The All-Time Cubs Team

[Hammerin Hank]

In case you aren't aware, there are polls scattered throughout the forum asking who your all-time pick is for that certain position. Since there are several of them I will post the current results in this thread:

Catcher (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=8694)
Gabby Hartnett (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=hartnga01) (22) - 81.5%
Randy Hundley (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=hundlra01) (2) - 7.4%
Jody Davis (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=davisjo02) (2) - 7.4%

First Base (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=8695)
Cap Anson (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=ansonca01) (15) - 46.9%
Mark Grace (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=gracema01) (12) - 37.5%
Bill Buckner (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=bucknbi01) (2) - 6.3%
Frank Chance (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=chancfr01) (2) - 6.3%
Joe Pepitone (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=pepitjo01) (1) - 3.1%

Second Base (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=8696)
Ryne Sandberg (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=sandbry01) (31) - 93.9%
Glenn Beckert (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=beckegl01) (1) - 3.0%
Billy Herman (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=hermabi01) (1) - 3.0%

Third Base (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=8697)
Ron Santo (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=santoro01) (21) - 100%

Shortstop (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=8698)
Ernie Banks (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=bankser01) (27) - 87.1%
Shawon Dunston (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player/php?p=dunstsh01) (2) - 6.5%
Don Kessinger (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=kessido01) (1) - 3.2%
Joe Tinker (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=tinkejo01) (1) - 3.2%

Right Field (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=8701)
Sammy Sosa (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=sosasa01) (19) - 79.2%
Andre Dawson (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=dawsoan01) (3) - 12.5%
King Kelly (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=kellyki01) (2) - 8.3%

Center Field (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=8700)
Hack Wilson (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=wilsoha01) (18) - 85.7%
Andy Pafko (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=pafkoa01) (2) - 9.2%

Left Field (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=8699)
Billy Williams (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=willibi02) (20) - 100%

Starters (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=8705)
Fergie Jenkins (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=jenkife01) (28) - 90.3%
Three Finger Brown (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=brownmo01) (25) - 80.7%
Greg Maddux (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=maddugr01) (20) - 64.2%
Hippo Vaughn (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=vaughhi01) (13) - 41.9%
Rick Sutcliffe (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=sutclri01) (12) - 38.7%
Pete Alexander (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=alexape01) (11) - 35.5%
Ed Reulbach (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=reulbed01) (10) - 32.3%
Charlie Root (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=rootch01) (6) - 19.4%
Kerry Wood (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=woodke01) (3) - 9.7%
Rick Reuschel (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=reuscri01) (2) - 6.5%
Lou Warneke (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=warnelo01) (2)- 6.5%
Bill Lee (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=leebi02) (2) - 6.5%
Sheriff Blake (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=blakesh01) (1) - 3.2%
Larry Corcoran (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=corcola01) (1) - 3.2%
Dick Ellsworth (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=ellswdi01) (1) - 3.2%
Clark Griffith (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=griffcl01) (1) - 3.2%
Claude Passeau (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=passec01) (1) - 3.2%
Bob Rush (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=rushbo01) (1) - 3.2%
Jack Pfiester (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=pfiesja01) (1) - 3.2%

Closer (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=8706)
Bruce Sutter (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=suttebr01) (12) - 50.0%
Lee Smith (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=smithle02) (10) - 41.7%
Randy Myers (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=myersra01) (1) - 4.2%
Mitch Williams (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=willimi02) (1) - 4.2%

Manager (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=8714)
Cap Anson (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=ansonca01) (8) - 44.4%
Frank Chance (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=chancfr01) (8) - 44.4%
Leo Durocher (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=durocle01) (1) - 5.6%
Don Zimmer (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=zimmedo01) (1) - 5.6%

You can click on the links and vote if you'd like and add comments in this thread regarding the Cubs all-time team.

[The Commissioner]

Interesting totals. It appears that the pitchers and managers were the only hotly contested races.

[Hammerin Hank]

Whoever voted last only voted for one starting when you're supposed to vote for five. It kind of throws off the poll. Also, I'd like to hear why Jody Davis got a vote over Gabby Hartnett.

[ElHalo]

I'm confused as to why Frank Chance got no votes at 1B. I'd be at least tempted to vote him over Anson, and certainly over Grace and Buckner. Also disappointed at the showing for Charlie Root, and Larry Corcoran (who I'd rate third overall on the pitching list, behind Brown and Ruelbach).

[Hammerin Hank]

I believe you're Corcoran's lone vote.

[DianasMoon82]

I would think I would like just to have an all time fun team, no regard to position, kinda like a pick-up softball game, so to wit, my entries:

Jody Davis
Joe Pepitone
Ernie Banks
Roe Skidmore
Rod Beck (the Shooter)
Fergie Jenkins
Kyle Farnsworth (loved the pants)
Jose Cardinal
Matt Stairs
Dave "Kong" Kingman
Ron Santo
Dick "Dirt" Tidrow
Mike "Koo-Koo" Krukow

just sit back and watch it unwind..

The coach, "The college of coaches"

Diana sends :crazy :crazy :crazy

[1908]

Hmm ... Maddux is the 3rd best Cub pitcher ever according to the poll. Maddux is a great pitcher, but most of his greatness was with Braves. I wouldn't rate him that high.

Here's how Lee Sinins ranks Cubs pitchers, using the measure "runs saved above average," which essentially compares a pitcher's performance with the average performance for that pitcher's league and era:

RSAA RSAA
1 John Clarkson 261
2 Three Finger Brown 252
3 Clark Griffith 227
4 Ferguson Jenkins 201
5 Larry Corcoran 188
6 Grover C Alexander 179
7 Bill Hutchison 164
8 Lon Warneke 158
9 Hippo Vaughn 148
10 Charlie Root 144
T11 Rick Reuschel 130
T11 Bill Hands 130
13 Claude Passeau 127
14 Ed Reulbach 121
15 Greg Maddux 97

I left the 19th century guys in regular type, because they really aren't comparable to the rest. Maddux still comes out as just the 11th best modern Cub using this measure.

I have to confess I like Sinins' list because Bill Hands ranks so high. One of my favorite Cub pitchers.

[DianasMoon82]

There are three classes of Lies

Lies

Da*ned Lies

and Statistics.

Diana the Lit major says....

:radio

[CouldBeDumb]

How many third baseman have the Cubs had since Ron Santo? Here is a partial list off the top of my head:

Ron Cey
Kevin Orie
Keith Moreland
Vance Law
Luis Salazar
Jose Hernandez
Aramis Ramirez

There are alot of holes in this list. Just a bit curious...

[moviegeekjan]

How many third baseman have the Cubs had since Ron Santo? Here is a partial list off the top of my head:
Ron Cey
Kevin Orie
Keith Moreland
Vance Law
Luis Salazar
Jose Hernandez
Aramis Ramirez
.. Cubs have run through a lot of third basemen since those days. Others (not all "regulars"):

Shane Andrews
Carmen Fanzone
Gary Gaetti
Leo Gomez
Billy Grabarkewitz
Willie Greene
Dave Hansen
Lenny Harris
Richie Hebner
Tyler Houston
Terry Hughes
Garry Jestadt
Howard Johnson
Danny Klassen
Cole Liniak
Bill Madlock
Dave Magadan
Bill Mueller
Steve Ontiveros
Len Randle
Ken Reitz
Wade Rowdon
Gary Scott
Mike Sember
Tommy Shields
Chris Snopek
Chris Stynes
Todd Zeile

[Cubfandownsouth]

Well, the total number of people who played 3rd since Santo is over 100 now I am sure, since it was at 99 last spring...

[ndistops]

Yeah, for instance I am pretty sure Neifi played some third last year for the Cubs, and I am pretty sure Macias did as well.

[Hammerin Hank]

FYI, I just updated the above percentages and rankings.

[CubBlue]

Jesus Christ this is one scary lineup. I think this competes easily with the Yankees' 'best'. Oh, and give me Anson at 1b and Mark Grace would be the first man off the bench, a'la 2004 Todd Hollandsworth :D

[Hammerin Hank]

Updated again.

[sschirmer]

Cubs have run through a lot of third basemen since those days. Others (not all "regulars"):

Shane Andrews
Carmen Fanzone
Gary Gaetti
Leo Gomez
Billy Grabarkewitz
Willie Greene
Dave Hansen
Lenny Harris
Richie Hebner
Tyler Houston
Terry Hughes
Garry Jestadt
Howard Johnson
Danny Klassen
Cole Liniak
Bill Madlock
Dave Magadan
Bill Mueller
Steve Ontiveros
Len Randle
Ken Reitz
Wade Rowdon
Gary Scott
Mike Sember
Tommy Shields
Chris Snopek
Chris Stynes
Todd Zeile

Ahhh, Gary Scott. The brutal memories of it all.

[cubbieinexile]

Jesus Christ this is one scary lineup. I think this competes easily with the Yankees' 'best'. Oh, and give me Anson at 1b and Mark Grace would be the first man off the bench, a'la 2004 Todd Hollandsworth :D

LF: Babe Ruth
CF: Mickey Mantle
RF: Reggie Jackson
1B: Lou Gehrig
2B: Tony Lazzeri
3B: Alex Rodriguez, or if you want to because of playing time Graig Nettles
SS: Derek Jeter
C: Yogi Berra
P: Whitey Ford
P: David Cone
P: Roger Clemens
P: Lefty Gomez
P: Herb Pennock
P: Red Ruffing
P: Mariano Riviera
P: Dave Righetti

And I don't even want to think of their subs. . . Mattingly, Dimaggio, Williams, Posada, Rizzuto, Winfield, Meusel, . . .


Yeah it would be close

[keith moreland]

jerry morales in cf and keith moreland in rf, didnt see either one those names :clapping

[keith moreland]

How many third baseman have the Cubs had since Ron Santo? Here is a partial list off the top of my head:

Ron Cey
Kevin Orie
Keith Moreland
Vance Law
Luis Salazar
Jose Hernandez
Aramis Ramirez

There are alot of holes in this list. Just a bit curious...

dont forget steve ontiveros and gary scott :eek:

[keith moreland]

LF: Babe Ruth
CF: Mickey Mantle
RF: Reggie Jackson
1B: Lou Gehrig
2B: Tony Lazzeri
3B: Alex Rodriguez, or if you want to because of playing time Graig Nettles
SS: Derek Jeter
C: Yogi Berra
P: Whitey Ford
P: David Cone
P: Roger Clemens
P: Lefty Gomez
P: Herb Pennock
P: Red Ruffing
P: Mariano Riviera
P: Dave Righetti

And I don't even want to think of their subs. . . Mattingly, Dimaggio, Williams, Posada, Rizzuto, Winfield, Meusel, . . .


Yeah it would be close


add thurman munson, ron guidry and tommy john too :D

[Chisox73]

How many third baseman have the Cubs had since Ron Santo? Here is a partial list off the top of my head:

Ron Cey
Kevin Orie
Keith Moreland
Vance Law
Luis Salazar
Jose Hernandez
Aramis Ramirez

There are alot of holes in this list. Just a bit curious...

There have been roughly 100 third basemen since Ron Santo last played for the Cubs in 1973.

Just for fun here,here's the list of the top 5 who have played the most games at 3rd since 1973;

Ron Cey- 518 games
Steve Ontiveros- 398
Bill Madlock- 385
Steve Buechele- 323
Vance Law- 269

Source; 2004 Chicago Cubs Media Guide

[HDH]

I remember Bill Madlock as one of the best 3B in the NL in the early-middle 70s. He had the best batting average of all NL players while he was a Cub. They got him for Jenkins then traded him for Murcer.

[Cubsfan97]

Mark Proir should have been on you rlist for pitchers. #-Finger Brown is also the best in history. If not Brown then Root.

[RBi]

Mark Proir should have been on you rlist for pitchers.


It is hard to add someone who has only played parts of 4 seasons on an "all time" team, on a club with so many players and so much history as the Cubs.

As Prior has potential, he will need more then 40 career wins to get on this list.

[Fukudome = God]

Ahhh, Gary Scott. The brutal memories of it all.

Also Augie Ojeda played 3rd base 35 times in 2001. Say what you want about him, but i always loved him. He was maybe my favorite "roll player" of all time, if you can even call him that, but he came to the park each day like it was his last. He only had 3 home runs as a Cub, but in my heart, he hit a homer each day!

[RamMan12]

I have been a Cubs fan since I was about 6 and love the Cubs almost more than my hometown team the Red Sox. If I had to make an all-time team, it would be like this:

1B: Frank Chance
2B: Johnny Evers
3B: Ron Santo
SS: Joe Tinker
LF: Billy Williams
CF: Hack Wilson
RF: Sammy Sosa
C: Gabby Hartnett

SP: Mordecai Brown
SP: Ferguson Jenkins
SP: Al Spalding

RP: Bruce Sutter

I know I'm leaving off people like Anson and Banks but I love the Tinker-Evers-Chance DP combo.

[yanks0714]

Cubs All-Time Team:

1B > Chance / Grace / Grimm
2B > Sandberg / Billy Herman / Evers
3B > Hack / Santo / English (primarily a SS but played some 3b)
SS > Banks / Dahlen / Tinker
LF > Williams / Sheckard / Stephenson
CF > Wilson / Cuyler / Pafko (Maybe Jimmy Ryan)
RF > Sosa / Nicholson / Schulte
C > Harnett / Kling / O'Farrell
P > Brown / Jenkins / Reulbach/ Griffith / Root / Malone / Sutter or Lee Smith / Vaughn / Big Bill Lee (not the Spaceman) / Warneke / Passeau

[yanks0714]

Oh, throw in Phil Caveretta either at 1B, CF, or RF for reserve.

[Cubsfan97]

It is hard to add someone who has only played parts of 4 seasons on an "all time" team, on a club with so many players and so much history as the Cubs.

As Prior has potential, he will need more then 40 career wins to get on this list.
But its ok for Ramman to put in Al Spalding when he only pitched one season?

[RamMan12]

He also pitched from 1871-1875.

[RobertHConner]

1B-Cap Anson
2B-Ryne Sandberg
SS-Ernie Banks
3B-Ron Santo
C-Gabby Hartnett
RF-Kiki Cuyler
CF-Hack Wilson
LF-Billy Williams
SP-Mordecai Brown
SP-Orval Overall
SP-Hippo Vaughn
SP-Ed Reulbach
SP-Fergie Jenkins
CP-Bruce Sutter
RP-Lee Smith
RP-Randy Myers

Manager-Frank Chance
Pitching coach-Dick Pole...sorry, I couldn't resist

[Cubsfan97]

He also pitched from 1871-1875.
With Boston he played. The Cubs didn't have him until 1876.


I know I'm leaving off people like Anson and Banks but I love the Tinker-Evers-Chance DP combo.

You forgot Sandberg too.

[TheCubbieGuy]

Catcher + GABBY HARTNETT
First Base = Mark Grace
Second Base = Ryan Sanberg
Shortstop = Shawon Dunston
Third Base = Aramis Ramirez
Left Field = Billy Willams
Center Field = Correy Patterson
Right Field = Andre Dawson

Starting Rotation
# 1. Mordecai Brown
# 2. Mark Prior
# 3. Fergie Jenkins
# 4. Greg Maddux
# 5. Rick Sutcliffe

Bullpen
# 1. Lee Smith
# 2. Kerry Wood
# 3. Kyle Farnsworth

The Bench
# 1. Neifi Perez , # 2. Sammy Sosa # 3. Ron Cey # 4. Jody Davis

Manager
Jim Frey

[Cubsfan97]

What the heck are you on?! This has to be the worst All-Time Cubs lineup ever. I will evaluate this lineup by position.


Catcher + GABBY HARTNETT
You did good here. I applaud you.:clapping Grade A+

First Base = Mark Grace
Mark was a good player but he does not deserve number 1. Cap Anson and Ernie Banks will easily dethrone that one. Cap and Banks had more hits, rbis, games, etc. Grade: D

Second Base = Ryan Sandberg
Im gonna assume you are talking about RYNE Sandberg. Yes he deserves number 1. Grade: A+

Shortstop = Shawon Dunston]
Again he was a good player but will easily be dethroned by Banks, Kessinger and Jurges. I dont think I need an explanation for that one because to most of us its just common sense.


Third Base = Aramis Ramirez
ARamis is a great player and one day if he keeps healthy and doing what hes doing will take the top of this position but until then it will always be Ron Santo. The main reason would have to be playing time. Hes only played 2.5 years witht he Cubs while Santo played 14. Grade: B

Left Field = Billy Williams
Yes this would be a great selection. Good job on this one. Grade: A+

Center Field = Corey Patterson
Nope. Not even close. Patterson has not done anything to deserve even a consideration. Hack Wilson would easily top Patterson. Wilson ahs Patterson in BA by about 50 points. Grade: F

Right Field = Andre Dawson
Andre was a great player but not number one in Chicago. He would be a number two behind Sammy Sosa. Everyone may hate Sosa but you have to give him respect with his numbers. Most homers by a Cub, nearly 2000 hits in a Cub uniform, 1400+ rbis in a Cub uniform and 181 SBs in a Cub uniform. Easily takes number one over Dawson. But you were close on this one. Grade: B+

Starting Rotation
# 1. Mordecai Brown
# 2. Mark Prior
# 3. Fergie Jenkins
# 4. Greg Maddux
# 5. Rick Sutcliffe

Not bad. I would add Charlie Root instead of Prior though. Charlie Root has Prior in almost every category. Grade: A


Bullpen
# 1. Lee Smith
# 2. Kerry Wood
# 3. Kyle Farnsworth
First, Wood is still a starter. He will be on the Startign Rotation in 06 (if hes not hurt or traded) and if he does become a reliever hes only played a month or so. Farnsworth is an ok RP but Bruce Sutter, Randy Myers and Don Elston would take Farnsy. Farnsys ERA is over 4 and only 550 Ks. 554 isnt bad in 7 years but Bruce Sutter had 494 in only 5 years. Smith deserves to be up there so good job on that. Garde: C-


The Bench
# 1. Neifi Perez , # 2. Sammy Sosa # 3. Ron Cey # 4. Jody Davis

Neifi is not on the All-Time Cubs bench. How about Aramis Ramirez, STan Hack, Shawon Dunston,Rogers Hornsby(played more games than Neifi in a Cub uniform, Neifi will probably top that though with Baker in there)Bill Bucknor, Phil Cavarretta, Randy HundlyMoises Alou, Riggs Stephanson and Andre Dawson. Grade: D+

Manager
Jim Frey
No. Leo Durocher, Cap Anson, Don Zimmer, Joe McCatrney and Charlie Grimm would all take him. Mainly Leo though. Cubs were over .500 6 of 7 years he managed. No one has led the Cubs to 93 or more vicories since Zimmer in 89. Anson also ahd a .579 winning %. Grade: D.

I don't mean to sound like a jerk though. I can see you really tried hard on this list. I would've probably put somethign similar to it a few years ago so don't feel bad. I also noticed this was your first post so lemme be the first to welcome you. I hope you have a lot of fun on here.

[Hammerin Hank]

Votes have been updated. Sorry for the delay.

Someone break that four-way tie for the fourth and fifth starters!

[E.Banks#14]

If we're only looking at Cubs careers here are some numbers to munch on:

Greg Maddux
W-L: 124 - 101
ERA: 3.92
SO: 1,224
BB: 525
Claude Passeau
W-L: 124 - 94
ERA: 3.29
SO: 754
BB: 474

What makes Greg Maddux deserve 18 votes more than Claude Passeau?

Obviously Greg has had the better overall career, but Passeau was just as good as a Cub.

[Hammerin Hank]

Interesting totals. It appears that the pitchers and managers were the only hotly contested races.

And since your post, first base has become hotly contested too.

[Hammerin Hank]

What makes Greg Maddux deserve 18 votes more than Claude Passeau?

Obviously Greg has had the better overall career, but Passeau was just as good as a Cub.

Greg is popular as a Cub right now. Duh.

[ZR56664]

I know hes only been with the Cubs for a couple years but why not add his name to the third base list.

[RBi]

I know hes only been with the Cubs for a couple years but why not add his name to the third base list.

#1 this is All time! He has only played 2 seasons in Chicago.
#2. Lee plays 1st base... not 3rd. and I think we have enough good 1b to keep DLee off the list.

[ZR56664]

#1 this is All time! He has only played 2 seasons in Chicago.
#2. Lee plays 1st base... not 3rd. and I think we have enough good 1b to keep DLee off the list.
I meant to write 1st base but I was in a hurry, and yes I understand he's only been with the Cubs for 2 years but with the year he had last year if he stays with the Cubs for many more years he has potential to be one of the great Cubs 1st baseman.

And yes Chicago will always be a cubs town

[RBi]

I meant to write 1st base but I was in a hurry, and yes I understand he's only been with the Cubs for 2 years but with the year he had last year if he stays with the Cubs for many more years he has potential to be one of the great Cubs 1st baseman.

And yes Chicago will always be a cubs town

I agree with you... Keep this in mind, 3 years ago we were saying (most of us...) the same think about Corey Patterson.

:)

Not that I think DLee will result in the same player as Patterson...

But let's not jinx the poor guy!

HAHA
Welcome to our forum BTW!

:) we will be having TONS of fun once the season starts!

[Hammerin Hank]

I meant to write 1st base but I was in a hurry, and yes I understand he's only been with the Cubs for 2 years but with the year he had last year if he stays with the Cubs for many more years he has potential to be one of the great Cubs 1st baseman.

And yes Chicago will always be a cubs town

The criteria for the lists of candidates for these polls were players who were the primary players at that position for the Cubs for at least five seasons.

[Hammerin Hank]

Votes have been updated. Also, there will be a new poll for the Cubs' all-time centerfielder, as the original seems to have been deleted.