Our Brooklyn Dodger History!

[penncentralpete]

Dodger pitchers:

[penncentralpete]

Sandy Koufax:

[shotten1947]

Great pictures, fun to look at.

[penncentralpete]

Great pictures, fun to look at.

thank you kindly. if you enjoyed these photos, peek over at my brooklyn dodgers' photos thread for many more.

[shotten1947]

That Hodges photo really shows just how large Gil's hand were. Pee Wee Reese used to say Gil's hands were so large he didn't need to wear a glove.

[penncentralpete]

That Hodges photo really shows just how large Gil's hand were. Pee Wee Reese used to say Gil's hands were so large he didn't need to wear a glove.
is it possible..........i read somewhere many years ago that gil's span (end of thumb to end of pinky) of his right hand was 18" and his left was 15". is this possible? wow.

[Greg_DiGiovanna]

Does anyone out there in Brooklyn Dodger land know if "The Brow" had a uniform number? Or, if not, if anything was on the back of his uniform?

thanks

opieo
I am the oldest son of Charlie DiGiovanna, Greg, and Charlie did wear a full uniform while he was the Dodger Batboy without a number on his back. In fact, I had the last (Brooklyn) uniform he owned until a few years ago and it had no number on it.

[vaughnlm]

We have an old glass negative - see attached . . . I'm told it is Roy Campanella . . . Does anyone agree?

[Yankeebiscuitfan]

Absolutely. This one was shown in another thread as well. There someone thought that it was a Boston Red Sox player.

[DODGER DEB]

We have an old glass negative - see attached . . . I'm told it is Roy Campanella . . . Does anyone agree?

This photo is absolutely ROY CAMPANELLA!

c.

[Shotgun Shuba]

Who can name this obscure Brook? Don't cheat!

picture from Walteromalley.com

[DODGER DEB]

Who can name this obscure Brook? Don't cheat!

picture from Walteromalley.com

I think that is RENE VALDEZ!

c.

[Shotgun Shuba]

Bingo!

To say you know your Dodgers would be an understatement, DD.

He pitched in 5 games in the Majors, going 1-1.

Then he disappeared into the fog of time...

[DODGER DEB]

Bingo!

To say you know your Dodgers would be an understatement, DD.

He pitched in 5 games in the Majors, going 1-1.

Then he disappeared into the fog of time...

Well, everyone here has heard me say (more than once) that my sister DEBS and I always sat down in OUR bullpen...and that is where Rene always was when he was with OUR Team.

He couldn't speak a word of English, but everyday he would come to the Bullpen and give US the biggest smile, while waving hello. He really was a very nice guy.

c.

[Yankeebiscuitfan]

I thought this was quite unique. I have never seen it before.

[Yankeebiscuitfan]

Maybe it is off topic, but I think Vin Scully is also part of your history.

I am watching an Angels-Dodgers game. Scully is calling the game. Is it just me or is the guy straight dull. He is talking with a very tendious voice... :yawn:

[stejay]

http://www.medaloffreedom.com/JackieRobinsonwithgroup.jpg
http://www.baseballforum.com/attachments/baseball-history-teams-yester-year/34d1150927357-brooklyn-dodgers-1955-dodgers-snider-labine-hodges-campy
http://www.crossingwallstreet.com/archives/Brooklyn_Dodgers_1955.jpg

[Spirit of '55]

Friends:

Still unable to sleep consistently, I took my sudden fetish for Brooklyn Dodger caps and created this three panel set last night. Framed on heavy stock paper, it looks great. I think I invented a new collectible! :homeplate:

[Spirit of '55]

Friends:

Is there any record of Stanley "Arkie" Spitzer playing for our team? I know he played for the Dodger organization in the Minors in the 1940s (Pacific Coast League), and later became a well-known umpire, but someone I know insists he was on the Dodger roster. I can't find any reference to him. :homeplate:

[DODGER DEB]

Friends:

Still unable to sleep consistently, I took my sudden fetish for Brooklyn Dodger caps and created this three panel set last night. Framed on heavy stock paper, it looks great. I think I invented a new collectible! :homeplate:


THAT is one terrific piece, So'55! Very nice work!

I can picture it on my wall, along side all my other great wonders that I gaze at constantly.

c.

[penncentralpete]

Friends:

Still unable to sleep consistently, I took my sudden fetish for Brooklyn Dodger caps and created this three panel set last night. Framed on heavy stock paper, it looks great. I think I invented a new collectible! :homeplate:

Hello Spirit of '55: I thoroughly enjoyed your work re: Brooklyn caps, etc. Nice job. Hope you feel better and are able to sleep soon. I specifically liked that you pointed out Dodger "blue" has changed hue since 1957. I agree 100%. This is why my search for the "perfect" Brooklyn cap continues...........

[Spirit of '55]

Friends:

Thanks for the kind words and encouragements. This has been a difficult time in my life for many reasons, and "Following The Dodgers" is a great escape for me.

If anyone on the Forum wants to make an instant collectible set, purchase three certificate frames at your local Office Stapledepotmax. These are the ones with the clear plexiglass fronts held in place by four little brass nails. The frame color is a matter of taste. Either black or cherry is available.

Print the pages out on a good stock paper (I used Southworth Granite in Ivory because it is a close match to the matting of the Ebbets Field and Teammates photomints I own), place them behind the plexiglass fronts, and hammer away---Presto! Your own Spirit of '55 Original Collectible Brooklyn Dodgers Historical Plaques.

They are suitable for framing. ("Hey Mac! Dey alreddy is framed! Joik!")

I decided to share this with you all and put it in the public domain as a way of saying thanks for all the enjoyment I've gotten being a member of this Forum. I may not post every day, but I check in regularly, and this virtual Clubhouse brings me so much relief from the burdens of the day. Thank you all.

It's said that the Dodgers rarely went straight home after a game; instead, they stayed with each other, dissected their game the good and the bad, and talked baseball with a cool professionalism nobody could match.

We're the heirs to that Clubhouse.

Yours in Brooklyn When The Boys of Summer Come Home Again,

Jeff Minde aka Spirit of '55 :homeplate:

[Lpeters199]

Sports Illustrated photo of Ebbets Field.

42303

[Lpeters199]

Can anyone tell me why the bottom of the right field wall was slanted?

[Lpeters199]

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1134505/index.htm

[Lpeters199]

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1088846/index.htm

[Lpeters199]

For many Ebbets Field pictures, click on the past auction box on the left of this page, then search for Ebbets Field in the upper search box. Lots of good stuff!

Also click on the past auction box, then search for Brookyn Dodgers in the upper search box. Again, much good material.

http://lelands.com/default.aspx

[Brownie31]

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p123/OswaldTheOsprey/AIAP7/AIAP8/AIAP9/AIAP10/robbieaug30.jpg
Uncle Robbie makes the cover of Time Aug. 25, 1930.

Brownie31

[Spirit of '55]

Friends:

Thought I'd share this moment in time.:homeplate:

[Brownie31]

Brooklyn's history endures. I realize politics is not looked well upon in Baseball Fever, but I hope an exception will be made for this cartoon from J.D. Crowe of The Mobile Press-Register

Brownie31

[Lprof]

I am wondering if someone can guide me in finding a box score of a particular game between the Dodgers and Giants in 1951. Don Newcombe pitched against Monte Kennedy. It is the first game I ever attended, at the age of 5. My father took me; six months later he was dead. I have a photograph that he took (we were in the first row on the first base side) of Jackie Robinson being held on by Whitey Lockman. Jake Pitler, the first base coach, is also in the picture. I had it enlarged and have it featured on my desk at work. But it occurs to me that, other than the pitchers and the fact that the Dodgers won, I have absolutely no recollection of the game. As I get older, I find myself thinking back on my youth as a Dodger fan more and more.

Any suggestions would be very much appreciated.

[VIBaseball]

I am wondering if someone can guide me in finding a box score of a particular game between the Dodgers and Giants in 1951. Don Newcombe pitched against Monte Kennedy. It is the first game I ever attended, at the age of 5. My father took me; six months later he was dead. I have a photograph that he took (we were in the first row on the first base side) of Jackie Robinson being held on by Whitey Lockman. Jake Pitler, the first base coach, is also in the picture. I had it enlarged and have it featured on my desk at work. But it occurs to me that, other than the pitchers and the fact that the Dodgers won, I have absolutely no recollection of the game. As I get older, I find myself thinking back on my youth as a Dodger fan more and more.

Any suggestions would be very much appreciated.

Go to www.paperofrecord.com and look up The Sporting News, lprof. Based on your memory of the dates involved, you should be able to find a box score. Unfortunately, it's just a little too early for retrosheet.

[penncentralpete]

I am wondering if someone can guide me in finding a box score of a particular game between the Dodgers and Giants in 1951. Don Newcombe pitched against Monte Kennedy. It is the first game I ever attended, at the age of 5. My father took me; six months later he was dead. I have a photograph that he took (we were in the first row on the first base side) of Jackie Robinson being held on by Whitey Lockman. Jake Pitler, the first base coach, is also in the picture. I had it enlarged and have it featured on my desk at work. But it occurs to me that, other than the pitchers and the fact that the Dodgers won, I have absolutely no recollection of the game. As I get older, I find myself thinking back on my youth as a Dodger fan more and more.

Any suggestions would be very much appreciated.

Hello: In researching the Dodgers' 1951 season, there were no games that Newcombe pitched against Monte Kennedy in a starting role. Monte only started 5 games (out of 29) that summer, and none of those starts were vs. Brooklyn. Perhaps you remember Kennedy pitching in a relief situation, but there are no boxscores for all the '51 season available. BTW, I was 5 years old in 1951 also!

[Lprof]

Thanks to all for the replies. I am, frankly, quite shaken by the news that Kennedy never pitched against Newcombe in '51; my memory of it is so vivid, yet it seems to have been incorrect all of this time. Perhaps it was, in fact, in a relief role.

I guess with things as they are in the world today, focusing on a question like this seems rather ridiculous, but to me it underscores what is so special about baseball in general and the Brooklyn Dodgers in particular: the way baseball and the Dodgers helped families bond. That 1951 game is perhaps my strongest memory of my father.

I have lived in Chicago for many years and am now an avid White Sox fan (as a transplanted Met fan in the 1970s, I couldn't bring myself to root for the Cubs). I will never forget sharing the 2005 championship with my two daughters, who are as avid in their fandom as I am. For me, however, it will never be quite the same as the Dodger championship exactly 50 years earlier.

[Lprof]

On a related note, I have one other question: Is the new Mets stadium sufficiently reminiscent of Ebbets Field to justify a special trip to Queens next season, for nostalgia purposes? Thanks.

[DODGER DEB]

Thanks to all for the replies. I am, frankly, quite shaken by the news that Kennedy never pitched against Newcombe in '51; my memory of it is so vivid, yet it seems to have been incorrect all of this time. Perhaps it was, in fact, in a relief role.

I guess with things as they are in the world today, focusing on a question like this seems rather ridiculous, but to me it underscores what is so special about baseball in general and the Brooklyn Dodgers in particular: the way baseball and the Dodgers helped families bond. That 1951 game is perhaps my strongest memory of my father.

I have lived in Chicago for many years and am now an avid White Sox fan (as a transplanted Met fan in the 1970s, I couldn't bring myself to root for the Cubs). I will never forget sharing the 2005 championship with my two daughters, who are as avid in their fandom as I am. For me, however, it will never be quite the same as the Dodger championship exactly 50 years earlier.

Nice to hear from you once again, Lprof.

Your sentiments and feelings are exactly what many of US here on BBF have been trying to convey for several years. To those of US who lived it, OUR DODGERS will always hold strong and treasured memories.....and nothing else in baseball, before or since, will come close to matching it.

As for your question about the Ebbets Field Rotunda at the new CitiField Park, let's put it this way, it is the closest replica to OUR Ebbets Field that MLB will ever undertake. For that, I personally will always be grateful to Fred Wilpon. He is the one person, here in NYC, who sees the merit of holding on to a great part of NYC history...and honoring OUR DODGERS.

c.

[VIBaseball]

Lprof, I take it the game was played at Ebbets, right?

On July 5, Newcombe beat the Giants 8-4 at Ebbets. Kennedy pitched the last 1/3 of an inning. But Monte Irvin played first for the Giants that day.

On August 8, Newcombe started but did not get the decision in a 10-inning Dodgers win. It was the second game of a doubleheader, which doesn't sound like the kind of thing a dad would take his five-year-old to. Kennedy did not pitch.

On September 8, Newcombe rolled, 9-0. However, Kennedy did not pitch.

If the game was at the Polo Grounds, we can search on. And a ballpark date would help too.

[Ralph Zig Tyko]

Nice to hear from you once again, Lprof.

Your sentiments and feelings are exactly what many of US here on BBF have been trying to convey for several years. To those of US who lived it, OUR DODGERS will always hold strong and treasured memories.....and nothing else in baseball, before or since, will come close to matching it.

As for your question about the Ebbets Field Rotunda at the new CitiField Park, let's put it this way, it is the closest replica to OUR Ebbets Field that MLB will ever undertake. For that, I personally will always be grateful to Fred Wilpon. He is the one person, here in NYC, who sees the merit of holding on to a great part of NYC history...and honoring OUR DODGERS.

c.

Born a New York Giants fan, I've been a Mets fan from their inception.
Wilpon needs to pay equal homage to MY GIANTS.

[Spirit of '55]

Friends:

I managed to capture this online. That's Casey Stengel at upper left, next to George Cutshaw. Uncle Robbie is unmistakable.:homeplate:

[Lprof]

Lprof, I take it the game was played at Ebbets, right?

On July 5, Newcombe beat the Giants 8-4 at Ebbets. Kennedy pitched the last 1/3 of an inning. But Monte Irvin played first for the Giants that day.

On August 8, Newcombe started but did not get the decision in a 10-inning Dodgers win. It was the second game of a doubleheader, which doesn't sound like the kind of thing a dad would take his five-year-old to. Kennedy did not pitch.

On September 8, Newcombe rolled, 9-0. However, Kennedy did not pitch.

If the game was at the Polo Grounds, we can search on. And a ballpark date would help too.

Thank you so much; you obviously went to a good deal of trouble, and I very much appreciate it.
I forgot to mention that as I recall (and I am no longer willing to rely on that), the final score was Dodgers 2 Giants 0; it was at Ebbets Field, and was a day game. It is clearly Lockman holding Robinson on in the picture. One other point to note about the picture: looking at the left field stands, it is amazing to me how few people are at the game.
Oh, one other thing: there is another picture of my brother and me, and we are in tee shirts, so it is unlikely that the game was early in the season.

[VIBaseball]

Could this be it?

Don Newcombe threw a 2-0 shutout over the Giants at Ebbets Field on Saturday, September 2, 1950. The attendance was 15,410. Monte Kennedy pitched one inning in relief of Larry Jansen.

The only thing that doesn't fit in the box scores is that Whitey Lockman is listed as the left fielder that day, with Monte Irvin playing 1B. However, the account of the game mentions that Irvin committed a key error. It's quite possible that Leo Durocher flip-flopped them.

Robinson looks to have reached base twice, once on a walk (going to third on Irvin's error and scoring on Cox's single) and from what I can deduce, on another walk.

[DODGER DEB]

Born a New York Giants fan, I've been a Mets fan from their inception.
Wilpon needs to pay equal homage to MY GIANTS.

I agree with you, Ralph. The NY Giants should also be honored. Please keep in mind that Fred was brought up in the shadows of OUR Ebbets Field and was a BROOKLYN DODGER fan.

But, my point simply is that Fred Wilpon is the only one (in a position of power, political or otherwise), that has acknowledged OUR DODGERS contribution to both Baseball and NYC history...and has put his money where his mouth is.

c.

[Ralph Zig Tyko]

I agree with you, Ralph. The NY Giants should also be honored. Please keep in mind that Fred was brought up in the shadows of OUR Ebbets Field and was a BROOKLYN DODGER fan.

But, my point simply is that Fred Wilpon is the only one (in a position of power, political or otherwise), that has acknowledged OUR DODGERS contribution to both Baseball and NYC history...and has put his money where his mouth is.

c.
Deb, I'm reminded of the Peter, Paul, and Mary folk song. "If religion were a thing that money could buy, the rich would live and the poor would die."

[Lprof]

Lprof, I take it the game was played at Ebbets, right?

On July 5, Newcombe beat the Giants 8-4 at Ebbets. Kennedy pitched the last 1/3 of an inning. But Monte Irvin played first for the Giants that day.

On August 8, Newcombe started but did not get the decision in a 10-inning Dodgers win. It was the second game of a doubleheader, which doesn't sound like the kind of thing a dad would take his five-year-old to. Kennedy did not pitch.

On September 8, Newcombe rolled, 9-0. However, Kennedy did not pitch.

If the game was at the Polo Grounds, we can search on. And a ballpark date would help too.

I just looked at the photo again, and I could be wrong about Lockman playing first; I guess I just assumed it. The first baseman has his back to the camera, and it is conceivable he is African American. His number ends in a 0; the first number is obscured. I don't know Irvin's number, but if it ended in a 0, then it is probably him and that would make it the July 5 game; I could recall Kennedy pitching because he did get into the game. Thanks to all.

[Lprof]

Could this be it?

Don Newcombe threw a 2-0 shutout over the Giants at Ebbets Field on Saturday, September 2, 1950. The attendance was 15,410. Monte Kennedy pitched one inning in relief of Larry Jansen.

The only thing that doesn't fit in the box scores is that Whitey Lockman is listed as the left fielder that day, with Monte Irvin playing 1B. However, the account of the game mentions that Irvin committed a key error. It's quite possible that Leo Durocher flip-flopped them.

Robinson looks to have reached base twice, once on a walk (going to third on Irvin's error and scoring on Cox's single) and from what I can deduce, on another walk.
Wow; except for my recollection of the year, this sounds like it, especially given that I now think the first baseman in the photo might actually be Irvin. The adds on the left field billboards in the photo say "Ehlers" and "Michaels & Co.", though I don't know if that tells anything about the year. I would have already turned 5 by September.

[Lprof]

Wow; except for my recollection of the year, this sounds like it, especially given that I now think the first baseman in the photo might actually be Irvin. The adds on the left field billboards in the photo say "Ehlers" and "Michaels & Co.", though I don't know if that tells anything about the year. I would have already turned 5 by September.
I just found out on line that during the relevant years Irvin wore number 20, so I am now thinking the game was that Sept. 1950 game. I must simply have the year wrong; everything else fits. Thanks for all of your help.

[VIBaseball]

You're welcome...I enjoy this kind of detective work. :)

To get the box score and stories, go to www.probaseballarchive.com and search on the specific day September 3, 1950. Newcombe will work as the search term.

It'll be quick and easy...and clear. The Sporting News with that box score from a week or so later is very blurry.

[Spirit of '55]

Friends:

I have been collecting and framing photographs of the various BROOKLYN DODGERS Pennant-winning teams. As of now I have 1956, 1955, 1953, 1952, 1949, 1947, 1941, 1916, 1900 (?), 1890and 1889.

The 1900 team photo is sometimes identified as the 1899 team, or vice-versa. I'm not certain which I have. I cannot find a photo of the 1920 team anywhere.

If anybody can point me in the right direction on these, I'd appreciate it. Thanks! :homeplate:

[DauntlessDave]

From the June 1925 Baseball Magazine...

[VIBaseball]

I note with interest the location of the Ken-Wel company, Dave. Gloversville, NY lived up to its name -- it was a leather-goods town. I'm not sure if the industry still survives there, though. It had to have been the model for the fictional town of Mohawk in novelist Richard Russo's book of the same name. Russo (Nobody's Fool, among other fine, funny works) is a native of Gloversville.

[DauntlessDave]

I note with interest the location of the Ken-Wel company, Dave. Gloversville, NY lived up to its name -- it was a leather-goods town. I'm not sure if the industry still survives there, though. It had to have been the model for the fictional town of Mohawk in novelist Richard Russo's book of the same name. Russo (Nobody's Fool, among other fine, funny works) is a native of Gloversville.


VIBaseball,

Wow! I didn't even notice the name of the town, "Golversville." I haven't read Mohawk, but Nobody's Fool is great. I'll check it out. Thanks for the heads up!

-Dave

[VIBaseball]

In the tribute to Neil Diamond that kicked off Grammy Weekend, Neil himself had this to say:

"I started taking guitar lessons when the Brooklyn Dodgers left Brooklyn. I was so depressed. My parents bought a guitar and paid it off $1 a week, for 10 weeks. It was a good investment, Mom. You made a life for me."

Which other celebrities were Brooklyn Dodgers fans? I can think of Milton Berle and poetess Marianne Moore.

[VIBaseball]

This article today notes that Charlie Manuel, manager of the champion Phillies, was a Brooklyn Dodgers fan when he was a boy.

"Charlie Manuel dreamed of playing for the Brooklyn Dodgers, not managing them. As a child, he would hit rocks with a stick for hours on end in the yard of his Buena Vista home, all the while imagining hitting home runs and shagging fly balls at Ebbets Field, the home of his Brooklyn heroes."

I wondered how a Virginia kid got attached to the Dodgers? This story doesn't say, but I saw a couple of other stories. Apparently he listened to their games on the radio with his grandfather..

http://www.newsadvance.com/lna/sports/other/article/manuels_success_story_began_after_his_playing_days _ended/13469/

[VIBaseball]

This post could just as easily have gone in the Literature, Photo, or Blue Lens/Barney Stein threads. But I decided to put it here.

The book below was published in 1954, a year before the championship. It looks like quite the collectors' item ($60 on eBay, $82 on Amazon). The combination of Barber's words and Stein's photos mean it's probably a little gem.

[penncentralpete]

This post could just as easily have gone in the Literature, Photo, or Blue Lens/Barney Stein threads. But I decided to put it here.

The book below was published in 1954, a year before the championship. It looks like quite the collectors' item ($60 on eBay, $82 on Amazon). The combination of Barber's words and Stein's photos mean it's probably a little gem.

A nice hard cover first edition of this tome just sold (a minute ago) for $9.99

[VIBaseball]

This article celebrates the 100th birthday of Pat Crouch, the widow of Bill Crouch, who went 4-0, 2.58 in six games for the '39 Dodgers.

http://www.mlive.com/news/livingston/index.ssf/2009/02/brighton_lady_celebrates_100th.html

Crouch, who passed away in 1980 at the age of 70, followed an unusual path to the majors. As the New York Times wrote on March 19, 1939:

"A 29-year-old public playgrounds director from Ypsilanti, Mich., with less than four years of experience in professional baseball, may become a member of the 1939 Dodger pitching staff if Lippy Durocher has the right hunch."

However, he spent most of that season as well as 1940 with Montreal before Brooklyn traded him along with Mickey Livingston, Vito Tamulis, and $100,000 to the Phillies for Kirby Higbe.

[VIBaseball]

Add Jerry Reinsdorf, owner of the Chicago White Sox and Bulls, to the list. He grew up in Brooklyn, apparently near Ebbets, and was a big fan of Reese and Robinson (as plenty of news stories over the years attest).

[VIBaseball]

Something I hadn't known until I saw a couple of his obituaries was that the late Hall of Famer George Kell was originally a Brooklyn prospect. However, they were overloaded with third basemen at the Class B level, and so he was released in 1942. He became a regular for the A's starting in 1944; the Brooklyn third baseman was then Frenchy Bordagaray, who stayed through 1945. Cookie Lavagetto got most of the time in '46, followed by Spider Jorgensen in '47. Billy Cox then arrived. But how might things have turned out with Kell at the hot corner?

Here's a 1994 article from Baseball Digest with more detail:

http://books.google.com/books?id=zyoDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA63&dq=%22George+Kell%22+Dodgers

[Lprof]

Add Jerry Reinsdorf, owner of the Chicago White Sox and Bulls, to the list. He grew up in Brooklyn, apparently near Ebbets, and was a big fan of Reese and Robinson (as plenty of news stories over the years attest).

Though in my early years I grew up as an avid Brooklyn Dodger fan, I have lived for many years in Chicago and have become a White Sox fan. I recall when the Sox almost moved to St. Pete in 88; I wrote to Reinsdorf, asking if he wanted to be remembered by Chicago kids the same way he and I both remembered O'Malley. I got a form reply, but somehow at the last minute (actually, 5 minutes passed the deadline, but the Speaker moved the clock back) the state legislature voted to build a new stadium, and the Sox stayed in Chicago.

Has anyone read the new book; I think its title is "Forever Blue"? (If the book has already been discussed on this sight, I apologize, but I missed it). It follows the same Michael Shapiro line that O'Malley really would have stayed but Moses was the villain.

I have two problems with the thesis: First, the O'Malley apologizers can't have it both ways: they say both that O'Malley would have stayed, AND that he was a true visionary for moving out West. But if he really would have stayed (which I don't believe for a second), then he couldn't really have been a visionary, now could he?

Second, what I don't understand is how everyone can jump from the fact (assumed for the moment) that no stadium could be built in Brooklyn to the conclusion that therefore the team had to move 3000 miles away. Moses offered the Flushing sight; while it would have been tragic for Brooklyn, perhaps it was time for it to realize that it wasn't its own city anymore, but rather part of NYC. Moreover, many from there had moved to Long Island, where I grew up. Queens was even easier to get to, and the team still would have been ours. I wouldn't have lost the best years of my childhood as a result.

[aqib]

Lprof,

Can you tell us what that form reply said? Just curious

[chinese home run]

This article today notes that Charlie Manuel, manager of the champion Phillies, was a Brooklyn Dodgers fan when he was a boy.

"Charlie Manuel dreamed of playing for the Brooklyn Dodgers, not managing them. As a child, he would hit rocks with a stick for hours on end in the yard of his Buena Vista home, all the while imagining hitting home runs and shagging fly balls at Ebbets Field, the home of his Brooklyn heroes."

I wondered how a Virginia kid got attached to the Dodgers? This story doesn't say, but I saw a couple of other stories. Apparently he listened to their games on the radio with his grandfather..

http://www.newsadvance.com/lna/sports/other/article/manuels_success_story_began_after_his_playing_days _ended/13469/

The article didn't say anything about it, but it's a good bet that he listened to the recreations that were done by Nat Allbright from a station in Virginia. I think he was based out of Alexandria, but it wouldn't have surprised me if there were several other affiliates in Virginia that broadcast his recreations as well. That's only a wild guess, though.

[Number 4]

The article didn't say anything about it, but it's a good bet that he listened to the recreations that were done by Nat Allbright from a station in Virginia. I think he was based out of Alexandria, but it wouldn't have surprised me if there were several other affiliates in Virginia that broadcast his recreations as well. That's only a wild guess, though.

I think you are probably right. I listened to Allbright's recreations of Dodger games during the mid-1950s on station WINX out of Rockville Md. Rockville is a suburb of D.C.

[VIBaseball]

From today's Mineola (Long Island) American, an account of old-time Brooklyn fan Bud Livingston's talk about the team through the years:

http://www.antonnews.com/mineolaamerican/2009/04/10/news/

[VIBaseball]

A feel-good story about a woman named María Ramírez whose parents came to Brooklyn from Puerto Rico. She became a devout Dodgers fan:

"During high school she used to skip a late study hall and run the one block to the Dodgers baseball park, Ebbets Field. The players began to recognize her and grew to like her when she showed up nearly every afternoon.

"They gave me signed photographs, their ball caps and old baseball gloves, and then one day Duke Snider gave me his Dodger's jacket," she said. "Roy Campanella, Carl Furillo, Pee Wee Reese, they all knew me."

She later became a notable educator:

http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=20296924&BRD=1668&PAG=461&dept_id=7135&rfi=6

[CaliforniaCajun]

Though in my early years I grew up as an avid Brooklyn Dodger fan, I have lived for many years in Chicago and have become a White Sox fan. I recall when the Sox almost moved to St. Pete in 88; I wrote to Reinsdorf, asking if he wanted to be remembered by Chicago kids the same way he and I both remembered O'Malley. I got a form reply, but somehow at the last minute (actually, 5 minutes passed the deadline, but the Speaker moved the clock back) the state legislature voted to build a new stadium, and the Sox stayed in Chicago.

Has anyone read the new book; I think its title is "Forever Blue"? (If the book has already been discussed on this sight, I apologize, but I missed it). It follows the same Michael Shapiro line that O'Malley really would have stayed but Moses was the villain.

I have two problems with the thesis: First, the O'Malley apologizers can't have it both ways: they say both that O'Malley would have stayed, AND that he was a true visionary for moving out West. But if he really would have stayed (which I don't believe for a second), then he couldn't really have been a visionary, now could he?

Second, what I don't understand is how everyone can jump from the fact (assumed for the moment) that no stadium could be built in Brooklyn to the conclusion that therefore the team had to move 3000 miles away. Moses offered the Flushing sight; while it would have been tragic for Brooklyn, perhaps it was time for it to realize that it wasn't its own city anymore, but rather part of NYC. Moreover, many from there had moved to Long Island, where I grew up. Queens was even easier to get to, and the team still would have been ours. I wouldn't have lost the best years of my childhood as a result.

I'll give you my take on it: the team was never replaced. They replaced the lowly Seattle Pilots and Kansas City A's but not the vaunted Brooklyn Dodgers. How can this be? O'Malley's move of the Dodgers, justified or not, resulted in Brooklyn receiving a death sentence of no MLB team forever after all they contributed to the folklore to Major League Baseball.

Pro football has eclipsed MLB in popularity (although not for me personally) because they out-hustled them.


Kids can watch the Super Bowl and not stay up past bedtime. MLB decided the money was for late night World Series games and kids can't watch them before bedtime. When I was a kid in school, baseball ruled during World Series week because they were played during the day and kids followed them intensely with transistor radios.
They decided that despite changing times, the Green Bay Packers were important to pro football, yet MLB let the "world" get in the way of Brooklyn remaining a part of MLB.
Pro football dealt with gambling by suspending Paul Hornung and Alex Karras for one year, while MLB will not decide whether or not to reinstate Pete Rose, which means the issue lingers and festers while MLB straddles the fence.
They learned from the mistake of the Indianapolis Colts and made the Cleveland Browns leave behind their name, uniforms, and colors as a precondition to moving to Baltimore.


MLB has screwed up. Forget Robert Moses or Walter O'Malley. This is a higher level issue. The NFL makes things happen, MLB won't.

I hate to see my favorite sport held hostage to its self-imposed limitations.

Put a team in Brooklyn. Play daytime World Series games. Get some meaningful revenue sharing so the team that makes the long-term commitment to player development wins more often than the team that tries to buy the pennant.

Wake up MLB!

[JOVE23]

I'll give you my take on it: the team was never replaced. They replaced the lowly Seattle Pilots and Kansas City A's but not the vaunted Brooklyn Dodgers. How can this be? O'Malley's move of the Dodgers, justified or not, resulted in Brooklyn receiving a death sentence of no MLB team forever after all they contributed to the folklore to Major League Baseball.

Pro football has eclipsed MLB in popularity (although not for me personally) because they out-hustled them.


Kids can watch the Super Bowl and not stay up past bedtime. MLB decided the money was for late night World Series games and kids can't watch them before bedtime. When I was a kid in school, baseball ruled during World Series week because they were played during the day and kids followed them intensely with transistor radios.
They decided that despite changing times, the Green Bay Packers were important to pro football, yet MLB let the "world" get in the way of Brooklyn remaining a part of MLB.
Pro football dealt with gambling by suspending Paul Hornung and Alex Karras for one year, while MLB will not decide whether or not to reinstate Pete Rose, which means the issue lingers and festers while MLB straddles the fence.
They learned from the mistake of the Indianapolis Colts and made the Cleveland Browns leave behind their name, uniforms, and colors as a precondition to moving to Baltimore.


MLB has screwed up. Forget Robert Moses or Walter O'Malley. This is a higher level issue. The NFL makes things happen, MLB won't.

I hate to see my favorite sport held hostage to its self-imposed limitations.

Put a team in Brooklyn. Play daytime World Series games. Get some meaningful revenue sharing so the team that makes the long-term commitment to player development wins more often than the team that tries to buy the pennant.

Wake up MLB!

I agree with this, but as long as Selig is the Commish, and as long as Selig is in FOX's pocket, nothing is going to change.

[VIBaseball]

Last night the Red Sox tied a record set by the '53 Dodgers -- in the sixth inning, they scored 12 runs before making a single out.

Brooklyn did it at Shibe Park against the Phillies on May 24, 1953. It was a 3-2 game in the 8th inning but then they blew it open. Johnny Podres won it...with a four-inning save from Carl Erskine. Here's the box score from that game and how that inning went (Retrosheet is such a great resource):

http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/1953/B05240PHI1953.htm

DODGERS 8TH: Hodges walked; Cox singled to left [Hodges to
third]; Snider doubled to right [Hodges scored, Cox to third];
Furillo was walked intentionally; Erskine singled to right [Cox
scored, Snider to third, Furillo to second]; MILLER REPLACED
SIMMONS (PITCHING); Gilliam walked [Snider scored, Furillo to
third, Erskine to second]; Reese tripled [Furillo scored,
Erskine scored, Gilliam scored]; HANSEN REPLACED MILLER
(PITCHING); Robinson singled to center [Reese scored];
Campanella walked [Robinson to second]; Hodges singled to center
[Robinson scored, Campanella to second]; STUFFEL REPLACED HANSEN
(PITCHING); Cox walked [Campanella to third, Hodges to second];
Snider walked [Campanella scored, Hodges to third, Cox to
second]; LOPATA REPLACED BURGESS (PLAYING C ); PETERSON REPLACED
STUFFEL (PITCHING); Furillo tripled to center [Hodges scored,
Cox scored, Snider scored]; Burgess ejected; Erskine
struck out; Gilliam reached on a fielder's choice [Furillo out
at home (third to catcher)]; Reese struck out; 12 R, 7 H, 0 E, 1
LOB. Dodgers 15, Phillies 2.

[Lprof]

Lprof,

Can you tell us what that form reply said? Just curious

Something like, "We all want the Sox to stay in Chicago, so please ask your legislator to vote to authorize the new stadium." I would have thought that given my heartfelt reference to the tragic loss of the Brooklyn Dodgers, I might have justified a personal reply (I also teach at his law school alma mater), but none of it seemed to matter.

[Lprof]

I agree with this, but as long as Selig is the Commish, and as long as Selig is in FOX's pocket, nothing is going to change.

You must be kidding; everyone knows that the only reason the NFL is so popular is because it is so easy to bet on.

[VIBaseball]

A nice article by Dave Anderson in the NY Times about the old days of train travel in sports. Up top there's a photo of Ralph Branca and his wife (actually The Big O dominates the frame; and Charlie Dressen is also there).

Carl Erskine is quoted at some length (as is Yogi Berra).

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/10/sports/10anderson.html

[VIBaseball]

Here's another little perspective on the potency of the '53 Dodgers' offense. Evan Longoria had 44 RBIs in Tampa Bay's first 32 games -- the most at that point of the season since Roy Campanella had 45 in '53.

Campy's pace slowed, but he still led the team and the NL with 142. (Al Rosen led the AL with 145 as he came within .001 of a Triple Crown.)

The team overall scored 955 runs, which is still quite high on the all-time list. Here's an intriguing comment:

"The best hitting team in history, taking league and ballpark context into account, is probably the 1953 Brooklyn Dodgers. They scored "only" 955 runs, but they did it in a roughly neutral hitter's park (Ebbets Field), and in a league that averaged 4.75 runs per contest, about what the 2007 National League averaged. They scored about 28% more runs than an average team that year. Put the 1953 Dodgers in a neutral park in the 2007 National League, and they'd have scored about 977 runs. Still 23 shy of Charlie Manuel's prediction. With a little help from Citizens Bank Park (which increases runs by about 5%), they'd easily break the record, scoring about 1025 runs. In Colorado, even though it has been significantly tamed in recent years, tack on another 35-40 runs."

http://armchairgm.wikia.com/Article:Phillies_Chances_to_Score_1,000_Runs%3F_No ne_and_None.

Another quote, from Benjamin Rader's Baseball: A History of America's Game:
"No team overpowered its league more than the 1953 Dodgers."

The thing I find interesting in the first quote is the description of Ebbets as "a roughly neutral hitter's park." I'd like to hear more views and see some of the studies behind this.

[VIBaseball]

These fans are not/were not famous, but their love of the Brooklyn Dodgers shines through:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/lake/orl-lklake-villager-reminisce-0603060309jun03,0,2244225.story

http://timesfreepress.com/news/2009/may/31/dodgers-treasure/

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/jun/04/bn04rudolph-obit/

[Squeeze Play]

[QUOTE=VIBaseball;1516704]Another quote, from Benjamin Rader's Baseball: A History of America's Game:
"No team overpowered its league more than the 1953 Dodgers."


If that’s true (and I haven’t done the individual team research to prove it), then the ’53 Dodgers owe a case of beer to the Pittsburgh Pirates for making it possible. And a year’s supply of hot dogs to the St. Louis Cardinals pitchers of that year for being so hittable. At least in Brooklyn.

While the Dodgers went 13-9 against the 2nd-place Milwaukee Braves that year, they were a dominating 20-2 vs. the Pirates – 10-1 at home and 10-1 at Forbes Field. Granted, the Pirates did lose 104 games that year, but no team feasted on them as voraciously as Brooklyn.

In another oddity, the Dodgers were 15-7 against St. Louis that year – winning only 4 of 11 at Busch Stadium, yet sweeping the season’s series at Ebbets Field. And in those 11 home games, Brooklyn scored an astounding 109 runs, vs. only 36 for the Cards.

I found no explanation for the Dodgers’ high run production against St. Louis at home; they certainly didn’t score that often against the Cards at Busch Stadium, and they didn’t come close to scoring 109 runs against any other team at Ebbets Field.

Anyone?

[VIBaseball]

These fans are not/were not famous, but their love of the Brooklyn Dodgers shines through:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/lake/orl-lklake-villager-reminisce-0603060309jun03,0,2244225.story

http://timesfreepress.com/news/2009/may/31/dodgers-treasure/

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/jun/04/bn04rudolph-obit/

A fun piece from a few days ago about another non-famous Brooklyn fan who still actually gets a form of recognition:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/05/nyregion/05shortal.html?hp

Sounds like he ought to post here!

[VIBaseball]

It looks like a writer named Harold Friend at this blog is making a habit of writing pieces about the old Brooklyn Dodgers -- we're talking circa Casey Stengel, way before the glory years:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/217104-the-philles-dodgers-fight-and-casey-stengels-war-dance

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/214861-the-brooklyn-dodgers-sign-old-tom-zachary

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/215516-the-brooklyn-dodgers-dominated-hall-of-famer-carl-hubbell

[VIBaseball]

Here is an excellent Dodgers trivia question, something I just came to know.

What famous American did Walter O'Malley replace as Dodgers legal counsel?

[penncentralpete]

Here is an excellent Dodgers trivia question, something I just came to know.

What famous American did Walter O'Malley replace as Dodgers legal counsel?

Wendell Wilke.

[tonypug]

So, it's Wendall Wilkie's fault, that O'Mallet became involved with the Brooklyn Dodgers?

[VIBaseball]

In a way, yes, tonypug. From what I've seen, Willkie had other business -- national and personal, although the dates are unclear and the information is thin (even on The Big O's site). But from what I've read, when Willkie moved on, that's when George V. McLaughlin from Brooklyn Trust nominated O'Malley to step in.

Amazing how the gears turn, isn't it? This topic deserves more digging. Who said it's all been done with Brooklyn Dodgers history? Sure isn't me.

[JOVE23]

I call dibs on saying "IT AIN'T VENDELL VILLKIE!" whenever it becomes appropriate. :D

[tonypug]

O'Malley was working for the Brooklyn Trust Company, doing forclosure work, something right up O'Malley's alley.

[penncentralpete]

I have often read that Joseph P. Kennedy attempted to get his son John F. Kennedy (yes, THAT John F. Kennedy) installed as president of the Brooklyn Dodgers immediately after WWll. I know this is true, but just how close did this come to actually happening? Anyone know?

[tonypug]

There was also talk of the elder Kennedy trying to get Jack in as the next commissioner of baseball as well. I think the only way he could have become president of the Dodgers, is by Joseph buying the club.

[VIBaseball]

The Brooklyn Eagle has been keeping the torch lit for the Dodgers. Here's a nice little item harking back to 1939 and a feature called "Watch Us Next Year." If that wasn't incentive enough for the fans to show up at the theatre, there was a procession of "bathing beauties" as well. :)

http://www.brooklyneagle.com/categories/category.php?category_id=23&id=30276

[VIBaseball]

Another notable (if not exactly famous) Brooklyn Dodger fan, sticking up for the underdogs:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/31/nyregion/31judge.html