Craig Biggio and 3,000 Hits

[Mariano Rivera]

I looked at his numbers and he has a little over 2,600+ hits. I know he is 38 going on 39, but it looks like he will finish his career with between 2,800 to 3,000 or so hits.

[micsmith]

Biggio is going to need at least 3 more seasons to get to 3000 hits. I don't know how many more he plans on playing, but he's a good enough ballplayer to continue to start probably two more years at least. He's been one of the best hitters on the Astros this season, and if he wants to, he could stick around long enough to collect 3000 hits. Of course, there are a number of other things going for him to make a bid for the hall of fame - his career totals in runs, doubles and steals for example. I personally hope he makes it to 3000, but even if he's short of that mark, I'd say he's a hall of famer based on his offensive stats and his mastery of several positions in the field. I had heard that he planned on playing only through 2005, but I'm not sure how true that is, if it is true at all.

[Brad Harris]

Both he and Alomar are going to have to work hard to reach 3,000 hits. Personally, I don't see Biggio having a place on the Astros next season. If they re-sign Beltran then the outfield would be Berkman, Beltran and Jason Lane. Unless Biggio wants to warm the bench for $500,000.

[leecemark]

--I don't follow the Astros (or really even the NL) and have no idea what their plans might be. I'd guess a player with his history with the team would be able to come back at a reasonable salary if he wanted to. Pay cut yes, minimum wage seems a little harsh. I wouldn't want him as my everyday CF and he is no better than average a hitter for a LF at this point of his career. He really isn't ideally suited for leadoff anymore either.
--Still, he can play CF/LF/2B or maybe 3B. He could be a semi-regular for the Astros or possbily a regular elsewhere. He still hits enough that if he can play an adequete 2B he would be an upgrade for several teams. If he wants it bad enough, 3,000 hits could be done. Hopefully he doesn't want it McGriff 500 HR bad, because a steep drop off is at least as likely (and probably more so) as being a usefull player long enough to get there. I'd be happier voting for him without 3,000 than with a tarnished hang on 3,000.
--If he retired at the end of this season, I think he would deserve to be elected in the class of 2009. Doesn't mean he would be, of course, just that he would have my support -as unhelpfull as that would be to him.

[The Commissioner]

I say in a perfect world, Biggio would go back and finish off his career behind the plate for the Astros. :laugh

[J W]

Biggio will have to work at it, but it's still possible if he wants it bad enough. It may not be with the Astros unfortunately... but then I don't know if Beltran is going to stick there.

Alomar has more opportunity; again, it comes down to how bad he wants it. He's over 2 years younger than Biggio and has over 100 hits more. It's more possible for him to get his in 2 years--but that may not happen unless he finds a way to pick it up (aka, show that he should be a full-time player). But then, he could get to 3000 by hanging onto the bench for four years if he wanted.

[Brad Harris]

If he retired at the end of this season, I think he would deserve to be elected in the class of 2009. Doesn't mean he would be, of course, just that he would have my support - as unhelpfull as that would be to him.

Ah the curse of not being a BBWAA member. :ughh

[Cougar]

Biggio belongs in the Hall of Fame, but he may have a tough time reaching 3,000 hits, just because of age. He may be priced out of the Astros rebuilding, too, and who knows if he wants to go play for another team.

Alomar should have an easier time than he's having reaching 3000, but he seems to have just lost it. He showed some flashes in Arizona, but has been a disaster on the White Sox. After 3 bad seasons it's hard not to think he's just done.

[DeadlyDemon]

I know that some of the Houston fans seem to like Beltran, but I don't think there is a 100% chance of him coming back to the Astros next season. If he doesn't, then I think Biggio will definitely be on the Astros next season.

Biggio is definitely a candidate for hall of fame, but I do think that the closer to 3,000 hits he is, the easier it would be to vote for him. The guy was one of the more dominating players in the 90's and a constant all-star. He along with Bagwell are literally the face of the Astros (i.e. Mike Scott and Nolan Ryan for the 80's decade). Bags and Bigs are literally the definition of what it is to be an Astro.

If he is forced to go somewhere, I have doubts in my mind that Biggio would. I think he might be one of those players whom would just rather stay with the same team his whole career, rather than move on to another team for a season or two more.

Either way, he would have my vote for hall of fame.

[Cougar]

Both he and Alomar are going to have to work hard to reach 3,000 hits. Personally, I don't see Biggio having a place on the Astros next season. If they re-sign Beltran then the outfield would be Berkman, Beltran and Jason Lane. Unless Biggio wants to warm the bench for $500,000.

He may well move back to 2b if Kent leaves. He was no longer a GG at the position two years ago, but he was fully capable of manning the spot competently, and I think it's unlikely that he can't still.

His current offensive production, below average for an OF, is more suitable from a middle infielder.

[byrd]

He may well move back to 2b if Kent leaves. He was no longer a GG at the position two years ago, but he was fully capable of manning the spot competently, and I think it's unlikely that he can't still.

His current offensive production, below average for an OF, is more suitable from a middle infielder.

He'll probably go back to second. Kent's been talking about retirement, and that will make room for Jason Lane in left.

[nolanryan5714]

Well, here's another interesting subject...

Biggio has been a great player, and when you think about the four positions he's had to tackle, it just adds to the argument.

His offense was shaky the last couple of years, but this year was incredible. Career-high 24 homers, .281 BA (which isn't really indicative of how well he hit - he tailed off at the end).

Biggio will be back. Here are the scenarios I see:

1. He goes back to CF, Lane is your everyday left fielder, and Burke becomes the starting second baseman if Beltran isn't re-signed.
2. Beltran is re-signed (hopefully), and Biggio will go to second.

I don't think Kent will return. No chance.


Regardless, it all hinges on the Beltran ordeal...

I agree that he needs three more seasons to attain 3,000 hits. I also think he can do it. :)

[Cougar]

This is off topic, but what is the deal with Kent anyway? How has he worn out his welcome in Houston so quickly? He's been fine on the field, producing exactly what you'd expect from him. I know the guy is a world class flake, but he managed to coexist with Bonds in SF for 7 years or so; what's so different about Houston.

[nolanryan5714]

Oh, no, I agree that it's a great question, and fitting for this thread!


Halfway through the season, when Kent wasn't producing worth a crap and was acting the way he usually does, I was hoping the Astros would dump him at or before the trade deadline.

He just doesn't seem to be one of those players with any sense of team loyalty. I can only imagine how the "conversations" were between he and Bonds. :grouchy


For some reason, though, his bat and his attitude has vastly improved. As with many of his teammates, we wouldn't be where we are without him.

However, to answer your question in a nutshell...I have no idea.

[Cougar]

I'll tell you, I don't get to watch as much baseball as I'd like, but I watched all of Game 7 in the NLCS.

No one said a word during the game, but there were about 4 balls hit that looked like routine 4-3 grounders that got through to the OF.

Not sure how he did during the regular season, but yesterday Jeff Kent had no range -- none. Two steps to either side of him, and he was waving at it.

I don't think you can directly tie it to the Astros' loss, but Clemens and Oswalt had to work harder as a consequence. Kent gets to two of the four, and Rocket doesn't have to face Pujols and Rolen in the 6th.

Kent's got the 2b HR record, so there's less personal reason for him to resist a switch. If last night was any indication, he's got to move to 1b soon.

[Cougar]

Kent's option was declined, and Biggio's was picked up. It appears Biggio may return to 2b.

In most cases this would help a HOF case. However, since part of Biggio's virtues is his defensive versatility (C, 2b, CF, LF), I'm not certain it will. It won't hurt, though.

[J W]

Biggio really helped himself out this year, and I'm glad the Astros took their guy over the FA splash.

:clapping :clapping :clapping :clapping

I still don't think he'll last to 3000 hits. I'm thinking next year will be his last, in fact. But who knows.

[nolanryan5714]

Bump.

Maybe some other people have input on this issue...?

Craig is an all-around ballplayer. He's definitely going into the HOF if he stays healthy for another 2 seasons (counting '05).

[nolanryan5714]

Oh yeah, and he needs just 1 more RBI to hit the 1,000 mark.

Simply incredible. What a guy...

[DoubleX]

Biggio should make the Hall, and deservedly so, but I wouldn't bet on him making 3000 hits. 350 hits could prove difficult to get at the ages of 39+. Look at Roberto Alomar; a few years ago he seemed to be a lock to make 3000. At the age of 34, he was already closing in on 2600.

[edsachs1]

I would love for him to get into the Hall. About how many years does he have left for his career?

[STLCards2]

Despite Bill James' opinion that Biggio is the greatest thing in baseball since the pitcher's mound, Biggio will and should make the Hall of Fame. He doesn't need 3,000 hits to do so either.

[nolanryan5714]

...and tonight he stole his third base of the season, which have been all steals of third, and is one shy of 400 career SB's.

He also reached the 1,000 RBI mark.

Congrats, Biggio! :cool:

[nolanryan5714]

Bidge now has reached the 400 SB mark, and is #60 on the all-time hits list.
I'd say he's working his way steadily UP, not down, as many players do at this stage in their careers. ;)

[csh19792001]

I looked at his numbers and he has a little over 2,600+ hits. I know he is 38 going on 39, but it looks like he will finish his career with between 2,800 to 3,000 or so hits.

I'd like to think he can do it, but it's highly doubtful, despite his durability and excellence.

[nolanryan5714]

I'd like to think he can do it, but it's highly doubtful, despite his durability and excellence.
Highly unlikely, Chris? He already has 30 hits this season...
I believe he's just 331 hits away from 3,000 now.

I still think it looks to be in his favor. :)

[Cougar]

331 hits = 2 fairly good seasons as a regular = 3 so-so seasons mostly playing regularly.

That's surely not impossible, but it's a fairly tall order for a 39 year old player. And Biggio is 1/6 or so into this season already.

I'd say his odds are about 3 out of 10 for making 3000. Not bad, but one shouldn't bet the house.

Players over 40 can have their careers end really fast. Goodness, look at Bonds. Granted, there's more going on there than just normal decline, but who'd have thought six months ago that he might not even catch the Babe this year.

[csh19792001]

Highly unlikely, Chris? He already has 30 hits this season...
I believe he's just 331 hits away from 3,000 now.

I still think it looks to be in his favor. :)

Good!! All the better!! :dance

[J W]

I think the Astros may have a dilemma on their hands...

On the one hand, I'm sure they would love to have Biggio, who's been with the team since day one, produce his 3000th hit with them, especially if it occurs in their park...

On the other hand, yes he's getting old, and the team that once proudly sported one of the most potent lineups in baseball, is now struggling to score runs. Biggio obviously shouldn't be part of their long-term plans. Would he hurt the team be hanging around for 3000 hits? Would he retard the development of someone special, or prevent the Astros from singing that key free agent?

Someone who's more attuned to the Astros organization should probably answer that.

[Robert]

He'll make 3000, he'll do it at the end of 2006, or at the beginning of 2007. And yes, he will be an everyday player next year, and probably a bench player in 07. Depending if he reaches it in 06.

[Cougar]

I think certainty in this case, either that he will make it or that he won't, is foolhardy.

He's close enough that he's got a legitimate shot, but not so close that any one of a number of things can't rapidly make 3000 virtually impossible.

[nolanryan5714]

I think certainty in this case, either that he will make it or that he won't, is foolhardy.

He's close enough that he's got a legitimate shot, but not so close that any one of a number of things can't rapidly make 3000 virtually impossible.
That's true, Cougar...I'm just looking at those "other" factors (i.e., health) historically for him, and again he looks to come out just fine.

Others have had skids and still landed on target. Biggio is above average on that account.

EDIT: He had 2 more hits tonight. His average is .320 at the moment.

[nolanryan5714]

Off to probably his best start ever, Bidge is hitting .301 with a team-leading 6 homers and 19 RBI.
He has 2,679 hits at this point. Simple math says he needs just....
321 hits to reach 3,000.
If he keeps his current pace, he'll get there before the '06 season is even close to being up!

[Mariano Rivera]

Craig Biggio now is at 2,724 hits and counting, just needs another 276 hits for 3,000. :)

[Mariano Rivera]

Craig Biggio has the same amount of career hits as the recently retired Roberto Alomar. :)

[Senor Octobre]

I think a lot of people will agree with me that Bidge has been one of the funnest (if not THE funnest) players to watch/follow over the years. As said previously his mastering of several difficult positions (Catcher, 2B, CF), his offensive versatility, his stat piling and longevity, and his constant milestone achieving has been, to me, one of the highlights of Major League Baseball over the past couple seasons. Just last year he set a career high in homers (24 I think?) at the age of 38, who saw that coming? He never ceases to amaze me. Its a joy to watch an average joe like you or me go out there every night and play hard, take beanings from 90 mph fastballs like a man, and give 110% on every play. Plus he still has gas in the tank. Even if Bidge doesn't get 3000 hits (which I 'm betting he does) he's a lock for my hall of fame and should be for yours.

[klsm54]

I hope he makes 3,000, and I think he has a decent shot. It will just put him in that elite company if makes it. As far as the Hall goes, he would have my vote if he retired today.

[Mariano Rivera]

Craig Biggio is now at 2,725 hits and counting. :waving

[nolanryan5714]

Yep. I think looking at him this season is just about the same as last season. He's just so consistent!

Senor Octobre, nice post. :)


Bidge is such a neat player in so many ways, but one that shouldn't be overlooked is how he makes regular guys (i.e., not giant muscular players) feel as if they have a fighting chance of making it to the Majors - and being successful.

[Cougar]

Craig Biggio is now at 2,725 hits and counting. :waving

OK, this could get old. :)

Until he gets 100 hits of 3K, let's just check in every multiple of 50:

2750.....2800.....2850.....2900...2925...2950... 2975..2990..2995, 2996, 2997, 2998, 2999, 3000!

[nolanryan5714]

OK, this could get old. :)

Until he gets 100 hits of 3K, let's just check in every multiple of 50:

2750.....2800.....2850.....2900...2925...2950...29 75..2990..2995, 2996, 2997, 2998, 2999, 3000!

:laugh
Well, I think if he passes people on the all-time hits list, that would be acceptable. ;)

[Cougar]

:laugh
Well, I think if he passes people on the all-time hits list, that would be acceptable. ;)

If they're meaningful, like Alomar (a direct comp). But I don't really care when he passes Harry Heilmann.

[micsmith]

During an ESPN interview after he passed Don Baylor on the all-time Hit by Pitch list, Biggio gave three reasons why he's going to try to get 3000 Hits. His family wants him to try; the Houston fans want him to try; and he feels like he owes it to the game to give it his best shot.

[H-Town Believer]

Craig Biggio is the fourth player in major-league history reach 400 stolen bases, 225 home runs, 500 doubles, 1,500 runs scored, 1,000 walks and 2,500 hits. The other three are Barry Bonds, Rickey Henderson and Paul Molitor. Biggio is 13th on the all-time doubles list.
These are all undisputed facts. As a long time Astro fan, I truely believe he deserves to be in the HOF. I understand that I might be biased, but he's my favorite player of all time. My buddies and I would have bets on how many innings it would take for Bigg to get dirty. It's hard to point out anyone who has played the game harder and with more integrity. His numbers this year are favorable among 2nd basement throughout the league and I hope, with all of my heart, that he's an Astro when he reaches 3,000. I have no doubt he'll reach 3,000, but I'm not certain he'll be an Astros when he does. Chris Burke is a blue chip prospect (who beat all of Todd Helton's hitting records at Tennessee) who's been waiting to be the 2nd basemen of the future for the Astros. I can see where the organization and Chris Burke could be getting impatient as to bringing him up and giving him an opportunity. If I were the GM, I would have Biggio playing ball for me as long as he is producing and this year, he's argueably a top 5 second basemen in all of baseball and definitely a top 10.
AB R H HR RBI BB SB BA OBP SLG
316 54 91 13 40 19 9 .2880 .3506 .4968

[MyDogSparty]

Looking at ESPN's projections for this season, Biggio will finish the season with 164 hits. Let's say that in 2006 his totals fall a little and he ends up with only 150 hits. That would leave him 50 hits shy at the end of the 2006 season. I believe he'd play one more season as a utility player to pick up the remaining hits he needs to make it to 3000. Biggio, despite his hustling disregard for his own body style of play, has proven to be a very durable player. I just hope that his push for 3000 hits doesn't drop his career batting average below .285. Currently it's at .286. There are a lot of great ballplayers who's career average ended at .285. (Yount, Yastrzemski, Trammell, Sandberg) and I'd like Biggio to be one of those players.

[abolishthedh]

Someone here mentioned how consistent Biggio has been, and he's currently hitting .281 with a career average of .286. It is true that he has been consistent over the years, and that tells me that he'll make it as long as he's healthy.

On the other hand, it doesn't matter on the 3000 level because Biggio is one of the few worthy players of his era who has kept up his 'intangibles' and his defense.

[MyDogSparty]

Biggio finish the season with 156 hits bringing his career total to 2,795. This puts him 205 hits away from the magical 3,000 hit club and for all practical purposes his automatic ticket to the HOF. Let's just say the Astros win the WS this year. I wonder if he'd come back. It looks like it's going to take him 2 more years for sure to reach 3,000. I wonder if he'd be willing to take a lesser role with Houston and pick away at his remaining hits over the next 2 seasons.

[MyDogSparty]

Biggio signed a 1 year contract TODAY! He'll be back for at least one more season.

[J W]

:clapping :clapping :clapping

I think that's great. He earned another year too. And Houston looks like a viable World Series contender, though some of their key cogs are very old.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Biggio finish the season with 156 hits bringing his career total to 2,795. This puts him 205 hits away from the magical 3,000 hit club and for all practical purposes his automatic ticket to the HOF. Let's just say the Astros win the WS this year. I wonder if he'd come back. It looks like it's going to take him 2 more years for sure to reach 3,000. I wonder if he'd be willing to take a lesser role with Houston and pick away at his remaining hits over the next 2 seasons.

So it looks like June 2007 is the rough time frame for his 3,000th hit.

[538280]

No question-Biggio is a surefire HOFer in my book with 3000 hits or not. He is 2nd among all players in Win Shares in the 1990s.

[jalbright]

If Craig's career had ended as of the end of 2004, he'd be a clear HOFer in my book.

395 career win shares, which is in the top 50 all time and 5th among second basemen listed in the BJHA
105 win shares for his best three years, which is 7th among second basemen in the BJHA
165 win shares for his best five consecutive, which is 5th among second basemen in the BJHA

17 Black Ink points, which is 128th best all-time
104 Gray Ink, which is 199th best all-time, but his combined black ink and gray ink score is excellent for a second baseman
49.5 HOF standards, average for a HOFer.

When you consider he's still playing and doing so at a good level, he's only got to avoid steroid and gambling issues to be a lock in my book.

Jim Albright

[Cougar]

So it looks like June 2007 is the rough time frame for his 3,000th hit.

Nicely done, HWR...Biggio is at 2,997. He's sitting out Wednesday, and should reach the mark during a four game series at home in Houston against the Rockies.

Then he can commence vigorously leaning into pitches to seize the HBP mark from Hughie Jennings, as well as swinging for the fences in a (probably successful) attempt to pass Brett for #5 all time in doubles, and an (almost certainly vain) attempt to reach the 300 HR plateau.

Biggio's actually hurting his team at this point, but the Astros know it, and aren't going anywhere with or without him at this point, so it's not the end of the world. They probably ought to move him down in the order, though.

[tearforamariner]

Biggio's actually hurting his team at this point, but the Astros know it, and aren't going anywhere with or without him at this point, so it's not the end of the world. They probably ought to move him down in the order, though.

I don't get this. I keep hearing it, but still don't get it. How is Biggio hurting his team anymore than Morgan Ensberg and Adam Everett are? Sure, Everett has a bit of a glove, but he's quite possibly the worst hitter (starting position player) in the NL this year. And Ensberg as a hitter is only slightly better this season than Biggio is.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Nicely done, HWR...Biggio is at 2,997. He's sitting out Wednesday, and should reach the mark during a four game series at home in Houston against the Rockies.

Then he can commence vigorously leaning into pitches to seize the HBP mark from Hughie Jennings, as well as swinging for the fences in a (probably successful) attempt to pass Brett for #5 all time in doubles, and an (almost certainly vain) attempt to reach the 300 HR plateau.

Biggio's actually hurting his team at this point, but the Astros know it, and aren't going anywhere with or without him at this point, so it's not the end of the world. They probably ought to move him down in the order, though.
Isn't this season going to be Biggio's last?

[Cougar]

It's nearly a certainty.

Biggio's hurting the Astros because of opportunity cost. Burke is a better option at 2b right now offensively and defensively, and his skills are eroding while he waits. Ensberg and Everett, for all their current impotence, might get better. 41 year old Biggio isn't going to.

[SamtheBravesFan]

It's nearly a certainty.

Biggio's hurting the Astros because of opportunity cost. Burke is a better option at 2b right now offensively and defensively, and his skills are eroding. Ensberg and Everett, for all his current impotence, might get better. 41 year old Biggio isn't going to.

So we should deny the fans of Houston and baseball something they don't see all the time just because Biggio is playing like a 41-year old? For God's sake, you said it yourself that the Astros aren't going anywhere. You should stop acting like they would if Biggio isn't in the lineup anymore.

[Cougar]

If you'll re-read, I didn't say they should sit Biggio. To the contrary, I said he ought to be able to go for his goals.

I said that objectively he shouldn't be playing every day, especially if they were contending. But of course Houston is a lousy team, Biggio is arguably their franchise's greatest player (or tied with Bags; whatever), and they owe it to him and to the fans to let him get to 3,000.

There aren't many who are bigger Biggio fans than I am, which is why I'm a little bummed he's not getting to 3K on a higher note. I think he'd probably be better served batting lower in the lineup (6th or 7th); it'd cost him some AB but what better serve his current skill set. He also ought to sit against some right-handed pitchers; probably only start 4 or 5 times a week. He'd stay fresher.

[SamtheBravesFan]

If you'll re-read, I didn't say they should sit Biggio. To the contrary, I said he ought to be able to go for his goals.

I said that objectively he shouldn't be playing every day, especially if they were contending. But of course Houston is a lousy team, Biggio is arguably their franchise's greatest player (or tied with Bags; whatever), and they owe it to him and to the fans to let him get to 3,000.

There aren't many who are bigger Biggio fans than I am, which is why I'm a little bummed he's not getting to 3K on a higher note. I think he'd probably be better served batting lower in the lineup (6th or 7th); it'd cost him some AB but what better serve his current skill set. He also ought to sit against some right-handed pitchers; probably only start 4 or 5 times a week. He'd stay fresher.

He had the day off today against the Brewers.

[Cougar]

He had the day off today against the Brewers.

Yeah, he's usually off during a day game that follows a night game. That's smart, but I think insufficient by itself.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

So it looks like June 2007 is the rough time frame for his 3,000th hit. (10/03/05)



Nicely done, HWR...Biggio is at 2,997. He's sitting out Wednesday, and should reach the mark during a four game series at home in Houston against the Rockies.
I guess I can toot my own horn a little bit. :clapping

[Brad Harris]

I don't get this. I keep hearing it, but still don't get it. How is Biggio hurting his team anymore than Morgan Ensberg and Adam Everett are? Sure, Everett has a bit of a glove, but he's quite possibly the worst hitter (starting position player) in the NL this year. And Ensberg as a hitter is only slightly better this season than Biggio is.

How can Ensberg be both "slightly better...than Biggio" and be "quite possibly the worst hitter...in the NL"? Wouldn't the former necessitate that Biggio was the worst hitter in the NL?

The answer to that question, by the way, is Steve Finley.

[tearforamariner]

How can Ensberg be both "slightly better...than Biggio" and be "quite possibly the worst hitter...in the NL"? Wouldn't the former necessitate that Biggio was the worst hitter in the NL?

The answer to that question, by the way, is Steve Finley.

Please re-read. I said Everett was quite possibly the worst hitter in the NL. I would appreciate it if people would take the time to read my posts before responding with such a tone as if I were an idiot.

Also, I did say "starting position player". Taveras is the Rockies' starting CF, not Finley.

[Big Hurt]

I'll be at the game tonight and tomorrow so I can only hope to see Bidge get his 3,000th hit. I'll also be taking both of my sons so I sure hope we are there to see it together. That would be special........:crossfingers:

[nolanryan5714]

It is now a done deal. He was pulled from the game after a 4-5 night, and a career total of 3,001 knocks. WOW.

All of the things he has done are so remarkable for a "sub-radar" player. I love it.
What a pure player he is.

[Cowtipper]

Yes, Biggio has always played without all the fanfare like that of a Bonds and Clemens, (and even before his big home run surge in 2000/2001, Bonds wasn't the most popular player in the game. I always compared him to something of a Mo Vaughn like player [in terms of popularity]), but he still managed to reach quite a historic milestone. Congratulations to him.

[nolanryan5714]

I must correct myself in the above post....

Biggio went 5-6 in the game, and wasn't pulled (I was distracted, and thought I saw him taken out).
That was only his 2nd 5-hit game ever. Weird, isn't it? Talk about consistency. This guy can get over 3,000 hits, but never did it with fireworks.


Pardon my above mistake, please! :)

[csh19792001]

I guess I can toot my own horn a little bit. :clapping

You can toot it LOUDLY! That was one hell of a call two years ago! :applaud:

Congrats to Bidge; for a middle infielder to get 3,000 hits is pretty damn special. It was awesome to see him go 5-6 live and see him and his HOF bound buddy Bags out there celebrating a monumental feat!

[Honus Wagner Rules]

You can toot it LOUDLY! That was one hell of a call two years ago! :applaud:
Thanks Chris. :D



Congrats to Bidge; for a middle infielder to get 3,000 hits is pretty damn special. It was awesome to see him go 5-6 live and see him and his HOF bound buddy Bags out there celebrating a monumental feat!
I thought it was funny seeing Biggio try to take second. I think Biggio did say he wanted his 3,000th hit to be a double.

[nolanryan5714]

I don't have Teevo (or whatever it is called), so I had to tape the game on 3 VHS cassettes. :(

Maybe I should do more homework, but does MLB.com supply a download WITH postgame interviews from last night? I'd gladly pay a fee to have it on a disc.

[csh19792001]

Thanks Chris. :D

I thought it was funny seeing Biggio try to take second. I think Biggio did say he wanted his 3,000th hit to be a double.

You're welcome, bud. :)

I wanted it to be a double because A) sentimentality and B) he went full-tilt out of the box and never slowed down. To me that's a staple of the old days, when players (in general) lacked the sense of complacency and entitlement that the ridiculous contracts of today garner. I'd love to see more guys like Hal McRae, who actually have little natural foot speed but bust their a** 100% of the time and are a blast to watch out of the box and on the basepaths. For the fan's sake, hustle and intensity greatly surpass strength and speed in baseball, IMO.

Speaking of which, watching Jose Reyes regularly the last tow years has been a genuine pleasure. His use of speed, baserunning tactics, and havoc wreaking/run creation are truly old school.

[Cowtipper]

Who do you guys think will be the next player to reach 3,000 hits? Behind Biggio, the active leader is Bonds with 2,898, which puts him only 102 hits away from 3,000. He's on pace for around 122 hits this year, so he will have around 2,965 hits by the end of the season. I think Bonds has a pretty good shot at it, he'll need less than half a year next year to get to 3,000 hits. Beyond Bonds, there really is no logical player who can do it within the next season or two. Julio Franco, Steve Finley and Omar Vizquel (#s 3, 4 and 5 on the active list) really have no shot as they are all 40 or over, and they all need more than 400 hits. Griffey is 37 and Pudge is 35, and they are both more than 500 hits away. Griffey might already be there if it hadn't been for a series of injuries, but now I don't know if he'll be able to get 3,000 hits. Pudge might get it, but I think he'd need a change in position to do so. Jeter at 33 years of age and Arod at 31 years of age are currently number 15 and 16 on the active list, respectively. Jeter is 745 hits away and Arod is 837 hits away. That means that we'll probably have to wait another 3.8 years for Jeter to reach 3,000 (that actually doesn't seem too far away) and more than four and a half years for Arod to reach 3,000 hits. Damon also has a shot, but he is more than five and a half years away. After Damon, the chances of having someone reach 3,000 hits become even more slim.

What do you guys think?

[cbenson5]

What do you guys think?

I think your analysis is dead on Cowtipper.

Looking at the active leaders there are 20 people with over 2000 hits (minus Biggio). Bonds will get to 3000 if he comes back next year and avoids serious injury. Franco, Finley, and Vizqueal have almost no chance.

Griffey and Sheffield have outside chances. They are still playing at a high level, but they will have to hang on well past 40 to get 3000. Pudge, as you said, will have to change positions.

Sosa, Lofton, Thomas, and Kent have almost no chance.

Jeter and Rodriguez will get 3000 barring injuries or a sudden loss of skills.

Piazza and Alou have no chance.

Manny Ramirez and Chipper Jones have decent chances if they stay healthy and continue to produce. The main thing going against Chipper getting 3000 is that he has developed injury problems and no one will pitch to him with Andruw batting behind him.

Anderson and Damon have outside chance, but I don't see them retaining their skills long enough to get 3000.

[tearforamariner]

I think Ichiro has a shot at it. It will require him to stay healthy and, of course, fast, but if he can do those two things, nothing should stop him. He's on pace to finish this season with a total of 245, putting him at 1599 for his career. 7 seasons averaging around 200 hits will do it. It seems impossible that a player can have 14 consecutive 200 hit seasons, but if anyone can do it, it would be a guy who get 680 ABs a year.

[csh19792001]

Jeter and Rodriguez will get 3000 barring injuries or a sudden loss of skills.


Actually, I read recently that Jeter has more hits than Pete Rose did at the same age. Of course with his integrity and inflappable scruples, Rose kept himself in the lineup as a no power, no field, no run, and no hit player until age 45 to break one of the most important records in sports. Rose had 5 homeruns in 3,000 PA in his last 7 season (could he have been more monolithic?). Nobody, sans Balco Bonds, has ever had less business breaking a major all-time baseball record.

Hits through age 32.
Jeter-2253
Rose-2152

If he ends up moving to 1st base (as has been proposed) and eventually DH, and he stays healthy, I don't think a total upwards of 3,500 hits is possible. I don't see 4,000 even remotely possible even under optimal conditions, but then, who the hell thought in 1973 that Pete Rose would end up with 4,256 career hits?

[tearforamariner]

(could he have been more monolithic?).


Sure, if he was a dome.

It bothers me that people throw that Rose-Jeter comparision out there as if it means something. Neither Jeter nor Rose are top 10 in hits by age 33. Vada Pinson, for instance, had 2453 hits by age 33. Jimmie Foxx had 2516. Mel Ott had 2528. Rogers Hornsby has 2705. None of these players even reached 3,000. What makes Jeter closer to Rose than Pinson, Foxx, Ott and Hornsby (other than the fact that like Rose, Jeter is overrated?).

[csh19792001]

What makes Jeter closer to Rose than Pinson, Foxx, Ott and Hornsby (other than the fact that like Rose, Jeter is overrated?).

The only think that makes him similar to those other players is the relatively young age he came up at and his ability to get hits. That's pretty much it.

And Jeter is, overall, a better player than Rose was. We have a shortstop with a lifetime .318 average, considered the absolute soul of the franchise and the greatest Yankee in many decades. Jeter is a guy who transcends sabermetrics and his own team.

First few similarities that pop into my head...
-They were both line drive hitters who played on dynasties.
-They both got a ton of hits annually, and drew relatively few walks.
-Both received a ton of attention due to factors beyond their control.

Rose, unlike Jeter, was never really thought of as the pillar of his franchise, even though he was a local kid from the south side of the river.

[tearforamariner]

And Jeter is, overall, a better player than Rose was. We have a shortstop with a lifetime .318 average...

At 32, Rose was a .312 career hitter in a league that often batted in the .250's, something that Jeter's league has never done. Also, Jeter as a shortstop means little to me. He's been a poor fielder in his career.



Rose, unlike Jeter, was never really thought of as the pillar of his franchise, even though he was a local kid from the south side of the river.

This just isn't true. Pete Rose is, to this day, considered by Reds fans as "Mr. Red". The fans voted him the "Hometown Hero" for the Reds all-time.

[AstrosFan]

Rose drew relatively few walks compared to guys like Ted Williams and Joe Morgan, but still topped 85 walks six times in his career, with a high of 106. He drew 1566 walks in his career, which is a very high total. I have seen the notion that Rose was allergic to the base on balls before. It's a myth. I don't think it's fair to classify a guy who didn't draw 100 walks a year as a guy who draws relatively few, because, compared to the average player, Rose was actually quite good at drawing walks.

Jeter is probably already a top ten shortstop all-time, and when he finishes, he may rank in the top five. How overrated can he be? I think we need to clarify this. His defense is overrated; Jeter having more Gold Gloves than Adam Everett is an absolute joke. But he is an outstanding offensive player, and a great baserunner and clubhouse leader, as you mentioned, Chris.

[Cougar]

Nicely done, HWR...Biggio is at 2,997. He's sitting out Wednesday, and should reach the mark during a four game series at home in Houston against the Rockies.

Then he can commence vigorously leaning into pitches to seize the HBP mark from Hughie Jennings, as well as swinging for the fences in a (probably successful) attempt to pass Brett for #5 all time in doubles, and an (almost certainly vain) attempt to reach the 300 HR plateau.

Biggio's actually hurting his team at this point, but the Astros know it, and aren't going anywhere with or without him at this point, so it's not the end of the world. They probably ought to move him down in the order, though.

Biggio has now passed Brett to hold the #5 slot all time in doubles, with 666. He'd probably like to hit one more, just for aesthetics' sake (Who wants to be the doubles hitter of the Beast?), but now the only milestone in reach is the all-time HBP mark. Biggio's stuck on 285, two behind Hughie. So he needs to get plunked three more times.

A good strategy would be to loudly and vigorously express malicious and degrading sentiments about pitchers' family members (especially mothers, wives, and sisters) before each at-bat.

Good luck Craig! :clapping

(Hey, it worked for Italy in the World Cup.)

[phoenixrises]

A good strategy would be to loudly and vigorously express malicious and degrading sentiments about pitchers' family members (especially mothers, wives, and sisters) before each at-bat.

Good luck Craig! :clapping

(Hey, it worked for Italy in the World Cup.)

Or simply follow the strategy he's had most of his career to lean into a pitch using his arm protection or just not avoiding a pitch all together.

[Fuzzy Bear]

What makes Jeter closer to Rose than Pinson, Foxx, Ott and Hornsby (other than the fact that like Rose, Jeter is overrated?).

1. There is question as to Pinson's real age. Some sources have listed his birth year as 1936, and that is what I believe it is, given the timing of Pinson's ascent and decline. Pinson also had poor plate discipline; he never learned how to take a walk.

2. Foxx was a hard drinker who didn't take care of himself.

3. Mel Ott was severely nearsighted; this hindered his hitting for average in his thirties. His obituary cites this as a factor that shortened his career.

4. Hornsby had a severe ankle fracture in 1930, and became a part-timer and player-manager after that.

5. Jeter could well have a freak injury, but the fact that he plays shortstop (and plays it well, even if he's not the best with the glove) will keep him in the lineup longer than if he were an outfielder.

6. Sports medicine has advanced significantly. Jeter has a minimal injury history, no chronic injuries, and is the beneficiary of today's sports medicine.

7. The INCREDIBLE money paid athletes today gives them unbelievable incentive to maintain physical conditioning.

Rose's record is hard to beat. Rose wouldn't have broken it if he didn't become a player manager and play himself, when Nick Esasky was a better player. But Jeter COULD do it. It would be hard, though.