What would be a good marketing plan and?

[tonypug]

The would you support it thread seems to have caused some interest and a lot of controversy. What would be the best way to market a womans league? Should games be played in MLB parks or some of the newer minor league parks? Should the league start out in the larger cities or suburbs of the larger cities? The initial premise I am useing, is that MLB would support the league, just as the NBA supports the WNBA. Without MLB's support it would be an almost impossible task in this day and age. The other key question would be how and where you would get your player pool. In the start the players for the most part would come from softball, but with interest growing perhaps schools and leagues would start womens teams.

[soflacrushplayer]

The would you support it thread seems to have caused some interest and a lot of controversy. What would be the best way to market a womans league? Should games be played in MLB parks or some of the newer minor league parks? Should the league start out in the larger cities or suburbs of the larger cities? The initial premise I am useing, is that MLB would support the league, just as the NBA supports the WNBA. Without MLB's support it would be an almost impossible task in this day and age. The other key question would be how and where you would get your player pool. In the start the players for the most part would come from softball, but with interest growing perhaps schools and leagues would start womens teams.

Most likely the players would come from the women's baseball leagues and teams that are already in existence since we already have the experience playing baseball. That's where the 2004 USA Baseball Women's National Team got their players.

[Lil_D-backs_fan]

I think you would have to market the Womens baseball team the same as you would market WNBA. For a while I didn't even know there was a ladies league but once I started seeing those comercials and hearing people talking about them bamm it was just like that, I was hooked. You have to use the WMBA path of advertiments use the WMLB as a way to impower the younger generations. Push the games to the younger crowd of both male and female a like give tickets away on the radio staions make a big deal out of it. Once people are hooked you won't need to push it as hard. The sceduling of games is going to have to be double headers mens game in the morning and ladies and night or vice versa. The mens league plays what 162 games a year so there would have to be some fancy foot work to get both games out. You asked about larger cities or suburbs, well I think you would need them to be in the big cities because they have more fans and more potenal to financial support the new teams.

[tonypug]

I think you would have to market the Womens baseball team the same as you would market WNBA. For a while I didn't even know there was a ladies league but once I started seeing those comercials and hearing people talking about them bamm it was just like that, I was hooked. You have to use the WMBA path of advertiments use the WMLB as a way to impower the younger generations. Push the games to the younger crowd of both male and female a like give tickets away on the radio staions make a big deal out of it. Once people are hooked you won't need to push it as hard. The sceduling of games is going to have to be double headers mens game in the morning and ladies and night or vice versa. The mens league plays what 162 games a year so there would have to be some fancy foot work to get both games out. You asked about larger cities or suburbs, well I think you would need them to be in the big cities because they have more fans and more potenal to financial support the new teams.
While I agree that the big cities have more people to draw from, the large size of the ballparks bother me.I think it would be better to fill up smaller ballparks. It would be a better feelinf for players and fans alike. For example the Brooklyn Cyclones ballpark seems to be a perfect size, and it is easily accessable to a large population base.

[JeepingBaseball]

The problem with deciding between major parks and minor parks is that not every city has a minor league park.

Metro New York for example has 2 major stadiums and 3 minor stadiums (Brooklyn Cyclones, Staten Island Yankees, and the Long Island Ducks)

I think with 5 stadiums to work with, there is a way to work out a scheldule.

In other cities such as Atlanta. They just have Turner's field.

Then you have a city like Phoenix and the state of Florida. The options are limitless there.

Like everything else in life, this cost money. I mentioned in another post, but each city to should focus on their city team first. There should be a mass media launch, endless fundraiser events, exhibition games, baseball clinics by the players to give back to the community and to show the fans personaly what their missions are. Let the fans be a part of the build. Offer contests of name your city's team, draw your city's mascot, pick your city's colors, and so forth. Get the mayor of the city to voice a opinion. Then you will find sponsors somehow as the word gets around. You cant find a sponsor first... you have to build a reputation first. You network like if you were running a campaign, which basically you are. Get on someone's good side and find favors donated. Goes a long long way!

However these contests have to happen in all major cities across the country at the same time. Doing it one city at a time is what making us go around in circles in a dead end street. Create a buzz as loud as we can.

Once a city gets behind the idea and a sponsor to continue the mission... You count what cities got thru it and what didnt. Exhibition games begin. Advertise like never before. Let the players prove themselves and the behind the scene makers focus on the cities that didnt come thru. Once the several cities play each other several time, start looking for an offical sponsor.

Alot of hard hard work, but I do believe it can be done.

[tonypug]

IT would probably make the most sense to start with regional leagues.On the East Coast for instance, you could model along the lines of the NY-Penn league. Useing their ballparks and playing home when they are on the road.This woul require a tie in with MLB since all the teams are owned by MLB teams, but that would be a good thing. I'm not real sure a womans professional league could get off the ground without some help from MLB. Corporate sponsers would be more willing to take a chance if the league had MLB backing.

[Clash City Rocker]

Regional is definitely the way to go. Make more natural rivalries that way. The current fastpitch softball league one Jenny Finch is in (probably the closest thing in comparison here) and its got a weak setup. 6 teams, all in different states. So much for going to your teams away games. If the concept booms, then you can grow it from there. But setting it up like its already national and established would be a mistake.

I think using hand-me-down minor league stadiums would be a bad idea. It would send a message of mediocrity or a 2nd-class stature. I would build economical purpose-built ballparks for the league so you can market 'destinations' that are unique to this league. Make them all retro and quirky to liven up the womens game. Build a league of quick and easy 'Point Stadiums':

Point Stadium, built 1920's:
http://www.small-parks.com/point9.JPG

250ft down the LF line with a 40ft screen. Parks like these could be a draw that would get people into the womens game.


That, and marketing the attractive players.

[JeepingBaseball]

with the exception of marketing attractive players (believe me, it's insulting to us women players)...

good points!

[tonypug]

Regional is definitely the way to go. Make more natural rivalries that way. The current fastpitch softball league one Jenny Finch is in (probably the closest thing in comparison here) and its got a weak setup. 6 teams, all in different states. So much for going to your teams away games. If the concept booms, then you can grow it from there. But setting it up like its already national and established would be a mistake.

I think using hand-me-down minor league stadiums would be a bad idea. It would send a message of mediocrity or a 2nd-class stature. I would build economical purpose-built ballparks for the league so you can market 'destinations' that are unique to this league. Make them all retro and quirky to liven up the womens game. Build a league of quick and easy 'Point Stadiums':

Point Stadium, built 1920's:
http://www.small-parks.com/point9.JPG

250ft down the LF line with a 40ft screen. Parks like these could be a draw that would get people into the womens game.


That, and marketing the attractive players.
Some good points. The minor league stadiums I am referring to on the east coast are all fairly new stadiums. Brooklyn, Staten Island, Long Island, anIndependent team s ballpark and some of the others are very nice stadiums. Good competitive baseball is fun to watch, no matter what the level, a womans league would fit right in. Getting corporate sponsers would be a priority. Too many leagues of all types have gone under because of under funding.

[Clash City Rocker]

with the exception of marketing attractive players (believe me, it's insulting to us women players)...

good points!
I meant that if you have an important player who looks good, its not like you'd downplay it. Every sport has marketable personalities. Showcasing the good looking mop-up reliever is not what I had in mind. :crazy

The minor league stadiums I am referring to on the east coast are all fairly new stadiums. Brooklyn, Staten Island, Long Island, anIndependent team s ballpark and some of the others are very nice stadiums.

My problems with having a league of tenants are that if they are AAA stadiums, they are probably too large for a start up league. Being able to advertise sellouts would be difficult unless you faked it, closing off sections and so on. It would kill the vibes. Maybe its because I'm obsessed with ballparks, but I think the league couldn't make it without their own parks. In this era of baseball, the ballpark is almost as important as the team. Non pirate fans I would think just go to PNC because its a universally awesome destination.

[JeepingBaseball]

well if you think about it, in order to build a park soley for a women's baseball team, you need to have a solid reputation and good supporting sponsorship. How do you that without showcasing the talent? You got to start somewhere and the minor league parks are half the size if not less than major parks. Start small, grow big, then build huge :D

We all start on a sandlot

[Clash City Rocker]

They wouldnt be starting in a sandlot if were in minor league stadiums. IMHO, it would be analogous to playing your high school football games at the LA Coliseum. Even if you draw decently, all those empty seats will be depressing.


I see a startup womens league shooting for this sized stadium capacity:
http://www.digitalballparks.com/Amateur/Limeport_-_From_LF_640T.jpg
At this stage, it can't be that expensive to build.

..then if it explodes 10-20yrs down the line, I see this:
http://www.digitalballparks.com/Atlantic/Harbor_Yard_-_From_1st_Mid_640T.jpg

To be honest, I wouldnt see it getting any better than that unless there becomes an MLB affiliation that goes beyond "we'll throw money your way to humor you". My estimation of a new womens leagues drawing power might seem pessimistic, but I think its the most realistic.

My main concern would be to keep the early awkward phase to a minimum. Womens baseball is a hard sell anyway. Not because its womens baseball, but because theres no market need for it. Theres tons of minor and independent league baseball to be found.

It begs the question: Are you selling womens baseball as something distinct, or just another baseball league....but with women.

I say you'd have to come out charging with a distinctive setup thats so different and consolidated, that it just clicks right away. Using other teams (current) stadiums would hijack that....

....also using cheesy team names that are not pluralized.

[JeepingBaseball]

I see your point.

In the first picture you suggested to be a start up size... I can understand that, but however, many teams are already playing in those kind of places sponsored by maybe the local hardware store who donates a t shirt to every player to wear thru the whole season. When I played for NYWBA, we traveled to upstate NY for this kind of field because it was cheap. I've been to alot of those type of fields in PA. I have nothing bad to say about them, however, I dont see a major sponsor willing to support a franchise sized women's baseball league after seeing that kind of park. It's a park they would send their kids to for little league and the parks their high schools sons will compete for the state championship. I'm not the one being greedy here, rest assure. I'm just thinking in terms of the big money wallet. Say for example... 350 people can sit there. That's not good enough for a major sponsor. They tend to lean on the big picture, larger exposure, and inner city locations. They are paying for an advertisement, so to speak, and the reason you advertise is to get the brand name out. That's the whole point. They probably don't even care about baseball to begin with. I don't see them going out of their way for 350 locals whom half of them probably dont buy the product to begin with in order to save money.

And that's where the minor league parks come in. As in your 2nd picture. (to me it looks like a minor league park... Very similar size of the Long Island Ducks Citibank Park without the bleacher style seats - they have regular stadium seats) It's a larger exposure, women tend to shop more then men, it's an oppurtunity to a sponsor. Heck, I'll gladly play for Snuggle Frabic Softner as my main sponsor if this was going to get the ball rolling for us. In addition, being located within the city, you can survive with one big sponsor and fill the rest with local support as there are way too many to list.

As for cheesy names... I have to agree with you there. Some of the names already out there in small neighborhood women's leagues makes me cringe. That's why I suggest as a way to get the people of the city involved is to be interactive and let THEM choose the name. Meaning the Newspaper makes an announcement, the words spread. Being a part of the community. It's a way of giving back, letting them grow with us.

[JeepingBaseball]

The other key question would be how and where you would get your player pool. In the start the players for the most part would come from softball, but with interest growing perhaps schools and leagues would start womens teams.

It dawned on me I forgot to answer this part of the orginal post. Oops lol

While starting with schools and current recreational leagues is a good place to start, I would do the same thing they did for the AAGPBL. A huge public tryout. Sure it might be like American Idol and have our share of William Hung to break the rules of "there's no crying in baseball"...

I'm convinced an open public tryout will find hidden talents. They succeed the first time around with the same concept. I'm in no place to mess with that... repeat that history.

[Edgartohof]

Open try-outs wouldn't be that bad of an idea. It gets people involved, and starts a fan base. And you may actually find legitimate players out of it, although I would guess, that most of the talent would come from established softball. As to the stadiums, I would put it in a regular minor league stadium, as there isn't enough revenue, support, etc... yet to support huge stadiums, but it would be an insult to start it up and have them play on community fields.

[sandlot]

The second picture looks more like the way to go. The whole experience has to be fresh, attractive and imaginative right from the start. On the stadium thread, people talk a lot about what they like in a stadium and while some of that is useful in this context, much of it isn't because people are thinking of large MLB facilities. Women's baseball offers a chance to reinvent the wheel, to think about what a comfortably sized, community-oriented, modern-era ballpark might be if it had entertainment and marketing concepts incorporated right from conception. If it has the feel of second-rate or wannabe, it's doomed from the git-go. As I see it, the aesthetics of the entire complex would be crucially important, and so would practicality -- in equal doses -- in order to have a total leisure and entertainment experience for families. Why not have parks where services are offered -- access for the elderly and disabled (maybe escalators instead of stairs in some sections), seats with earphone plug-ins for the blind and hard-of-hearing, childcare provided for kids too small to enjoy the game, laundry drop-off, drycleaners, letterbox, Internet, cinemas, hairdressers, barbershops, shopping, sit-down restaurants and maybe even fine dining, proper broadcasting studios with interview rooms and backgrounds of the playing field. (Have you ever thought about how boring it is when the TV camera cuts to the broadcasters and you see guys with headsets sitting in a glum little booth? Every second you're thinking, "Please! Get back to the game!" It doesn't have to be that way.) The yard complex should be incorporated into the community, attracting business and generating income even when there's no game on. And it should be the kind of place where people go and think, "Wow! Why doesn't every big stadium have this?" I don't know what the right seating size would be to justify a business plan, but I should think something in the range of 10,000-15,000 or so would be large enough to attract sponsorship but small enough to have the sense of intimacy and community that would be needed to build a loyal fan base. If you played, say, a 100-game schedule and drew 10,000 every game, ad revenue would follow. It would also make sense if the WMLB (just to give it a name) had Spring training facilities near those of MLB so that people who go to see one could also see the other. There could even be shared ticketing and marketing arrangements. If we went this route, WMLB wouldn't be an MLB add-on, but something of its own, and could be seen as pointing the way for major league baseball of the future.

[Yankee Legend]

This is a PG site so i can't respond to this.

That was a joke by the way.

[JeepingBaseball]

Some people are against it and think it's a waste of time and money.... others like myself believe it's worth a shot.

[Clash City Rocker]

Some people are against it and think it's a waste of time and money.... others like myself believe it's worth a shot.
I think its a waste if it isnt done right, because others will point out "hey, it didnt work then. No one needs it."

The goal of the marketing should be:
"damn this is cool"

instead of:
"um...gurls can play too...."


I'll amuse myself by drawing up what I think would be the ideal startup stadium.

[digglahhh]

I think that before this league is even established you would want to look at the lower levels of organzied women's ball. The fact that most of the talented female ball players get herded into softball pretty early is extremely detrimental to this cause. The top level softball players would be essentially playing a different sport that only appears to be similar.

I don't know how strong the player pool would really be if you are drawing from softball players. The sports are pretty different, I mean the pitching is completely different and that is the foundation of the whole game.

I can see where this might sound exploitive or too gimmickly, but perhaps the best strategy may be to establish, at first, one all star team and embark on an old-school barnstorming type tour. I don't want to mke a comparison to the Harlem Globetrotters because this would be much more serious, but perhaps that type of model could generate some interest, especially if it was marketed right, with integrity and drew on the barnstorming metaphors for its historic connection to the MLB and to garner respectablity as a strategy.

In the interim you could be grooming another crop of female baseball players and not relying on the presumed ability one has to switch from softball to baseball at the snap of a finger.

[JeepingBaseball]

You make an excellent point there.

I agree with you about the baseball to softball to baseball switch or even the softball to baseball switch. It is a different game. Personally, I never played for a softball team. The ball is too damn big.

[tonypug]

I think that before this league is even established you would want to look at the lower levels of organzied women's ball. The fact that most of the talented female ball players get herded into softball pretty early is extremely detrimental to this cause. The top level softball players would be essentially playing a different sport that only appears to be similar.

I don't know how strong the player pool would really be if you are drawing from softball players. The sports are pretty different, I mean the pitching is completely different and that is the foundation of the whole game.

I can see where this might sound exploitive or too gimmickly, but perhaps the best strategy may be to establish, at first, one all star team and embark on an old-school barnstorming type tour. I don't want to mke a comparison to the Harlem Globetrotters because this would be much more serious, but perhaps that type of model could generate some interest, especially if it was marketed right, with integrity and drew on the barnstorming metaphors for its historic connection to the MLB and to garner respectablity as a strategy.

In the interim you could be grooming another crop of female baseball players and not relying on the presumed ability one has to switch from softball to baseball at the snap of a finger.
Thats why jeppingbaseball's mass tyout plan is a great idea. Professional scouts could see how many baseball players there are and go from there. Thats why starting small on a regional level and growing as the talent pool got bigger would probably be the best way to go.

[Edgartohof]

The ball is too damn big.

That is so true!

[sandlot]

I can see where this might sound exploitive or too gimmickly, but perhaps the best strategy may be to establish, at first, one all star team and embark on an old-school barnstorming type tour.I think this was already been done in the past with women's softball.