If they become the Senators, should they hang up really old banners?

[Clockwork]

I think it would be really awesome if they became the Washington Senators. But it would be even cooler if the Twins/ Rangers gave them the history of the franchise, kinda like what the Baltimore Ravens did to the Cleveland Browns. It would be awesome seeing a 1924 WS banner, and a 1925 AL banner, I think.



That brings up another questions, do teams that moved like the A's hold up banners that were won elsewhere? The A's won 5 titles in Philadelphia.

[sportsfan331]

nice question...

[Coal Cracker]

Yes. Honor the history and tradition of the Washington Senators. I'm hoping that they'll have a museum or something when the new ballpark opens honoring the traditions of Washington baseball.

[Chisox73]

I think it would be really awesome if they became the Washington Senators. But it would be even cooler if the Twins/ Rangers gave them the history of the franchise, kinda like what the Baltimore Ravens did to the Cleveland Browns. It would be awesome seeing a 1924 WS banner, and a 1925 AL banner, I think.



That brings up another questions, do teams that moved like the A's hold up banners that were won elsewhere? The A's won 5 titles in Philadelphia.

I think it would be up to baseball to make that decision.

As far as other teams,like the A's are concerned,their media giudes lists separate records for Oakland and Philadelphia/Kansas City.

I know when I watch the A's home games on TV,when they show the championship flags,they only have all the Oakland championship flags flying.

[tonjes]

Yes. Honor the history and tradition of the Washington Senators.what exactly is their to honor?

ever hear of first in diplomacy, last in the american league?

anyways, assuming the expos become the senators, are they going to move them into the american league and send the pittsburgh pirates back to the NL east? maybe that was selig's plan all along. am i on to something? it would put 15 teams in each league, instead of the unusual 14 AL, 16 NL arrangement.

[Coal Cracker]

Ed Delahanty, Walter Johnson, Bucky Harris, Harmon Killebrew, etc. They're not to honor? How about the 1924 World Champions?

How can you put 15 teams in each league? One team wouldn't have an opponent every series.

[tonjes]

Ed Delahanty, Walter Johnson, Bucky Harris, Harmon Killebrew, etc. They're not to honor? How about the 1924 World Champions?..who? btw, 1924 was 80 years ago. who cares?

How can you put 15 teams in each league? One team wouldn't have an opponent every series.good point.

[Chisox73]

How can you put 15 teams in each league? One team wouldn't have an opponent every series.

That would mean you would have an interleague game every day of the season.

[brewcrew82]

That would mean you would have an interleague game every day of the season.

::shudders:: That means we'd never get rid of this blight...

[Coal Cracker]

..who? btw, 1924 was 80 years ago. who cares?

Delahanty was one of the greatest ballplayers in the late 19th century and early 20th. When the Senators were in Detroit to play the Tigers, Delahanty mysteriously disappeared and his body was found in Niagra Falls. See the links for more details.

Ed Delahanty- Statistics (http://www.baseball-reference.com/d/delahed01.shtml)

Ed Delahanty- Hall of Fame (http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/hofers_and_honorees/hofer_bios/delahanty_ed.htm)

[BasEbaLlKnoItAll]

to answer the original question yes if they are named the senators they should hang up old banners and recognize the history of the senators. But also i think they should also hang Montreal banners as well as the retired numbers. Also regardless of if theyre the senators or not i think the logo should be the montreal M, but just flipped upside down (not rotated but flipped, so that the red is still on the left) to make a W. It would be really cool to have montreal and the senators recognized (if they are in fact the senators.) And in that museum you mentioned they should also include expos stuff so that the expos arent forgotten.

[Tomahawk Chop]

to answer the original question yes if they are named the senators they should hang up old banners and recognize the history of the senators. But also i think they should also hang Montreal banners as well as the retired numbers. Also regardless of if theyre the senators or not i think the logo should be the montreal M, but just flipped upside down (not rotated but flipped, so that the red is still on the left) to make a W. It would be really cool to have montreal and the senators recognized (if they are in fact the senators.) And in that museum you mentioned they should also include expos stuff so that the expos arent forgotten.

I agree, the history of the Senators and the Expos should both be recognized. Even though the Expos never went to the WS, you can't just pretend they didn't exist. Gary Carter, Andre Dawson, Vlad Guerrero...they have had some good players come through their ranks, so their history needs to be commemorated. As for the question of the Senators old banners, go for that, too. I think it presents a very unique opportunity for the histories of two teams to be displayed in the same venue. Who knows, maybe the increased revenue coming with the move will translate into a more competitive team, so maybe this incarnation of the Senators will start making its own winning tradition in a few years.

[Calif_Eagle]

That brings up another questions, do teams that moved like the A's hold up banners that were won elsewhere? The A's won 5 titles in Philadelphia.

In Los Angeles... not long before George Mikan died, the Lakers basketball team of the NBA held a ceremony to honor the stars and HOF-ers of the old Minneapolis Lakers teams of the late 40's and the 1950's. At this ceremony, a special banner in the light blue and white colors of the old Lakers franchise was unveiled and hung in the LA Forum. It recognizes all of the Minneapolis Lakers HOF-ers and all of the Minneapolis Championships (except, oddly to me, anyway, the 1948 NBL Title that they won in their very first season of competition as the Lakers. The NBL was a predecessor and forerunner of the NBA.) This banner was moved and today still hangs in the Laker's new home arena, Staples Center. What other teams in other sports and cities do, I cant really say, but this is one example of a city honoring its teams past in a different city. The LA Dodgers also have done things in the past to commemorate past Brooklyn Dodger pennants and the 1955 World Series Title.

[morepepper]

I agree, the history of the Senators and the Expos should both be recognized. Even though the Expos never went to the WS, you can't just pretend they didn't exist. Gary Carter, Andre Dawson, Vlad Guerrero...they have had some good players come through their ranks, so their history needs to be commemorated. As for the question of the Senators old banners, go for that, too. I think it presents a very unique opportunity for the histories of two teams to be displayed in the same venue. Who knows, maybe the increased revenue coming with the move will translate into a more competitive team, so maybe this incarnation of the Senators will start making its own winning tradition in a few years.

But there is no real continuity. It is almost as if the Expos folded and the Nationals are a new invention.

[Gary Dunaier]

I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who resurrects old threads! :D

In my mind, the current Washington Nationals have nothing to do with the original Washington Senators. The Nationals moved from Montreal, so their legacy begins in 1969 when the Expos were created.

The original Washington Senators moved to Texas, so their legacy properly belongs with the Texas Rangers.

However, that doesn't mean the Nationals can't, and shouldn't, honor the legacy of the Senators in terms of the history of Major League Baseball in Washington, DC.

[Aa3rt]

The original Washington Senators moved to Texas, so their legacy properly belongs with the Texas Rangers.

The ORIGINAL (if we're limiting ourselves to the 20th century and the formation of the American League) Washington Senators became the Minnesota Twins after the 1960 season.

It was the expansion Washington Senators (1961-1971) who were carpetbagged out of DC after the 1971 season and moved to Texas where one Bob :grouchy Short hoped to line his pockets with Texas oil money, having moved another sports franchise (read the history of the Minneapolis/LA Lakers).

[Gary Dunaier]

The ORIGINAL (if we're limiting ourselves to the 20th century and the formation of the American League) Washington Senators became the Minnesota Twins after the 1960 season.

It was the expansion Washington Senators (1961-1971) who were carpetbagged out of DC after the 1971 season and moved to Texas
I stand corrected. :lookitup

But my theory remains the same. :nod:

[bryanac625]

This is a very interesting discussion, one of the few where I've read every comment (and being #18 helps).

It also helps to remember that the histories of every franchise, particularly those that have moved, are not celebrated with the same enthusiasm. The Brooklyn Dodgers or New York Giants are highly regarded historically, their previous locales and their success are a big help. But it's not quite the same with the original Nationals/Senators and the Expansion Senators. 1924 was a long time ago (although more recent than the Red Sox championships of the 1910s, which are very well celebrated); the team has no retired numbers, Walter Johnson never wore one.

Honestly, I don't see the fans of the Texas Rangers, with their home base in the suburbs of Dallas, home of the Cowboys, embracing anything to do with Washington, DC. And I've never seen the people of Minnesota very passionate about their connection with the original Washington Nationals.

The new Washington Nationals (who can't deny their roots in Montreal) are their own franchise, but remember, DC is rich in history and I get the feeling that many want to embrace the past of DC baseball, even if it is some other team's past.

I hope to see a museum and a research library near the new park. Wishful thinking perhaps, but I think it would be a great step.

[Gary Dunaier]

The new Washington Nationals (who can't deny their roots in Montreal) are their own franchise, but remember, DC is rich in history and I get the feeling that many want to embrace the past of DC baseball, even if it is some other team's past.
Which is fine, as long as, for instance, the Washington Nationals don't try to claim Walter Johnson as one of their own.

[bryanac625]

Which is fine, as long as, for instance, the Washington Nationals don't try to claim Walter Johnson as one of their own.

That's between the Minnesota Twins and the Washington Nationals franchises. I understand what you mean though, he was not a part of this team/franchise, like Babe Ruth was once part of the same Boston Red Sox team that Manny Ramirez plays for.

But I'm not sure how much it matters because the city of Washington can always claim Walter Johnson as one of its own. IMHO, the Twins don't care that much about the Washington Senators, so I say share the history with the Washington Nationals.

I know someone said they don't feel any connection with the past teams, but many baseball fans are really into the history of the game. I'd love to see a Walter Johnson Day or a statue of him outside the new park. BTW, there is a statue of Connie Mack outside Citizens Bank Park, and that's where it belongs... noit in Oakland, but in Philadelphia, even though Mack was never really part of the Phillies.

[Gary Dunaier]

. . . the city of Washington can always claim Walter Johnson as one of its own . . . there is a statue of Connie Mack outside Citizens Bank Park, and that's where it belongs... noit in Oakland, but in Philadelphia, even though Mack was never really part of the Phillies.
Everything you say (that I've quoted) fits in with my point of view. :nod:

[welch]

They should hang the old banners no matter what.

- Clark Griffith owned the team in Washington

- Walter Johnson played in Washington

- Bucky Harris managed (and played) in Washington

- The Washington National was the AL pennant three times, and the World Series once

- Sam Rice played in Washington

- Mickey Vernon won two AL batting championships in Washington

- Roy Sievers won the HR championship in Washington in 1957

- Frank Howard hit 500 foot home-runs in Washington

Expos? Who? Twins? They should be snowed out every game (they were in their first game, in 1961). Rangers? A hockey team in New York.

There is, has been, and will be only one Washington Nationals team, often called the Washington Senators. They just finished the 2007 season.

Hang the banners. I was born in The District, at Garfield Hospital, right beside the old park. NOT in Montreal.