What Happened to the Hobby?

[1984Tigers]

I was hardcore into collecting cards from about 7yrs old until I was a teenager. Then high school, girls, military, getting married, losing interest in baseball after the strike, etc. happened and I left the hobby. This year it's been great, my two oldest sons have really taken to baseball cards (they've always played but until this year never collected cards or really watched games), so I'm getting back into it now.

I just cannot believe how much the hobby has changed over the last 10-14yrs.

Can anybody who's been in it since at least late 80's have any opinions on what happened to change the hobby so much? I know card values were kinda out of control for a while, but prices haven't just dropped, they've plummeted! Even HOF's, RC's, etc. EVERYTHING has plummeted! And how did packs go from $.50/per to $5-10 bucks per???

[Dizzy]

Cards in the late eighties and early nineties were over-produced. This is why they are worth nothing. Then in the mid-nineties every company and more than that came out with fifty different sets. However I stick to plain ole Topps, I don't give in to collecting all sorts different stuff. Also unless if you have a fat wallet it is impossible to collect sets from packs like you used to. Of coarse sets are not the goal anymore now people collect insert cards. I am sorry to say it just isn't as fun anymore. :(

[Captain Cold Nose]

Dizzy touched on it about the packs. It's all about the inserts. Pieces of uniforms, bats, gold, silver and bronze versions of the same card, refractors, little diamonds, autographs, vintage cards, those are things that have found their way into the packs of the various companies, and , since there is a demand to get these rare items, the companies will charge a premium.

I believe it is Upper Deck, but I could be wrong, who cut up a Babe Ruth jersey, one of a very few complete jerseys out there, to put in a few packs.

With so many versions of a players rookie card, with companies having four or five different sets, nothing is truly unique anymore. A rookie pull from a regular set is not so special anymore.

Back to the inserts, Donruss had a Pat Tillman jersey all ready to cut up. They held onto it for three years. In the aftermath of his death in Afghanistan, Donruss donated the jersey to Tillman's family. At least they have a perspective on things.

[McGwireFan67]

I couldn't agree more.

In the late '80s and '90s, so many different companies started mass-producing cards and it seems as though competition between WAY TOO MANY companies drove the price value of the cards down. That and players like Darryl Strawberry and Dwight Gooden (who were convicted of drug abuse and/or suspended by the league for it) who somewhat tarnished their names. I remember back in the late '80s a Darryl Strawberry 1983 Topps Update card was well over $20, whereas today it is no more than $2.50. And yes, I can never understand WHY packs run for so high...it's not worth the effort anymore of collecting.

I too collect Topps only but I managed to get a few of the error cards from Fleer and Donruss from the early '80s. Nothing beats the quality of a good Topps card, in my opinion.

Baseball card collecting...it's no longer a hobby, but more of a profit for the card company manufacturer. Sad to say that.

MF67

[MikeCameronFAN]

Originally posted by Captain Cold Nose
Dizzy touched on it about the packs. It's all about the inserts. Pieces of uniforms, bats, gold, silver and bronze versions of the same card, refractors, little diamonds, autographs, vintage cards, those are things that have found their way into the packs of the various companies, and , since there is a demand to get these rare items, the companies will charge a premium.

I believe it is Upper Deck, but I could be wrong, who cut up a Babe Ruth jersey, one of a very few complete jerseys out there, to put in a few packs.

With so many versions of a players rookie card, with companies having four or five different sets, nothing is truly unique anymore. A rookie pull from a regular set is not so special anymore.

Back to the inserts, Donruss had a Pat Tillman jersey all ready to cut up. They held onto it for three years. In the aftermath of his death in Afghanistan, Donruss donated the jersey to Tillman's family. At least they have a perspective on things.

That was nice of Donruss - but they're the ones who shredded the Babe's jersey too. They even had a whole ad campaign about it. At first I thought jersey and bat cards were cool, but now I think they're lame. Give me autographed cards and serial-numbered cards and I'm happy.

[1984Tigers]

Originally posted by McGwireFan67
I couldn't agree more.

In the late '80s and '90s, so many different companies started mass-producing cards and it seems as though competition between WAY TOO MANY companies drove the price value of the cards down. That and players like Darryl Strawberry and Dwight Gooden (who were convicted of drug abuse and/or suspended by the league for it) who somewhat tarnished their names. I remember back in the late '80s a Darryl Strawberry 1983 Topps Update card was well over $20, whereas today it is no more than $2.50. And yes, I can never understand WHY packs run for so high...it's not worth the effort anymore of collecting.

I too collect Topps only but I managed to get a few of the error cards from Fleer and Donruss from the early '80s. Nothing beats the quality of a good Topps card, in my opinion.

Baseball card collecting...it's no longer a hobby, but more of a profit for the card company manufacturer. Sad to say that.

MF67


I understand why late 80's/90's cards dropped from being overproduced. But even the older cards early 80's, 70's, 60's, 50's, and on, have plummetted in value.

Yeah like everything else, corporate greed has destroyed what was once a great thing to do. I hate those insert cards, that's like the stupidest thing imaginable to me. To pay all this money to own a card with a sliver of a tiny piece of a jersey or bat or whatever. I just don't get it.
Anyway I'm getting back into collecting with my kids, but we are only collecting older cards. About late 80's and before. Taking them to a card show this weekend, haven't been to one of those in ages :D

[Zito75]

Go on EBAY and get yourself some SEALED wax packs and boxes. I have been doing that for years. I have been getting cards I could never afford when I was a teenager (in the late 80's). It brings back memories and it's about collecting, not just the money.

That's thing... everybody looked to make a quick buck and that's what set the whole downward spiral into motion. When I was 16, I worked in a card shop and older guys would come in and buy cards to get the rookies, then turn around and sell them. Now it's all about the limited edition # inserts that are signed and with a piece of a jersey. The hobby just isn't what it used to be.

[insanefishpossay]

I'm a member over at sportscardforum.com, a site for trading sports cards with other collectors. I collect players who I like, and of course Twins... it's gotten REALLY frustrating though, trying to work out a trade when the majority of people will ONLY trade for Game Used/Autographs/High End RCs/High End Inserts.

[Zito75]

Insanefishpossay- IM me sometime and let me know if you are looking for anything.

[Utter Chaos]

Another reason the prices of older cards have plummetted is because of eBay. Dealers realize that the consumer can get the same card the dealer has for half the price on eBay so dealers have been forced to lower the prices.

[emstrem]

When the card companies started mass producing cards like mad I started collecting baseball memorabilia (pre-war gloves, etc), and starting collecting things of only 1 player (Al Kaline), and old Tiger cards and memorabilia. When I was growing up you could afford a pack of cards and a soda, the prices of cards now are geared for adults and not kids with the high price and the "rarity" of certain cards. When I was a kid you'd try to build sets but thanks to the card companies it's no longer possible with 1 of 1's and such, and they have the audacity (sp?) to cut up game used equipment. Kid's today dont even know what flipping cards is, let alone using your cards to play a game of baseball with friends.

I have since amassed almost everything with Kaline's mug on it except for a very few things. I have every card of his ever made except a 55 topps and a 71 topps greatest moment. I have anywhere from 1 to 20 of most of his cards. (only a few of the ones since 1975).I have about 40 of his autograph's on everything from paintings to baseballs (5).

Thanks to the card companies I started to just collect old stuff and hof auto'd baseballs of players I like and I find it's alot more rewarding.

I also dont like the shinyness of the new cards (what's wrong with cardboard ?).

I am now starting to build a 1954 Topps baseball set in any condition I can. It's challenging and I picked this set because it's Kaline's rookie card year and it contains a low number of cards.

And like insanefish says trading is almost non existant. I quit going to card shows a few years back because all you'd see are row's upon row's of shiny metallic cards (and they only want the auto'd, game-used, etc. cards) with a handfull of vintage booths.

Also now you cant just have a Mint, or NrMint card, but it has to have a number attached to it. PSA 8, SCG 88 , qualifiers and all that junk.

Sorry for ranting on my first post but the card companies have ruined new cards for me and for my children. Old is the way to go for me.

[insanefishpossay]

Originally posted by Utter Chaos
Another reason the prices of older cards have plummetted is because of eBay. Dealers realize that the consumer can get the same card the dealer has for half the price on eBay so dealers have been forced to lower the prices.

But Dealers are also part of the problem as well. Probibly the majority of card dealers are "pack-feelers", they know how to carefully feel unopened packs of cards and determine which packs have game used/autos/etc.

[1984Tigers]

Originally posted by emstrem
When the card companies started mass producing cards like mad I started collecting baseball memorabilia (pre-war gloves, etc), and starting collecting things of only 1 player (Al Kaline), and old Tiger cards and memorabilia. When I was growing up you could afford a pack of cards and a soda, the prices of cards now are geared for adults and not kids with the high price and the "rarity" of certain cards. When I was a kid you'd try to build sets but thanks to the card companies it's no longer possible with 1 of 1's and such, and they have the audacity (sp?) to cut up game used equipment. Kid's today dont even know what flipping cards is, let alone using your cards to play a game of baseball with friends.

I have since amassed almost everything with Kaline's mug on it except for a very few things. I have every card of his ever made except a 55 topps and a 71 topps greatest moment. I have anywhere from 1 to 20 of most of his cards. (only a few of the ones since 1975).I have about 40 of his autograph's on everything from paintings to baseballs (5).

Thanks to the card companies I started to just collect old stuff and hof auto'd baseballs of players I like and I find it's alot more rewarding.

I also dont like the shinyness of the new cards (what's wrong with cardboard ?).

I am now starting to build a 1954 Topps baseball set in any condition I can. It's challenging and I picked this set because it's Kaline's rookie card year and it contains a low number of cards.

And like insanefish says trading is almost non existant. I quit going to card shows a few years back because all you'd see are row's upon row's of shiny metallic cards (and they only want the auto'd, game-used, etc. cards) with a handfull of vintage booths.

Also now you cant just have a Mint, or NrMint card, but it has to have a number attached to it. PSA 8, SCG 88 , qualifiers and all that junk.

Sorry for ranting on my first post but the card companies have ruined new cards for me and for my children. Old is the way to go for me.

Sweet dude, I'm doing the same thing. Getting cards for my kids, older affordable ones. But I've started collecting memorabilia. Much more interesting and worth the money. Trying to get my hands on any and everything having to do with the 1984 Tigers.

Are you in the Detroit area?

[MikeCameronFAN]

Originally posted by Utter Chaos
Another reason the prices of older cards have plummetted is because of eBay. Dealers realize that the consumer can get the same card the dealer has for half the price on eBay so dealers have been forced to lower the prices.

Cancel your subscription to Beckett and just look on eBay, because isn't eBay a true reflection of the market? I always laugh when Beckett says a card is "worth" $80 when it's selling on eBay for $20.

[emstrem]

Are you in the Detroit area?

Yes, I live in Van Buren Township/Belleville, just east of Ypsilanti. How about yourself?

[insanefishpossay]

Originally posted by Zito75
Insanefishpossay- IM me sometime and let me know if you are looking for anything.


Do you have AIM?

[1984Tigers]

Ok I just figured out what's happened to card collecting and why the hobby has been ruined...# of card sets listed in Beckett for 2003: 86 DIFFERENT SETS. # of sets in 1993: 15. # of sets in 1990: 7. # of sets in 1983: 3. # of sets in 1980: 1.

[dgarza]

Originally posted by 1984Tigers
Ok I just figured out what's happened to card collecting and why the hobby has been ruined...# of card sets listed in Beckett for 2003: 86 DIFFERENT SETS. # of sets in 1993: 15. # of sets in 1990: 7. # of sets in 1983: 3. # of sets in 1980: 1.
Beckett Baseball Card Monthly
I remember seeing how cards from, say, 1971 took up 1/3 of a page and cards from, say, 1996 took up maybe 10 pages. This was a few years back.

[insanefishpossay]

Originally posted by 1984Tigers
Ok I just figured out what's happened to card collecting and why the hobby has been ruined...# of card sets listed in Beckett for 2003: 86 DIFFERENT SETS. # of sets in 1993: 15. # of sets in 1990: 7. # of sets in 1983: 3. # of sets in 1980: 1.

I've noticed that too. I have a few complete sets from around 1991 or so, but I can't imagine trying to complete a full set today, with 5 billion different subsets, and half of the cards are #/100 or lower.

[1984Tigers]

Originally posted by insanefishpossay
I've noticed that too. I have a few complete sets from around 1991 or so, but I can't imagine trying to complete a full set today, with 5 billion different subsets, and half of the cards are #/100 or lower.

You know what upsets me the most...Besides ruining the hobby, these card companies have ruined the chance of kids ever being able to get autographs and memorabilia. At least 1/2 the sets they put out nowadays are sets in which the cards have some piece of memorabilia on the card...They'll either have an autograph, a piece of thread from a uniform, sawdust from a bat the player used, etc.
So now it's nearly impossible to get autographs, used game stuff, etc. Because they are paying these players big money to save this stuff for the card companies. And as a result anybody that sells this stuff is wanting WAY TOO MUCH money for it, and on top of that now there is no such thing as a player just signing autographs anymore. Now they demand $20-100 bucks just to sign something. I remember back in the day (we're talking barely 10-15yrs ago here) where you could always find athletes doing signings and the ones that made you pay were the exception, not the rule. Even the ones that made you pay it usually wasn't too bad.
I was looking through some listings for player signings and ALL OF THEM CHARGED to get autos, and the cheapest ones I found were like $15-30 bucks. Even that was only for a "flat item" (i.e. card or photo), they even base fee's on what they sign! And this was for guys who weren't even stars! Guys who outside the area they played are pretty much unknown!
I remember buying a George Brett signed American League baseball for $10 bucks back somewhere around '92-94. Now you'll pay AT LEAST $100 bucks for the same thing! You can't even get a ball signed by a scrub player for less than $25!
It's because the card companies have completely turned it into a money-making business for themselves and the athletes.
That used to be one of the great things about baseball...Yeah it's always had elements of it, but it wasn't 100% like that. Now it's the ONLY way things are done, rather than the way it is sometimes!

[Chisox73]

You will also notice that because of the internet(ebay especially),that many of the baseball card shops are going out of business.They just can't compete anymore.My favorite shop just a couple of blocks from my house went out of business last summer.

Unfortunately, the hobby,like any other industry,is money driven.Gone forever are the days of $.99 packs,(which in the late 80s was unheard of) with the stick of gum,which usually shattered before eating it.

As for autogtraphs.I don't mind paying for one,within financial reason of course,knowing that I will actually get to see that person sign the item at the show.I will absolutely never buy an autograph from a 3rd party.

The last autograph that I paid for was Dick Allen in Chicago a couple of years ago.I could not have met a nicer person.He was my favorite White Sox player in the 70s.The experience was well worth the $39.

He even complimented me on my '72 road jersey that I wore.

As far as cards are concerned,Topps is the only ones I go with.I'll be very happy if I ever complete my 1973 Topps set.

[abolishthedh]

The problem with "The Hobby", IMO, is that today's kids learn the wrong lessons. Today's kids learn lessons about commercialism from their collecting, whereas I learned lessons about human nature. For example, when a friend gave me his older brother's collection (gave it !), upon learning about my dad's terminal illness. (This brother was 10 years older anyway). Or, when my grandmother gave away my 1960s cards to my cousin across her hometown because she was cleaning things out and we visited too seldom. These lessons about human nature are valuable, invaluable actually. Lessons about commercialism can't compare with such stuff. Gloss cannot compare with dusty childhood recollections.

That said, I have kept about 400 cards from scrubs and over the hill stars which were not worth as much. The memories I have of my childhood are priceless when I look at, say, Clay Kirby, and I think of how in 1971 he seemed like the second coming of Tom Seaver. Or, Nate Colbert, Clarence Gaston, Ralph Garr, Bernie Carbo, Buzz Capra, ...... The price guide gives prices which are a fraction of the value of the childhood memories I have. We used to believe here in Missouri that Ted Simmons was twice the catcher that Carlton Fisk or Thurman Munson ever would be.

If kids don't hold on to their cards long enough, or hold on to their cards for financial gain, then the memories they create from "The Hobby" are all wrong. How can someone look at Arod's rookie card and seriously say to a childhood bud, "Wow, remember when we planned to buy college textbooks on this?"

I'd rather admit to thinking Clay Kirby was the next Tom Seaver.

[DodgersFan1961]

As the number of sets increased over the years, the more I stayed with vintage cards. The problem there is that graded cards are usually so expensive now. Try to get a HOFer in PSA 8 or higher. There is a Ted Williams, 59 Fleer set, all graded as PSA 9, selling on eBay right now. Still more than a day left and the set is up to $15,000. I'll bet it goes for the high teens. How can us regular folk, who buy cards for the love of baseball, afford those kind of prices? Well, I suppose it means one settles for PSA 6 and 7. As least this is my method. Sometimes I even buy lower rated cards just so I can have one and look at it. I rarely sell cards. Anyway, the highly graded cards are being gobbled up by investors. Really, anything above PSA 7 and I consider it is spectator sport (hobby).

[1984Tigers]

Originally posted by DodgersFan1961
As the number of sets increased over the years, the more I stayed with vintage cards. The problem there is that graded cards are usually so expensive now. Try to get a HOFer in PSA 8 or higher. There is a Ted Williams, 59 Fleer set, all graded as PSA 9, selling on eBay right now. Still more than a day left and the set is up to $15,000. I'll bet it goes for the high teens. How can us regular folk, who buy cards for the love of baseball, afford those kind of prices? Well, I suppose it means one settles for PSA 6 and 7. As least this is my method. Sometimes I even buy lower rated cards just so I can have one and look at it. I rarely sell cards. Anyway, the highly graded cards are being gobbled up by investors. Really, anything above PSA 7 and I consider it is spectator sport (hobby).

There have always been grumblings about cards becoming "investments", and "investors" ruining the hobby. I think we've finally just realized it to it's fullest. When cards "skyrocketing" overnight in value wasn't enough for "investors" and the people in the hobby purely for making money, now they 'grade' cards. And they've also turned to the memorabilia and autograph market and completely destroyed that. I saw an ad the other day in I think Beckett, the ad was for The Alex Rodriguez Corporation or something like that. It was some company that is partnered with A-Rod and basically their entire purpose is selling A-Rod autographs. They had it down to a science, charging based on what he signed, the size of it, if he signed anything more than his name it cost more, if it was over so many letters it cost more, if the item wasn't flat it cost more, if the picture was in color it cost more, etc. At that point it's a business, it's no longer a hobby. They've done the same thing to cards, with the graded crap, 50 sets put out by 30 different companies every year...:(

[Allie Fox]

The problem with "The Hobby", IMO, is that today's kids learn the wrong lessons. Today's kids learn lessons about commercialism from their collecting, whereas I learned lessons about human nature. For example, when a friend gave me his older brother's collection (gave it !), upon learning about my dad's terminal illness. (This brother was 10 years older anyway). Or, when my grandmother gave away my 1960s cards to my cousin across her hometown because she was cleaning things out and we visited too seldom. These lessons about human nature are valuable, invaluable actually. Lessons about commercialism can't compare with such stuff. Gloss cannot compare with dusty childhood recollections.

That said, I have kept about 400 cards from scrubs and over the hill stars which were not worth as much. The memories I have of my childhood are priceless when I look at, say, Clay Kirby, and I think of how in 1971 he seemed like the second coming of Tom Seaver. Or, Nate Colbert, Clarence Gaston, Ralph Garr, Bernie Carbo, Buzz Capra, ...... The price guide gives prices which are a fraction of the value of the childhood memories I have. We used to believe here in Missouri that Ted Simmons was twice the catcher that Carlton Fisk or Thurman Munson ever would be.

If kids don't hold on to their cards long enough, or hold on to their cards for financial gain, then the memories they create from "The Hobby" are all wrong. How can someone look at Arod's rookie card and seriously say to a childhood bud, "Wow, remember when we planned to buy college textbooks on this?"

I'd rather admit to thinking Clay Kirby was the next Tom Seaver.

I've never heard (or read) it so eloquently stated.

Beautiful.

[wamby]

Can anybody who's been in it since at least late 80's have any opinions on what happened to change the hobby so much?

One Nine Nine Four.

[pesky6]

Cancel your subscription to Beckett and just look on eBay, because isn't eBay a true reflection of the market? I always laugh when Beckett says a card is "worth" $80 when it's selling on eBay for $20.

I agree. Ebay is the new price guide.

Since I collect cards with the intention of trying to get them autographed, I typically am only interested in the "base sets." You can usually get them pretty inexpensively on the Bay. I get a set of Topps, Topps Total, Topps Heritage, and Bowman Heritage (the last two are great sets). Then when a team comes to Denver, I will pull a card for each player on the 25-man roster and head off to Coors Field.

I also collect stadium seats (the actual seat, not a card with a piece of a seat glued onto it) and Red Sox related items. If you collect what interests you, then you'll enjoy it.

[riverfrontier]

I agree. A collector accumulates anything in quantity because of its intrinsic appeal. Each one of my eight, pack bought, scuffed and battered '75 Joe Morgan cards is WORTH something to me. Each and every one. They have nearly as much time on this planet as I do, and are much more widely recognized by a great deal more people.

[vasprtsfn]

One word sums up best what the hobby has become: chrome. At one time, a company would produce the simple basic set. Then they started making these chrome cards of the exact same original product. Now, some companies make 20-30 different releases in the same year. Bottom line, there has been an excessive number of releases. And I have seen most of these additional sets, and the designs are not that great.

[wamby]

I went to card show when I was in Cleveland and it seemed like about 75% of the cards in the dealers cases were inserts. I know they are popular, but I could care less about them.

[vasprtsfn]

I went to card show when I was in Cleveland and it seemed like about 75% of the cards in the dealers cases were inserts. I know they are popular, but I could care less about them.

You could also make the case that with a lot of these athletes signing exclusive deals with card companies and signing with firms that limit where they can sell their autographs, or what they can sign, has hurt.

[19th Century Indiana Jones]

Bottom line: it has become more of a business than a hobby. Card prices are way out of wack. It goes on potential and manufactured rarity rather than accomplishment and rarity through attrition.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

I collected baseball cards in the late 1970s and in again from 1989-1992. In the latter period I tried to make it a business. I quickly realized that most poeple didn't make any money at all. In 1989 it was all about the rookie cards. I recently picked up a Beckett and was amazed. The grading system has become so complex and seems to be designed to make money for a few that have the "perfect" card. As some have already posted the overproduction has killed the "hobby". I miss how it was in the late 1970s for me. You saved three dollars and bought 12 packs to get the Johnny Bench card, or the Pete Rose card, or the Dave Parker card or the George Brett card. Those days are long gone. :(

[Mike D.]

The thing that kills me about today's hobby is that the packs are expensive, because there's all these inserts, but there's such a glut of sets out there that nothing has any real value on the secondary market. Sure, an insert might be hot for a bit and dealers slap a high price tag on it, but then the "next latest thing" comes out, and the older inserts aren't worth much.

I'd much rather buy older stuff on eBay, personally.