Top Negro League Players

[538280]

Who do you think the best Negro League player was? I think it is a no-contest, Oscar Charleston.

[The Commissioner]

To me there is always one player who will always be synonymous with the NLs and that's Paige. Unfortunately, it's always impossible to compare players from different eras and picthers to position players. This is especially compounded in this case due to the dearth of records, both stastical and celluloid, of players from the NLs.

[DianasMoon82]

Sach was recognized and got to play a game or two, Buck the fellow Monarch was the better player, but, a batter. He is still revered in KC as one of the all time greats, as he should be.

Buck was great in any era black or white.

Just my thoughts.

[538280]

Sach was recognized and got to play a game or two, Buck the fellow Monarch was the better player, but, a batter. He is still revered in KC as one of the all time greats, as he should be.

Buck was great in any era black or white.

Just my thoughts.

Buck O'Neil was a great player, but he is more famous as a man who told stories about the Negro Leagues after his career. He was a great man, and much of the information about the Negro Leagues comes from him, but there is no way he is the best Negro League player. He isn't in the same stratosphere as players like Paige, Gibson, Smokey Joe, Stearnes, and Dihigo

He was revered, mostly because he was very personable and nice. He could definitely be described as a fan favorite. I have great respect for O'Neill, but he was a good player, not a great one. Another reason why he is famous is because he went on to a successful career as a coach and scout with the Chicago Cubs. Some words on Buck O'Neill from the Negro League Encyclopedia:

A smooth-fielding first baseman for the Kansas City Monarchs as they won four consecutive Negro American League pennants (1939-'42), O'Neill hit .353 as the MOnarchs swept the Homestead Grays in the first World Series played between the Negro American League and the more established Negro National League. That year, 1942, also marked the first of his three appearances for the West squad in the All-Star Game.

A steady hitter, O'Neill won the 1946 NAL batting title with an average of .353 to lead the Monarchs to another pennant. although not known as a power hittter, the steady right-hander hit 2 home runs to go along with his .333 batting average in the ensuing World Series against the Newark Eagles. In the sixth game, centerfielder Leon Day made an outstanding catch to rob O'Neill of a triple and save the game and the Siries, as the Eagles won the final game in the hard-fought 7-game series, despite O'Neill's heroics.

[The Splendid Splinter]

I gotta go with Oscar here...

My Top 5 Negro League Players

1. Oscar Charleston
2. Satchal Paige
3. Pop Lloyd
4. Josh Gibson
5. Smokey Joe Williams

[538280]

My top 10 Negro Leaguers:

1.Oscar Charleston
2.Satchel Paige
3.Josh Gibson
4.Smokey Joe Williams
5.Pop Lloyd
6.Christobel Torriente
7.Buck Leonard
8.Martin Dihigo
9.Biz Mackey
10.Willie Foster

[It's Over The Wall!]

Gibson!

Credited With 962!!!!HOME RUNS!!!!!!!!!! :clapping

[538280]

Gibson!

Credited With 962!!!!HOME RUNS!!!!!!!!!! :clapping

Credited with 962 home runs against all levels of competition, that's right, all levels of competition. Anyway, Gibson wasn't a top echelon defensive catchers (definitely worse than Biz Mackey), and he couldn't run very well. Charleston was far more complete.

[shoeless1920]

Not at all to take anything away from Josh Gibson's 962 home runs, it is noteworthy that this number includes not only his regular-season homers but also all of his career home runs from Carribean winter league, non-league, barnstorming, and exhibition games. Sadaharu Oh, Babe Ruth, Hank Aaron, Willie Mays, and possibly others would probably have had a thousand home runs if we counted all of them from the minor leagues, spring training, exhibition/barnstorming, etc.
That being said, imagine nonetheless how many dingers Gibson would have tallied if not for his premature passing!!

[julusnc]

Oscar Charleston gets my vote as the greatest Negro league Player of All-Time but I would be hard pressed to imagine he was greater than Willie Mays.

[jalbright]

I'm comfortable that one of the current three most popular candidates in the poll is the greatest Negro Leaguer. Thos three are Charleston, Gibson and Paige. It's always hard comparing pitchers to everyday guys, but I tend to think even a pitcher like Satch wasn't quite as valuable as the two everyday guys. I'm more a career value guy, which makes it easier to go with Oscar, who I place between Mays and Mantle because Oscar didn't stay at his best as long as Willie did--but he didn't lose as much time to injury as Mickey did. If you're a peak voter, Gibson presents a heck of a challenge to Oscar. If you give a catcher any extra consideration for the position he plays, it's hard to ignore Josh. I think if it was a draft league, I'd take Josh over Oscar because it would be much easier to pick up an outfielder more nearly as valuable as Oscar in a later round than it would be to pick up a catcher nearly as valuable as Josh--even in a career setting.

Jim Albright

[Bill Burgess]

My Top Negro Leagues Players:

1. Oscar Charleston
2. John Henry "Pop" Lloyd
3. Clarence Raleigh James "Biz" Mackay
4. Joshua "Josh" Gibson
5. Louis "Santop" Loftin
6. Carlos Torrienti
7. Martin Dihigo
8. Pete Hill
9. Willie Wells
10. John Beckwith
11. "Cool Papa" Bell
12. Bruce Petway
13. Monte Irvin
14. "Buck" Leonard
15. "Spot" Poles
16. Ray Dandridge
17. Ted "Double Duty" Radcliffe
18. "Mule" Suttles
19. "Turkey" Stearns
20. "Bingo" DeMoss
21. Ben Taylor
22. Oliver Marcelle
23. Newt Allen
24. Judy Johnson
25. Jud Wilson
26. Dave Malarcher
27. Dick Lundy

My order of sequence after #5 is soft & fluid. Not hardened cement at all.

Pitchers:
Robert Leroy "Satchel" Paige, 1926-1967
"Smokey Joe" Williams, 1905-1932
Wilbur "Bullet Joe" Rogan, 1917-38
"Cannonball" Dick Redding, 1911-38
Dave Brown, 1918-1925
Andrew "Rube" Foster, 1902-1926
Bill Foster, 1923-38

[leecemark]

1) Charleston
2) Gibson
3) Lloyd
4) Stearnes
5) Suttles
6) Torriente
7) Leonard
8) Bell
9) Santop
10) Wells
Best of the rest
C: Mackey
1B: Taylor
2B: Monroe
3B: Dandridge
SS: Lundy
LF: Hill
CF: Poles
RF: Brown
Utl:Beckwith (who may be the best of this 2nd group)

P: Paige and Williams are clearly the top 2. 3rd best is arguable. Rogan gets the nod as a pitcher/OF, but some of Ray Brown or Hilton Smith or Leon Day or either Foster or Cannonball Redding were probably better as just plain pitchers.

[Bill Burgess]

Mark,

Nice list. Very strong. Good sequencing.

Bill Burgess

[Bill Burgess]

Chris,

Word for the future. It's fun to never close a poll. I couldn't vote for Oscar.

Bill

[efin98]

With respect to Gibson et al... Paige was the first Negro League player I ever heard about, the more I read and hear about him the greater he sounds. Hard not to choose him as the best.

[NeverJustAGame]

Who knows.The most popular names that most researchers throw out are Josh Gibson, Satchel paige and Oscar Charleston.No one knows for sure its a wide open subject considering very little information is out there for most to make a researched choice.

[NeverJustAGame]

Oscar Charleston gets my vote as the greatest Negro league Player of All-Time but I would be hard pressed to imagine he was greater than Willie Mays. I tend to agree Julus.

[Blackout]

Gibson!

Credited With 962!!!!HOME RUNS!!!!!!!!!! :clapping

thats just an internet myth

[Bill Burgess]

http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/news/2005/051121b.htm


Coming election of Negro Leaguers to the Hall of Fame!

[wamby]

Impossible to say. The statistical evidence is sketchy at best. The top hitters in the Negro Leagues could have just as easily been another Buzz Arlett as Babe Ruth.

[Blackout]

gibson
lloyd
charleston
torrienti
leonard


paige
rogan
williams
mendez
dihigo


peak wise, chino smith may have been the best of all of them however, too bad he died early

[55 chmps]

Josh Gibson, Judi Johnson, and my favorite .. Cool Papa Bell.

[538280]

Josh Gibson, Judi Johnson, and my favorite .. Cool Papa Bell.

Johnson spelled his name J-U-D-Y and he hardly can be called even a top 15 Negro League player. Top 25 would be a stretch. He was a pretty good fielder, but not at the level of the really good NeL 3B (Marcelle, Dandridge). HIs hitting just wasn't any good. He was a .300 hitter, but with very little power or plate discipline. He'd probably bat about .270 every year in the majors with little power. Hardly even a top 50 3B.

I don't understand how you can mention his name and not Oscar Charleston's.

[Love the Cubs 23]

That's a tough one. Satchel Paige was a GREAT pitching. Josh Gibson was GREAT as a power hitter. And I like the speed of "Cool Papa" Bell.
So I really can't narrow it down to just one player. It's to bad these great players couldn't show their talent in the Major leagues before Jackie Robinson broke the Color Barrier. I'm sure baseball would have been a whole more interesting. Then again the timing just wasn't right, because of the times.

[yanks0714]

Based on reputation only, it's Paige and Gibson. Even the 'average' baseball fan may well have heard of either or both of them.

For my money, I have to split them between Pitcher and Position player. I have a great deal of problems evaluating the two together. Any drafts I am involved in of All-Time Greats has split drafts for Pitchers and Position players.

So, my picks on this topic are: Bullet Joe Rogan for Pitcher and Oscar Charleston for Position player. 'Pop' Lloyd is right on Oscar's heels. my favorite might well be 'Cool Papa' Bell.

Smokey Joe Williams is right on Rogan's heels. I have no problem with someone ranking him ahead of Rogan. 'Cannonball' Dick Redding also gets high marks from me.

Paige was great. No question. But one of my concerns on Paige came from other NL players who said he went where the money was. He was bit too mercenary for me. Plus, I've heard he'd be hyped to pitch in a game, to increase attendance, while ending up only pitching an inning or two.

[jalbright]

Paige was great. No question. But one of my concerns on Paige came from other NL players who said he went where the money was. He was bit too mercenary for me. Plus, I've heard he'd be hyped to pitch in a game, to increase attendance, while ending up only pitching an inning or two.

I don't think there's any question Paige was used that way (though more often he'd pitch 2-5 innings and come out when his turn was up at bat). However, please understand why it was done--it was to increase the take for everybody, since Negro Leaguers were often paid a portion of the gate. It's what he was asked to do. He probably started half his team's games--and nobody's arm was going to be able to last finishing even a third of that when you're playing 200 games a year--so he pitched fewer innings per game. The fact Paige was able to draw people just to watch him go that long is a testament to how well regarded he was. Other than key league games, the ones Paige was likely to finish would be when he was matched against the ace of another Negro League team.

Also, Paige followed the money--but it wasn't like he was being paid like most major leaguers, much less the superstar pitcher he was. All of that previous sentence was the way of the Negro Leagues. I'm afraid that the complaints on that score are jealousy more than anything. Satch was smart enough to know an athlete can only make his money so long, and he'd better get it while he can. The truth is, the opportunities for an Afro-American with Satch's education to make much money outside baseball were quite poor. Satch had every reason to do what he did.

Jim Albright

[Edgartohof]

It's Satch all the way. He could bring it, he had what it took to play with the best, and he was the the best. I knew his numbers that he put up in his few years in the majors were good, but I went to look at them again, and truly, they were great.

He pitched from age 41 to 46 (and 3 SCORELESS innings at age 58), and posted a 124 ERA+. How amazing is that? He comes and faces players that he mostly has never faced before, at the ripe old age of 41, and he could still bring it. His "rookie" year, he started 7 games, along with pitching in relief, he carried a record of 6-1, posted a 2.48 ERA, and a 168 ERA+ and had 2 Shutouts. I could only imagine what he could have done if he had played his entire career in the Majors, he would have just mowed down the competition, and could be argued as possibly the greatest pitcher ever, so the least he comes to is the greatest Negro Leager ever.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Oscar Charleston gets my vote as the greatest Negro league Player of All-Time but I would be hard pressed to imagine he was greater than Willie Mays.
Charleston was not greater than Willie Mays. Not even close...:rolleyes:

[wamby]

Charleston was not greater than Willie Mays. Not even close...:rolleyes:

There is no real way anyone could really know how good any of these guys were.

[Bill Burgess]

There is no real way anyone could really know how good any of these guys were.
Well, Jim, while your logic is unassailable in these matters, isn't it fun to speculate, dream, ruminate, imagine, and muse? Makes for a relaxing afternoon, in a breezy environment?

Bill

[wamby]

Well, Jim, while your logic is unassailable in these matters, isn't it fun to speculate, dream, ruminate, imagine, and muse? Makes for a relaxing afternoon, in a breezy environment?

Bill

I suppose it is, but I would rather ruminate and speculate about other things and not the Negro Leagues.

[Bill Burgess]

I suppose it is, but I would rather ruminate and speculate about other things and not the Negro Leagues.
And that would be your prerogative.

Bill

[wamby]

And that would be your prerogative.

Bill

I've been reading up on the Negro Leagues abit, though. I think that my nephew may be interested in them someday. But I still reserve the right to not rank the players or compare them to Major League players.

[Bill Burgess]

I've been reading up on the Negro Leagues abit, though. I think that my nephew may be interested in them someday. But I still reserve the right to not rank the players or compare them to Major League players.
It's still America.

[Williamsburg2599]

Im am horrible at ranking players,but My fav. 2 negro leaguers are:

Satchel Paige:How many pitches did this guy have?:laugh.One of the greatest pitchers who ever lived.Also his life was one amazing story.Must of played for at least 25 teams in his career,even if it was only for a game or few.

Cool Papa Bell:Besides one of the coolest nicknames of all time,this guy played my kind of ball.It was all about speed with this guy,and when i say speed,I mean SPEED.


Someday this summer I'll sit down and do all my rankings,hopefully after my first visit to cooperstown.:) :waving

[Honus Wagner Rules]

There is no real way anyone could really know how good any of these guys were.
Yes there is. Willie Mays played in the major leagues for over 20 years and Charleston did not, unfortunately. The default position is that the majors leagues are the strongest baseball leagues and Mays excelled at the major league level. We can infer (inductively) from this that Mays was better.

[Old Mike]

I don't think there's any question Paige was used that way (though more often he'd pitch 2-5 innings and come out when his turn was up at bat). However, please understand why it was done--it was to increase the take for everybody, since Negro Leaguers were often paid a portion of the gate. It's what he was asked to do. He probably started half his team's games--and nobody's arm was going to be able to last finishing even a third of that when you're playing 200 games a year--so he pitched fewer innings per game. The fact Paige was able to draw people just to watch him go that long is a testament to how well regarded he was. Other than key league games, the ones Paige was likely to finish would be when he was matched against the ace of another Negro League team.

Jim Albright

Bill Jackman appears to have been working in this style prior to Paige. He was doing this at least as early as 1928 when touring New England with the Philadelphia Giants. The Giants' management often complained that the local newspapers were drawing crowds by announcing Jackman would start every game. Some teams would only schedule the Giants with a guarantee that Jackman would pitch. This resulted in Jackman working either the start of the end of games - often six days in a row. It wasn't unsual for him to pitch complete games on consecutive days.

I have brought this to the attention of several notes Negro League historians and they agree that Jackman was doing this before Paige. Jackman was also noted to call in his outfielders prior to fanning the last batter of a game.

On July 4, 1928 the Philly Giants played a tripleheader, winning a morning game in Fall River, Massachusetts, an afternoon game in New Bedford, Massachusetts, and finally, with Jackman dominating in front of 16,000 fans, a twilight game in Wareham, Massachusetts.

Since Jackman worked professionally from 1917 to 1952, it might not be unreasonable to assume that he won between 500 and 700 lifetime games.

Don't look back Satch because Cannonball Jackman is gaining on you.

[wamby]

Yes there is. Willie Mays played in the major leagues for over 20 years and Charleston did not, unfortunately. The default position is that the majors leagues are the strongest baseball leagues and Mays excelled at the major league level. We can infer (inductively) from this that Mays was better.

That's an infurance that I would not make. There is no way of knowing if Charleston was as good as claimed, or how good his talents would have been at the Major League level.

Maybe he could have been another Willie Mays. Maybe he could have also been another Willard Brown.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

That's an infurance that I would not make. There is no way of knowing if Charleston was as good as claimed, or how good his talents would have been at the Major League level.

Maybe he could have been another Willie Mays. Maybe he could have also been another Willard Brown.
Exactly. We know that Mays excelled at the highest level of professional baseball. Charleston did not. Because of this we are left with the default position that Mays was the greater player. Besides have you looked at photos of Charleston in his 30s? He got really fat, Mo Vaugh, Cecil Fielder fat. There is no way such a player could have dominated in his 30s the way Mays did.

[Mischa]

Exactly. We know that Mays excelled at the highest level of professional baseball. Charleston did not. Because of this we are left with the default position that Mays was the greater player. Besides have you looked at photos of Charleston in his 30s? He got really fat, Mo Vaugh, Cecil Fielder fat. There is no way such a player could have dominated in his 30s the way Mays did.

And we know this because there has never been a fat superstar in baseball like Babe Ruth or Tony Gwynn. Players fail as soon as they top 250 pounds without exception.

[Bill Burgess]

And we know this because there has never been a fat superstar in baseball like Babe Ruth or Tony Gwynn. Players fail as soon as they top 250 pounds without exception.
Or Cy Young, or David Wells, or Roy Campanella.

[BaseballHistoryNut]

Oscar Charleston, hands down.

And I rate Josh Gibson as the #1 catcher of all time, hands down. To me, Charleston is the one player with a strong, credible case for having been better than Ruth. It's a case incapable of resolution, of course, but it's strong and credible. Maybe y'all will eventually persuade me the case for Cobb is also credible. As it is, I think he and Mays are about equally credible candidates for #2.

[Goosenoggle Slipgear]

I'd say that Paige was the NL marquee player (and who knows maybe the greatest pitcher of all-time???????????), Gibson was its sultan of swat and that Oscar Charleton was its best all around player. But it's all conjecture and sadly the first-hand connections to the league are slowly passing away into history that has already been ignored by the majority of the general public.

[BaseballHistoryNut]

I'd say that Paige was the NL marquee player (and who knows maybe the greatest pitcher of all-time???????????), Gibson was its sultan of swat and that Oscar Charleton was its best all around player. But it's all conjecture and sadly the first-hand connections to the league are slowly passing away into history that has already been ignored by the majority of the general public.

I know several African-Americans who are baseball fans, and one of my very best male friends is one who was a famous point guard in college, before he became fairly famous as a TV actor and occasional movie actor. John Wooden has called him "the most intelligent player I ever coached," which, of course, is a huge statement.

NONE of these guys had ever heard of Oscar Charleston before I told them about him. They all felt pretty ashamed, but I told them not to be. Nobody seems to know about him, except here.

If he'd been allowed to play in the AL, he would have been an exact contemporary of Ruth's and we could compare them head-up. IF there'd been a live ball by 1915, we could fairly compare the two. I realize that's two very large IF's, but they were born only a year apart and I think it's baseball's single greatest tragedy they couldn't compete. Huge edges in the field and on the bases to Charleston, and he was a TREMENDOUS hitter with tremendous power. Would Ruth's superhuman hitting ability have been enough to overcome Charleston's advantages?

I sure wish we could know.

BHN

[Goosenoggle Slipgear]

Charleston unfortunately is a discreet name among the great ballplayers to play the game. Unfortunately there are many others. It took Ken Burns Baseball to introduce Americans to Buck O'Neill and if I asked 99.9% of the people on the street what they felt about Buck O'Neill they would probably give me a blank stare. I wish baseball would truly do something to commemorate the Negro Leagues and its players and I mean aside from Hall of Fame induction and turn back the clock nights. Every baseball fan should know these names because they are a part of our history.

Mike Warren has had a pretty good life I bet.

[BaseballHistoryNut]

He is a great, great guy. I was raised in an otherwise almost entirely female house, and relate to women a lot better than men, and have 5 close female friends for every close male friend. But Mike IS one of the five really close male friends I have. He's a hell of a guy.

He was never a baseball fan before he met me, because of the game's loathsome segregationist past, but he's learned a lot about it from me and he's come to accept that yes, Babe Ruth really was an incredibly great player--the Wilt Chamberlain of baseball, with a whole room full of stats that would blow up a computer. And, as you would expect if you know anything about Mike other than the characters he's played and the quality of his basketball abilities, he's a brilliant man of deep socio-political convictions and racial pride.

The more I told him about Oscar Charleston, the more he was upset that he'd never heard one word about the man. When I told him Bill James had rated Charleston AHEAD of Ty Cobb, Mickey Mantle, Ted Williams, Lou Gehrig, Hank Aaron, Stan Musial, Walter Johnson and Joe DiMaggio--and immediately behind Willie Mays--he was again confounded that nobody but a few of us baseballmania freaks knows anything about the guy.

He toyed for awhile with looking into a Charleston movie, but there's just too little known to come at it, either personally or from a baseball perspective. What a tragedy.

[Goosenoggle Slipgear]

He is a great, great guy. I was raised in an otherwise almost entirely female house, and relate to women a lot better than men, and have 5 close female friends for every close male friend. But Mike IS one of the five really close male friends I have. He's a hell of a guy.

He was never a baseball fan before he met me, because of the game's loathsome segregationist past, but he's learned a lot about it from me and he's come to accept that yes, Babe Ruth really was an incredibly great player--the Wilt Chamberlain of baseball, with a whole room full of stats that would blow up a computer. And, as you would expect if you know anything about Mike other than the characters he's played and the quality of his basketball abilities, he's a brilliant man of deep socio-political convictions and racial pride.

The more I told him about Oscar Charleston, the more he was upset that he'd never heard one word about the man. When I told him Bill James had rated Charleston AHEAD of Ty Cobb, Mickey Mantle, Ted Williams, Lou Gehrig, Hank Aaron, Stan Musial, Walter Johnson and Joe DiMaggio--and immediately behind Willie Mays--he was again confounded that nobody but a few of us baseballmania freaks knows anything about the guy.

He toyed for awhile with looking into a Charleston movie, but there's just too little known to come at it, either personally or from a baseball perspective. What a tragedy.

You are a lucky person to have such a strong influence in your life BHN. So many people don't get that opportunity.

I think that the segregationism that has occured in baseball is not just a baseball tragedy but rather an American tragedy. Unfortunately you're right when you bring up the point that only hardcore fans of the history of baseball are familiar with these names. It's up to the people who have the ability and the opportunity to educate others on this wonderful subject of American history before its memories decrease or simply vanish before us.

[Captain Cold Nose]

Forgive my ignorance, BHN, but what is Mike Warren doing now? Is he still acting or is he just behind the scenes. I remember a movie he did quite a while back with Redd Foxx called "Norman, is that you?" which would surely go in line with what you've said about him.

[jalbright]

FWIW, I came across the results of the 24 historians who responded to William McNeil when he prepared Cool Papas and Double Duties, and the votes for the best Negro League player were:

Charleston 7
Gibson 5
Leonard 2

Jim Albright

[Erik Bedard]

Not a great ranker, but, anyway, here's my top 5:

Dihigo
Paige
Gibson
Charleston
Bell

I'm going to prematurely defend Dihigo:

People who can pitch AND hit get the top rankings on my list. People who can pitch and hit really well, e.g. be their teams best hitter AND pitcher, deserve the top spot IMO.

[jalbright]

Not a great ranker, but, anyway, here's my top 5:

Dihigo
Paige
Gibson
Charleston
Bell

I'm going to prematurely defend Dihigo:

People who can pitch AND hit get the top rankings on my list. People who can pitch and hit really well, e.g. be their teams best hitter AND pitcher, deserve the top spot IMO.
You ought to check out Bullet Joe Rogan, who might have been better at both hitting and pitching than Dihigo, though Dihigo was better with the glove.

Jim Albright

[Erik Bedard]

You ought to check out Bullet Joe Rogan, who might have been better at both hitting and pitching than Dihigo, though Dihigo was better with the glove.

Jim Albright

Rogan gets #6. :D 18-2 with a sub-3.00 ERA and a .300-plus BA especially stands out to me. Let's just put it this way: If your ERA is lower than your BA, then, IMO, you've had the best season you can have.

[CanadianKid]

1)Paige
2)Gibson
3)Bell
4)Charleston
5)Irvin

[luv4thegame9]

I don't know how any one can't have satchel paige intheir top five players of any leageue or color!!! He's the best, he threw fire, he has at least a thousabd wins or more! Satchel paige STRUCK OUT JOSH GIBSoN nurmorous times, and htat was when ol' satch was telling him where the pitch was and how fast.
And UNlike josh gibson, there is no question everyon but the original negro leauges, ( which oonly banned him because of contract jumping), said anything bad about him talkent wise!
There is talk that gibson had a week arm and an average catcher ability. he played the outfeild because they needed his home runs.

oscar was good, but obviously not the best, and loyd was fat quickly after his prime.

[-Kyle-]

I don't know how any one can't have satchel paige intheir top five players of any leageue or color!!! He's the best, he threw fire, he has at least a thousabd wins or more! Satchel paige STRUCK OUT JOSH GIBSoN nurmorous times, and htat was when ol' satch was telling him where the pitch was and how fast.
And UNlike josh gibson, there is no question everyon but the original negro leauges, ( which oonly banned him because of contract jumping), said anything bad about him talkent wise!
There is talk that gibson had a week arm and an average catcher ability. he played the outfeild because they needed his home runs.

oscar was good, but obviously not the best, and loyd was fat quickly after his prime.
Pop Lloyd was 36 when the Negro leagues started, and played until he was 48. Many people consider Satchel better than Smokey Joe Williams, but they are now discussing it here (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=48082).

[Blackout]

I don't know how any one can't have satchel paige intheir top five players of any leageue or color!!! He's the best, he threw fire, he has at least a thousabd wins or more! Satchel paige STRUCK OUT JOSH GIBSoN nurmorous times, and htat was when ol' satch was telling him where the pitch was and how fast.
And UNlike josh gibson, there is no question everyon but the original negro leauges, ( which oonly banned him because of contract jumping), said anything bad about him talkent wise!
There is talk that gibson had a week arm and an average catcher ability. he played the outfeild because they needed his home runs.

oscar was good, but obviously not the best, and loyd was fat quickly after his prime.

"atleast 1000 wins"? maybe if you count every game he pitched in his entire life including little league games

and Gibson had a strong arm as a catcher, but when he was younger he wasn't always accurate with his throws. Still an above average catcher.

[skeletor]

so many great players, and some lost to the mists of time..

my choice....cool papa bell...followed by Satchel Paige

[baseballPAP]

so many great players, and some lost to the mists of time..

my choice....cool papa bell...followed by Satchel Paige
Best legends maybe, but best players?

Turkey Stearnes gets no props here, but is a legit top 5. DiHigo was slightly behind Rogan with everything but the glove....Rogan is underrated as hell too.

What needs to be considered for those trying to figure out how good they'd have been in an integrated league, no one in MLB history has ever sustained a career pitching AND playing the field. They all eventually were pushed to one side or the other. Some, like Monte Ward and Kid Gleason, did it after 6 or 8 years on the mound...this is probably the career path of Rogan and DiHigo had they played in MLB.

[FlukeHOFer9]

Unfortunately for the Negro League greats, all we have to base their greatness on are stories and statistics that are unreliable at best. However, we do know what teams made the Negro League World Series and what players were on those teams. As such, we can say that Gibson, Paige, Charleston, and Bell were definitely among the greats as far as playing in the Negro League World Series. As far as them playing in the Major Leagues, they never did so we can't accurately compare them to players who did. That being said my top 5:

1. Gibson: Greatest Home Run Hitter
2. Paige: Most recognizable name
3. Charleston: Fantastic all around player
4. Cool Papa Bell: Called "Black Ty Cobb" good enough for me
5. Grant “Home Run” Johnson: played in 1800s, far ahead of his time because he studied pitchers

[Tambourine Man]

Unfortunately for the Negro League greats, all we have to base their greatness on are stories and statistics that are unreliable at best. However, we do know what teams made the Negro League World Series and what players were on those teams. As such, we can say that Gibson, Paige, Charleston, and Bell were definitely among the greats as far as playing in the Negro League World Series. As far as them playing in the Major Leagues, they never did so we can't accurately compare them to players who did. That being said my top 5:

1. Gibson: Greatest Home Run Hitter
2. Paige: Most recognizable name
3. Charleston: Fantastic all around player
4. Cool Papa Bell: Called "Black Ty Cobb" good enough for me
5. Grant “Home Run” Johnson: played in 1800s, far ahead of his time because he studied pitchers

That looks like a very fair assesment. Unfortunately, we'll never really know.

I'll vote for Paige based solely on this quote. What a great attitude!

"Work like you don't need the money.
Love like you've never been hurt.
Dance like nobody's watching."

[HDH]

Turkey Stearns had more career home runs than Oscar Charleston and more career stolen base than Coo Papa Bell and he seems to be the most underrated of all players.

[Bill Burgess]

Would anyone else care to offer their Top 20 Greatest Negro L. Player list?

[TwinsFan1001]

Oscar Charleston was a great two-way player for a very long time. That's why he gets my vote.

[Bill Burgess]

Oscar Charleston was a great two-way player for a very long time. That's why he gets my vote.
Could you be persuaded to share a Top 10 list. Or possibly more?

[disgrig]

Here's an informal top ten:

Oscar Charleston
Satchel Paige
Martin Dihigo
Josh Gibson
Cool Papa Bell
Leon Day
Bullet Rogan
Smoky Joe Williams
Willard Brown
Turkey Stearnes