiskey like other critics. However, I also bashed Reinsdorf for his refusal to admit until years ago he was wrong about the New Comiskey Park design, and other gaffes. When the renovations happened, I became one of the park's biggest fans. Yes...other places in America were designed much better, and I'll give all the credit in the world for it. But too many people don't know about our place other than what they're being told by press and critics. And unfortunately, their perceptions of the ballpark and surrounding areas are as wrong as a Cubs' World Series winning prediction.

[soxnut67]

[QUOTE=hsnterprize;1029917]Some more stuff...

A big reason why the upper deck ended up so HIGH in the new place was because when the city of Chicago's deal I wrote about in my last post went through, city grid rules required the stadium not extend over the street. The UD was supposed to be pushed BACK if the stadium was built in Addison. Instead, because of the location and rules, the UD had to be pushed UP. And that's why it was and is as steep as it is. However, I believe it the stadium were facing downtown Chicago, that wouldn't be an issue. Fans sitting up there would not only have the field to look at, but also the skyline. According the Sox, the ballpark was built to face away from downtown because of the winds blowing in off Lake Michigan. You may see things blowing on the field now, but it would've been worse if the park was facing towards the downtown area.

If you go up the ramps outside the stadium, though, and look to the north, you'll see some great views of the downtown skyline...including the Sears Tower in the distance. I'll post pictures of that later.

In the meantime, while I and other Sox fans miss Old Comiskey Park...those of us who are from here pretty much know the place was beyond repair. Unlike Wrigley Field and the Cubs, the Sox and Old Comiskey weren't owned by a major media company (Tribune Company) that spent a lot of money towards stadium renovations. Despite Wrigley's old-time charm, there is netting underneath the upper deck to catch falling concrete, the mens bathrooms reek of urine since there are troughs instead of toilets and urinals, and the park has been slowly "selling out" its charm to the highest bidder. I'll elaborate more on that later...that's off topic. Still, enjoy Old Comiskey as we did. But don't let the hype over the Cell fool you...it's a great baseball place. It's not a tourist attraction like so many other ballparks across the country, but it's a great place both inside and out to watch baseball. And that's all we White Sox fans want.[/QUOTE


Regarding the upper deck: Do you know if there is any measured data that compares the upper decks of all the new parks built since New Comiskey? I know that the UD is high, but, I can't see it being that much differnet to most of the new parks. I was at PETCO a few years ago and didn't see that much of a difference.

[hsnterprize]

Regarding the upper deck: Do you know if there is any measured data that compares the upper decks of all the new parks built since New Comiskey? I know that the UD is high, but, I can't see it being that much differnet to most of the new parks. I was at PETCO a few years ago and didn't see that much of a difference.

I found this on the "Find Articles" website. I'll copy a part of the piece for this discussion, but I'll also post the link to the whole thing to put everything I'm saying into concext...

Among the primary reasons invariably cited by Sox fans for Comiskey Park's low attendance are the uncomfortable slope and the excessive distance from the field of the stadium's 19,000 upper deck seats. These are indeed problematic, but the reality is that Comiskey Park's upper deck is not much different from its more popular successors in Baltimore, Cleveland, Arlington (Texas) and Denver.5 The 35degree slope of Comiskey's upper deck is uncomfortable and has not been emulated in subsequent stadiums, which have tended to keep their upper deck seating angle between 31-32 degrees. But compared to Comiskey Park, the distance from the upper deck to the playing field is actually greater in Arlington and Denver, comparable in Cleveland and only slightly better in Baltimore. However, these stadiums have not received the hometown opprobrium to which Comiskey Park has been subject.

Here's the entire article... (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3681/is_199612/ai_n8747959)

Incidentally, the author of the piece, Phillip Bess, was (I don't know if he still is) associated with an architectural firm called, "Thursday Architects", and his firm submitted a model to what the New Comiskey Park should've looked like. According to Bess and his website, the model was quickly rejected because it lacked the financial incentives the accepted design of New Comiskey would've offered.

Here's a link to Bess' website. (http://64.143.51.61/) It's a few years old, so I don't know how current everything still is. But many of the topics discussed on it are just as relevant today as they were back in the 90's when just about every major league-level city was building a new stadium. Think of this as a local version of the popular "Field Of Schemes" site.

[sflnyc]

Good information.

It's always interesting to hear the details of what goes on/went on at a stadium by the local fans familiar with the politics, etc. of that area.

Although this is an Old Comiskey thread, here is a picture of the first pitch from the Opening of Comiskey II on 4.18.91 against Detroit (Frank Tanana to Tony Phillips).

[POLO GROUNDS 1957]

hsnterprise: I'm glad you're putting out the passion for our Sox. More people need to be educated on our ballpark. I'm tired of the bashing it gets.

If anyone has been there lately, they'd have to be out of their minds to have the same opinion of it after the renovations as they had before. But, here is one person who comes to mind:http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=12107


Well i am sorry that you dont like some of the opinions of other people that cant stand or dislike your new white sox ballpark. you have the right of a opinion to like the ballpark just like people like me have the right to Hate or dislike the stadium. and i have been there back in 1991 to base a opinion on the stadium.and even since the stadium has had some minor renovations to it since 1991 its still the same stadium. and it ranks near the bottom of the current stadiums which is my opinion and others opinion.And as far as i am concerned there is only 1 ballpark in chicago left Wrigley Field.

[POLO GROUNDS 1957]

Here is a photo that i took of the ticket office outside of the original comiskey park in 1987.

[POLO GROUNDS 1957]

Does anyone recall or was at the Texas game that was rained out in august of 1990. it was one of the longest rain delays ever. the white sox after a while started to give out free hot dogs and drinks to the fans that stayed there for the rain delay.i was there for that weekend the saturday game was on national tv .

[Elvis]

Can you all please use PM for this instead of cluttering this thread up?

[POLO GROUNDS 1957]

Here is another photo from 1987 taken looking across of old comiskey park. you are looking at the famous bar McCUDDYS. Babe Ruth use to go there alot. the photo was taken at comiskey park looking across the street.

[nymdan]

Can you all please use PM for this instead of cluttering this thread up?

I deleted all of the insults and back and forth nonsense. Hopefully it's less cluttered now.

[POLO GROUNDS 1957]

Here is another photo taken outside of the ballpark behind were the scoreboard was located. you are looking at the outside of the right field stands.

[Gary Dunaier]

Here is another photo from 1987 taken looking across of old comiskey park. you are looking at the famous bar McCUDDYS. Babe Ruth use to go there alot. the photo was taken at comiskey park looking across the street.
And in the background... the Senior Citizens' home. If they only knew what was in store for them four years later... (well three years if you include the construction)

[hsnterprize]

Something about McCuddy's...many Sox fans over the years have said that there were days when the White Sox and Yankees would play double-headers at Old Comiskey, and Babe Ruth would go to McCuddy's and "tip a few" in between games. A lot of current fans want to see a modern version of McCuddy's rebuilt either in or near the ballpark.

There was also some controversy with that senior citizens' home in another photo. From what I've heard, when Reinsdorf was clearing out the land for the new ballpark, he obviously met opposition from residents who were being forced to move away...until they got their checks. There was some sort of ordinance (I'm not sure if it's still in existence) that was supposed to keep a certain amount of space between the new ballpark and that building. Somehow, that was overlooked. And Mayor Richard M. Daley, son of legendary Chicago Mayor Richard J. Daley, overlooked that rule since he's a HUGE White Sox fan.

Here's a link to a slideshow about Old Comiskey. (http://ballparks.phanfare.com/album/...ageID=20837583) To access this, scroll to the bottom of the screen, click "slideshow", and turn up your speakers. I think you'd enjoy it.

[soxfan1978]

Well i am sorry that you dont like some of the opinions of other people that cant stand or dislike your new white sox ballpark. you have the right of a opinion to like the ballpark just like people like me have the right to Hate or dislike the stadium. and i have been there back in 1991 to base a opinion on the stadium.and even since the stadium has had some minor renovations to it since 1991 its still the same stadium. and it ranks near the bottom of the current stadiums which is my opinion and others opinion.And as far as i am concerned there is only 1 ballpark in chicago left Wrigley Field.

well you have the right to like or dislike a stadium,but the problem with your opinion is it based on a stadium that really doesn't exist anymore."new comiskey park" and "u.s. cellular field" aren't the same park.(and those renovations were more than "minor" by the way) if you're in chicago next season,visit the white sox park(meaning actually go INTO THE PARK not WALK AROUND THE EXTERIOR OF THE PARK :laugh :laugh :laugh) and base your opinion off of how it is now,not how it was 16 years ago.

and as far as wrigley field goes...nice looking park,but not exactly ideal for watching a baseball game it.very uncomfortable venue IMHO...not to mention the fact that it's charm is being COMPROMISED little by little,piece by piece(bud light bleachers......LMAO!!!)..give me the cell anyday..

[POLO GROUNDS 1957]

Here is a great photo showing the original comiskey park. you can see the words spelled out on the stadiums roof.

[hsnterprize]

Here is a great photo showing the original comiskey park. you can see the words spelled out on the stadiums roof.Excellent picture. I was actually looking for a photo like that. I believe that was taken sometime between the 1930's and '40's...right? By the way...where'd you find that photo?

[POLO GROUNDS 1957]

Excellent picture. I was actually looking for a photo like that. I believe that was taken sometime between the 1930's and '40's...right? By the way...where'd you find that photo?

I got that photo from a local sports show years ago. i have that photo and other items posted on my Old Comiskey Park Website.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/comiskeypark1910

[MattD1972]

In August 1990, I went to Chicago for the express purpose of getting to old Comiskey before it met the wrecking ball. I had been a Sox fan through the good graces of Chicagoland relatives for 7 years before this, but had never gone to Comiskey. It was also a personal watershed, as it was my first time itraveling alone to/from Chicago, and just 1 week before I started college.
I went to the first two games of a crucial 3-game series against Oakland. During the first game (pictures attached), Chicago crushed the A's 11-1, with Jack McDowell firmly in control the whole way, and Fisk and Sosa hitting home runs (Sosa's was in the upper deck right over me). I still love looking at these pictures 17 years later. I really, really wish more parks had an open-to-anyone area right in the outfield fence.
The next night's game was closer, but the Sox pulled that one out as well, with I didn't bring a camera, but it was interesting in that I was sold a seat that had been removed. Being 17 and willing to sit on concrete made it less of a big deal at the time.
I didn't get back to Chicago for a game until 2004. I was pleasantly surprised by the Cell, having been quite ready to hate it. I'll post the pics of my son's first big league game over in the US Cellular forum.

[Yoda]

Beautiful pictures here.


Wish they had digital cameras back then...

[YankeeFanUK]

i went to a 3 game series with the A`s at Old Comiskey back in 89...loved the place and was sorry to see it go..i much preferred it to Wrigley

[Yoda]

i went to a 3 game series with the A`s at Old Comiskey back in 89...loved the place and was sorry to see it go..i much preferred it to Wrigley

From the way you talk about Wrigley I bet you'd prefer a high colonic over Wrigley.

[YankeeFanUK]

From the way you talk about Wrigley I bet you'd prefer a high colonic over Wrigley.

probably...do you prefer that place on the North Side over Old Comiskey ?

[Yoda]

probably...do you prefer that place on the North Side over Old Comiskey ?

Not at all, but to be fair I only have vague memories of Old Comiskey.

[YankeeFanUK]

btw Yoda, it makes a pleasant change to find a Sox fan that has anything nice to say about Wrigley/Cubs..every Sox fan ive met ( and ive met a sh*t load ) hate the place, wouldnt step foot in it and HATE the Cubs/Cub fans with a vengeance..kudos young man

[Yoda]

Oh I just hate the typical frat-boy fans.


I used to be one of those hateful meatheads.

[YankeeFanUK]

i met more hatefull meatheads on the North Side...ive been to Old Comiskey & the Cell a total of 12 times...everytime wore my Yanks cap and other than some freindly banter i got on really well with everyone i met..went to Wrigley for 3 games..wore my Yanks cap and took a load of sh*t...very abusive to me and my wife and even threw beer at us...forgive me if my feelings of meatheads seems to be towards the clark & Addison crew

[Yoda]

Give them benders hell!


Glad you've had enough good times to come back the Southside, though.

[YankeeFanUK]

i love Chicago ( second fave city ) and enjoy going to see the Yanks play at the Cell...but i`ll never venture over to Wrigleyville again ( unless its when they tear the place down..i`ll be there with a video camera and a big grin )

[DaBigMotor]

The current white sox stadium is a dump its just as bad as the dump that the detroit tigers play in these days.

With those who are lead by their hearts, and not their heads, new = ugly or bad.

How could you POSSIBLY know if Comerica park is a "dump" if you've never been there? And HOW, exactly, does a brand new stadium become a dump while still basically new?

In a recent survey, it was voted the fourth best fan experience in the nation among baseball fans.

Now Tiger Stadium? Loved it. Cried when it was closed, but, like old Comiskey, THAT was a dump. And I know, because, unlike some, I have been to BOTH Detroit stadiums.

I'm glad those two old dumps are both gone.

The new parks are great!

[YankeeFanUK]

New Comiskey was not good...bland, uninteresting, upper deck was too steep etc BUT all the alterations have made the Cell a really great place to see a game...one note..if you have`nt been to any park in question then you cant really make an honest judgement/opinion

[JWB13]

i met more hatefull meatheads on the North Side...ive been to Old Comiskey & the Cell a total of 12 times...everytime wore my Yanks cap and other than some freindly banter i got on really well with everyone i met..went to Wrigley for 3 games..wore my Yanks cap and took a load of sh*t...very abusive to me and my wife and even threw beer at us...forgive me if my feelings of meatheads seems to be towards the clark & Addison crew

Being a Cards fan at Wrigley, I know exactly how you feel concerning the beer part ;)

[Mario Mendoza...HOF Lock]

1990
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3256/2503500083_314b54dd25_o.jpg

A larger closeup of a pic posted earlier
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2216/2504333394_5491979cfc_o.jpg

1959 WS from pressbox
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2301/2504334062_5144a29e4e_o.jpg

Very early game at the stadium
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3238/2503502143_30cd80de49_o.jpg

The infamous Disco Demolition Night 1979
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3086/2503394061_e13334a22a_o.jpg

Unknown Boston player or year
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2057/2503393363_85d7958977_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2419/2503392511_7c6bb782fd_o.jpg

Bill Veeck
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3269/2503391793_37ce12c1be_o.jpg

Probably late 30's/early 40's
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2130/2504223430_0ebbf559a1_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2202/2503389901_d29267716d_o.jpg

[Mario Mendoza...HOF Lock]

'59 WS
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3292/2504221722_69cba4def8_o.jpg

3 from 1919
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3135/2504220990_c2f79febae_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3005/2504220892_34e4fc0ec2_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2022/2503388097_1d39a35b28_o.jpg

After 17 years, apparently Comiskey was showing it's age, as evidenced in these 4 pics from an architectural firm involved in the renovations. I assume the last 3 are from under the grandstand.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3147/2503387531_b9dfdeaf37_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3157/2503387701_104e28c940_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3252/2504220514_1042db0742_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3259/2504220672_cd26ef8467_o.jpg

Late 50's. Dig the guy with the horn.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3142/2503387357_22388802bb_o.jpg

[Philtration]

I loved old Comiskey Park.
The outside was not ugly but they should have removed the white paint to uncover the brick that was hidden underneath.
When Comiskey was built is was called “The Baseball Palace of The World” and that is just what it was.
For a park that could hold over 50,000 fans you were never far away from the field. One of my favorite views was from the first row of the upper deck including the outfield. You looked right down on the field.
Two of my favorite features of the parks architecture were the arched openings along the back wall of the park and the picnic area below the left field stands.
The arches gave it an open air feel and in the left field stands you could see the trees just outside the park. Because the arches were on all sides of the park including beneath the stands the park was never dark or gloomy.
The picnic area was unique to Comiskey. You could sit there and look out onto the field with nothing separating you from standing on the playing field but a wire screen.
I remember being there when the White Sox were playing Boston and Jim Rice chased a ball that was hit right up to where I was standing against the screen. He was no more than a foot away from me when he picked it up and as he threw the ball back towards the cut off man and I could here him grunt as he threw it and sweat flew from his head.
One of the coolest views of a game that I have ever had.
A great ballpark.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y220/phil62/baseball%20site/beerspill.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y220/phil62/baseball%20site/Comiskeyarch.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y220/phil62/baseball%20site/fifties.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y220/phil62/baseball%20site/joejacksoninsweater-color.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y220/phil62/baseball%20site/fifties5.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y220/phil62/baseball%20site/comiskparkold.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y220/phil62/baseball%20site/NFox_bunt.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y220/phil62/baseball%20site/bp033d.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y220/phil62/baseball%20site/Comiskey_501a.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y220/phil62/baseball%20site/Comiskey_102.jpg

[Philtration]

A few more great views of Comiskey..

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y220/phil62/baseball%20site/Comiskey_1967.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y220/phil62/baseball%20site/arch6.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y220/phil62/baseball%20site/arch11.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y220/phil62/baseball%20site/celebration2.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y220/phil62/baseball%20site/celebration5.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y220/phil62/baseball%20site/celebration9.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y220/phil62/baseball%20site/celebration12.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y220/phil62/baseball%20site/comiskey13.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y220/phil62/baseball%20site/comiskey21.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y220/phil62/baseball%20site/comiskey23.jpg

[Philtration]

And these including a very sad one..

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y220/phil62/baseball%20site/w-sox-1972-scorebook-a.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y220/phil62/baseball%20site/Soxparkbrick.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y220/phil62/baseball%20site/comiskey26.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y220/phil62/baseball%20site/comiskey28.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y220/phil62/baseball%20site/comiskey29.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y220/phil62/baseball%20site/comiskey31.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y220/phil62/baseball%20site/comiskey40.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y220/phil62/baseball%20site/comiskey47.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y220/phil62/baseball%20site/lastgame1.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y220/phil62/baseball%20site/destruction.jpg

[Yoda]

concourse pics from Comiskey?

:applaud:

[Philtration]

The trees in the distance marks where the left field grandstands once stood.
You can see those same trees through the arches in the old pics.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y220/phil62/baseball%20site/ComiskeyPark317181992.jpg

[Philtration]

concourse pics from Comiskey?

:applaud:

Nice eh?
I had a lot of great times in that old place.

[Mario Mendoza...HOF Lock]

Love those color pics Philtration:thumbsup:

[jimmyjimjimz]

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y220/phil62/baseball%20site/beerspill.jpg

Why are they throwing their drink on that guy?

just don't show this picture to Rev. Al. He'll say that he person who threw the drink was a racist and should be in jail.

[alpineinc]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3256/2503500083_314b54dd25_o.jpg

This photo really shows the very steep upper deck at the newer park.

[Yoda]

Why are they throwing their drink on that guy?

just don't show this picture to Rev. Al. He'll say that he person who threw the drink was a racist and should be in jail.


Are you joking?

[hsnterprize]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3256/2503500083_314b54dd25_o.jpg

This photo really shows the very steep upper deck at the newer park.The UD at the new ballpark is pretty steep...and there's an interesting story as to why.

When Chicago Mayor Richard M. Daley signed his approval to help get funding for new Comiskey Park, he signed that approval with the condition that the stadium would be built next to Old Comiskey Park. The new ballpark was originally supposed to be built in suburban Addison, Illinois. Remember...Sox owner Jerry Reinsdorf was threatening to move the team to St. Petersburg, Florida if he didn't get the funding he was looking for to get a new stadium. So when Mayor Daley put in his approval to help Jerry get that money, he did so with a "string" attached.

There are strict building codes within the City of Chicago. And the upper deck design of the new ballpark would've actually violated those codes by stretching over the street boundaries (or whatever boundaries that were negotiated at the time). So, in order to build the ballpark within city code, the upper deck was built UP instead of OUT. And that's why the UD at New Comiskey Park was and still is so steep. However, the UD's at subsequent stadia are maybe a degree or 2 less steep than New Comiskey's, but those UD's face "eye-candy" type tourist attractions like downtown skylines, mountains, or other place where people can look out at when the action on the field isn't too favorable. If New Comiskey Park was built to face downtown Chicago, there wouldn't have been as many complaints about the UD as there was because people could see the Sears Tower and other Chicago skyscrapers from their UD seats.

[Chevy114]

The UD at the new ballpark is pretty steep...and there's an interesting story as to why.

When Chicago Mayor Richard M. Daley signed his approval to help get funding for new Comiskey Park, he signed that approval with the condition that the stadium would be built next to Old Comiskey Park. The new ballpark was originally supposed to be built in suburban Addison, Illinois. Remember...Sox owner Jerry Reinsdorf was threatening to move the team to St. Petersburg, Florida if he didn't get the funding he was looking for to get a new stadium. So when Mayor Daley put in his approval to help Jerry get that money, he did so with a "string" attached.

There are strict building codes within the City of Chicago. And the upper deck design of the new ballpark would've actually violated those codes by stretching over the street boundaries (or whatever boundaries that were negotiated at the time). So, in order to build the ballpark within city code, the upper deck was built UP instead of OUT. And that's why the UD at New Comiskey Park was and still is so steep. However, the UD's at subsequent stadia are maybe a degree or 2 less steep than New Comiskey's, but those UD's face "eye-candy" type tourist attractions like downtown skylines, mountains, or other place where people can look out at when the action on the field isn't too favorable. If New Comiskey Park was built to face downtown Chicago, there wouldn't have been as many complaints about the UD as there was because people could see the Sears Tower and other Chicago skyscrapers from their UD seats.



Thats a cool story! I heard they had to build cinderllas castle at disney world at an angle and draw windows smaller at the top so it looks bigger than it is. Because florida law says if a building is a certain hight you have to put a red blinking light on it so planes wont hit it at night. That has nothing to do with baseball but i figure its a similar story.

P.S. That picture looks like someone let go or knocked over their beer on the white sox player.

[YankeeFanUK]

Why are they throwing their drink on that guy?

just don't show this picture to Rev. Al. He'll say that he person who threw the drink was a racist and should be in jail.

nobody is throwing the drink...they are reaching for a HR ball and someone knocked the drink/spilled it

[Gary Dunaier]

There are strict building codes within the City of Chicago. And the upper deck design of the new ballpark would've actually violated those codes by stretching over the street boundaries (or whatever boundaries that were negotiated at the time). So, in order to build the ballpark within city code, the upper deck was built UP instead of OUT. And that's why the UD at New Comiskey Park was and still is so steep.

If the ballpark had faced towards downtown, the upper deck stands would have been over the parking area, not the street. In that situation, would they have been able to build out, over the parking area, or would the parking area still be considered "street boundaries" in the eyes of the Chicago building codes?

[vtbub]

The unknown Red Sox player looks like Dom Dimaggio.

[J.R.]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3256/2503500083_314b54dd25_o.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y220/phil62/baseball%20site/bp033d.jpg

I can't fathom how anyone in the Sox organization felt it was a good idea to tear that place down. None of the new parks comes close to rivaling that seating arrangement. Sure, the seats in the corners sucked, but 50k seats that close to the field was awesome.

[hsnterprize]

If the ballpark had faced towards downtown, the upper deck stands would have been over the parking area, not the street. In that situation, would they have been able to build out, over the parking area, or would the parking area still be considered "street boundaries" in the eyes of the Chicago building codes? I'm thinking the park would've been able to be built out if they turned the place to face downtown. There's PLENTY of space in the parking area where the UD could've been built with less steepness.

[hsnterprize]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3256/2503500083_314b54dd25_o.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y220/phil62/baseball%20site/bp033d.jpg

I can't fathom how anyone in the Sox organization felt it was a good idea to tear that place down. None of the new parks comes close to rivaling that seating arrangement. Sure, the seats in the corners sucked, but 50k seats that close to the field was awesome.

I can answer that question pretty easily...the White Sox didn't have the MONEY to keep that place up. Unlike the Cubs, who are owned my a multi-BILLION dollar media company, the White Sox didn't have (and still don't) have as much capital as their north-side counterparts. Jerry Reinsdorf tried to renovate the place as much as he could, but he decided the best thing to do was get a new stadium. And even though it's not nationally recognized like Oriole Park is, just about every owner pro sports used the same tactics Jerry did...threaten local fans and government bodies to either fork over money to get a new place, or he's leaving.

Hey...even at Wrigley, there's a lot of talk about that place 1060 West Addison Street needing a massive renovation. And what does it take to renovate such a place...MONEY!!!!! The biggest debate going on right now as far as the sale of Wrigley Field and the Cubs is concerned is where the renovation money is going to come from...a private ownership group, or a state-run ownership agency (the Illinois Sports Facilities Authority).

[six4three]

Hey...even at Wrigley, there's a lot of talk about that place 1601 West Addison Street needing a massive renovation.

1060 West Addison.

As any fan of The Blues Brothers can tell you.... :P

[jimmyjimjimz]

Are you joking?

No, I'm not joking. There's no black people in the crowd by there, so you gotta assume a white guy threw a drink on a black guy, and Al Sharpton is gonna come out and say he's outraged, the person who threw the drink should be in jail, and he should have to apologize. That's how Al Sharpton is. Don Imus should've never been fired.

[Yoda]

1060 West Addison.

As any fan of The Blues Brothers can tell you.... :P

I've heard a crazy rumor from different people that they cut out a line that was to follow that went

"why would they look for us there, they don't know we're sox fans?"

[alpineinc]

No, I'm not joking. There's no black people in the crowd by there, so you gotta assume a white guy threw a drink on a black guy, and Al Sharpton is gonna come out and say he's outraged, the person who threw the drink should be in jail, and he should have to apologize. That's how Al Sharpton is. Don Imus should've never been fired.

Psychotic rant aside, that is Al Smith from the 1959 World Series in one of the most famous baseball photos ever, watching a Charlie Neal home run sail over the fence, and of course the fan sacrificed his beer in pursuit of the prize.

You can answer yourself why Al Sharpton as a 5 year old child in Brooklyn in 1959 would be involved with a spilled beer at the World Series, in Chicago no less. And trying to engage someone in a contemporary debate on racism is well beyond the scope of this board.

Not sure why you pretend to be a little crazy every few months, but it just makes everyone put you on ignore again. At over 700 posts, you've been around for a while now; I know you can bring something better to the table.

[Mario Mendoza...HOF Lock]

No, I'm not joking. There's no black people in the crowd by there, so you gotta assume a white guy threw a drink on a black guy, and Al Sharpton is gonna come out and say he's outraged, the person who threw the drink should be in jail, and he should have to apologize. That's how Al Sharpton is. Don Imus should've never been fired.

Jimz, I heard that Sharpton saw the photo on Baseball-Fever and is planning a march on Chicago tomorrow at 2. It'll be on all the news channels. You can see it if mommy picks you up from pre-school in time.

[alpineinc]

Back on topic...

You think the Sox/Cubs rivalry is crazy now, this first pic from the 1912 City Series has Cubs players in the foreground ready for action as the field burns!
http://memory.loc.gov/ndlpcoop/ichicdn/s0098/s009804.jpg

Same game - with peace restored?
http://memory.loc.gov/ndlpcoop/ichicdn/s0098/s009805.jpg
http://memory.loc.gov/ndlpcoop/ichicdn/s0098/s009828.jpg

1913 Sox/Cubs game, looks like the Sox dugout - with graffiti on the dugout walls?! (Cub looks like Johnny Evers)
http://memory.loc.gov/ndlpcoop/ichicdn/s0588/s058805.jpg

1914
http://memory.loc.gov/ndlpcoop/ichicdn/s0600/s060033.jpg

1916 Opening Day
http://memory.loc.gov/ndlpcoop/ichicdn/s0606/s060615.jpg

1918 - Yankee John Hummel in the grandstand - seats don't look too sturdy, do they!
http://memory.loc.gov/ndlpcoop/ichicdn/s0615/s061590.jpg

1926
http://memory.loc.gov/ndlpcoop/ichicdn/s0661/s066183.jpg

Hal Totten, Sox/Cubs announcer, at press row with lady friend, 1927
http://memory.loc.gov/ndlpcoop/ichicdn/n0839/n083948.jpg

How about Lucky Lindy paying a visit to Comiskey in 1927!
http://memory.loc.gov/ndlpcoop/ichicdn/n0838/n083867.jpg

[jimmyjimjimz]

Jimz, I heard that Sharpton saw the photo on Baseball-Fever and is planning a march on Chicago tomorrow at 2. It'll be on all the news channels. You can see it if mommy picks you up from pre-school in time.

pre-school?

dude, I'm 25 years old.

I'm just trying to be funny, ok?

sometimes I'm actually serious, but most of the time I'm trying to be funny. And, yeah, most of my jokes bomb. I realize that. Oh well.

[xtimx]

Not sure why you pretend to be a little crazy every few months, but it just makes everyone put you on ignore again. At over 700 posts, you've been around for a while now; I know you can bring something better to the table.

wait wait wait, theres an ignore option on this board? i need to 86 that dude asap, his posts give me a migraine.

[xtimx]

1060 West Addison.

As any fan of The Blues Brothers can tell you.... :P

theres nothing i hate more than illinois nazis.

[YankeeStadium1923]

I can answer that question pretty easily...the White Sox didn't have the MONEY to keep that place up. Unlike the Cubs, who are owned my a multi-BILLION dollar media company, the White Sox didn't have (and still don't) have as much capital as their north-side counterparts. Jerry Reinsdorf tried to renovate the place as much as he could, but he decided the best thing to do was get a new stadium. And even though it's not nationally recognized like Oriole Park is, just about every owner pro sports used the same tactics Jerry did...threaten local fans and government bodies to either fork over money to get a new place, or he's leaving.

Hey...even at Wrigley, there's a lot of talk about that place 1060 West Addison Street needing a massive renovation. And what does it take to renovate such a place...MONEY!!!!! The biggest debate going on right now as far as the sale of Wrigley Field and the Cubs is concerned is where the renovation money is going to come from...a private ownership group, or a state-run ownership agency (the Illinois Sports Facilities Authority).
Just out of Curiosity.....

Would do you think paid to have new Comiskey Park and the United Center built?

And who owns the Chicago Bulls and Chicago Whitesox?

[Chevy114]

Just out of Curiosity.....

Would do you think paid to have new Comiskey Park and the United Center built?

And who owns the Chicago Bulls and Chicago Whitesox?

He probably didn't pay too much if he threatened to move his team to tampa if the state didn't help pay for the white sox stadium.

[Philtration]

Just out of Curiosity.....

Would do you think paid to have new Comiskey Park and the United Center built?

And who owns the Chicago Bulls and Chicago Whitesox?
The taxpayers of Illinois paid for U.S. Cellular after Reinsdorf threatened to move the team to Tampa. He had no attachment to Comiskey and wanted it gone. It was he who insisted on all the things that made the new park depressing. A lot of money has been spent on fixing his dumb ideas ever since. He also pulled a lot of White Sox games off of free TV to jump-start his pay channel called Sports Vision.
He bitched and complained that he did not want the Public High School championship game played at U.S. Cellular even though it is the people that own the park.
He got his way and that did not sit well with a lot of people here.

On top of that Reinsdorf was a major player in the lockout season even though his team looked like they were headed to the World Series. He also ripped apart one of the greatest teams in NBA history for no other reason than his own arrogance.
He wanted to prove that it was he, along with his stooge Jerry Krause that made the Bulls and not Michael Jordan. Jordan was already with the Bulls when these ass clowns showed up and they resented that every single moment even when they were winning championships. They could not wait to break that team up to show that they were the masterminds behind it all and now look at them.
Reinsdorf is not a popular guy in Chicago.

The Chicago Blackhawks owner Bill Wirtz paid for half of the United Center.
Both stadiums replaced two of the best venues in the country and will never compare to the history and excitement that went on at the old buildings.

[Chevy114]

When did he dismantel the bulls? After MJ's 2nd retirement? I remember kraus and Jordan having issues, but I forget why.

Also Chicago stadium was amazing, what all arenas should strive to be! Now people build bland arenas on the outside and all the good stuff on the inside.

[Yoda]

I don't know much about the NBA but I think part of the Bulls downfall had to do with Phil Jackson and his want for a yearly contract soap opera.

[Chevy114]

I don't know much about the NBA but I think part of the Bulls downfall had to do with Phil Jackson and his want for a yearly contract soap opera.

Im not a fan of it, but its hard to tell a coach who won 6 championships in an 8 year span he needs to play by all the rules.

[Philtration]

When did he dismantel the bulls? After MJ's 2nd retirement? I remember kraus and Jordan having issues, but I forget why.

Also Chicago stadium was amazing, what all arenas should strive to be! Now people build bland arenas on the outside and all the good stuff on the inside.

They broke up the team after the 2nd three-peat.
They made it clear that Jordan, Scottie Pippin and Phil Jackson's services were no longer needed during the 1998 season even though they were still the best team in the NBA.
Krause had his fishing buddy Tim Floyd just waiting for the coaching job and he got it. What a huge screw up. They had at least one more title in them and probably more.

Jackson was not complaining about his money. The Bulls were dismissing him as nothing as if just anyone could have gotten Dennis Rodman to stay focused and play a team game. They went out of their way to slap him down every chance they got even when he was winning every year.
When Jordan made it known that if Jackson was let go that he would retire Krause and Reinsdorf said, “Go ahead” and that is what he did. They could not wait to build a team that did not include their inherited golden goose and never offered him a spot with the team.

The Chicago Stadium was awesome.
It was great during a Bulls game but when the Blackhawks had Bobby Hull, Stan Makita and Tony Esposito and were the hottest ticket in town it was the most electrifying arena in the country.
The Bulls won their first three titles there and the last three at the United Center.
Now, like Comiskey, it is just another parking lot thanks to Reinsdorf. He is a Brooklyn guy and places like Comiskey Park and the Chicago Stadium had no meaning for him at all.

[Chevy114]

They broke up the team after the 2nd three-peat.
They made it clear that Jordan, Scottie Pippin and Phil Jackson's services were no longer needed during the 1998 season even though they were still the best team in the NBA.
Krause had his fishing buddy Tim Floyd just waiting for the coaching job and he got it. What a huge screw up. They had at least one more title in them and probably more.

Jackson was not complaining about his money. The Bulls were dismissing him as nothing as if just anyone could have gotten Dennis Rodman to stay focused and play a team game. They went out of their way to slap him down every chance they got even when he was winning every year.
When Jordan made it known that if Jackson was let go that he would retire Krause and Reinsdorf said, “Go ahead” and that is what he did. They could not wait to build a team that did not include their inherited golden goose and never offered him a spot with the team.

The Chicago Stadium was awesome.
It was great during a Bulls game but when the Blackhawks had Bobby Hull, Stan Makita and Tony Esposito and were the hottest ticket in town it was the most electrifying arena in the country.
The Bulls won their first three titles there and the last three at the United Center.
Now, like Comiskey, it is just another parking lot thanks to Reinsdorf. He is a Brooklyn guy and places like Comiskey Park and the Chicago Stadium had no meaning for him at all.

So what was their reasoning, they thought they were the reason the bulls were winning, not the players and the coaches? I miss the days when owners would just sit back and let their players and coaches do their job. Now there are a handfull of owners that I see at every game making a big scene, what a joke!

[Philtration]

So what was their reasoning, they thought they were the reason the bulls were winning, not the players and the coaches? I miss the days when owners would just sit back and let their players and coaches do their job. Now there are a handfull of owners that I see at every game making a big scene, what a joke!

That is exactly what it was and they came right out and said so.
Krause told reporters "Players and coaches don't win championships. Organizations win championships"
He also said "We do not want to end up like the Boston Celtics did after their glory years"
The Bulls were winning rings left and right and were treated like a traveling rock show all over the country. They sold out every arena that they played in and their merchandise outsold every other team in the league by far.
The insecure guys in the background wanted to have that limelight shine on them too and they were going to get their publicity one way or the other. They got it.
They blew it up before it was time and that is what left a bitter taste in the mouths of so many people here.
Like they were watching a really great movie on Cable and then changed the channel before it was over so they could watch “Dancing With The Stars”

[six4three]

When Jordan made it known that if Jackson was let go that he would retire Krause and Reinsdorf said, “Go ahead” and that is what he did. They could not wait to build a team that did not include their inherited golden goose and never offered him a spot with the team.


That didn't make any sense to me at the time, and it still doesn't make any sense to me now.

Whatta maroon.

[Chevy114]

I will never understand people. Letting your star coach and star player go so you can feel important.

[alpineinc]

Last year, 1990.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2127/2090325610_9702e16146_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2243/2089531785_d2502f5d26_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2408/2192388239_d8d225af98_o.jpg



1991 (brace yourselves)

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1170/968533671_25231bf43f_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2160/2449981265_819b990c4a_b.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/107/268461827_0243f7bf9f_o.jpg

[parlo]

Why are they throwing their drink on that guy?

just don't show this picture to Rev. Al. He'll say that he person who threw the drink was a racist and should be in jail.Bringing your talk radio rants to a baseball site is never a good idea. Perhaps you would be more at home at one of the Bill OReilly or Sean Hannity sites. They welcome that kind of discussion.
Good Luck!

[six4three]

1991 (brace yourselves)
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2160/2449981265_819b990c4a_b.jpg

Really shows that they missed out, building it facing south and east instead of north and east - could have done something to give the upper deck major skyline views.

[Yoda]

Really shows that they missed out, building it facing south and east instead of north and east - could have done something to give the upper deck major skyline views.


Especially with all the new huge buildings being put up in Chicago.

Oh well...maybe there'll be a crack in the foundation and they'll have to tear it down and build a new one!

[Pelt]

Oh well...maybe there'll be a crack in the foundation and they'll have to tear it down and build a new one!

You know, that's kind of my sentiment about Comerica in Detroit - except in my version it somehow crumbles, or burns down and the Tigers have to move back to Tiger Stadium while there is still time to!

These demolition pics, regardless of which old park, always makes my heart sink a little.

[Yoda]

New buildings in Chicago that'd change the skyline:
waldorf-astoria:
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/3930/waldorf3qu0.jpg

trump
http://www.chicagoarchitecture.info/Images/NearNorthSide/TrumpTower-011.jpg

chicago spire
http://imagebank.ipcmedia.com/imageBank/c/chicagospiretwo.jpg

You know, that's kind of my sentiment about Comerica in Detroit - except in my version it somehow crumbles, or burns down and the Tigers have to move back to Tiger Stadium while there is still time to!

These demolition pics, regardless of which old park, always makes my heart sink a little.


You're one of the few I've heard complain about that place. How come?

[Captain Cold Nose]

New buildings in Chicago that'd change the skyline:
waldorf-astoria:
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/3930/waldorf3qu0.jpg

trump
http://www.chicagoarchitecture.info/Images/NearNorthSide/TrumpTower-011.jpg

chicago spire
http://imagebank.ipcmedia.com/imageBank/c/chicagospiretwo.jpg




You're one of the few I've heard complain about that place. How come?

Tiger Stadium was a well-loved place. It's not so much Comerica is a problem, it's really a good stadium, but Tiger Stadium was a great one and it still has some people who have loyalty to the building more than the team or the city where they play.

[Pelt]

It isn't so much a complaint about Comerica.

It's just the frustration of knowing that one of the great baseball parks throughout the game's history is still sitting there - about to become history.

[DaBigMotor]

I've been to Comerica.

And I've said many times, that the ONLY thing wrong with her, is that she committed the unforgivable sin of not being Tiger Stadium.

If we'd have had one of those cookie cutter dumps, NOBODY would be b**ching about Comerica Park.

I remember back when the debate was raging in Detroit about whether or not to build a new stadium, that it seemed that some wanted the Tigers to stay at Tiger Stadium forever no matter what, no matter the cost.

If some of these people would have had their way, NO stadium would EVER have been torn down. Baseball stadia, unlike virtually any other type of building apparently NEVER become decrepit, or outmoded. Using that same logic, none of those who feel that way should ever have moved out of any house that they ever lived in...you could have MADE it work if you'd really have wanted to! You're obviously "greedy" for wanting more. Who needs a movie/game room or computer room? What ever happened to just making spare bedrooms into dens? Why can't you just make those cramped closets work?? We could then easily transfer this lunacy to our cars, and maybe even our first girlfriends.

Why is the only time that this logic doesn't sound CRAZY is when it comes to old baseball stadiums??

I also finding it interesting how the qualified opinions of many that these places were "dumps" are always somehow discounted. As a Tigers fan all my life, I GUARANTEE you, that Tiger Stadium was a dump that needed to be replaced...and I LOVED the place!

It was TIME. You CAN'T stay in these places FOREVER.

Slap six more coats of paint on that Model T, stick an mp3 player in it, all you want. It STILL won't change into a Navigator!

Just goes to prove that feelings and rationale are sometimes mutually exclusive...

[thechefs2003]

Very well said BigMotor. I guess I wish they could do something to keep Tiger Stadium (and other old parks) around even if the teams aren't using it. Turn them into little league fields and/or a sports museums or something, I don't know.

[J.R.]

I've been to Comerica.

And I've said many times, that the ONLY thing wrong with her, is that she committed the unforgivable sin of not being Tiger Stadium.

If we'd have had one of those cookie cutter dumps, NOBODY would be b**ching about Comerica Park.

I remember back when the debate was raging in Detroit about whether or not to build a new stadium, that it seemed that some wanted the Tigers to stay at Tiger Stadium forever no matter what, no matter the cost.

If some of these people would have had their way, NO stadium would EVER have been torn down. Baseball stadia, unlike virtually any other type of building apparently NEVER become decrepit, or outmoded. Using that same logic, none of those who feel that way should ever have moved out of any house that they ever lived in...you could have MADE it work if you'd really have wanted to! You're obviously "greedy" for wanting more. Who needs a movie/game room or computer room? What ever happened to just making spare bedrooms into dens? Why can't you just make those cramped closets work?? We could then easily transfer this lunacy to our cars, and maybe even our first girlfriends.

Why is the only time that this logic doesn't sound CRAZY is when it comes to old baseball stadiums??

I also finding it interesting how the qualified opinions of many that these places were "dumps" are always somehow discounted. As a Tigers fan all my life, I GUARANTEE you, that Tiger Stadium was a dump that needed to be replaced...and I LOVED the place!

It was TIME. You CAN'T stay in these places FOREVER.

Slap six more coats of paint on that Model T, stick an mp3 player in it, all you want. It STILL won't change into a Navigator!

Just goes to prove that feelings and rationale are sometimes mutually exclusive...

Tradition is big in other ways. Many people take pride in living in their grandparents' homes and whatnot.

Your Model T/Navigator analogy betrays your mindset. You are a "more/bigger/newer is better" type of person. Nothing wrong with that, but people who feel otherwise aren't crazy like you imply.

Landmark structures like the US Capitol will be used FOREVER. There's no reason why baseball's cathedrals can't be given the same reverence.

[parlo]

Tradition is big in other ways. Many people take pride in living in their grandparents' homes and whatnot.

Your Model T/Navigator analogy betrays your mindset. You are a "more/bigger/newer is better" type of person. Nothing wrong with that, but people who feel otherwise aren't crazy like you imply.

Landmark structures like the US Capitol will be used FOREVER. There's no reason why baseball's cathedrals can't be given the same reverence.I agree, most new stadiums were built because taxpayers subsidized the project, and many new luxury suites were included in the plans. I feel the same way about Yankee Stadium. Once it is gone , it is gone for good. The newness of the future stadium will wear off in about 5 years and we will have lost a great deal of history, but have more choices at the food court.

[whoisonit]

The newness of the future stadium will wear off in about 5 years and we will have lost a great deal of history, but have more choices at the food court.

And wider seats for our modern fat ases. Those old stadiums had such narrow seats, people sure were skinny in the good old days.

[placount]

I've begun looking forward to seeing Wrigley and Fenway torn down because i like watching people on internet message boards cry.

[DaBigMotor]

Your Model T/Navigator analogy betrays your mindset. You are a "more/bigger/newer is better" type of person. Nothing wrong with that, but people who feel otherwise aren't crazy like you imply.

Assumption + pseudo analysis?

I have nothing wrong with old things, within reason, so allow me to betray your mindset: OLD does not necessarily mean SUPERIOR. As I mentioned, Tiger Stadium was indeed a dump, but I loved the place. But my love for something old does not BLIND me with denial, as it does many here. It's kinda like watching a guy who can't understand why his fat, buck-toothed daughter can't get a date, since she's the prettiest girl in the village square.

THAT'S the point.

The US Capitol serves pretty much the same exact purpose it always has. It's not OUTDOORS, and it wasn't built to house and entertain 60,000 19th century ballplayers and bodies daily.

[History Of Baseball Fan]

I wish I could have watched a game at the old Comiskey Park. It looked like such a nice ballpark to see a game and had a lot of history. It was the oldest park being used at the time and just think of all the old time ball players who played at old Comiskey. I like the green colour of the seats. It has a distinctive green that you could recognize it anywhere. Just see that green and you instantly know its Comiskey... just like the green at Fenway Park and the blue at Tiger Stadium. Too bad the new park looks like garbage... well when it first opened it looked like that, but it looks a little better now with some changes to it. I forgot to ask when was the outside of the park all white like it showed in those pictures ?

Does anyone here have any Comiskey Park artifacts they could show us ? I'd love to have a brick and a seat from it !

When teams move out of old parks, they should take some of the old features and use them in the new park. I don't mean copy it 100 % but I think taking some ideas from the new one into the old one would be nice. I hate a lot of the newer parks today. They all basically copy each other and look the same... boring looking...

I wish all of the old parks could be saved like Polo Grounds, Shibe Park, Tiger Stadium and Comiskey. I mean would it have killed anybody if they made it a minor league park or a museum of some kind ? They should have been named a Historic Site.

[J.R.]

It's kinda like watching a guy who can't understand why his fat, buck-toothed daughter can't get a date, since she's the prettiest girl in the village square.

THAT'S the point.

I get it. It didn't have a ferris wheel, so it's crap.

Tiger Stadium had lots going for it besides the history - those stands provided the kind of closeness we'll never see again.

The US Capitol serves pretty much the same exact purpose it always has. It's not OUTDOORS, and it wasn't built to house and entertain 60,000 19th century ballplayers and bodies daily.

The Capitol, as a heavy-use structure, is a perfectly legitimate example. As are the thousands of old-school churches, opera houses and such that remain in use.

[J.R.]

I forgot to ask when was the outside of the park all white like it showed in those pictures ?

I think Veeck whitewashed it in the 70s. Totally ruined the exterior.

[History Of Baseball Fan]

I think Veeck whitewashed it in the 70s. Totally ruined the exterior.

Yeah it kind of made it look a bit tacky with all that white.

[six4three]

They did that with Yankee Stadium in the 1960s - it was awful, the beginning of the end.

[bleacherbum73]

They did that with Yankee Stadium in the 1960s - it was awful, the beginning of the end.

In hindsite it was awful, but people at the time probably thought it made the park look cleaner and more modern. It WAS the 1960's and anything sleek, new and modern was what was "in". Today you would never do that. You would refurbish the original as best you could and keep all the old.

My grandmothers house is a good example. It is 90 years old. I am 35 so I only know it the way it is now. When I first saw pictures of what the inside used to look like before my dad "remodeled" it in 1968 I was amazed. Hardwood floors througout, wide base trim, 6 panel white doors througout, higher ceilings. After the "remodel" Wall to wall carpeting, plain, thin, brown base trim, plain brown doors, and a lower ceiling.:disbelief: While i can't believe they did that at the time that's what everybody wanted and did. Luckily the hardwood floor is still there and is now reexposed and refinished just recently.

[six4three]

In hindsite it was awful, but people at the time probably thought it made the park look cleaner and more modern. It WAS the 1960's and anything sleek, new and modern was what was "in".

Agreed.

Just one of the aesthetic problems I have with the 1960s. :D

[bleacherbum73]

Agreed.

Just one of the aesthetic problems I have with the 1960s. :D

I have a lot of problems with that decade and i didn't even live through them:(

[DaBigMotor]

I get it. It didn't have a ferris wheel, so it's crap.

Apparently, you don't get it, and you never will.

Did you ever go to Tiger Stadium yourself? I did, many, many times, and emotionality aside, I could plainy SEE its shortcomings. Obviously there was no ferris wheel and I have mentioned several times that I loved the place.

A lack of a ferris wheel wasn't the issue, but your endless, circular argument is.

I loved it too. Still didn't make it not a dump. Which part of that don't you get??

And if you believe that's the ONLY reason for loving Comerica Park, I've got an old, ghetto-themed, dilapidated low income high rise full of "memories" that should be rehabilitated and reused ad infinitum too. Wanna make an investment? I'll gladly send you my PayPal account info...



Tiger Stadium had lots going for it besides the history - those stands provided the kind of closeness we'll never see again.
Indeed, one of its plusses.

We'll also never see the cramped, obstructed seats, wire screens, narrow, empty concourses, trough-styled urinals, cramped dugouts, and threadbare player facilities again. I remember several of the players saying that they had better facilities in high school.


The Capitol, as a heavy-use structure, is a perfectly legitimate example. As are the thousands of old-school churches, opera houses and such that remain in use.

You've conveniently side-stepped the previous points that I made on this weak comparison...the Capitol is not an an outdoor sports facility made to house 60K 19th century bodies on wooden seats year-round. The purpose for the Capitol hasn't changed, nor has the needs of its occupants evolved to the degree that the needs of the modern baseball fan & player have.

Why is a new baseball stadium such an inconceivable concept in the eyes of so many here??

And I find it bizzare, this logic that says that, if you think that one actually needed to be replaced, regardless of all the since that replacing it makes, that you somehow don't like older things.

How insane.

[POLO GROUNDS 1957]

It has been 17 years since old Comiskey Parks demolition and its still fresh in my mind just like it happened yesterday.i hate the new ballpark just as much as i did back then. and when this month Tiger Stadium meets the wrecking ball i will hate Comerica Park more including the team and the city.this will be a very dark day in baseball history.

[J.R.]

... the cramped, obstructed seats, wire screens, narrow, empty concourses, trough-styled urinals, cramped dugouts, and threadbare player facilities again. I remember several of the players saying that they had better facilities in high school.

You've conveniently side-stepped the previous points that I made on this weak comparison...the Capitol is not an an outdoor sports facility made to house 60K 19th century bodies on wooden seats year-round. The purpose for the Capitol hasn't changed, nor has the needs of its occupants evolved to the degree that the needs of the modern baseball fan & player have.

Nothing on your wishlist, save for the un-obstructed seats and gimmicks like fountains and ferris wheels, would have been impossible to implement at the old park. You're always asking "where's the plan" when renovations are proposed - well, The Tiger Stadium Fan Club actually put one forth, the Cochrane Plan, but the ignorant people in charge of the club and the city never considered it.

The needs of baseball fans haven't changed nearly as much as you imply, unless you're one of those ADD/carnival types, which you stridently deny. I can't imagine paying for a ticket and then spending half the game hanging out on the concourses, in the bathrooms or in some kiddie playland.

As an aside, I've never understood the rancor over obstructed view seating. The poles make for closer views, and if you don't want to sit behind one, simply don't buy tickets back there.

[Sean O]

As an aside, I've never understood the rancor over obstructed view seating. The poles make for closer views, and if you don't want to sit behind one, simply don't buy tickets back there.

But surely you understand that the poles obstruct, to some degree, 1/2 of the park's seating, correct? I've had tons of non-obstructed view seats that conveniently blocked off all of first base or were smack-dab between home plate and the mound. it's a pain

[Brackish__4]

But surely you understand that the poles obstruct, to some degree, 1/2 of the park's seating, correct? I've had tons of non-obstructed view seats that conveniently blocked off all of first base or were smack-dab between home plate and the mound. it's a pain

I understand that a support pole would obstruct some of your view, but baseball is not like a movie, where if you miss some of the action, the entire thing is ruined. What is the big deal if you miss A-Rod fielding the ball for a half second, you still know exactly what is going on, and you still feel the energy of the crowd around you, which is why you go to a game.

Sports Illustrated columnist Rick Reilly timed a ball in play during a 2000 playoff game. The game lasted 3 hours and 15 minutes, and the ball was in play a total of 12 minutes and 22 seconds (and Reilly admitted to being "generous with the stopwatch"). Do the math and you'll see that for 94% of the game, players were either spitting seeds, jumping in and out of the batter's box, or adjusting themselves.

Along those same lines, in 1956, a sportswriter named Dick Wade timed the actual "action" during a game and found that the ball was in play for 9 minutes and 55 seconds. Neither Wade's nor Reilly's findings are scientific, but their point is proven nonetheless.

[DaBigMotor]

Nothing on your wishlist, save for the un-obstructed seats and gimmicks like fountains and ferris wheels, would have been impossible to implement at the old park.

Can't let it rest, can you? My "wish list?" The players said that they had better facilities in HIGH SCHOOL. Where do you add a new club house? Better training & workout facilities?

You obviously have an ax to grind. Being a Cubs fan, I guess I shouldn't be surprised, and I find it rather amusing how you constantly attempt to put words into my mouth to support your silly arguments.


You're always asking "where's the plan" when renovations are proposed - well, The Tiger Stadium Fan Club actually put one forth, the Cochrane Plan, but the ignorant people in charge of the club and the city never considered it.

The Cochrane Plane was no "plan." It was a pig in a poke, a pipe dream, a computer-generated circle jerk. A virtual flight of Steve Bartman-like fancy. The people who came up with it KNEW that it would NEVER happen. The work of obstructionists (like YOU) who would be damned if the Tigers ever left Tiger Stadium, no matter what.

Just because someone can show you computer generated renderings of a crumbling, ancient baseball palace tricked out like it's been thru an episode of "Pimp My Ball Yard," doesn't mean that it's practical, feasible, or even likely.

The needs of baseball fans haven't changed nearly as much as you imply, unless you're one of those ADD/carnival types, which you stridently deny.

Why would I ever need to confirm or deny such a jack-assed assumption?

The needs of the 21st Century entertainment venue, and its patrons is VASTLY different from what was conceived by the generation of our great, great grandfathers, over 100 years ago, FAR more than you'd ever see, or admit, unless you're one of those DD& B types, which you so stridently deny...

[Sean O]

Just because someone can show you computer generated renderings of a crumbling, ancient baseball palace tricked out like it's been thru an episode of "Pimp My Ball Yard," doesn't mean that it's practical, feasible, or even likely.


Uhm, isn't this what they did with Fenway? 10 years ago, if you said there'd be a second deck on the park, a completely rebuilt concourse, and brand new bathrooms so that people want it to last another 100 years, people would've thought you were insane.

The Red Sox spent $100m on their renovations. Comerica cost $300m. And let me tell you, Fenway sure looked like crap in June of 1998.

[Mario Mendoza...HOF Lock]

As a kid, I never gave much thought to Comiskey. I considered it an oversized, boring old park with lousy teams in often silly uniforms..

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2399/2543537404_5317a66989_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2173/2543537506_60aecfe15d_o.jpg

But the more pictures I saw and the more I read about it the more I realized it was a great place to see a game (despite the poles). Much like Tiger Stadium, there's much to be said about old stadium's, their history and their architecture. Unfortunately, all must eventually come down. The renovations at the Cell at least make the loss of Comiskey easier to take.

Some other pics

1990
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3101/2542700427_81733dec20_o.jpg

Perhaps mid 80's??

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3110/2542710595_4249394b56_o.jpg

Judging by the guy's ugly plaid slacks, this looks more mid-70's. Who is that?
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3009/2543537636_b68529631e_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3172/2543537758_51970739f2_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2216/2543537880_02ed4c9af6_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2159/2543537978_705ae833ff_o.jpg

[curb my enthusiasm]

Uhm, isn't this what they did with Fenway? 10 years ago, if you said there'd be a second deck on the park, a completely rebuilt concourse, and brand new bathrooms so that people want it to last another 100 years, people would've thought you were insane.

The Red Sox spent $100m on their renovations. Comerica cost $300m. And let me tell you, Fenway sure looked like crap in June of 1998.

I haven't been to Fenway in 15 years, but I've heard that the concourses are still badly cramped. However, the entire stadium looks a lot better on TV than it used to.

[Sean O]

I haven't been to Fenway in 15 years, but I've heard that the concourses are still badly cramped. However, the entire stadium looks a lot better on TV than it used to.

The right field is still a particular mess for traffic under the stands, that goes without saying. But left field has been opened up greatly since Yawkey was integrated, and generally the concourses look so much better than they used to. The bathrooms are exponentially better, there's more lighting, more concession stands, many more access points, etc.

Anything is possible.

[Mario Mendoza...HOF Lock]

These are from 1961, according to the file names. I forgot where I found them, but they are good shots of Comiskey game action (Sox vs Yankees). These pics were huge and had to be resized to improve image quality.

Maris batting
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3260/2542712125_099a1ae048_b.jpg

Mantle batting
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2045/2542714141_aea6e78be2_b.jpg

I'll post some more from this game if anybody wants to see them.

[bnbusser]

The guy in the UGLY plaid slacks is Harry Caray.....

[POLO GROUNDS 1957]

.




The Cochrane Plane was no "plan." It was a pig in a poke, a pipe dream, a computer-generated circle jerk. A virtual flight of Steve Bartman-like fancy. The people who came up with it KNEW that it would NEVER happen. The work of obstructionists (like YOU) who would be damned if the Tigers ever left Tiger Stadium, no matter what.

Just because someone can show you computer generated renderings of a crumbling, ancient baseball palace tricked out like it's been thru an episode of "Pimp My Ball Yard," doesn't mean that it's practical, feasible, or even likely.



...

You are full of it which seems to be most of the time here. i was a member of the Tiger Stadium Fan Club and the Cochrane Plan was a realistic plan that the city of Detroit and the Detroit Tigers never gave a chance. and i still have my copy of the Cochrane Plan.the fan club had engineers that did know what they were doing.and if the plan was used Tiger Stadium would still be used for baseball today.again everyone here has a right for there own opinion on things even if they are wrong.

[Philtration]

As a kid, I never gave much thought to Comiskey. I considered it an oversized, boring old park with lousy teams in often silly uniforms..

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2399/2543537404_5317a66989_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2173/2543537506_60aecfe15d_o.jpg

But the more pictures I saw and the more I read about it the more I realized it was a great place to see a game (despite the poles). Much like Tiger Stadium, there's much to be said about old stadium's, their history and their architecture. Unfortunately, all must eventually come down. The renovations at the Cell at least make the loss of Comiskey easier to take.

Some other pics

1990
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3101/2542700427_81733dec20_o.jpg

Perhaps mid 80's??

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3110/2542710595_4249394b56_o.jpg

Judging by the guy's ugly plaid slacks, this looks more mid-70's. Who is that?
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3009/2543537636_b68529631e_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3172/2543537758_51970739f2_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2216/2543537880_02ed4c9af6_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2159/2543537978_705ae833ff_o.jpg

The guy in the ugly pants is Harry Carry. He did the White Sox games for 11 seasons before moving to the other side of town.

[Mario Mendoza...HOF Lock]

The guy in the UGLY plaid slacks is Harry Caray.....

Not being from Chicago, he looks different (younger) from the Carey that I remember. We didn't get WGN until the late 80's. For some reason he's more synonymous with the Cubs than White Sox to me.

[bnbusser]

Not being from Chicago, he looks different (younger) from the Carey that I remember. We didn't get WGN until the late 80's. For some reason he's more synonymous with the Cubs than White Sox to me.

Harry actually did the Oakland A's for a year or two then went to the Sox where he began take me out to the ballgame... He was one of a kind... he knew every bar and saloon in Chicago.

[Mario Mendoza...HOF Lock]

Harry actually did the Oakland A's for a year or two then went to the Sox where he began take me out to the ballgame... He was one of a kind... he knew every bar and saloon in Chicago.

Kind of like his son Skip, who knows every bar and saloon in Atlanta. Not that there's anything wrong with that. God knows I've spent time in saloons watching them both. Imagine the stories you'd hear tilting a few with Harry & Skip.

[bnbusser]

Yea I remember seeing pics of Harry in Wrigley and Comiskey broadcasting from the bleachers in the outfield, without his shirt and bud cups piled high.. he was in the bag by the 3rd inning.... he led a helluva life!

[bnbusser]

speak of the devil!!! Here is Harry...sans shirt

[Mario Mendoza...HOF Lock]

I had the same image cut, pasted and ready to post, but you beat me to the punch (or in this case, beer) How about this, I'm sure the cup DOES have beer in it....

http://www.powermaxconsulting.com/caraywgn.jpg

[bnbusser]

yeah im sure it wasnt water..... harry lived the life of 10 guys....

[mandrake]

Here are my opinions on a few MLB ballparks:

Comiskey Park was my favorite. When I stepped in there (1990)I felt I was inside Ebbets Field and the Polo Grounds at the same time. The best food. Fantastic sightlines, but I sat in front of the posts in the lower deck between the mound and third. (But the place was showing its age;badly in spots.) The experience was so good, my wife bought a box seat for me when they had the charity sale. I watched the 2005 playoffs and series while sitting in it.

Wrigley Field. Yes, it's a classic. But I heard Whitey Herzog say on TV "they have razed every place that looked like this, so why do people like it ?". Wrigley is showing its age too.

Fenway Park. Went there before the refurb. My wife walked in and said "what a dump". I was really disappointed with it. I have not been back since the improvements, but it would be tough to see how they could improve it much.

County Stadium. My wife's fave. I thought it had the best sightlines of any park. You were really close to the action.

Candlestick Park. The less said, the better.

Dodger Stadium. Built in '62, it is light years ahead of Shea ('64). It might be aging a bit, but it is so much better than Shea.

Shea Stadium. Family had many seasons of Jets and Mets tickets. Thought it was a better place for football. Had season tickets for years in the loge. Section 32 for football. Section 21 for baseball. Can't wait until they knock it flat !

Yankee Stadium. It is not the same place I went to as a kid. I prefer the old park, even though it is still much better than Shea for baseball. The aisles are too narrow, even in the 'new' upper deck. The concourse in the lower deck is just asking for a stampede. If they ever had to evacuate the place in an emergency, (post 2001 thinking) it would be a disaster. Said good bye to the place during the Papal visit.

Tiger Stadium. It was a dump. Posts everywhere. Obstructed seats galore. Plumbing dating back to the Roman Empire. In the single worst neighborhood I have ever been to. Just implode the place already !!!! Isn't it a homeless shelter right now?

[hellborn]

Harry Caray announced for the Cards for years, too. Rumor was that he had to go after getting involved with one of the married Busch women.

I'm really surprised that the poster who loved Comiskey complained about the neighborhood around Tiger Stadium...I used to hang around Tiger before and after games, I NEVER would have done that around Comiskey. When you left Comiskey at night, there were police about every 50 feet between the park and the subway...believe me, they were needed. It wasn't exactly nice around Tiger, but not nearly as bad as around Comiskey.
The story of Comerica is an example of the right way to replace an aging, unpleasant stadium...that of the Cell or whatever it's called now is an example of the wrong way. Hard to believe, but they built something worse than that smelly, nasty, rotting heap that used to be on the South Side of Chicago. We used to drive to Milwaukee to see the Sox rather than go to Comiskey. The contrast to Wrigley could hardly have been more extreme.

Whomever suggested that the present Bosox ownership is preparing Fenway for another 100 years must have added a digit by accident...I'd say 10-20 years. You know that those guys are still searching hard for a good site and plan for a new stadium, but they are smart enough to know that it will take a long time to actually make progress on it in Boston.
There's a lot to love about Fenway, but I'd love a great new park like Comerica even more. Imagine a park with seating that makes sense, some parking, decent highway access, and concessions that you can watch the game from. I love the suggestion that obstructed and partially obstructed views don't really matter...I'll think about that next time I miss 1/3 of the action when I'm in a $100 seat at Fenway. Oh, Lowell made a great play? Too bad I didn't have a chance in hell of seeing it, please describe it to me. Hey, isn't this what I came to the park to see, though?!!??

[DaBigMotor]

Here are my opinions on a few MLB ballparks:

Comiskey Park was my favorite. When I stepped in there (1990)I felt I was inside Ebbets Field and the Polo Grounds at the same time. The best food. Fantastic sightlines, but I sat in front of the posts in the lower deck between the mound and third. (But the place was showing its age;badly in spots.) The experience was so good, my wife bought a box seat for me when they had the charity sale. I watched the 2005 playoffs and series while sitting in it.

Wrigley Field. Yes, it's a classic. But I heard Whitey Herzog say on TV "they have razed every place that looked like this, so why do people like it ?". Wrigley is showing its age too.

Fenway Park. Went there before the refurb. My wife walked in and said "what a dump". I was really disappointed with it. I have not been back since the improvements, but it would be tough to see how they could improve it much.

County Stadium. My wife's fave. I thought it had the best sightlines of any park. You were really close to the action.

Candlestick Park. The less said, the better.

Dodger Stadium. Built in '62, it is light years ahead of Shea ('64). It might be aging a bit, but it is so much better than Shea.

Shea Stadium. Family had many seasons of Jets and Mets tickets. Thought it was a better place for football. Had season tickets for years in the loge. Section 32 for football. Section 21 for baseball. Can't wait until they knock it flat !

Yankee Stadium. It is not the same place I went to as a kid. I prefer the old park, even though it is still much better than Shea for baseball. The aisles are too narrow, even in the 'new' upper deck. The concourse in the lower deck is just asking for a stampede. If they ever had to evacuate the place in an emergency, (post 2001 thinking) it would be a disaster. Said good bye to the place during the Papal visit.

Tiger Stadium. It was a dump. Posts everywhere. Obstructed seats galore. Plumbing dating back to the Roman Empire. In the single worst neighborhood I have ever been to. Just implode the place already !!!! Isn't it a homeless shelter right now?You're toatally off base about the neighborhood surrounding Tiger Stadium. Police statistics have shown that area to be one of the SAFEST in the city. NOTHING happens in Corktown. The PROBLEM is all the folks who spread the word about how "unsafe" the neighborhood is. These comments are based on personal perception, not based in fact.

As far as your other comments are concerned, be prepared to defend yourself. Some here think that NO stadium is beyond eternal usage....

[six4three]

If that's true about old Tiger Stadium, then you should post statistics - only way we can combat ignorance is with hard data.

Whomever suggested that the present Bosox ownership is preparing Fenway for another 100 years must have added a digit by accident...I'd say 10-20 years. You know that those guys are still searching hard for a good site and plan for a new stadium, but they are smart enough to know that it will take a long time to actually make progress on it in Boston.
There's a lot to love about Fenway, but I'd love a great new park like Comerica even more. Imagine a park with seating that makes sense, some parking, decent highway access, and concessions that you can watch the game from. I love the suggestion that obstructed and partially obstructed views don't really matter...I'll think about that next time I miss 1/3 of the action when I'm in a $100 seat at Fenway. Oh, Lowell made a great play? Too bad I didn't have a chance in hell of seeing it, please describe it to me. Hey, isn't this what I came to the park to see, though?!!??

They tried this once, and not even Ted Williams could convince the fans to get behind a new stadium. Don't know what it'll take, short of letting the place rot and crumble.

[mandrake]

You're toatally off base about the neighborhood surrounding Tiger Stadium. Police statistics have shown that area to be one of the SAFEST in the city. NOTHING happens in Corktown. The PROBLEM is all the folks who spread the word about how "unsafe" the neighborhood is. These comments are based on personal perception, not based in fact.

As far as your other comments are concerned, be prepared to defend yourself. Some here think that NO stadium is beyond eternal usage....


Well, I can only give opinions on someplace I have been and how I felt. I grew up in Brooklyn and took 2 subways (IND) and an elevated line (IRT) to both NYC stadiums. I first travelled to games without adult supervision when I was 12.

Anyway, I drove around Detroit and went to Tiger Stadium and I still think that entire city is a war zone. The population was 2 million in 1950, now it is900,000. The rest of the city looks like an A bomb went off in it. If the area around Tiger Stadium was safe compared to the rest of Detroit, it is still too scary for this New Yorker.

I felt 100% safe around Comiskey. People did tell me to stay on "this side of the Dan Ryan" but I did not see any trouble at all. Maybe when I went it was a safe era (1990 night game).

I agree that perception sometimes differs from reality. I was shocked that the area around Riverfront Stadium (Cincy)was 'bad news'. I thought it was just a safe mid-western city. People tell me I was wrong.

Kansas City built their stadiums in the middle of nowhere. They are as safe as can be. But the old Municipal Stadium was on Brooklyn Ave, and when I eat at Arthur Bryant's, I am reminded why the stadium is no longer there.

I always thought New Orleans was a safe place, but when I actually went there in 1981, I strayed off the French quarter by one block, and I had their policemen warn me to turn around immediately. I had no idea it was such a rough place.

As for defending a dump like Shea Stadium, I first went there in 1968 and and I am going again in July, and I still challenge anyone to defend that place. It may have seemed like a good idea when they broke ground in 1961, but it need to be imploded.

[hellborn]

If that's true about old Tiger Stadium, then you should post statistics - only way we can combat ignorance is with hard data.
(quote about new park in Boston)
They tried this once, and not even Ted Williams could convince the fans to get behind a new stadium. Don't know what it'll take, short of letting the place rot and crumble.

Stats might be hard to find and make complete sense of...I used to spend time at a bar close to old Tiger, will never think of the name, and felt comfortable parking near there and walking to it before and after the game. It was a working class place, but it was friendly enough. We always got in and out of Comiskey FAST...last time I went to the new park, we were stuck in traffic getting out of the lot, and an endless stream of bums with spray bottles and rags accosted our car. We would try to give them a dollar to NOT TOUCH the car, but they would smear grime on the windshield anyway and want $5. They weren't asking nice, either. Horrible experience.
I guess everybody has their own perceptions and experiences...Comiskey area=nice and Tiger area=not nice doesn't make any sense to me, though.

There was a very vocal group of fans that wanted to "Save Fenway", but there were plenty that wanted a nicely done new park, too...myself included. A great many fans would approach those with the "Save Fenway" signs and ask if those people had ever sat down the RF line and damaged their necks, or in RF box seats and missed the whole game, or on the RF roof and nearly been blown off, or behind a pole in expensive grandstand seats, or stood in SRO, or ever paid $60 to be parked in, or shown up at a T station to find a full garage, or spent two hours getting out of a Fens parking garage, or missed two innings trying to buy a beer, etc, etc.
I have no idea what the split was then, but there are PLENTY of serious Bosox fans who would support a good plan for a new stadium. Don't fool yourself.

[Philtration]

When Harry did the Sox games he was different guy. Nothing like the grandpa Harry from the Cub broadcasts.

He would rip a player a new one of they screwed up and could be really vicious.
He was brutally honest and him teaming up with Jimmy Piersol (who was a strange guy) made the games interesting even when the action on the field was not.
Piersol had been admitted to a mental hospital years before and sometimes he would make a comment that Harry did not agree with and Harry would say something like “Wow, you really are crazy after all” Then they would both crack up about it.
When he would do the game from center field at Comiskey he would get pretty intoxicated and a lot of really hot women would take turns sitting on his lap.

And then Jerry Reinsdorf bought the team and fired him. One more reason to hate this guy.

[hellborn]

Wouldn't Veeck sit shirtless out in the stands with Harry sometimes?
Ah, the '70s...an entire nation gone mad. It was pretty funny sometimes, you gotta admit.

[icee82]

I was never a Cubs' fan but I used to watch some of their games just to hear Harry Caray! He was the best. By today's standards he would not be politically correct but that was the thing that was so great about him.

[Sean O]

I have no idea what the split was then, but there are PLENTY of serious Bosox fans who would support a good plan for a new stadium. Don't fool yourself.

After three years, a new park would be less than half full. I'd say there's a 2% chance that HOK could design a park that would be acceptable for Boston baseball, so we'd end up with a either a cheap Fenway knockoff without anything that made Fenway good, or a generic retro mashup that would look like everywhere else.

Look at that horrible mess they built instead of the Garden. I feel like I'm at a mall at the Fleet Center, and sitting anywhere in the upper deck requires binoculars.

I say tear down the bleachers and the RF line (essentially, return it to pre-1934), then rebuild it all with real sightlines. It would steal a hell of a lot less (or, how about $0!) from Mass. taxpayers, while making Fenway viable far into the future.

No way can anyone build a respectful, respectable replacement.

[Yoda]

After three years, a new park would be less than half full. I'd say there's a 2% chance that HOK could design a park that would be acceptable for Boston baseball, so we'd end up with a either a cheap Fenway knockoff without anything that made Fenway good, or a generic retro mashup that would look like everywhere else.

Look at that horrible mess they built instead of the Garden. I feel like I'm at a mall at the Fleet Center, and sitting anywhere in the upper deck requires binoculars.

I say tear down the bleachers and the RF line (essentially, return it to pre-1934), then rebuild it all with real sightlines. It would steal a hell of a lot less (or, how about $0!) from Mass. taxpayers, while making Fenway viable far into the future.

No way can anyone build a respectful, respectable replacement.

I know that's not the point you were trying to make but I think one of the best teams in baseball would draw better than that.

[Sean O]

I know that's not the point you were trying to make but I think one of the best teams in baseball would draw better than that.

Losing Fenway would be a tremendous blow that those seeking wider concourses don't seem to fully grasp. I love the Celtics, but I just don't go because the venue is so terrible. It's not that I'm actively protesting or anything, it's just that I'm not anywhere as interested as I used to be going to the Garden.

Yes, it's nice to have wider seats and wider concourses, but an ugly, generic mess like every other HOK park would be horrible for the city and the team. People will spend $20 for standing room behind a concourse with people constantly walking in front of them to go to Fenway. Fenway is an event, while HOK parks are a flash in the pan.

(sorry for the digression from Comiskey)

[Yoda]

Agreed that the old places are an event to experience. However I think most fans would be able to bite the bullet to see their team.

[stlfan]

It's not like the Red Sox are like the Cubs in that over half the fans go to Fenway for a party atmosphere and don't care about the product on the field. True, many of those in Boston would hate to see Fenway go, but those die hard fans that love their Sox wouldn't stop going to root on their team just because the Red Sox no longer play in Fenway.

[J.R.]

But surely you understand that the poles obstruct, to some degree, 1/2 of the park's seating, correct?

Yes, but having taken a perch in Wrigley's 500 level on multiple occasions, I'm always pleased with how much closer that upper deck is than those in modern parks. Most obstructed seats aren't catastrophically blocked, and those that are can usually be bought at a significant discount. The beams are worth the trade IMHO.

[J.R.]

Can't let it rest, can you? My "wish list?" The players said that they had better facilities in HIGH SCHOOL. Where do you add a new club house? Better training & workout facilities?

Ever hear of the Cochrane Plan? You really should take a look sometime.

You obviously have an ax to grind. Being a Cubs fan, I guess I shouldn't be surprised

Yeah, I hate the Tigers. Wait, what?

The Cochrane Plane was no "plan." It was a pig in a poke, a pipe dream, a computer-generated circle jerk. A virtual flight of Steve Bartman-like fancy. The people who came up with it KNEW that it would NEVER happen.

It was legitimate. A similar project has been implemented at Fenway, and will be at Wrigley in the near term.

The needs of the 21st Century entertainment venue, and its patrons is VASTLY different from what was conceived by the generation of our great, great grandfathers, over 100 years ago, FAR more than you'd ever see, or admit, unless you're one of those DD& B types, which you so stridently deny...

Give me a seat, a dog and a drink. What else is there?

[Sean O]

It's not like the Red Sox are like the Cubs in that over half the fans go to Fenway for a party atmosphere and don't care about the product on the field. True, many of those in Boston would hate to see Fenway go, but those die hard fans that love their Sox wouldn't stop going to root on their team just because the Red Sox no longer play in Fenway.

No, but it wouldn't surprise me if Fenway went from a place you go whenever it's remotely feasible that you can get tickets, to a place you go maybe once a year. This, of course, will lead to a dramatic change in overall consumption of tickets, leading to a dramatically lessened interest. I sense the club realizes this, and that's why there is no talk of a replacement.

I shudder to think how horribly they would screw up a new boston ballpark. After those clownish renderings of "New Fenway Park" that somehow managed to be disrespectful to everybody, it would sicken me to see a Pac Bell or PNC clone on our waterfront.

[hellborn]

I think the big problem with the upper decks today is all the luxury boxes crammed beneath them...not the lack of beams. This is one of the biggest problems with "New Comiskey". Unfortunately, I don't think those boxes are going away. I will say that I've never been in an upper deck seat that was worse than sitting on the RF roof at Fenway, but that's only because I was able to sit in "New Comiskey" without getting vertigo...the slope didn't bother me. Almost getting blown off the roof at Fenway did.
I agree that replacing Fenway with a place as tragic as the Fleet would be a tremendous disaster...I don't know why they made that place so awful. But, I love Pac Bell and I love Comerica...I'm dying to go to Camden Yards (maybe this summer!). I'd love to see the place in Pittsburgh. "New Comiskey" is tragicomic...but, I've been to new parks that are amazing, and have heard that many others are great. There's no reason a new Boston park couldn't incorporate traditional elements successfully.
I'd love to be able to get decent tickets to a game for under $100, have a shot at parking near the stadium, be able to get a beer and still keep track of the game, not have my knees pressed painfully into the seat in front of me (I feel like I have arthitis when I leave Fenway), and not have to worry about sightlines. I love the tradition of places like Fenway, Comiskey, and Tiger, but going to a ballgame shouldn't be a chore.
With some of the attitudes that are expressed here, we'd still be standing to watch games, or sitting in wooden bleachers that collapsed and caught fire all the time.

[Sean O]

I'd love to be able to get decent tickets to a game for under $100, have a shot at parking near the stadium, be able to get a beer and still keep track of the game, not have my knees pressed painfully into the seat in front of me (I feel like I have arthitis when I leave Fenway), and not have to worry about sightlines. I love the tradition of places like Fenway, Comiskey, and Tiger, but going to a ballgame shouldn't be a chore.
With some of the attitudes that are expressed here, we'd still be standing to watch games, or sitting in wooden bleachers that collapsed and caught fire all the time.

I don't get this argument, I really don't, I'm sorry. I'm 6'2, and I have no connections to the team whatsoever. I can still get to a dozen+ games a season simply through redsox.com, and this was before I went to SRO-only. Fenway rewards those who understand it in and out, and there are tremendous deals to be had. If you park at the Prudential and walk a short distance, it's $15, and seats down the LF line (which are excellent, btw), are only about $30. Yes, the entire RF line is a joke, but let the people who just want to "experience fenway" once a year take all of those seats.

I love CBP, and PNC, and Camden, but I would hate to have one for Boston baseball. The problem I have with the park is the same thing you mentioned: it would be indistinguishable from every other HOK park out there. There would be sad, offensive references to Fenway, and would otherwise be a theme park.

Unfortunately, Boston's architectural beauty is in its understated designs. The brownstones of the South End and Newbury, Faneuil Hall and the North End are all utilitarian, basic structures, which does not bode well for a park meant to be a monument. So HOK would end up re-doing the New Fenway thing no matter where it is, whether adjacent in the Fens or on the waterfront, where they copied the Fenway exterior only made it twice as tall.

Maybe when HOK is exposed as the frauds they are can we get a better chance at success. I would just be afraid of redoing Chicago's mistake: building an ugly, bland park with no connection to the city that takes 15 years, and hundreds of millions of dollars, to set right.

[stlfan]

I have comments on all of this new parks, HOK and replacing Fenway. But then I looked at the thread subject. None of this seems to be talk about Old Comiskey. So I am going to take my comments to the thread about HOK ballparks so that this thread can return to normal. Follow me!

[Brackish__4]

I don't get this argument, I really don't, I'm sorry. I'm 6'2, and I have no connections to the team whatsoever. I can still get to a dozen+ games a season simply through redsox.com, and this was before I went to SRO-only. Fenway rewards those who understand it in and out, and there are tremendous deals to be had. If you park at the Prudential and walk a short distance, it's $15, and seats down the LF line (which are excellent, btw), are only about $30. Yes, the entire RF line is a joke, but let the people who just want to "experience fenway" once a year take all of those seats.

I love CBP, and PNC, and Camden, but I would hate to have one for Boston baseball. The problem I have with the park is the same thing you mentioned: it would be indistinguishable from every other HOK park out there. There would be sad, offensive references to Fenway, and would otherwise be a theme park.

Unfortunately, Boston's architectural beauty is in its understated designs. The brownstones of the South End and Newbury, Faneuil Hall and the North End are all utilitarian, basic structures, which does not bode well for a park meant to be a monument. So HOK would end up re-doing the New Fenway thing no matter where it is, whether adjacent in the Fens or on the waterfront, where they copied the Fenway exterior only made it twice as tall.

Maybe when HOK is exposed as the frauds they are can we get a better chance at success. I would just be afraid of redoing Chicago's mistake: building an ugly, bland park with no connection to the city that takes 15 years, and hundreds of millions of dollars, to set right.

To be completely honest, and with all team-biases aside, Fenway is a terribly ugly ballpark. You speak of it as if it was Old Yankee Stadium, or Old Comiskey Park, which were downright beautiful and breathtaking ballparks.

[hellborn]

I don't get this argument, I really don't, I'm sorry. I'm 6'2, and I have no connections to the team whatsoever. I can still get to a dozen+ games a season simply through redsox.com, and this was before I went to SRO-only. Fenway rewards those who understand it in and out, and there are tremendous deals to be had. If you park at the Prudential and walk a short distance, it's $15, and seats down the LF line (which are excellent, btw), are only about $30. Yes, the entire RF line is a joke, but let the people who just want to "experience fenway" once a year take all of those seats.

...

We probably should move this if discussion along this line needs to continue...maybe to the Bosox forum, Sean O? Sorry to Old Comiskey posters...
I'm 6'2" also, and most seats at Fenway are extremely uncomfortable to me due to a lack of legroom...I usually sit in grandstand, and hobble to the train like I'm crippled after the game. I try redsox.com every season as early as I can get on a PC the day tickets are available and get nothing. I'm lucky that I have friends who ply the lines with multiple phones when tix are on sale that way, have sneak paths through the website when those tix are available, and stand in line at the box office from the wee hours with the scalper's employees when it first opens. I think that everybody is aware that Fenway tickets are extremely hard to come by, and that's why they can command 2-3 times face from resellers.
The only thing that I can think of is that you are buying single tickets. Isolated seats between groups of season tickets are typically available for some time.
And, you're right, anything down the LF line is pretty good for Fenway.

[six4three]

Stats might be hard to find and make complete sense of...I used to spend time at a bar close to old Tiger, will never think of the name, and felt comfortable parking near there and walking to it before and after the game. It was a working class place, but it was friendly enough. We always got in and out of Comiskey FAST...last time I went to the new park, we were stuck in traffic getting out of the lot, and an endless stream of bums with spray bottles and rags accosted our car. We would try to give them a dollar to NOT TOUCH the car, but they would smear grime on the windshield anyway and want $5. They weren't asking nice, either. Horrible experience.
I guess everybody has their own perceptions and experiences...Comiskey area=nice and Tiger area=not nice doesn't make any sense to me, though.


Stats should be easy to find. Most police departments are required to keep some kind of crime statistics by precinct - see how far back the records go for whatever precinct contained the corner of Michigan & Trumbull.

Otherwise, it's just your impression, and the impression of others that "Tiger Stadium neighborhood = demilitarized zone" is equally valid.

[six4three]

We probably should move this if discussion along this line needs to continue...maybe to the Bosox forum, Sean O? Sorry to Old Comiskey posters...

A new topic might be good, but please keep it here on the stadium boards - loving this conversation, and am eager to here more Red Sox fan impressions of the proposed new staduim plan and how they would react to another.

[hellborn]

Stats should be easy to find. Most police departments are required to keep some kind of crime statistics by precinct - see how far back the records go for whatever precinct contained the corner of Michigan & Trumbull.

Otherwise, it's just your impression, and the impression of others that "Tiger Stadium neighborhood = demilitarized zone" is equally valid.

You are correct, just my impression...although, I did hang around the area multiple times without incident or feeling threatened. Maybe I just picked the days when the locals were low on ammo...
:laugh
I wasn't saying that I'd like to buy a house around there, just didn't see how somebody could reasonably say that they found the area around Tiger threatening but not have any issue with Comiskey's neighborhood. And, I did live in both the Chicago and Detroit areas, wasn't just passing through.

[mandrake]

You are correct, just my impression...although, I did hang around the area multiple times without incident or feeling threatened. Maybe I just picked the days when the locals were low on ammo...
:laugh
I wasn't saying that I'd like to buy a house around there, just didn't see how somebody could reasonably say that they found the area around Tiger threatening but not have any issue with Comiskey's neighborhood. And, I did live in both the Chicago and Detroit areas, wasn't just passing through.

Maybe we can have a thread on unsafe vs safe experiences in various ball parks and the surrounding neighborhoods. I recall when we used to joke that the safest day to go to Yankee Stadium was Bat day, because at least you had a weapon for self defense !

[POLO GROUNDS 1957]

This is from a 1990 program cover. i sat only a couple sections away from were this litho is for the last game in 1990. the seats were great.

[Mario Mendoza...HOF Lock]

I cross posted these on the construction thread, but they deserve to be here as well

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3012/2554272773_32a4408c93_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3183/2555097352_07e6ddc411_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3044/2554272837_e0e30ffa1d_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3068/2554273015_e958cb6c59_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2395/2554273107_6cbf326e09_o.jpg

Here's some more of the Sox-Yanks game from 1961

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2001/2542713775_a47d42004e_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3044/2555278258_6cd4d175f6_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3090/2543540102_0c6df327f5_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3186/2543539850_d96533248b_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3046/2542712967_979f22e703_b.jpg

[Mario Mendoza...HOF Lock]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3079/2542712649_0ac80ce9c7_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2146/2542712395_0b5a451395_b.jpg

[J.R.]

I liked her better before they painted the seats lime green.

[DaBigMotor]

Had no idea that the seats were blue.....

[stlfan]

I like them blue better too. Maybe that was also a reason for making the seats at New Comiskey blue originally. Looking at the pics, it looks as though in the oufield fans only wanted to sit directly under the upper deck or the roof.

[J.R.]

Looking at the pics, it looks as though in the oufield fans only wanted to sit directly under the upper deck or the roof.

Seats in back of the poles were cheaper than those in front.

[Brackish__4]

I truly believe that a stadium somehow changes how people view the team. For example, the White Sox won the World Series in 2005, yet they are almost a non-factor around the country compared to the Cubs, who garner a national audience. If the 2005 White Sox won the World Series in Old Comiskey Park, I think they would have been a national sensation as well. If this theory is correct, then the Yankees as we know them will never be the same, as they are also abandoning a classic stadium.

[whoisonit]

I truly believe that a stadium somehow changes how people view the team. For example, the White Sox won the World Series in 2005, yet they are almost a non-factor around the country compared to the Cubs, who garner a national audience. If the 2005 White Sox won the World Series in Old Comiskey Park, I think they would have been a national sensation as well. If this theory is correct, then the Yankees as we know them will never be the same, as they are also abandoning a classic stadium.

I understand what you're saying but in some ways I don't agree. Certianly the Dodgers have often been media darlings at different times over the years and they not only changed parks, they changed cities ! Dodger Stadium is a jewel, just a great place to see a ball game and filled with history. I think the White Sox suffer more from the lack of trendy yuppie types that flock to Wrigley and carry with them a more powerful economic demographic than the working class on the south side.
It's this same yuppie wanna-be demo that has jumped on the Yankee bandwagon these last ten years that fuels the media fawning over them.
Certianly though, in the eyes of real baseball fans, the whole YS 'mystique' is over once they move accross the street. The Wall Street wanna-be's that latch onto the Yankees will keep them as media darlings, but yes, they'll never be the same once they abandon YS.

[J.R.]

I think the White Sox suffer more from the lack of trendy yuppie types that flock to Wrigley and carry with them a more powerful economic demographic than the working class on the south side.

The Cubs have more fans of all stripes and walks of life, not just among the rich.

[Philtration]

Slide show of Comiskey's last years and the sad demolition.

http://ballparks.phanfare.com/slideshow.aspx?username=ballparks&album_id=338350&section_id=-1

[Philtration]

The Cubs have more fans of all stripes and walks of life, not just among the rich.

Wrigley Field has more fans than U.S Cellular.
I personally know Cub fans who claim that they would never trade the White Sox championship in 2005 for playing in a new ballpark. That is dumb at best and shows that the actual baseball is not at the top of the list as far as being a Cub fan goes.
There is no need to get into whether most of the fans at Wrigley are baseball fans or just going to the tourist attraction/beer garden.
I live here, have been to Wrigley many times and I know the difference. Between the shrine and WGN the Cubs do a great marketing job of their product. Wrigley Field.

That is fine for the people who really don’t care what happens on the field and there are many of them who flock to Clark & Addison.
I do not blame them for cashing in on something like the atmosphere of the ballpark because they have offered very little winning baseball to sell to the fans over the years so they go with what works.
Cuteness over winning.
Flash over substance.
Hype over results.
Tickets over titles.

[banko]

Whether one group of steroid-laced, millionaire, sissy-boys defeats another is of little concern.

Ahhh...but those 'Green Cathedrals'...where we, as young boys, were 'initiated-into' the rites of cigar smoke.

We have only Fenway and Wrigley left.

Like mine, their plumbing 'suffers'.

But, the Cubbies and Sox could be 30 games behind, and the parks would be packed.

Fenway and Wrigley.

The only true cathedrals in the Land.

[banko]

This site is one of the most popular baseball sites on the Internet.

Why is this forum the most popular on the site?

They ARE going to tear-down one of our great cathedrals...Briggs Stadium.

It's like tearing-down Chartres.

Literally.

A half-century ago, I, as a ten-year-old, would...like a child awaiting Santa Claus, turn the TV on, at 10 a.m. to watch the Thanksgiving Day game.

No luxury boxes then.

That was before we became Rome.

If Forbes Field were standing today, people would come from TAIWAN to see it.

HOK simply tries to re-create...a la Disneyland...the glory of what our ballparks were.

And, that's OK.

If it gives our young people a 'taste' of what ballparks were, that's great.

When they tear-down Briggs, the 'skies will weap'...and so will I.

[monkeypants]

They ARE going to tear-down one of our great cathedrals...Briggs Stadium.

It's like tearing-down Chartres.

Literally.



That is an interesting use of the word "literal." I for one have a hard time comparing a ball park built in 1910 to Gothic cathedral built in the 12th century.

[banko]

But, I 'come from a different era'.

http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/member.jsp?player_id=29

Players used to, when they took to offense, leave their gloves on the field.

http://www.baseballdirect.com/lineup.html#228

And, they had off-season jobs.

They were OK with the plumbing at Wrigley or Fenway.

Now:

"Oooo...Mr. Manager, the temperature of the Jacuzzi is too cold".

The orthopedic surgeon of Mickey Mantle 'regaled' his students with X-rays of Mick's knees...asking them what the prognosis of this patient would be.

They replied that such a patient would be in a wheelchair.

Mick, of course, smoked in the dugout.

lol.

[banko]

(Banko does his best Grandpa Simpson)

Young'ins have corporate naming rights.

I had George Halas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Halas

[banko]

That is an interesting use of the word "literal." I for one have a hard time comparing a ball park built in 1910 to Gothic cathedral built in the 12th century.

k.

Can you give me a better analogy for the most 'important' structures in America?

[banko]

I've been to Washington's cathedral.

http://www.cathedral.org/cathedral/

There were maybe 10 people there.

Over a half-million views by people who are 'passionate' about the 'wonder' that is the American ballpark 'proves me right'.

Sue me.

[banko]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qXkcPQUfJM

[banko]

Cathedrals?


'You bet'.

[banko]

http://www.fieldofdreamsmoviesite.com/distance.html

[banko]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGH_mtib9fo

I got to visit War Memorial Stadium...right-after the filming.

The 'painstaking' detail they took in re-creating a 30's ballpark was amazing.

They didn't spend those millions 'for nothing'.


They spent it to 'touch our souls'.

[banko]

"Ray, people will come Ray. They'll come to Iowa for reasons they can't even fathom. They'll turn up your driveway not knowing for sure why they're doing it. They'll arrive at your door as innocent as children, longing for the past. Of course, we won't mind if you look around, you'll say. It's only $20 per person. They'll pass over the money without even thinking about it: for it is money they have and peace they lack. And they'll walk out to the bleachers; sit in shirtsleeves on a perfect afternoon. They'll find they have reserved seats somewhere along one of the baselines, where they sat when they were children and cheered their heroes. And they'll watch the game and it'll be as if they dipped themselves in magic waters. The memories will be so thick they'll have to brush them away from their faces. People will come Ray. The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It has been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. This field, this game: it's a part of our past, Ray. It reminds of us of all that once was good and it could be again. Oh... people will come Ray. People will most definitely come."