Your All-Time All-Star Teams, A & B

[Bill Burgess]

I know that we're done this before, but we have an entirely new cast of guys posting here now. So I'd like to see our new guys All-Time, All-Time Teams, A and B. If any of the older guys wants to re-post their teams again, be our guests. And as a new wrinkle, how about adding at the end, your top 5 all-around position players, & top 5 pitchers, too. Just to be complete. If you want.

So here's the model I'd like to see.

My All-Time All-Star team.

A team

1B - Sisler
2B - Collins
3B - Schmidt
SS - Wagner
LF - Mays
CF - Speaker
RF - Cobb
1C - Ewing
2C - Mackay
SP - Johnson
SP - Mathewson
SP - Koufax
SP - Ryan
Long Relief P - Alexander
Short Relief P - Spahn
Short Relief P - Waddell
closer - Paige
DH: - Babe Ruth, (if you believe in the DH), not required
Manager - Mack
Assistant manager - McGraw
Utility: Oscar Charleston, J. Robinson, B. Bonds, Lajoie, Clemente

B team

1B - Gehrig,
2B - Hornsby
3B - Brett
SS - Pop Lloyd
LF - Joe Jackson
CF - Clemente
RF - Aaron
1C - Bench
2C - Pudge Rodriguez
SP - Maddux
SP - M. Brown
SP - "Smokey Joe" Williams
SP - "Bullet Joe" Rogan
Long Relief P - Clemens
Short Relief P - Feller
Short Relief P - Grove
closer - Amos Rusie
DH: - Ted Williams, (if you believe in the DH), not required
Manager - Stengel
Assistant manager - Ned Hanlon
Utility: J. Morgan, Martin Dihigo, Anson, King Kelly, Bill Lange

I think it is balanced in terms of eras, black/white, offense/defense, slugger/ set-up hitter, power pitcher/control pitcher.

Top 6 Position players: Cobb, Wagner, Mays, Bonds, Ruth, Charleston,
Top 5 P: Johnson, Matty, Alexander, Grove, Paige
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Form Chart:

Catchers:

Pre-1910: Jack Clements, "Deacon" Jim McGuire, Red Charlie Dooin, Buck Ewing, Mike "King" Kelly, Charlie Bennett, Charles "Pop" Snyder, Marty Bergen, Bill Bergen, Johnny Kling, Roger Bresnahan, Chief Zimmer, Duke Farrell, John Warner, Wilbert Robinson, Doc Bushong, Moses Fleetwood Walker.

1910-60: Hank Severeid, Bob O'Farrell, Bill Killefer, Ray Schalk, Wally Schang, Johnny Bassler, Walker Cooper, Sherman Lollar, Jim Hegan, Jimmy Archer, Muddy Ruel, Steve O'Neil, Billy Sullivan, Mickey Cochrane, Bill Dickey, Gabby Hartnett, Al Lopez, Ernie Lombardi, Walker Cooper, Rick Ferrell, Yogi Berra, Roy Campanella, Del Crandall, Smokey Burgess.

1960-present: Ted Simmons, Lance Parrish, Jim Sundberg, Jerry Grote, Johnny Bench, Gary Carter, Carlton Fisk, Thurman Munson, Mike Piazza, Ivan "Pudge" Rodriguez, Bill Freehan, Benito Santiago, Charles Johnson, Bob Boone

Negro Leagues:
Josh Gibson (1929-1946)
Louis "Santop" Loftin (1909-26)
Bruce Petway (1906-25);
Frank Duncan (1920-48)
Larry Brown (1919-49)
James Raleigh "Biz" Mackey (1920-47, '50)

1B -

Pre-1900: Joe Start, Roger Connor, Charles Comiskey, Wes Fisler, Dan Brouthers, Jake Beckley, Fred Tenney, Ed Konetchy, Jake Daubert, Adrian "Cap" Anson, Dave Orr, Henry Larkin, Cal McVey.

Frank Chance, Stuffy McInnis, Jim Bottomley, Jack Fournier, Lu Blue, Hal Chase, George Sisler, Lou Gehrig, Jimmie Foxx, Hank Greenberg, Bill Terry, Johnny Mize, Ted Kluszewski, Gil Hodges, Vic Power, Orlando Cepeda, Willie McCovey, Harmon Killebrew, Wes Parker, Steve Garvey, Cecil Cooper, Cecil Fielder, Kent Hrbek, Tony Perez, Keith Hernandez, Eddie Murray, Don Mattingly, Will Clark, Mark McGwire, Jeff Bagwell, Frank Thomas, Rafael Palmeiro, Carlos Delgado, Jason Giambi, JT Snow, Todd Helton, Darien Erstad, Albert Pujols; Negro Leagues: Buck Leonard, Ben Taylor.

2B

Pre-1900: Ross Barnes, Jack Burdock, Fred Pfeffer, Cupid Childs, Bid McPhee, Jimmy Williams, Fred Dunlap, Hardy Richardson, Sol White, Frank Grant, Bud Fowler, Gene DeMontreville.

Larry Doyle, Bobby Lowe, Nap Lajoie, Eddie Collins, Rogers Hornsby, George Cutshaw, Charlie Gehringer, Frankie Frisch, Jackie Robinson, Rod Carew, Joe Morgan, Nellie Fox, Bobby Grich, Bill Mazeroski, Red Schoendiest, Ryne Sandberg, Robbie Alomar, Craig Biggio, Alfonso Soriano; Negro Leagues: Elwood "Bingo" DeMoss

SS

Pre-1900: George Wright, Ed McKean, John Montgomery Ward, Jack Glasscock, Herman Long, Hughie Jennings, George Davis, Bill Dahlen, Tommy Corcoran, Freddie Parent, Dickey Pearce

Honus Wagner, Joe Tinker, Bobby Wallace, George McBride, Roger Peckinpaugh, Everett Scott, Joe Sewell, Luke Appling, Art Fletcher, Bill Dahlen, Donie Bush, Rabbit Maranville, Glenn Wright, Arky Vaughn, Lou Boudreau, Joe Cronin, Marty Marion, Pee Wee Reese, Phil Rizzuto, Luis Aparicio, Ernie Banks, Maury Wills, Robin Yount, Cal Ripken, Alan Trammell, Dave Concepcion, Barry Larkin, Omar Vizquel, Julio Franco, Nomar Garciaparra, Derek Jeter, Alexander Rodriguez; Negro Leagues: John "Pop" Lloyd, John Beckwith, Willie Wells.

3B:

Pre-1900:
Ezra Sutton, Levi Meyerle, Bob Ferguson, Arlie Latham, Ned Williamson, John McGraw, Jimmie Collins, Bill Nash, Jim Davis, Lave Cross, Denny Lyons, Deacon White, Jerry Denny, Bill Joyce, Levi Meyerle.

Harry Steinfelft, Tommy Leach, Frank Baker, Bill Bradley, Willie Kamm, Ossie Bluege, Pie Traynor, Billy Cox, Eddie Mathews, Ken Boyer, Clete Boyer, Ron Santo, Brooks Robinson, Mike Schmidt, George Brett, Wade Boggs, Bill Madlock, Paul Molitor, Eric Chavez, Scott Rolen. Negro Leagues: Judy Johnson, Ray Dandridge, Oliver Marcell.

LF

Pre-1900: Harry Stovey, Ed Delahanty, Jesse Burkett, Jim O'Rourke, Tip O'Neill, Abner Dalrymple

Sherry Magee, Ted Williams, Stan Musial, Barry Bonds, Ricky Henderson, Carl Yasztrzemski, Joe Jackson, Al Simmons, Billy Williams, Ralph Kiner, Fred Clarke, Zack Wheat, Jimmy Sheckard, Duffy Lewis, Joe "Ducky" Medwick, Willie Stargell, Manny Ramirez.
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CF:

Pre-1900: Jimmie McAleer, Bill Lange, Jimmy Ryan, George Gore, Harry Wright, Paul Hines, Lip Pike, Tom Brown, George Van Haltren, Dummy Hoy, Billy Hamilton, Hugh Duffy, Ollie Pickering, Pete Browning, Curt Welch, Dickey Johnson, Mike Griffin

1900-1940: Ty Cobb, Tris Speaker, Eddie Roush, Max Carey, Clyde Milan, Clarence "Ginger" Beaumont, Oscar "Happy" Felsch, Chick Stahl, Johnny Mostil, Benny Kauff, Lloyd Waner, Earl Averill, Hack Wilson, Wally Berger, Earle Combs.

1940-1970: Joe DiMaggio, Willie Mays, Mickey Mantle, Duke Snider, Richie Ashburn, Pete Reiser, Larry Doby, Jim Piersall, Jim Landis, Bill Virdon, Vada Pinson, Jimmy Wynn, Bobby Thompson, Curt Flood.

1970-present: Ken Griffey, Jr., Brett Butler, Andruw Jones, Tori Hunter, Mike Cameron, Jim Edmonds, Mark Kotsay, Dale Murphy, Kirby Puckett, Bernie Williams, Carlos Beltran, Johnny Damon, Fred Lynn, Cesar Cedeno, Steve Finley, Andre Dawson, Al Oliver, Bobby Murcer, and Eric Davis, Willie McGee, Willie Wilson, Mickey Rivers and Kenny Lofton.

Negro Leaguers: Oscar Charleston, "Cool Papa" Bell, Christobal Carlos Torriente, Spot Poles, Pete Hill, Clint "Hawk" Thomas, Chino Smith, Martin Dihigo
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RF -

Pre-1900: Willie Keeler, Jimmy Fogarty, Sam Thompson, Mike Tiernan, Oyster Burns

Babe Ruth, Hank Aaron, Frank Robinson, Mel Ott, Pete Rose, Tony Gwynn, Reggie Jackson, Roberto Clemente, Paul Waner, Sam Crawford, Al Kaline, Dave Winfield, Harry Heilmann, Tony Oliva, Vlad Guerrero, Gavvy Cravath, Chuck Klein, Harry Hooper, Roger Maris, Dale Murphy, Sammie Sosa, Ross Youngs, Daryl Strawberry, Larry Walker.

Pitchers:

Pre - 1900: Tim Keefe, John "Monte" Ward, Bob Caruthers, John Clarkson, Jim "Pud" Galvin, Mickey Welch, Sadie McMahon, Jim McCormick, Charlie "Old Hoss" Radbourne, Amos Rusie, Jim Whitney, Larry Corcoran, Al Spalding, Cy Young, Kid Nichols, Charlie Ferguson, Tony Mullane, Bobby Mathews, Tommy Bond, Jim Creighton, Gus Weyhing, Jack Stivetts, Will White

1900-1930: Christy Mathewson, Rube Waddell, Mordecai Brown, Addie Joss, Ed Walsh, Walter Johnson, Grover Alexander, Eddie Plank, Joe McGinnity, Chief Bender, Ed Reulbach, Nap Rucker, Wilbur Cooper, Deacon Phillippe, Dazzy Vance, Stan Coveleski, Herb Pennock, Carl Mays, Ed Cicotte, Bill Dinneen, Ted Lyons, Eppa Rixey, Vic Willis, Hippo Vaughn, Dutch Leonard, Urban Shocker, Burleigh Grimes, Doc White, Nick Altrock, Sam Jones, Jack Coombs, Joe Wood, Jack Chesbro, Jim Bagby, Bullet Joe Bush, Waite Hoyt, Red Faber, Bob Shawkey, Ray Caldwell, Ray Collins, George Mogridge, Earl Hamilton, George Uhle, Eddie Rommel, Lefty Grove,

1930-1960: Dizzy Dean, Carl Hubbell, Whitey Ford, Robin Roberts, Wes Ferrell, Bob Lemon, Lefty Gomez, Hal Newhouser, Red Ruffing, Bucky Walters, Early Wynn, Billy Pierce, Warren Spahn, Bob Feller, Don Newcombe, Tommy Bridges, Lon Warneke, Mel Harder, Bob Turley, Harry Breechen and Bobby Shantz.

1960-1980: Nolan Ryan, Gaylord Perry, Steve Carlton, Sandy Koufax, Juan Marichal, Bob Gibson, Phil Niekro, Jim "Catfish" Hunter, Ferguson Jenkins, Wilbur Wood, Don Drysdale, Tom Seaver, Jim Bunning, Mickey Lolich, Luis Tiant, Sparky Lyle, Tommy John, Jim Kaat, Dave Stieb, Bert Blyleven, Lew Burdette, Curt Simmons, Harvey Haddix, Johnny Antonelli, Vern Law, Bob Purkey, Johnny Podres, Joe Nuxhall, Ron Perranoski, Bob Veale, Dick Ellsworth, Jim Maloney, Chris Short, Bob Friend, Jim Palmer, Milt Pappas, Jerry Koosman, Dock Ellis, Sam McDowell.

1980-Present: Greg Maddux, Roger Clemens, Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez, Curt Schilling, Jack Morris, Kevin Brown, John Smoltz, Mike Mussina, Tom Glavine.

Negro Leagues:
Robert Leroy "Satchel" Paige, 1926-1967
"Smokey Joe" Williams, 1905-1932
Wilbur "Bullet Joe" Rogan, 1917-38
"Cannonball" Dick Redding, 1911-38
Dave Brown, 1918-1925
Andrew "Rube" Foster, 1902-1926
Bill Foster, 1923-38
Ray Brown (1930-1948)
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Relievers Form Chart:


Name, Era-------------------------Saves-----G. Fin.-------INN ---------ERA+
Firpo Marberry, 1923-1936,--------101--------271----------2,067--------134
Hoyt Wilhelm, 1952-1972,--------- 227--------651----------2,254.3------146
Roy Face, 1953-1969, -------------193--------574----------1,375.0------109
Ron Perranoski, 1961-1973,--------179--------458----------1,174--------123
Dick Radatz, 1962-1969------------122--------297------------693.7------122
John Hiller, 1965-1980,-----------125--------363----------1,040--------134
Sparky Lyle, 1967-1982,-----------238--------634----------1,292--------127
Rollie Fingers, 1968-1985---------341--------709----------1,701.3------119
Rich "Goose" Gossage, 1972-1994---310--------681----------1,809.3------126
Kent Tekulve, 1974-1989,----------638--------184----------1,436.3------132
Gary Lavelle, 1974-1987-----------399--------136----------1,085.0------126
Dennis Eckersley, 1975-1998-------390--------577----------3,285.7------116
Bruce Sutter, 1976-1988-----------300--------512----------1,042.3------136
Dan Quisenberry, 1979-1990--------244--------553----------1,043.3------146
Jeff Reardon, 1979-1994-----------367--------695----------1,132.2------121
Dave Righetti, 1979-1995----------252--------474----------1,403.7------114
Jesse Orosco, 1979-2003,----------501--------144----------1,295.0------125
Lee Smith, 1980-1997--------------478--------802----------1,289.3------132
Tom Henke, 1982-95----------------311--------548------------789--------156
Doug Jones, 1982-2000,------------640--------303----------1,128.3------130
John Franco, 1984-present---------424--------770----------1,230.7------139*
Mike Jackson, 1986-2004,----------422--------142----------1,188.3------126
Jeff Montgomery, 1987-1999,-------304--------549------------868--------134
John Wetteland, 1989--------------330--------523------------765--------148
Trevor Hoffman, 1993-present------394--------578------------764.7------148*
Robb Nen, 1993-2002---------------314--------548------------715.0------138
Mariano Rivera, 1995-present------336--------424------------728.3------190*
Billy Wagner, 1995-present--------246--------417------------552.7------169*
Eric Gagne, 1999-present----------152--------197------------530--------124*
* = Still Active

[ElHalo]

A Team:

1B - Lou Gherig
2B - Rogers Hornsby
3B - Pie Traynor
SS - Honus Wagner
LF - Babe Ruth
CF - Willie Mays
RF - Joe Jackson
1C - Yogi Berra
2C - Josh Gibson
SP - Walter Johnson
SP - Christy Mathewson
SP - Sandy Koufax
SP - Mordecai Peter Centennial Brown
SP - Lefty Grove
RP - Bob Feller
RP - Bob Gibson
RP - Mariano Rivera
DH: - Ted Williams
Manager - Connie Mack
Assistant manager - Miller Huggins
Utility (since they're utility guys, I'm going to focus primarily on the types of things utility guys do... defense, pinch running, pinch hitting, rather than just have the best available player slot in).

U: Oscar Charleston
U: Rickey Henderson
U: Jackie Robinson
U: Ozzie Smith

B Team

1B - Jimmie Foxx
2B - Joe Morgan
3B - Pepper Martin (I'd be willing to enter into a debate over the reasoning behind this choice with anyone who'd like)
SS - Alex Rodriguez
LF - Mickey Mantle
CF - Tris Speaker
RF - Ty Cobb
1C - Roy Campanella
2C - Bill Dickey
SP - Grover Cleveland Alexander
SP - Nolan Ryan
SP - Carl Hubbell
SP - Pedro Martinez
SP - Dizzy Dean
RP - Satchell Paige
RP - Whitey Ford (this was my absolute last pick, and it came down to him and Waddell... I figured I'd go with Ford since somebody already mentioned Waddell).
RP - Denis Eckersley
DH: - Mark McGwire
Manager - Casey Stengel
Assistant manager - John McGraw
U: Cool Papa Bell
U: Bill Mazeroski
U: Joe Cronin
U: Al Kaline

[improbus]

well, here goes. Keep in mind that I'm an impressionistic baseball fan, not really a numbers guy.
Team A
1B-Gherig
2B-Morgan
3B-Matthews
SS-Wagner
LF-Bonds
CF-Cobb
RF-Ruth
C-Bench
C-Rodriguez
SP-Gibson
SP-Dean
SP-Feller
SP-Paige
SP-Clemens
SP-Spahn
SP-Alexander
RP-Eckersley
DH-Ted Williams
Manager-McGraw
Asst.-Sparky
U-Cronin
U-Hornsby
U-Jackie Rob.
U-Frank Rob.

Team B

1B-Foxx
2B-Lajoie
3B-Schmidt
SS-Rodgriguez
LF-Musial
CF-Mays
RF-Aaron
C-Gibson
C-Lombardi
SP-Walter Johnson
SP-Cy Young
SP-Pedro
SP-Carlton
SP-Smokey Joe Williams
SP-Roberts
SP-Maddux
RP-Rivera
DH-Ricky
Manager-Mack
Asst.-McCarthy
U-Charleston, Mantle, DiMaggio, King Kelly

I hope you don't take too much exception to this list. I'm sure I've overlooked some and overvalued others, but then again, this is TOTALLY arbitrary (especially if you don't care too much for numbers)

[RuthMayBond]

I don't know what SRP is? You didn't say if this is a team we are going to keep together with everyone coming in as rookies, or whether we should use peak value or what. Yeah I know, I waffled on a couple

A team (of course I'm gonna cram as many good guys on this as possible, leaving B team's pitchers a little worse)
1B-Gehrig
2B-Lajoie
3B-Schmidt
SS-Wagner
LF-Bonds
CF-Cobb/Mays
RF-Ruth
1C-JGibson
2C-Berra
SP-WJohnson
SP-LGrove
SP-PAlexander
SP-Clemens
SP-Paige
RP-CMathewson
RP-Nichols
RP-Seaver
DH-Hornsby/TWilliams
MGR-Alston or B. Martin (but keep him away from the starters)
UT-Mantle,Charleston,Musial,Speaker

B team:
1B-Foxx
2B-ECollins/Morgan
3B-Brett
SS-PLloyd/Ripken/Vaughan
LF-TWilliams/must put Speaker somewhere
CF-Mays/Cobb
RF-Aaron
1C-Bench
2C-Cochrane
SP-CYoung
SP-Maddux
SP-Feller
SP-Spahn
SP-Gibson
RP-Eckersley (more traditional closers)
RP-Wilhelm
RP-Rivera
RP-do I have to do anymore?
DH-McGwire?
MGR-Weaver/Valentine
UT-Dihigo

[BillyF29]

A Team:

1B: Lou Gehrig
2B: Eddie Collins
3B: Mike Schmidt
SS: Honus Wagner
LF: Ted Williams
CF: Ty Cobb
RF: Babe Ruth
C: Johnny Bench
SP: Walter Johnson
SP: Sandy Koufax
SP: Christy Mathewson
SP: Cy Young
SP: Pedro Martinez
Closer: Dennis Eckersly
DH: Barry Bonds
Manager: Connie Mack
Asst. Manager: Sparky Anderson

B Team:

1B: Jimmie Foxx
2B: Joe Morgan
3B: Pie Traynor
SS: Alex Rodriguez
LF: Stan Musial
CF: Willie Mays
RF: Hank Aaron
C: Yogi Berra
SP: Tom Seaver
SP: Nolan Ryan
SP: Pete Alexander
SP: Bob Gibson
Closer: Mariano Rivera
DH: Rogers Hornsby
Manager: Casey Stengel
Asst. Manager: Tony LaRussa

[The Dude]

Many of you probably know I love deciding things by the numbers, and while I still considered numbers with this one, I decided to go on personal feelings as well. I'm prepared to be flamed for some of my more glaring absences.

A Team-

C-Johnny Bench
1B-Lou Gehrig
2B-Joe Morgan
3B-Mike Schmidt
SS-Honus Wagner
LF-Stan Musial
CF-Willie Mays
RF-Hank Aaron
SP-Roger Clemens
SP-Pete Alexander
SP-Walter Johnson
SP-Randy Johnson
Long Relief-Hoyt Wilhelm
Short Relief-Dan Quisenberry
Short Relief-Trevor Hoffman
Closer-Mariano Rivera
DH-Paul Molitor
Utility-Rogers Hornsby
Utility-Ty Cobb
Utility-Jimmie Foxx
Utility-Alex Rodriguez
Backup Catcher-Yogi Berra
Manager-Casey Stengal
Assistant Manager-Joe Torre

B (for backup) Team-

C-Mike Piazza
1B-Jeff Bagwell
2B-Eddie Collins
3B-George Brett
SS-Robin Yount
LF-Ted Williams
CF-Mickey Mantle
RF-Babe Ruth
SP-Carl Hubbell
SP-Warren Spahn
SP-Lefty Grove
SP-
Long Relief-Kid Nichols
Short Relief-Joe McGinnity
Short Relief-Whitey Ford
Closer-Hoyt Wilhelm
DH-Edgar Martinez
Utility-Jake Beckley
Utility-Mike Schmidt
Utility-Stan Musial
Utility-Hank Aaron
Backup Catcher-Carlton Fisk
Manager-Tony La Russa
Assistant Manager-Connie Mack

[Zeth]

OK, Zeth's All-Time team, as of today. Bill, it's not *exactly* the format you asked for, but I wrote it for other purposes in addition to this board and I wanted to include the explanations, so I hope you'll let me slide with that. :) Everything that's on your team is on mine, though, except the DHs.

A TEAM

CATCHER: Josh Gibson. Gibson was one of the great sluggers in the history of baseball, and was also regarded as a good defensive catcher despite his great size. Everyone who saw him was in awe of him. I have little doubt that he was the greatest catcher in the history of the game.

FIRST BASE: Lou Gehrig. I think Lou's pretty far ahead of his competition. He was lethal with the stick, of course, and ranks among the all-time leaders in OBP, and he also played a good first base. Very consistent, as well, combining the virtues of a consistently excellent career and a very high peak.

SECOND BASE: Eddie Collins. Collins was one of the very best players in the history of the game at doing the "little things," and one of the smartest players baseball has seen. This in itself is not, contrary to popular opinion, enough to make a man an all-timer -- but it sure is when you could hit, run and field like Collins could. He was the total package.

SHORTSTOP: Honus Wagner, obviously.

THIRD BASE: Mike Schmidt. I don't think he was the glove wizard reflected in the gold glove voting -- the voters tend to pick one guy and keep giving to them until they find a real good reason not to -- but he was certainly an excellent defensive third baseman. And his offensive numbers, in an era that was close to historical norms, speak for themselves.

LEFT FIELD: Ted Williams. Possibly the greatest pure hitter in baseball history. Average to above average in fielding and running. Rates a distinct edge over Musial in my mind.

CENTER FIELD: Ty Cobb and Willie Mays, platooning. As I read all the arguments presented in these forums, as well as my own personal analysis and study, I'm slowly coming to the conclusion that Mays probably deserves to rate one notch ahead Cobb as the #2 player in history, Cobb third and Wagner fourth. I know you won't like that, Bill, but forgive me. Willie did everything Cobb could do. Cobb might have been the greatest baserunner in history -- but Willie Mays has to be one of the five greatest. He was phenomenal on the basepaths. Mays is the superior fielder. I think they rate about even as hitters. All things considered, I think Mays is a tiny squeak better, just a tad. Not enough to deny Ty Cobb a lineup spot, though. So I'll platoon them on my all-time team.

RIGHT FIELD: Babe Ruth.

EXTRA CATCHER: Johnny Bench. Bench was an all-time great as a defensive catcher, and also one of the five or ten best offensive catchers ever. If you look up "catcher" in the dictionary, there ought to be a picture of Johnny Bench.

EXTRA INFIELDERS: Joe Morgan and Alex Rodriguez. Morgan could do anything. He was fast as the wind, played outstanding defense, and had a sky-high OBP despite his mediocre average. A-Rod is the second-greatest shortstop ever, right now.

EXTRA OUTFIELDERS: I'll pick just one for this team since I have two CFs already, and it's Mickey Mantle. He had a lot of the same skills as Willie Mays (meaning, he was outstanding at everything), but injuries kept his career from being quite as great as Willie's. He did have a fantastic career, though.

STARTING PITCHERS:

Satchel Paige. I believe Satch was the greatest pitcher in history. At his best, I believe he could pitch with anyone, including Grove, Koufax, or Martinez, who had the best peaks. And of course, Satch pitched for so long that he made Nolan Ryan's career seem brief by comparison, and pitched well, even into his fifties. Satch had a fastball as good as Walter Johnson's, a lethal changeup, good curve, and uncanny control. Pete Alexander is a poor man's Satchel Paige, if that makes you understand him better. If I had to pick one pitcher at his absolute peak to win one game for me tomorrow... I would probably take Pedro or Grove, but Satchel would be in the running. If I had to pick one pitcher to have for his entire career, beginning to end, I think Satch is the obvious chioce and not even Walter can top him.

Walter Johnson. Among pitchers who actually did pitch most of their careers in the major leagues, Walter rates as the best. His contemporaries are almost unanimous about this (well, outside of New York, anyway, where, as Rob Neyer wrote, they "would have given Matty credit for the sun coming up each morning, if they thought they could get away with it", and we certainly don't have any evidence now that would make us doubt them.

Tom Seaver. This may be my most controversial choice on my A team. I believer Seaver is the greatest post-WWII pitcher, him or Spahn, who I certainly don't want to slight. This is somewhat obscured by the fact that he pitched for some bad teams, but he was really outstanding for a real long time. While the best players haven't gotten any better over time, I think it's pretty clear that the worst ones have; that is, the average or mediocre players have gotten a lot better through the years, and that has caused the overall quality of competition to increase. If you believe this to be at least somewhat true, then Seaver seems quite deserving to be placed among the greatest pitchers ever. And it does seem to me like at least one of the greatest pitchers ever would be in the last 50 years.

Lefty Grove. I want a lefthanded pitcher in my all-time team's rotation, and I believe Lefty Grove, again, ranks just ahead of Warren Spahn as the best lefty in history. He's Pedro Martinez, only much more durable.

LONG RELIEVERS: Warren Spahn and Pete Alexander.

ANY KIND OF RELIEVER YOU NEED HIM FOR: Hoyt Wilhelm. I was going to pick a short reliever (really a second closer), but Hoyt could do anything, in addition to being one of the greatest closers ever.

CLOSER: Goose Gossage. I believe Gossage is the greatest reliever in history, all things considered.

MANAGER: Connie Mack.
ASST. MANAGER: Joe McCarthy.

So that's the A Team. Now for the B team:

CATCHER: Yogi Berra. Yogi's ability to catch competently, hit as well as any catcher ever this side of Mike Piazza, and be amazingly consistent give him the edge over Mickey Cochrane's 2/3 of a brilliant career.

FIRST BASE: Mark McGwire. McGwire was as devestating an offensive force as has ever played the game, and despite his several off-seasons, his good seasons are so good that I think he belongs here. Rates an edge over Jimmie Foxx because he and Foxx are similar players, and I believe McGwire is a little better.

FIRST BASE IF YOU DQ MCGWIRE FOR STEROIDS: Jimmie Foxx.

SECOND BASE: Rogers Hornsby. Ranks behind Collins and Morgan, but no one else is even in the same galaxy as Hornsby at 2B after that, despite his poor defense.

SHORTSTOP: Cal Ripken. Our dominating images of Ripken now are his streak, and the fact that he hung on as a mediocre player for three or four years. This obscures what a great player he really was. He was the greatest hitting shortstop ever, this side of Wagner and Rodriguez, and he was an outstanding fielder as well. We seem to tend not to believe Ripken was all that great a defensive SS, because we have Phil Rizzuto and Luis Aparicio and Ozzie Smith and Omar Vizquel in our head now as the image of a good defensive SS, a little tiny guy who darts around and dives a lot. But Ripken had excellent range because he played as deep as any shortstop ever has, and had a howitzer arm.

THIRD BASE: George Brett. Home Run Baker here was originally going to be my choice, and he'd be a good one, but I decided to give the edge to Brett after accounting for the fact that the Baker Bowl heavily boosted Baker's power numbers. Brett did it all offensively and was adequate defensively. You could argue for him over Schmidt if you really like batting average and making contact.

LEFT FIELD: Barry Bonds. Actually, if you take Bonds' achievements at face value and don't worry about the steroids question marks, I think Bonds actually rates ahead of Ted Williams as the greatest LF in history. Even reverting his juiced 2001-2003 years to his career averages, what you basically have is Ted Williams, plus far superior baserunning and defense to Williams'. Bonds is legitimately one of the greatest players who ever lived. I discount ed him a bit and put him behind Williams, because I am convinced that Bonds has been on steroids since about 1999. But he's a great player even without them.

CENTER FIELD: Oscar Charleston. Charleston was a kind of combination of the best qualities of Babe Ruth and Willie Mays, if you can imagine that. He was phenomenal, by all accounts. Many observers, including a lot of respected white baseball men, including men who'd seen Ty Cobb and Babe Ruth and Willie Mays for themselves, said Charleston was the greatest player they ever saw. I may be underrating him by putting Mantle on the A team ahead of him.

RIGHT FIELD: Henry Aaron ranks far ahead of any other RF for this spot.

EXTRA CATCHER: Mickey Cochrane. I can't think of anything to say about him, really. He obviously was a great player before the beaning.

EXTRA INFIELDERS: Home Run Baker and Arky Vaughan. Even acknowledging that Baker's park inflated his home run numbers, he was a genuinely great player. Third base was a glove man's position in his day, and he was an excellent glove in addition to being an offensive force. Vaughan is eerily forgotten considering how genuinely great he was. I'll take his great bat and adequate glove over Ozzie's great glove and adequate bat. Ernie Banks is very overrated.

EXTRA OUTFIELDERS: Stan Musial and Tris Speaker. Speaker was a poor man's Ty Cobb, Musial was just, well, the man.

UTILITY MAN: Buck Ewing. I don't want to list him as a catcher because he played all over the place, but I think he has a legitimate claim to being the greatest 19th century player ever, him or Cap Anson.

STARTING PITCHERS:

Cy Young. Not much to say about him than has already been said. Unbelievable durability and was a greatly feared pitcher in his day.

Roger Clemens. I really can't stand him, but he's right with Seaver and Spahn as the greatest of the post-WWII era. I rate him a little ahead of Gibson, Marichal and Koufax because those guys pitched in the 60s, when conditions were very heavily in favor of the pitchers. I think dead-ball era pitchers as a whole are a little overrated, and 1960s pitchers are too.

Christy Mathewson. Greg Maddux is a poor man's Christy Mathewson. One of the smartest pitchers ever (He, Walter, Spahn, Robin Roberts, Bob Gibson, and Maddux are the real standouts in history as unusually intelligent pitchers), excellent control of all kinds of pitches.

Pedro Martinez. A right-handed Koufax; if he has a good year this year, that will be enough in my mind to rate him distinctly ahead of Koufax. Juan Marichal would be a poor man's Pedro.

LONG RELIEVERS: Sandy Koufax and Ol' Hoss Radbourn. Ol' Hoss was the greatest pitcher of the 19th century, if you count Cy Young in the 20th; Ol' Hoss or Kid Nichols. Koufax, you all know about. I think I have him rated about right.

SHORT RELIEVERS: Dan Quisenberry and Bruce Sutter. I just can't choose between the two. Different pitchers but had similar careers. Well, everybody's a different pitcher from Dan Quisenberry. He was one of a kind. Firpo Marberry had an awesome career. I don't know enough about him to rate him with any confidence, so I need to do some more research there.

CLOSER: Dennis Eckersley. You all know about him. Sensational for a period of 5-6 years, and pitched effectively forever.

MANAGER: John McGraw.
ASST. MANAGER: Earl Weaver.

Well, there it is. In no particular order, some guys I really cringe to leave off the team include Cap Anson, Rickey Henderson, Ozzie Smith, Jackie Robinson, Eddie Mathews, Greg Maddux, Kid Nichols, Bob Gibson (I went with Koufax over him, but it was hard), Pop Lloyd and Cool Papa Bell. Managers I wish I could get on my teams include Stengel and Whitey Herzog. But this is a crowded list, isn't it?

Here, I'll list it in short form, in case that helps :)

A TEAM

1B - L. Gehrig
2B - E. Collins
3B - M. Schmidt
SS - H. Wagner
LF - T. Williams
CF - W. Mays
RF - B. Ruth
1C - J. Gibson
2C - J. Bench
SP - S. Paige
SP - W. Johnson
SP - T. Seaver
SP - L. Grove
LRP - W. Spahn
SRP - P. Alexander
SRP - H. Wilhelm
RA - G. Gossage
Manager: C. Mack
Asst. Manager: J. McCarthy
Utility: A. Rodriguez, J. Morgan, T. Cobb, M. Mantle

B TEAM

1B - M. McGwire
2B - R. Hornsby
3B - G. Brett
SS - C. Ripken
LF - B. Bonds
CF - O. Charleston
RF - H. Aaron
1C - Y. Berra
2C - M. Cochrane
SP - C. Young
SP - R. Clemens
SP - C. Mathewson
SP - P. Martinez
LRP - S. Koufax
SRP - C. Radbourn
SRP - D. Quisenberry
(SRP - B. Sutter)
RA - D. Eckersley
Manager- J. McGraw
Asst. Manager - E. Weaver
Utility - A. Vaughan, F. Baker, S. Musial, T. Speaker

No DH's.

[Kroxquo]

My team. I am prepared to be pilloried.

A Team
C - Hannibal
1B - Face
2B - B. A. Barracas
Oh wait, that's the wrong A Team. Let me try this again

1B - Lou Gehrig
2B - Rogers Hornsby
3B - George Brett
SS - Honus Wagner
LF - Stan Musial
CF - Ty Cobb
RF - Babe Ruth
1C - Mike Piazza
2C - Yogi Berra
SP - Christy Mathewson
SP - Cy Young
SP - Walter Johnson
SP - Grover Alexander
LRP - Roger Clemens
SRP - Lefty Grove
SRP - Warren Spahn
Closer - Dennis Eckersley
There shall be no DH on any all time that I have anything to do with

Manager - Joe McCarthy
Asst. Manager - John McGraw

Utility - Henry Aaron, Willie Mays, Ted Williams, Napoleon Lajoie, Charlie Gehringer

B Team

1B - Jimmie Foxx
2B - Eddie Collins
3B - Mike Schmidt
SS - Cal Ripken
LF - Barry Bonds
CF - Tris Speaker
RF - Mel Ott
1C - Bill Dickey
2C - Johnny Bench
SP - Greg Maddux
SP - Tom Seaver
SP - John Clarkson
SP - Satchel Paige
LRP - Randy Johnson
SRP - Steve Carlton
SRP - Eddie Plank
Closer - Hoyt Wilhelm

Manager - Casey Stengel
Asst Manager - Leo Durocher
Util - Mickey Mantle, Frank Robinson, Oscar Charleston, Rod Carew, Wade Boggs

[Eddie Collins]

A Team

Rotation:
1.Walter Johnson
2.Lefty Grove
3.Cy Young
4.Roger Clemens

Bullpen:
LRP: Sandy Koufax
SRP:Christy Matthewson
SRP:Joe Williams
Closer:Bob Feller

C:Josh Gibson
1B:Lou Gehrig
2B:Eddie Collins
SS:Honus Wagner
3B:Mike Schmidt
OF:Willie Mays
OF:Henry Aaron
OF:Ty Cobb

2C:Johnny Bench
DH: Ted Williams
Util: Joe Morgan, Babe Ruth, Pop Lloyd, Tris Speaker

Mgr: John McGraw
Ast. MGR: Sparky Anderson




B Team:

Rotation:
1.Grover Alexander
2.Tom Seaver
3.Bob Gibson
4.Satchel Paige

Pen:
LRP: GregMaddux
SRP: Kid Nichols
SRP: Bullet Joe Rogan
Closer: Addie Joss

C:Yogi Berra
1B:Jimmie Foxx
2B: Nap Lajoie
SS: Willie Wells
3B: George Brett
OF:Mel Ott
OF: Oscar Charleston
OF: Mickey Mantle

2C: Ivan Rodriguez
Util: Bill Wright, Rogers Hornaby, Buck Ewing, Tony Gwynn

Mgr: Connie Mack
Ast Mgr: Ned Hanlon

[catcher24]

Been several days since anyone placed their teams on the site. Maybe too late and no one is interested, but here are mine. As Mr. Burgess did not say if this is based on peak or career value, I based my picks on career value. Some of these would change if I based on peak value.

A Team

Rotation:
1. Walter Johnson - Simply the best, IMHO.
2. Lefty Grove - Best of the southpaws.
3. Grover C. Alexander - Winning % compared to teams is the highest ever, I believe I read in a thread today. Actually made me reconsider my view on Walter, but Walter was a positive influence.
4. Rube Waddell - Wanted two lefties in the rotation, or this place might go to S. Paige or C. Mathewson. If not for his child-like mind and rather short career, may have put up even larger numbers. I will assign Walter to watch over him.

Bullpen:
LRP: Addie Joss - Unfortunate that his life ended so tragically. Could have put up astonishing numbers, and still had tremendous stats.
SRP/Utility: Martin Dihigo - Pitched marvelously, but also played every other position and was a terrific hitter, too. Led his Mexican League in 1938 in both ERA (0.90) and batting (.387).
Randy Johnson: I don't think too many lefties will be happy to see the Big Unit coming on in short relief - or right handed hitters, for that matter! When I need a big K, he'll be ready.
Closer: Hoty Wilhelm- Had a long, excellent career. After seeing my starters and middle men, batters won't know what to do with Hoyt's floater!

C: Yogi Berra - 3 MVP's, leader of numerous Yankee championship teams.
1B: Lou Gehrig - The Iron Horse is one of my two all time favorite players. Even if he wasn't, he still belongs here - tremendous power and never misses a game.
2B: Eddie Collins - An on base machine, with good power and an excellent glove. Speed not too shabby, either (just nudges out Little Joe).
3B: Mike Schmidt - Tremendous power, 10 gold gloves. What's not to like?
SS: Honus Wagner - I know I won't get any argument from anyone here. Arguably the best player ever.
LF: Ty Cobb - Hitting, speed, defense. Had to put him in.
CF: Willie Mays - My other favorite player of all time. He belongs here anyway. I grew up watching Willie play. You could see his love for the game and being on the field. He was a joy to see!
RF: Babe Ruth - Better than Cobb? Big argument going on in two or three threads, but I'll gladly have him in my starting lineup.

Backup Catcher: Johnny Bench - Considered him seriously as the starter, but Yogi did it for a longer time. If I was using peak value, Johnny would start.
DH: Ted Williams - Probably the best pure hitter to ever play. Too bad no one could get him more interested in other phases of the game, but he'll do great at DH - all he had to do is hit (and run a little). Sure would like to know what the stats would look like without the missing years!

Utility: Joe Morgan - Thought seriously about starting him, but Eddie squeezed him out.
Utility: Stan Musial - Got to get The Man on the first team. Even with his huge numbers, he is so frequently overlooked. Yeah, Sportsman's park probably helped some, but this guy could hit anywhere.
Utility: Buck Ewing - Played all over, and had good pop and great speed.
Utility: Tris Speaker - Can't believe Tris (along with Stan) as backups! Would it be great to have this team, or what.

Playing Manager: Al Lopez - Excellent manager. Only manager able to get a team home in front of the Yankee juggernaut of the 1950's. Pretty good catcher, too, if one of the others gets hurt.
Asst. Playing Manager: Fred Clarke - Won over 1600 games as a manager, and put up great offensive numbers. Don't know how much he'll play on THIS team, though (but he is the assistant manager, so who knows).


B Team

Rotation:
1. Christy Mathewson - Hate to put him on the B squad.
2. Tom Seaver - Second highest winning percentage compared to team.
3. Warren Spahn - Had to have the winningest lefty in history on the team somewhere.
4. Satchel Paige - Probably an easy 300 game winner had he been allowed to pitch in the majors. Too bad we'll never know.
Pen:
LRP: Steve Carlton - Tremendous career and stats. Unhittable slider when it was working.
SRP: Roger Clemens - Brings smoke and an attitude to the mound.
SRP: Smokey Joe Williams - Another Negro Leaguer who would have won many, many games if not for skin color.
Closer: Bob Feller - 300 wins and 3000 K's if not for the war? Something else we'll never know. Just edges out Goose Gossage.

C: Ivan Rodriguez - Not finished yet. By end of career, might work up to A team.
1B: Jimmie Foxx - Another feared slugger from the 30's. Put up incredible numbers, even adjusted for the era.
2B: Nap Lajoie - His glove brings him in ahead of Hornsby, but just barely.
3B: George Brett - Edges out Matthews. Maybe because I watched him play and mostly read about Matthews.
SS: Alex Redriguez - Yeah, the career is young yet, but the stats are very impressive, even adjusted for the era. Getting leftfielder stats from a SS, and an excellent fielding SS, too. Thanks to George, might have to move him to 3B.
OF: Barry Bonds - 600 HR, 500SB, ungodly OPS. I don't like him, but give the devil his due.
OF: Oscar Charleston - Had to get the player many consider the best Negro League player ever on one of these teams. Another tremendous player who never got to show his stuff. Branch Rickey appreciated him - Oscar helped Rickey in his decision as to which black player should be the one to break the color barrier.
OF: Mickey Mantle - If this little exercise were based on peak value, the Mick goes to the A team. Too many injuries.
DH: Hank Greenberg - I think a rather underrated player. Also lost some prime years to WWII, or probably over 400 HR.

Backup Catcher: Josh Gibson - Greatest HR hitter in Negro League history. Could easily play on the A team (as could any of these).

Utility: Bobby Grich - IMO a very underrated player. Put up very respectable numbers in a pitcher's era. Career OPS+ of 125.
Utility: Rogers Hornsby - Had to get the greatest RH hitter ever on here somewhere.
Utility: Frankie Frisch - Could play all over the infield and could hit a little,too.
Utility: Mel Ott - Greatest NL homerun hitter for many years. Good fielder, too.

Manager: Walter Alston - Only signed one year contracts, but eventually signed 23 of them.
Asst. Manager: Frank Selee - Excellent manager from an earlier era.

[nightal]

A Team
1B-Gehrig
2b-Hornsby
3b-Schmidt
SS-Wagner
OF-Ruth
OF-Musial
OF-Mays
DH-Williams
CA-Bench

SP-Johnson
SP-Gibson
SP-Grove
SP-Alexander
RP-Sutter

B Team
1B-Foxx
2B-Lajoie
3B-Mathews
SS-Vaughan
OF-Aaron
OF-Speaker
OF-Cobb
DH-Bonds
CA-Berra

SP-Clemens
SP-Seaver
SP-Carlton
SP-Mathewson
RP-Eckersley

[Bill Burgess]

I don't care if Rube's '03, '07-08 seasons were dominant or not. There are more important things in life than being good at baseball.

Rube was my very first favorite player, before I hardly knew who Ty Cobb was. Rube was so pure and lovable, that I don't know how you coundn't love him. He had a heart of pure gold.

The only surprising thing to me is how a man who was likely a high-functionging autistic, could hold his attention on one thing long enough to master its intricacies. Pitching requires a very high degree of BB smarts. And I've read a very few folks, I think it was Mack, call the Rube a pitching genius at mixing his pitches.

We were very lucky to have Rube hang around as long as he did, instead of focusing on his weaknesses, such as autism and alcoholism. He did prove his mettle, when, at the premature end of his life, he stood in freezing waters up to his armpits for a full day, to save a town, whose banks had overflooded. He did that while helping the townspeople pack sandbags on their levee.

Now that impresses me more than a career of dominant seasons.
The beautiful child-clown paid for it with his life, as he contracted TB and died not long after. BB showed it's appreciation by paying for a stone marker on his grave in San Antonio. We're a generous lot, are we not?

Bill Burgess

[leecemark]

dh ted williams - argueably best pure hitter ever
c yogi berra - most consistent and biggest winner
1b lou gehrig - ditto
2b joe morgan - best overall package
3b mike schmidt - no contest
ss honus wagner - arod his 1st challenger in 100 years
lf barry bonds - rivals ruth for #1
cf ty cobb - dominated deadball, would be great today
rf babe ruth - the greatest ever
c johnny bench - more talented than berra, but less consistent
c/ph mike piazza - hitting matters most for 3rd catcher
if alex rodreguiz - heading for ruth, bonds, cobb country
if rogers hornby - best hitting IF? or arod?
of willie mays - did it all and for a long time
of hank aaron -who better to spell the babe against tough lefties
sp walter johnson - very high and long lasting peak
sp lefty grove - even higher peak, not quite as long
sp cy young -pretty high peak, lasted forever
sp roger clemens - depending on era adj, could be #1
sp warren spaun - comparable to cy young for his time
rp goose gossage - most dominating ever
rp mariano rivera - best post season pitcher (not so bad reg)
rp sparky lyle - maybe i ought to put koufax in pen i
p ed walsh - personal favorite, but truely great
p dennis eckersly -not reall top 10, as isn't lyle, but unique in level of acheivement as starter then reliever

[Imapotato]

Team A
C- Yogi Berra
1B- Lou Gehrig
2b-Eddie Collins
3b HR Baker - many don't know he held ALL 3B records until Pie Traynor broke some...then Brooks Robinson broke the rest
SS-Honus
LF Barry Bonds
CF- Ty Cobb
RF-Babe Ruth
C2-Ray Schalk #1 in fielding for a reason
OF The Rickey
OF Mays
OF Teddy W
IF Hornsby
IF Schmidt


SP-Cy Young
SP Walter Johnson
SP- Lefty Grove
SP - Pedro Martinez

RP-Pete Alexander
RP-Big Six
RP- Spahn
RP- Carlton
Rp Seaver
Closer- Clemens

THAT team will beat anyone

TEAM B
C- Bench
1b-Sisler
2b-Jackie Robinson
3b- Pie Traynor
SS- Alex Rodriguez
LF- Sheery Magee
CF- Tris Speaker
RF- Ed Delahanty
c2- Johnny Kling (best defensive C...if only he didn't love billards!)
Utility
OF -Sosa
OF- Musial
1B - Foxx
IF - Lazzeri
IF - Pie Traynor

SP- Addie Joss
SP- Sandy Koufax
SP- Ed Walsh
SP- Smokey Joe Woods

RP- Hoyt Wilhelm
RP- Henry Schmidt (don't know who he is? Well he was a poor man's Big Six but quite baseball because he didn't like living in Brooklyn)
RP- Greg Maddux
RP- Curt Schilling
RP- Randy Johnson

Closer Rube Waddell

Not bad...

[julusnc]

Man oh man what choices face me.I have been a huge baseball fan since the mid 1970's and I thrive on making lists and arguing about the greatness of my favorite players.

First Team All-Stars

catcher - Josh Gibson
first base - Loh Gehrig
second base - Nap Lajoie
shortstop - Honus Wagner
third base - Mike Schmidt
outfield - Ty Cobb
outfield - Willie Mays
outfield - Babe Ruth
dh - Ted Williams
utility - Jimmie Foxx
utility - Yogi Berra
utility - Barry Bonds
utility - Mickey Mantle
utility - Stan Musial

starting pitcher - Walter Johnson
starting pitcher - Christy Mathewson
starting pitcher - Warren Spahn
starting pitcher - Cy Young
starting pitcher - Roger Clemens

relief pitcher - Grover Cleveland Alexander
relief pitcher - Lefty Grove
relief pitcher - Nolan Ryan
relief pitcher - Sandy Koufax
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Second Team All-Stars

catcher - Johnny Bench
first base - Oscar Charleston
second base - Rogers Hornsby
shortstop - Alex Rodriguez
third base - Pie Traynor
outfield - Al Kaline
outfield - Tris Speaker
outfield - Hank Aaron
dh - Joe Jackson
utility - Mickey Cochrane
utility - Joe Morgan
utility - Goerge Sisler
utility - Rickey Henderson
utility - Roberto Clemente

starting pitcher - Bob Feller
starting pitcher - Steve Carlton
starting pitcher - Whitey Ford
starting pitcher - Greg Maddux
starting pitcher - Carl Hubbell

relief pitcher - Randy Johnson
relief pitcher - Tom Seaver
relief pitcher - Pedro Martinez
relief pitcher - Miner Brown
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Windy City Fan]

Team A

CF Ty Cobb
SS Honus Wagner
LF Barry Bonds
RF Babe Ruth
DH Ted Williams
1B Lou Gehrig
C Johnny Bench
3B Mike Schimdt
2B Roger Hornsby

C Yogi Berra
IF Bill Dalhen
IF Joe Morgan
IF Nap Lajoie
OF Hank Aaron
OF Mickey Mantle

SP Walter Johnson
SP Christy Mathewson
SP Lefty Grove
SP Grover Alexander
SP Greg Maddux

RP Randy Johnson
RP Bruce Sutter
RP Goose Gossage
RP Dennis Eckersley
RP Hoyt Wilhelm

Team B

LF Rickey Henderson
2B Eddie Collins
CF Tris Speaker
RF Willie Mays
DH Stan Musial
1B George Sisler
C Mickey Cochrane
SS Ernie Banks
3B Wade Boggs

C Ivan Rodriguez
IF Luke Appling
IF Frankie Frisch
IF Eddie Mathews
OF Joe Dimaggio
OF Carl Yaz.

SP Cy Young
SP Tom Seaver
SP Warren Spahn
SP Steve Carlton
SP Mordecai Brown

RP Sandy Koufax
RP John Franco
RP Dan Quisenberry
RP Mariano Rivera
RP Rollie Fingers

[baclightning]

Hmmn...

Here are my two 25-man rosters. And before anyone starts castigating my relievers, remember that prior to WW2, starters did close out other's games. Lefty Grove led the AL in saves one year, so I think I can legitimately use him as my closer.

First Team

C - Josh Gibson
1B - Lou Gehrig
2B - Joe Morgan
SS - Honus Wagner
3B - Mike Schmidt
LF - Barry Bonds
CF - Willie Mays
RF - Babe Ruth
DH - Ted Williams

C - Johnny Bench
OF/IB - Stan Musial
OF - Ty Cobb
INF - Alex Rodriguez
INF - Eddie Collins
OF/1B - Oscar Charleston

SP - Walter Johnson
SP - Sandy Koufax
SP - Tom Seaver
SP - Satchel Paige

RP - Pete Alexander
RP - Cy Young
RP - Pedro Martinez
RP - Christy Mathewson

LOOGY - Rube Waddell
CL - Lefty Grove

MGR - John McGraw

Second Team

C - Yogi Berra
1B - Sadaharu Oh
2B - Rogers Hornsby
SS - John Henry Lloyd
3B - Eddie Mathews
LF - Mickey Mantle
CF - Tris Speaker
RF - Henry Aaron
DH - Jimmie Foxx

C - Mickey Cochrane
OF/3B - Mel Ott
OF - Joe DiMaggio
INF - Jackie Robinson
INF - Nap Lajoie
OF - Ichiro Suzuki
INF/OF/C/RP - Martin Dihigo

SP - Warren Spahn
SP - Roger Clemens
SP - Bob Feller
SP - Masaichi Kaneda

RP - Greg Maddux
RP - Three Finger Brown
RP - Bullet Joe Rogan

LOOGY - Carl Hubbell (yes, I know he threw a screwball)
RP - Goose Gossage

MGR - Joe McCarthy

I know I forgot someone... :ughh

[PhillyA_man]

A TEAM
1B-LGehrig
2B-ECollins
3B-MSchmidt
SS-HWagner
LF-Cool Papa Bell
CF-WMays
RF-BRuth
C-JGibson
C-MCochrane
SP-LGrove
SP-BGibson
SP-DDean
SP-BFeller
SP-RClemens
RP-Eckersley
RP-LSmith
RP-SPaige
DH-TWilliams
Man.-CMack
Asst.-DWilliams
BN-MDihigo
BN-NLajoie
BN-ARodriguez
BN-OCharleston

B TEAM
1B-JFoxx
2B-RHornsby
3B-GBrett
SS-LAparicio
LF-TSpeaker
CF-TCobb
RF-HAaron
C-BDickey
C-JBench
SP-WJohnson
SP-Smokey Joe Williams
SP-SKoufax
SP-SCarlton
SP-WSpahn
RP-Bullet Joe Rogan
RP-JFranco
RP-CHunter
DH-RHenderson
Man.-JMcGraw
Asst.-SAnderson
BN-SMusial
BN-OSmith
BN-JDiMaggio
BN-BRobinson

[schlabotnik]

Did have some time on my hands, so here goes.

A team:

1B- Killer
2B- Rajah
3B- The Vacuum Cleaner
SS- The Flying Dutchman
LF- Stan the Man
CF- Say Hey
RF- Master Melvin
1C- Mickey
2C- Yogi
SP- Barney
SP- The Meal Ticket
SP- Candy
SP- Manito
LR- Rube
SR- Hoot
SR- Chief
CL- Rapid Robert
DH- Thumper
U- Old Aches and Pains
U- Mr. Cub
U- Cool Papa
U- Gorgeous George
U- Memphis Bill
Manager- Mugsy
Asst. Man.- The Ole Perfessor

B team:

1B- Buster
2B- Larry
3B- Homerun
SS- Scooter
LF- Yaz
CF- The Yankee Clipper
RF- Wahoo Sam
1C- Schnozz
2C- Pudge
SP- Catfish
SP- The Ryan Express
SP- Miner
SP- Lefty
LR- Chairman of the Board
SR- Schoolboy
SR- Tom Terrific
CL- The Hoosier Thunderbolt
DH- The Babe
U- The big Cat
U- Buck
U- Ducky
U- Big Poison
U- Little Poison
Manager- The Lip
Asst. Man.- Doodles
--------------------------------------------
Edward Charles Ford aka Whitey aka The Chairman of the Board
Henry Louis Gehrig aka The Iron Horse aka Buster
Pack Robert Gibson aka Hoot
William Arthur Cummings aka Candy
Ernesto Natali Lombardi aka Schnozz
Lucius Benjamin Appling aka Old Aches and Pains
Earl Sydney Weaver aka Doodles
Ducky = Ducky (Joe) Medwick

[leecemark]

A Team Lineup
LF Barry Bonds
SS Honus Wagner
RF Babe Ruth
DH Rogers Hornsby
1B Lou Gehrig
CF Willie Mays
3B Mike Schmidt
C Johnny Bench
2B Eddie Collins
Bench
C Yogi Berra, Mike Piazza
IF Arky Vaughn
OF Hank Aaron, Ty Cobb, Ted Williams
Rotation
Walter Johnson
Lefty Grove
Roger Clemens
Cy Young
Pete Alexander
Bull Pen
Pedro Martinez
Sandy Koufax
Goose Gossage
Randy Johnson
Mariano Rivera

Team B Lineup
CF Tris Speaker
RF Mickey Mantle
LF Stan Musial
1B Jimmie Foxx
DH Josh Gibson
3B Eddie Mathews
SS Alex Rodreguez
C Gabby Hartnett
2B Joe Morgan
Bench
C Bill Dickey
IF Nap Lajoie, Ron Santo, Robin Yount
OF Frank Robinson, Joe DiMaggio
Rotation
Warren Spahn
Tom Seaver
Carl Hubbell
Greg Maddux
Steve Carleton
Bullpen
Bob Gibson
Whitey Ford
Bruce Sutter
Hal Newhouser
Hoyt Wilhelm

[Bucarooni]

FIRST TEAM
1st - Lou Gehrig
2nd - Joe Morgan
3rd - Mike Schmidt
SS - Honus Wagner
LF - Barry Bonds
CF - Willie Mays
RF - Babe Ruth
1C - Yogi Berra
2C - Johnny Bench
SP - Tom Seaver
SP - Roger Clemens
SP - Walter Johnson
SP - Lefty Grove
SP - Pete Alexander
RP - Goose Gossage
RP - Satchel Paige
RP - Mariano Rivera
DH - Ted Williams
Mgr - John McGraw
A. Mgr - Joe McCarthy
U - Josh Gibson
U - Oscar Charleston
U - John Henry Lloyd
U - Jackie Robinson

SECOND TEAM
1st - Jimmie Foxx
2nd - Eddie Collins
3rd - George Brett
SS - Cal Ripken Jr.
LF - Rickey Henderson
CF - Ty Cobb
RF - Hank Aaron
1C - Roy Campanella
2C - Carlton Fisk
SP - Cy Young
SP - Warren Spahn
SP - Bob Gibson
SP - Greg Maddux
SP - Sandy Koufax
RP - Dennis Eckersley
RP - Bruce Sutter
RP - Lee Smith
DH - Joe DiMaggio
Mgr - Casey Stengel
A. Mgr - Sparky Anderson
U - Christobel Torriente
U - Martin Dihigo
U - Buck Leonard
U - Ray Dandridge

[diehardyankeefan28]

C-berra
c2-bench
1b-gehrig
2b-morgan
3b-schmidt
ss-wagner
of-Bonds williams,Cobb
Dh-Ruth
rotation
Gibson
seaver
Young
W. Johnson
Clemens
bullpen
Rivera
koufax
R.Johnson
Fingers

2nd team

c-Gibson
c2-campanella
1b-McCovey
2b-J. robinson
3b-B. robinson
ss-a-rod
of-mays,clemente,mantle
dh-aaron
rotation
Ryan
carlton
Maddux
Perry
Niekro
Bullpen
gossage
f.jenkins
hunter
leftey gomez

[Bill Burgess]

Chris,

I'd like to run your A and B teams by you to see if you want to revise anything. Here they are.

Chris A
Aug. 6, 1979
Albany, NY
Gehrig
Lajoie
Schmidt
Wagner
Charleston
Mays
Cobb
J. Gibson / Berra

Johnson
Mathewson
Grove
Spahn
Young
Alexander
Nichols
Walsh
McGraw
Mack


Chris B
Aug. 6, 1979
Albany, NY
Sisler
Collins
Brett
Rodriquez
Musial
Jackson
Williams
Bench / Cochrane

Koufax
Seaver
Maddux
Feller
Gibson
Ryan
Clemens
Radbourne
Anson
McCarthy


I also lack your all time Defensive A & B teams, All Time Black A & B teams, and also your Top 100 position players, and Top 50 Pitchers. I realize that you have time constraints, but when you have the time. I'd like your teams.

Bill Burgess

[leecemark]

Bill, heres my complete roster of teams for your files. Instead of an A & B I'll provide an Old timers (anyone whose career started before WWII) and Modern All Star team. I opted not to participate in the All Black thread, but I'll give my Negro League team and my defensive team as well,
Old Timers - 25 man roster
DH Jimmie Foxx
C Mickey Cochrane
1B Lou Gehrig
2B Eddie Collins
3B Frank Baker
SS Honus Wagner
LF Ted Williams
CF Ty Cobb
RF Babe Ruth
SP Walter Johsnon
SP Lefty Grove
SP Cy Young
SP Pete Alexander
2C Gabby Hartnett
3C Buck Ewing
IF Rogers Hornsby
IF Arky Vaughan
OF Joe DiMaggio
OF Tris Speaker
P Kid Nichols
P Carl Hubbell
P Bob Feller
P Ed Walsh
P Hal Newhouser
P Christy Mathewson

Modern
DH Mickey Mantle
C Johnny Bench
1B Stan Musial
2B Joe Morgan
3B Mike Schmidt
SS Alex Rodriguez
LF Barry Bonds
CF Willie Mays
RF Hank Aaron
SP Roger Clemens
SP Greg Maddux
SP Tom Seaver
SP Warren Spahn
2C Yogi Berra
3C Mike Piazza
IF Jackie Robinson
IF Eddie Mathews
OF Frank Robinson
OF Ken Griffey Jr
P Randy Johnson
P Pedro Martinez
P Bob Gibson
P Sandy Koufax
P Juan Marichal

Negro League
DH Mule Suttles
C Josh Gibson
1B Buck Leonard
2B Bingo DeMoss
3B Judy Johnson
SS Pop Lloyd
LF Turkey Stearns
CF Oscar Charleston
RF Christobal Torriente
SP Satchel Paige
SP Joe Williams
SP Joe Rogan
SP Chet Brewer
2C Biz mackey
3C Luis Santop
IF Ray Dandridge
IF Willie Wells
OF Cool Papa Bell
OF Martin Dihigo
P Rube Foster
P Bull Foster
P Leon day
P Hilton Smith
P Bill Vyrd
P Luis Tiant Sr
--I'm not expert and if some of this roster is seriously flawed with someone great overlooked and somebody else overrated I'd appreciate some input from those more knowledgable than me.

Defensive
P Jim Kaat
C Johnny Bench
1B Kieth Hernandez
2B Bill Mazeroski
3B Brooks Robinson
SS Ozzie Smith
LF Barry Bonds (or Richie Ashburn if just 3 OF)
CF Tris Speaker
RF Al Kaline (or Willie Mays if just 3 OF)

--I'll be starting a Top 100 Position Player thread next week as the wrap up to the Top 10 by position series of threads. No sense putting one up here when I may have a slightly different one then.

[ElHalo]

A pre and post war set of teams isn't a bad idea. Though I have to ask, Mark: you really believe there are TEN prewar pitchers better than Christy Mathewson?

Anyway...

Prewar:

DH: Ted Williams
C: Mickey Cochrane
1B: Lou Gehrig
2B: Rogers Hornsby
SS: Honus Wagner
3B: Pie Traynor
LF: Joe Jackson
CF: Ty Cobb
RF: Babe Ruth

C2: Roger Bresnahan
IF: Jimmie Foxx
IF: Eddie Collins
IF: George Sisler
OF: Ed Delahanty (or Joe DiMaggio, hard time chosing this slot)
OF: Tris Speaker

SP1: Walter Johnson
SP2: Christy Mathewson
SP3: Three Finger Brown
SP4: Lefty Grove
SP5: Pete Alexander

RP: Cy Young
RP: Warren Spahn
RP: Rube Waddell
RP: Bob Feller
RP: Carl Hubbell



Postwar:

DH: Manny Ramirez
C: Yogi Berra
1B: Frank Thomas
2B: Joe Morgan
SS: Derek Jeter
3B: Alex Rodriguez
LF: Barry Bonds
CF: Willie Mays
RF: Mickey Mantle

C2: Johnny Bench
IF: Ernie Banks
IF: Mike Schmidt
OF: Hank Aaron
OF: Ichiro Suzuki
OF: Frank Robinson

SP1: Pedro Martinez
SP2: Randy Johnson
SP3: Roger Clemens
SP4: Sandy Koufax
SP5: Whitey Ford

RP: Bob Gibson
RP: Tom Seaver
RP: Steve Carlton
RP: Nolan Ryan
RP: Mariano Rivera

[The Only Nolan]

I modified my all-time 25 man roster to fill backup roles at each position and give roles to pitchers:

A-Team

c- Josh Gibson
c- Yogi Berra
1b- Lou Gehrig
1b- Stan Musial
2b- Rogers Hornsby
2b- Eddie Collins
3b- Mike Schmidt
3b/ss- Alex Rodriguez
ss- Honus Wagner
lf/dh- Ted Williams
lf- Barry Bonds
cf- Willie Mays
cf- Ty Cobb
cf- Oscar Charleston
rf/dh- Babe Ruth
rf- Mickey Mantle
starting p- Walter Johnson
starting p- Lefty Grove
starting p- Roger Clemens
starting p- Randy Johnson
occasional 5th starter/reliever- Pete Alexander
long relief p- Cy Young
long relief p- Greg Maddux
setup man- Sandy Koufax
closer - Satchel Paige

Manager: Joe McCarthy

B-Team

c- Johnny Bench
c- Mike Piazza
1b- Jimmie Foxx
1b/lf- Mule Suttles
2b- Nap Lajoie
2b- Joe Morgan
3b- Eddie Mathews
3b- George Brett
ss- Pop Lloyd
ss- Arky Vaughan
lf/dh- Turkey Stearnes
cf- Tris Speaker
cf/dh- Joe DiMaggio
rf- Hank Aaron
rf- Frank Robinson
starting p- Christy Mathewson
starting p- Tom Seaver
starting p- Bob Gibson
starting p- Steve Carlton
occasional 5th starter/reliever- Bob Feller
long reliever- Warren Spahn
long reliever- Kid Nichols
setup man- Mordecai Brown
closer- Pedro Martinez

Manager: John McGraw

[Imapotato]

Just wanted to throw this out

Ballpark Factors for

Willie Mays

Polo - NYG
AVG RHB: 105
AVG LHB: 100
HR RHB: 156
HR LHB: 101
2B: 101
3B: 93

Candlestick Park

AVG RHB: 96
AVG LHB: 101
HR RHB: 97
HR LHB: 101
2B: 94
3B: 85


Ty Cobb

Navin Field

AVG RHB: 95
AVG LHB: 94
HR RHB: 133
HR LHB: 122
2B: 84
3B: 87


Plus Mays got to play in more hitter friendly parks, Polo Grounds, Shibe, Ebbets, Crosley, County where CObb had Griffith Stadium, Comiskey and LH hinderance Fenway Park (yea, before Williams and moving back the fence LH stunk there)

So who was the better overall CF?

[leecemark]

--I don't think I'd fight to the death for these exact rankings, although Grich and Maz on top and Soriano and Carew at the bottom I'm pretty sure of. Not sure why Grich made the modern list, while Morgan and Carew are old timers though. They played at almost exactly the same times.
--Modern: Grich, Sandberg, Alomar, Biggio, Kent, Soriano
--Classic: Maz, McPhee, Fox, Robinson, Gehringer, Collins, Lajoie, Morgan, Evers, Hornsby, Carew.

[RuthMayBond]

Grich, Sandberg and Biggio are pretty much neck-in-neck (maybe I could break my tie if I decided my undecided hypothetical Gold Gloves). Then Alomar, Kent and Soriano.

Maz, McPhee, Fox & Collins are so awesome it's hard to pick among them. Slightly below that would be Lajoie, then Gehringer. Then you've got the merely good or worse, with possibly Carew (not sure what to do with his split time), Morgan, Evers (overrated), JRobinson (split time again), Frisch and Hornsby. Flame away :laugh

[Windy City Fan]

My all time team has changed a bit.

C Mickey Cochrane
1B George Sisler
2B Eddie Collins
SS Honus Wagner
3B Micke Schimdt
RF Babe Ruth
CF Ty Cobb
LF Barry Bonds
DH Ted Williams

SP Walter Johnson
SP Lefty Grove
SP Cy Young
SP Greg Maddux
SP Pete Alexander

RP Hoyt Wilhelm
RP Mariano Rivera
RP Goose Gossage
RP Bruce Sutter
RP Dennis Eckersley

B Team

C Johnny Bench
1B Lou Gerhig
2B Rogers Hornsby
SS Alex Rodriguez
3B Eddie Mathews
RF Stan Musial
CF Willie Mays
LF Joe Jackson
DH Hank Aaron

SP Roger Clemens
SP Christy Mathewson
SP Tom Seaver
SP Stachel Paige
SP Randy Johnson

RP Rollie Fingers
RP Lee Smith
RP John Franco
RP Dan Quisenberry
RP Trevor Hoffman

[Sirmudgeon]

Hi there , I just got to the party, when all the discussions had turned from stars to steroids. I'd love to address the all-star team question, with a brief homily to the concern of the moment, steroids.

In every walk of life, there are "cheaters", and for every era, there are new ways to "cheat": booze, "greenies", "red juice", "clear and cream", do you really care? C'mon, Ruth's an icon and he spent 1925 drunk. Aaron and Mays are heroes with obvious amphetamine histories. Gosh, Joe Jackson "unwittingly" helped "fix" a World Series. Pete Rose bet on baseball- so what, even if he bet against his own team, so what? Life's a game, full of "cheaters", and everyone knows who they are, just like at your job- we all know who the jerks are, but there is no ultimate arbiter to call people on their behavior. Speak up at the time, or shut up. If a Canseco suddenly gets big, if a FloJo suddenly looks all different, if a Dutch female swimmer shows up with a new linebacker face, we all can figure out that something is up. If we say nothing as records tumble, sorry, we are tacitly accepting this behavior. Speak up, or shut up. Don't condemn a Bonds, or a Rose, or a Cobb in retrospect because they are jerks- condemn them at infraction or not at all. Revisionism should not apply.

That rant aside, some all-time all-stars come to mind...

1B is Gehrig's, due to stats and apparent peer respect. Foxx the Beast is #2, though I can't see him playing second fiddle. Anson and Sisler would be right there. Players like McGwire I see in the second tier, with Greenberg, Terry, even McCovey and Stargell.

2B needs go to Hornsby, as he could hit a little by all accounts (.400+ three times and 40 dingers, dead ball era, a little anal retentive re movies and eyesight). LaJoie is real close, and I think that Morgan and Kent are also good options. Guys like Alomar never had the "feel" from a casual observer's perspective, seemed over-hyped.

SS is Honus Wagner and a bunch of pretenders until we get to the last several decades in this, the most changed position. Yount, Ripken, A-Rod, Nomar, these guys can hit. Throw Banks in there, MVP twice on bad Cub teams, but it doesn't really change the top two, Wagner and A-Rod. That said, if I can't have a bopper, sign me a Rabbit Maranville, a Pee Wee Reese or Phil Rizzuto, a Derek Jeter, a LEADER, and it would work.

3B is the really obvious answer, 'cause Schmidt is the man here. Brooks could cover, Big Poison Waner and Pie could play, heck so could Pepper the Wild Horse of the Osage Martin, there is no real debate here.

LF is Barry Bonds going 3 for 4 with a single, double, homer, stolen base, 3 RBI, an intentional walk, threw a guy out at second, held a guy from scoring from second on a single to left center, and barely managed to avoid drowning during the brief rain delay, his nose was so far in the air. Hate him, gotta give him credit. Teddy Ballgame played here, not that well in the field, love him at the plate, more bad general attitude, wonder what his stats would have been without two wars during his prime (yeah, he played in those, too).

CF is played by Willie Mays, period end of story. Cobb has the numbers, and the respect, and is probably a nose ahead from a statistical standpoint. I don't know about defense, though, I'd choose Speaker, then Mays. On offense, Cobb until he met Drysdale and Gibson.

RF is Ruth, though he played lots of left. He is the man, all-around, and check any stat comparison you wish re pitcher/hitter combos. Gotta love Musial, and Clemente is a team cornerstone in any era, but the Babe is the Man.

C is a rough call, with several older veterans, some more recent reps, and a current thought. Last first, Piazza can hit a ton but drags on D. Campanella, Berra, even Cochrane and Dickey for a time were the premieres. Choice is Bench- can't pitch to him at bat, can't not pitch to him behind the plate, can't run on him, controlled the game.

Pitchers are harder, as there are so many great ones. Again, the trap is over-modernizing.

Next message: pitching staff...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
My inflated opinion of my own baseball knowledge hath plummeted considerably, like the proverbial led zeppelin, thanks to Keith Moon and you bunch of yahoos. I decided to take a glance at some of the other posts (I am new at this, you may recall) attached to this thread (trust I'm using all the lingo correctly, this is my initial foray into near-personalised compuconverse). Boy howdy, do you folks know your stuff. Not only did people know who Rabbit Maranville was, he had been discussed at some length, though not to the extent that the 1890's had been dissected for talent. Yikes, y'all probably wouldn't miss a beat with my all-time favourite trivia query, who turned the only unassisted triple play in WS history. I can mispronounce, misspell, and generally mangle "Wambsganss" and still befuddle at ten paces. Till now. I am so far out of my league, I want crying reinstituted in baseball.

Nonetheless, I endeavour to perservere. I am not so sure I agree with your police work, there, Mr. Burgess. Two catchers, eight pitchers (4 & 4), a manager and an assistant manager? Dang, let's add Big Bill and Odd Ron and have ourselves an umpiring crew. If you wish a #2 catcher, let's talk a 25-man roster, with 10-12 hurlers and 5-7 assorted bats and gloves. Then you start with intangibles, because you can't have a Big Dog riding the pine, he'll eat the baby or the mailman or some such. You also need some chutzpah, though, to pinch hit for Ruth 'cause he's hammered. Basically, you need a passive aggressive type with an over-developed sense of duty and a hearty appreciation of everyone else's shortcomings. In sum, he must give good heckle.

Now that I've approached the issue, I intend to adroitly sidestep it in deference to the Big Brain on Brad, and let you experts run with it. Me, I'd use some sudden thunder backups: McGwire, Mantle, the Martin-ettes (Pepper and Billy), Ozzie, Jeff Kent, and one more suitably weird outfielder (Kingman, Sosa, Country Slaughter, Medwick, Hack Wilson, Rice, Strawberry, you get the idea). These are mostly guys that could produce miracles in the short run, then go back and play by themselves in the corner whilst those who play well with others got the ball. These guys would, by and large, self-medicate. They wouldn't have the oomph to mutate malignantly amongst their peers, so would just fester until they got their chance to go all medieval on some luckless opponent.

This segues neatly into the Manager position, which for reasons of karmic feng shui could only be held by Phil Jackson. Let his assistant, Leo Durocher, know baseball, and hate passionately. Phil the Human Valium Prescription would be necessary for the team o' ego slung together as above. Speaking of slinging, did you people, baseball in your blood, sign some sort of soul exchange? A DESIGNATED HITTER? FIE AND SHAME! Don't let's speak of this again.

The rant continueth unto avoidance of a pitching staff for a bit, as they are hanging out with our #2 catcher, Mr. Dickey, who can handle bullpen backstop duties while he waits for Bench to do something silly like think the Big Train's changeup is Borbon doggin' it and try to catch the Walter barehanded.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
The ol' carny pitch(men)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A pitching staff is the most problematic portion of an all-time roster, given radically different techniques, rules, approaches, and utilisations of hurlers o'er time immemorial. Nonetheless, several folk do a bit of a stand out routine.

SP Walter Johnson, the Big Train was the Ruth of pitchers, looking at his K count in a contact era. Legend has it that he was so fast he was afraid to throw inside and hit/kill someone. Well, a glimmer at the stats sheets gives the Big Swede over 200 HBP. C'mon, 416 wins for the SENATORS?!?

SP Lefty Grove, threw HARD, didn't do too badly in the best hitting era ever (late 20s to mid 30s, won his 300), no slouch on the mean, either. Just looked like a pitcher who could out-throw, out-pitch, out-smart, get you out.

SP Christy Matthewson, Big Six had a micro ERA, lifetime, and invented the
slider. That, 373, and 3 ShOs in a WS, enough said.

SP Bob Feller, Rapid Robert, missed the prime of his career for WWII and still won 240+. Would have won >350, was the toughest P of his day. Could throw over 70 when HE was over 70.

SP/LR Sandy Koufax, if only for that five year period.

SP/LR Steve Carlton, no one had any business winning that many games for the 60s Phillies.

SP/LR Carl Hubbell, for a change of pace, and for that All-Star game (the impressive K there was Aloysius Syzmanski, shouldn't King Carl have lost just a touch of concentration by then?).

LR Warren Spahn, to eat up the middle innings, and thoroughly confound in general.

LR Nolan Ryan, 'cause he could throw it through a brick wall when he was 15 and when he was 45 and every day in between, then snap off a curve to jellify the knees.

SR Randy Johnson, see John Kruk, Larry Walker, and every other hot stuff lefty hitter in the past 15 years, with the possible exception of Bonds.

SR Dennis Eckersley, who could not would not should not did not throw a ball.

I reckon that staff could stand up a bit. Lot of lefties, lot of fireballers, seems to have won a few along the way, that combo. Guy like Maddux is knocking at the door, as is Pedro at his peak, ditto Clemens, but they don't make this cut.

OK, enough of this folderol. Enjoy, gentlefolk. Not much feedback here so perhaps I'll peek at another story or so.

[The Dude]

As with WCF, mine has changed a lot as well. For the benches and relief pitchers, I chose the the players more 2ndly. So I went with my 1-4 pitchers at my starters on team a, and 9 for the long relief on the A Team. Same with the relif pitchers. For closer I went with my no.1, then skipped to 3 and 4 for the short relief

C-Johnny Bench
1B-Lou Gehrig
2B-Eddie Collins
3B-Mike Schmidt
SS-Honus Wagner
LF-Stan Musial
CF-Willie Mays
RF-Babe Ruth
SP-Randy Johnson
SP-Walter Johnson
SP-Grover Cleveland Alexander
SP-Lefty Grove
Long Relief-Greg Maddux
Short Relief-Rollie Fingers
Short Relief-Mariano Rivera
Closer-Hoyt Wilhelm
DH-Paul Molitor
Manager-Casey Stengal
Assistant Manager-Fred Clarke

B (for backup) Team-

C-Mickey Cochrane
1B-Jimmie Foxx
2B-Rogers Hornsby
3B-Wade Boggs
SS-Alex Rodriguez
LF-Ted Williams
CF-Ty Cobb
RF-Hank Aaron
SP-Addie Joss
SP-Sandy Koufax
SP-Christy Mathewson
SP-Juan Marichal
Long Relief-Warren Spahn
Short Relief-Bruce Sutter
Short Relief-Trevor Hoffman
Closer-Dennis Eckersley
DH-Edgar Martinez
Manager-Earl Weaver
Assistant Manager-Connie Mack

[Metal Ed]

Okay, I'll bite.

A Team:

C- Johnny Bench
1B- Lou Gehrig
2B- Joe Morgan
SS- Honus Wagner
3B- Mike Schmidt
LF- Ted Williams
CF- Willie Mays
RF- Babe Ruth
SP- Roger Clemens
SP- Randy Johnson
SP- Lefty Grove
SP- Tom Seaver
SP- Warren Spahn
Relievers- Hoyt Wilhelm, Dennis Eckersley
Utility- Martin DiHigo
Mechanic: B.A. Baracus


B Team:

C- Josh Gibson
1B- Jeff Bagwell
2B- Jackie Robinson
SS- A-Rod
3B- George Brett or Eddie Matthews
RF- Hank Aaron
CF- Ty Cobb
LF- Barry Bonds
SP- Sandy Koufax
SP- Pedro Martinez
SP- Greg Maddux
SP- Christy Mathewson
SP- Bob Gibson
Relief: Goose Gossage, Mariano Rivera

Here's what I don't get about Walter Johnson. How am I supposed to put a guy with one pitch in as a starter against modern hitters and expect him to go through the batting order 3 or 4 times with just his fastball? We have guys with only one pitch today, and they're called closers. Johnson is the one guy who I simply cannot resist playing time machine with when making my evaluations. I am utterly baffled by his success as a starter with a single pitch. It'd never fly today. I bet it works great if you're the only guy in the league who can crack 95 mph, though.

[Pghfan987]

My picks:

1B: Musial
2B: Hornsby
SS: Wagner
3B: Foxx
LF: Bonds
CF: Mays
RF: Cobb
C: Gibson
C: I-Rod
DH: Ruth
SP: Walter Johnson
SP: Mathewson
SP: Alexander
SP: Maddux
SP: Paige
LRP: Bob Feller
MRP: Carl Hubbell
MRP: Hoyt Wilhelm
CP: Rivera

U: Joe Jackson
U: Ozzie Smith
U: Cool Papa Bell
U: Killebrew


Manager: Connie Mack
Assistant: Tommy LaSorda

Bat boy: ME!

B-team

1B:Gehrig
2B: Morgan
SS: Ripken (hey, it's my list. He's becomes the clubhouse leader)
3B: Schmidt
LF: Aaron
CF: Speaker
RF: F-Rob
C: Berra
C: Bench
DH: Mantle
SP: Randy Johnson
SP: Spahn
SP: Grove
SP: Young
SP: Pedro
LRP: Bob Gibson
MRP: Marichal
MRP: Carlton
CP: Eck
U: Jackie Robinson
U: Reggie Jackson
U: Rickey Henderson
U: Joe DiMaggio

Manager: Bobby Cox (incredibly underrated, IMO)
Assistant: Miller Huggins




I hope this meets the format requirements!

Mark

[Etheridge2]

My All-Time All-Star team.

A team (This is the team I would put together if I could, and has more to do with personal favorites then with skill, but it would be a pretty formidable team.

1B - Stan Musial
2B - Ryne Sandberg
3B - George Brett
SS - Ozzie Smith
LF - Rickey Henderson
CF - Oscar Charleston
RF - Roberto Clemente
1C - Ivan Rodriquez
2C - Josh Gibson
SP - Walter Johnson
SP - Roger Clemens
SP - Bob Gibson
SP - Satchel Paige
SP- Warren Spahn
Long Relief P - Grover Cleveland Alexander
Middle Relief P- Babe Ruth
Short Relief P - Sandy Koufax
Short Relief P - Christy Matthewson
closer - Randy Johnson
Manager - Bobby Cox
Assistant manager - Yogi Berra
Utility: Jackie Robinson, Martin Dihigo, Pete Rose, Cool Papa Bell, Craig Biggio, Robin Yount

B team

1B - Gehrig,
2B - Hornsby
3B - Schmidt
SS - Wagner
LF - Williams
CF - Cobb
RF - Aaron
1C - Bench
2C - Piazza
SP - Greg Maddux
SP - Cy Young
SP - Lefty Grove
SP - Bob Feller
SP- Steve Carlton
Long Relief P - Carl Hubbell
Middle Relief P- Juan Marichal
Short Relief P - Tom Seaver
Short Relief P - Jim Palmer
closer - Dennis Eckersly
Manager - Connie Mack
Assistant manager - Casey Stengel
Utility: Joe Morgan, Alex Rodriquez, Barry Bonds, Lou Brock, Dale Murphy, Tris Speaker


Top 5 PP: Charleston, Ruth, Cobb, Mays, Bonds, Dihigo 9Have to include him)
Top 5 P: Johnson, Matthewson, Alexander, Gibson, Paige,

[moviegeekjan]

Must be older thread... hadn't noticed this one before:

My All-Time All-Star team.

A team

1B - Musial
2B - Hornsby
3B - Schmidt
SS - Wagner
LF - Mays
CF - Cobb
RF - Ruth
1C - J. Gibson
2C - Ewing
SP - W. Johnson
SP - Mathewson
SP - Koufax
SP - B. Gibson
Long Relief P - Alexander
Short Relief P - Spahn
Short Relief P - Feller
closer - Paige

Manager - Mack
Assistant manager - Stengel
Utility: Oscar Charleston, J. Robinson, Lajoie, Pujols, B. Bonds

B team

1B - Gehrig,
2B - Collins
3B - Rolan
SS - O. Smith
LF - T. Williams
CF - Speaker
RF - Aaron
1C - Bench
2C - I. Rodriguez
SP - Grove
SP - Clemens
SP - R. Johnson
SP - "Bullet Joe" Rogan
Long Relief P - Clemens
Short Relief P - Hubbell
Short Relief P - Jose Mendez
closer - Eckersley

Manager - McGraw
Assistant manager - Herzog
Utility: J. Morgan, Biggio, Clemente, Yount, Cristobal Torriente

[SABR Matt]

OK...I'll pick 25 men per side

My A Squad

Line-up

C - Ivan Rodriguez
1B- Lou Gehrig
2B- Eddie Collins
3B- Mike Schmidt
SS- Honus Wagner
LF- Ted Williams
CF- Willie Mays
RF- Babe Ruth
DH- Ty Cobb

Rotation

SP1- Walter Johnson
SP2- Greg Maddux
SP3- Roger Clemens
SP4- Cy Young
SP5- Christy Mathewson

Bullpen

CL- Dennis Eckersley
SU- Mariano Rivera
SU- Lee Smith
MR- Rollie Fingers
LR- Hoyt Wilhelm

Reserves

BC- Carlton Fisk
CIF- Jimmie Foxx
MIF- Joe Morgan
OF4- Stan Musial
UT- Bid McPhee

My B Team

Lineup

C - Johnny Bench
1B- Willie McCovey
2B- Rogers Hornsby
3B- Eddie Mathews
SS- Cal Ripken Jr.
LF- Rickie Henderson
CF- Tris Speaker
RF- Hank Aaron
DH- Barry Bonds

Starting Rotation

SP1- Tom Seavor
SP2- Pete Alexander
SP3- Randy Johnson
SP4- Nolan Ryan
SP5- Warren Spahn

Bullpen

CL- Goose Gossage
SU- Bruce Sutter
SU- Tom Gordon
MR- Ron Reed
LR- Pedro Martinez

Bench

BC - Gary Carter
CIF- George Brett
MIF- Nap LaJoie
OF4- Mickey Mantle
UT- Pete Rose

[The Splendid Splinter]

OK... I edited my team again after looking at this one and needed to make some changes.

A Team:

C- Josh Gibson
1B- Lou Gehrig
2B- Rogers Hornsby
3B- Alex Rodriguez
SS- Honus Wagner
LF- Oscar Charleston
CF- Willie Mays
RF- Ty Cobb
DH- Babe Ruth

Util:
C- Johnny Bench
IF- Eddie Collins
IF- Pop Lloyd
OF4- Ted Williams
OF5- Stan Musial


Starting Rotation:
1. Walter Johnson
2. Christy Mathewson
3. Lefty Grove
4. Stachal Paige
5. Smokey Joe Williams

Bullpen:
LR- Greg Maddux
LR- Grover "Pete" Alexander
MR/SU- Hoyt Wilhelm
MR/SU- Rube Waddell
CL- Mariano Rivera
SP/LR/MR/SU/CL- Dennis Eckersley


B Team:

C- Biz Mackey
1B- Jimmie Foxx
2B- Nap Lajoie
3B- Mike Schmidt
SS- Arky Vaughan
LF- Barry Bonds
CF- Tris Speaker
RF- Shoeless Joe Jackson
DH- Mickey Mantle

Util:
C- Louis Santop
IF- George Sisler
IF- Charlie Gehringer
OF4- Rickey Henderson
OF5- Hank Aaron


Starting Rotation:
1. Cy Young
2. Addie Joss
3. Roger Clemens
4. Sandy Koufax
5. Pedro Martinez


Bullpen:
LR- Mordecai "Three Finger" Brown
LR- Randy Johnson
MR/SU- Hubbell
MR/SU- Rollie Fingers
CL- Nolan Ryan
SP/LR/MR/SU/CL- John Smoltz

[torez77]

Here are my All-Star Teams A & B in the requested format, plus lineups:

Team A
C: Gibson
1B: Gehrig
2B: Hornsby
3B: Boggs
SS: Wagner
LF: Ruth
CF: Mays
RF: Cobb
DH: Williams

Lineup
1) Cobb
2) Hornsby
3) Williams
4) Ruth
5) Gibson
6) Gehrig
7) Mays
8) Boggs
9) Wagner

SP's: W Johnson, Koufax, Grove, Clemens, Martinez ( can't pick a rotation!)
RP's: Eckersley, Rivera, Wagner


Team B
C: I-Rod
1B: Foxx
2B: Lajoie
3B: Brett
SS: A-Rod
LF: Jackson
CF: Mantle
RF: DiMaggio
DH: Bonds

Lineup
1) Jackson
2) Lajoie
3) Bonds
4) Foxx
5) Mantle
6) DiMaggio
7) A-Rod
8) Brett
9) I-Rod

SP's: Maddux, Paige, Mathewson, R Johnson, Waddell
RP's: Gossage, Gagne, Wilhelm


Not 100% sure about my B team. But my A Team is pretty well set.
I didn't include Schmidt cuz I don't like his BA and K's, and I've got plenty of power elsewhere in the lineups. Let me clarify that these are not necessarily who I think are the greatest at each positions (for the most part they are) but just lineups that suit my fancy.

[Blackout]

--REVISED--

Team A Line-up

C - Josh Gibson
1B- Lou Gehrig
2B- Rogers Hornsby
3B- Wade Boggs
SS- Pop Lloyd
LF- Ted Williams
CF- Tyrus Cobb
RF- Babe Ruth
DH- Mickey Mantle

Rotation

SP1- Walter Johnson
SP2- Roger Clemens
SP3- Pedro Martinez
SP4- Satchell Paige
SP5- Christy Mathewson
Closer: Rivera

Team B:

C-Yogi Berra
1B-Jimmie Foxx
2B-Nap Lajoie
SS-Honus Wagner
3B-Mike Schmidt (soon to be replaced by Arod)
LF-Barroid Bonds*
CF-Joe Dimaggio
RF-Hank Aaron
DH-Oscar Charleston

SP1-Lefty Grove
SP2-Cy Young
SP3-Randy Johnson
SP4-Whitey Ford
SP5-Bob Gibson
Closer-Eric Gagne

[Growwch]

My first post here, and I'll put on the flamesuit...I'm not nearly the historian many of you are, but the A-team is my best wag, considering my limited reading--James, Koenig, a few others. It's tough to split hairs even farther over guys I've never seen play. The B-team is the best I've seen since I've followed baseball (from 1971-present, excluding the A-teamers). Hope that makes sense.

C - Berra (Yogi, not Dale)
1B - Gehrig
2B - Hornsby
3B - Schmidt
SS - Wagner
LF - Williams (Ted, not Gerald)
CF - Mays
RF - Ruth
SP1 - W. Johnson
SP2 - Grove
SP3 - Clemens
SP4 - Koufax
Long Relief - Spahn
Short Relief - Waddell
Short Relief - Feller
Closer - Eckersley
DH - Bonds (Barry, not Gary U.S.)
Manager - McGraw

B- Team (guys I've seen play, if not on the A team)
C - Bench
1B - Bagwell
2B - Morgan
3B - Brett
SS - A. Rodriguez
LF - Rickey Henderson
CF - Griffey Jr
RF - Aaron
SP1 - Seaver
SP2 - Carlton
SP3 - Gibson
SP4 - Maddux
Long Relief - Smoltz
Short Relief - P Martinez
Short Relief - Ryan
Closer - Rivera
DH - F Thomas
Manager - LaRussa

[538280]

The A Team:

C-Josh Gibson
1B-Lou Gehrig
2B-Joe Morgan
3B-Mike Schmidt
SS-Honus Wagner
LF-Barry Bonds
CF-Willie Mays
RF-Babe Ruth

SP1-Greg Maddux
SP2-Roger Clemens
SP3-Walter Johnson
SP4-Tom Seaver
SP5-Pete Alexander

RP1-Hoyt Wilhelm
RP2-Goose Gossage
RP3-Mariano Rivera
RP4-Billy Wagner

The B Team:
C-Johnny Bench
1B-Frank Thomas
2B-Rogers Hornsby
3B-Eddie Mathews
SS-Cal Ripken
LF-Ted Williams
CF-Mickey Mantle
RF-Hank Aaron

SP1-Cy Young
SP2-Lefty Grove
SP3-Bob Gibson
SP4-Steve Carlton
SP5-Warren Spahn

RP1-John Franco
RP2-John Hiller
RP3-Bruce Sutter
RP4-Lee Smith

[flash143817]

A Team

1B - Lou Gehrig
2B - Rogers Hornsby
3B - Mike Schmidt
SS - Honus Wagner
OF - Ty Cobb
OF - Willie Mays
OF - George Ruth
DH - Ted Williams

RHP - Walter Johnson
LHP - Sanford Braun
RHP - Pedro Martinez
LHP - Randy Johnson
LHP - Lefty Grove
Closer - Eric Gagne

Manager - John McGraw

I can't pick a B team at this time.

[BoSox Rule]

My A-Team

C: Ivan Rodriguez
1B: Lou Gehrig
2B: Eddie Collins (A really hard choice between Collins, Morgan, and Hornsby)
SS: Honus Wagner
3B: Mike Schmidt
LF: Barry Bonds
CF: Willie Mays
RF: Babe Ruth
DH: Ted Williams

SP: Roger Clemens
SP: Pedro Martinez
SP: Greg Maddux
SP: Tom Seaver
SP: Bob Gibson

RP: Mariano Rivera
RP: Hoyt Wilhelm

[charlesTG126]

The A Team

SS Honus Wagner
2B Rogers Hornsby
DH Babe Ruth
LF Ted Williams
RF Joe Jackson
CF Willie Mays
C Josh Gibson
1B Stan Musial
3B Mike Schmidt

SP Christy Mathewson

P Lefty Grove
P Cy Young
P Sandy Koufax
P Goose Gossage
P Warren Spahn
P Carl Hubbell
P Steve Carleton
P Bruce Sutter
P Hoyt Wilhelm
P Walter Johnson
In the interest of player happiness, I’ll keep it at 11 pitchers.

C Johnny Bench
C Gabby Hartnett
1B Lou Gehrig
2B Eddie Collins
2B Joe Morgan
SS Arky Vaughn
OF Barry Bonds
OF Ty Cobb
OF Hank Aaron

30th Man:Double X himself, 1B Jimmie Foxx.

Manager: John McGraw
Coaching Staff: New York Giants

The B Team

LF Rickey Henderson
DH Lou Brock
SS Alex Rodriguez
RF Ken Griffey, Jr
CF Tris Speaker
1B Willie McCovey
C Yogi Berra
3B George Brett
2B Bobby Grich

SP Roger Clemens

P Bob Gibson
P Bob Feller
P Satchel Paige
P Randy Johnson
P Addie Joss
P Charles Radbourne
P Nolan Ryan
P Pedro Martinez
P John Smoltz
P Greg Maddux

C Biz Mackey
C Buck Ewing
2B Ryne Sandberg
SS Ozzie Smith
OF Oscar Charleston
OF Cool Papa Bell
OF Roberto Clemente
OF Joe DiMaggio
OF Mickey Mantle
Ut Ryan Freel (write-in)

Manager: Stacey Mack
Coaching Staff: Philadelphia Athletics

[Honus Wagner Rules]

A-Team

C- Josh Gibson
1B-Lou Gerhig
2B-Joe Morgan
SS-Honus Wagner
3B-Mike Schmidt
LF-Ted Williams
CF-Willie Mays
RF-Babe Ruth
SP-Roger Clemens
SP-Walter Johnson
SP-Greg Maddux
SP-Lefty Grove
RP-Dennis Eckersly
RP-Mariano Rivera
RP-Trevor Hoffman

The main reason I went with Mays over Cobb in center field was because of defense. With Williams in left and Ruth in right I needed a great defensive center fielder.


B- Team

C-Yogi Berra
1B-Jimmie Fox
2B-Eddie Collins
SS-Alex Rodriguez
3B-George Brett
LF-Barry Bonds
CF-Ty Cobb
RF-Hank Aaron
SP-Christy Matthewson
SP-Pete Alexander
SP-Cy Young
SP-Warren Spahn
RP-Hoyt Wilhelm
RP-Rollie Fingers
RP-Billy Wagner

[Wolverineman]

Alright, I haven't done this yet so I guess I will. And to make the distinction, I'm not just putting my top players at each position.


LF Rickey Henderson
1B George Sisler
RF Ty Cobb
C Josh Gibson
CF Oscar Charleston
SS Honus Wagner
2B Rogers Hornsby
3B Alex Rodriguez
Pitcher

Bench: Babe Ruth, Pete Rose, Tris Speaker, Joe Jackson, Ozzie Smith, Pudge Rodriguez, Jimmie Foxx

SP1 Satchel Paige
SP2 Christy Mathewson
SP3 Lefty Grove
SP4 Walter Johnson
SP5 Sandy Koufax

LR Pedro Martinez
MR Goose Gossage
MR John Franco
MR Hoyt Wilhelm
SU Dennis Eckersley
CP Mariano Rivera

[charlesTG126]

Maybe a Derby?

New-style with countries and all that

USA - Babe Ruth
Dominican Republic - Sammy Sosa
Cuba - Jose Canseco
Puerto Rico - Juan Gonzalez
Venezuela - Andres Galarraga
Mexico - Vinny Castilla
Japan - Hideki Matsui
Colombia - Andruw Jones
Jamaica - Chili Davis
South Korea - HEE SEOP IS AZN GOD! ahaha sorry inside joke...

yeah...

[Tavish]

Anybody like to take a shot?

Alright...

A-Team
C Josh Gibson
1B Lou Gehrig
2B Rogers Hornsby
SS Honus Wagner
3B George Brett
RF Babe Ruth
CF Ty Cobb
LF Barry Bonds
SP Walter Johnson
SP Mordecai Brown
SP Lefty Grove
SP Pete Alexander
RP Hoyt Wilhelm
RP Trevor Hoffman
RP Bruce Sutter

B-Team
C Johnny Bench
1B Jimmie Foxx
2B Eddie Collins
SS Ernie Banks (if he doesn't count then A-Rod)
3B Frank Baker
LF Ted Williams
CF Willie Mays
RF Tris Speaker
SP Christy Mathewson
SP Warren Spahn
SP Pedro Martinez
SP Greg Maddux
RP Dan Quisenberry
RP Mariano Rivera
RP Rollie Fingers

[538280]

I saw my original team and I said, "I can't belive I ever said that." I have changed many of my ratings, so here are my new teams. My A team hasn't changed much, but my B team has gone through a total makeover:

The A Team:

C-Josh Gibson
1B-Lou Gehrig
2B-Joe Morgan
3B-Mike Schmidt
SS-Honus Wagner
LF-Barry Bonds
CF-Oscar Charleston
RF-Babe Ruth

SP1-Walter Johnson
SP2-Satchel Paige
SP3-Greg Maddux
SP4-Roger Clemens
SP5-Lefty Grove
RP1-Hoyt Wilhelm
RP2-Dennis Eckersley
RP3-Goose Gossage
RP4-Mariano Rivera

The B Team:
C-Johnny Bench
1B-Jimmie Foxx
2B-Eddie Collins
3B-George Brett
SS-Pop Lloyd
LF-Ted Williams
CF-Wille Mays
RF-Hank Aaron

SP1-Cy Young
SP2-Smokey Joe Williams
SP3-Pete Alexander
SP4-Bob Gibson
SP5-Tom Seaver
RP1-Dan Quisenberry
RP2-Billy Wagner
RP3-John Wetteland
RP4-Trevor Hoffman

[Yankee Legend]

A Team

C-Johnny Bench
1B-Lou Gehrig
2B-Rogers Hornsby
3B-George Brett
SS-Honus Wagner
RF-Babe Ruth
CF-Ty Cobb
LF-Ted Williams
SP-Walter Johnson
SP-Roger Clemens
SP-Christy Matthewson
SP-Lefty Grove
RP-Greg Maddux
RP-Dennis Eckersley
RP-Mariano Rivera

B Team

C-Yogi Berra
1B-Jimmie Foxx
2B-Eddie Collins
3B-Mike Schmidt
SS-Alex Rodriguez
RF-Hank Aaron
CF-Tris Speaker
LF-Barry Bonds
SP-Tom Seaver
SP-Randy Johnson
SP-Satchel Paige
SP-Cy Young
RP-Sandy Koufax
RP-Hoyt Wilhelm
RP-Rollie Fingers

[Edgartohof]

A Team

C - Johnny Bench
1B - Lou Gherig
2B - Rogers Hornsby
3B - Mike Schmidt
SS - Honus Wagner
LF - Ted Williams
CF - Ty Cobb
RF - Babe Ruth

SP - Walter Johnson
SP - Roger Clemens
SP - Lefty Grove
SP - Satchel Paige
SP - Cy Young
RP - Hoyt Wilhelm
RP - Mariano Rivera

B Team

C - Yogi Berra
1B - Jimmie Foxx
2B - Eddie Collins
3B - Wade Boggs
SS - Alex Rodriguez
LF - Stan Musial
CF - Willie Mays
RF - Hank Aaron

SP - Christy Matthewson
SP - G.C. Alexander
SP - Warren Spahn
SP - Randy Johnson
SP - Greg Maddux
RP - Goose Gossage
RP - Dennis Eckersley

[Bench 5]

A-Team

Mr. T (OK that was bad) :crazy

Manager - John McGraw
C Johnny Bench
1B Lou Gehrig
2B Eddie Collins
SS Honus Wagner
3B Mike Schmidt
OF Babe Ruth
OF Willie Mays
OF Ted Williams
SP Walter Johnson
SP Satchel Paige
SP Lefty Grove
SP Tom Seaver
SP Roger Clemens
RP Hoyt Wilhelm
RP Rollie Fingers
RP Dennis Eckersley


B-Team
Manager - Billy Martin
C Josh Gibson
1B Jimmie Foxx
2B Joe Morgan
SS Cal Ripken
3B Eddie Matthews
OF Stan Musial
OF Ty Cobb
OF Hank Aaron
SP Steve Carlton
SP Greg Maddox
SP Cy Young
SP Warren Spahn
SP Bob Gibson
RP Lee Smith
RP Mariano Rivera
RP Bruce Sutter

[Cyclone792]

A Team

C - Josh Gibson
1B - Lou Gehrig
2B - Eddie Collins
3B - Mike Schmidt
SS - Honus Wagner
LF - Ted Williams
CF - Ty Cobb
RF - Babe Ruth

SP - Walter Johnson
SP - Lefty Grove
SP - Roger Clemens
SP - Cy Young
SP - Grover Alexander
RP - Mariano Rivera
RP - Goose Gossage
RP - Hoyt Wilhelm
RP - Dennis Eckersley


B Team

C - Johnny Bench
1B - Jimmie Foxx
2B - Rogers Hornsby
3B - Eddie Mathews
SS - Arky Vaughan
LF - Barry Bonds
CF - Willie Mays
RF - Hank Aaron

SP - Christy Mathewson
SP - Greg Maddux
SP - Tom Seaver
SP - Warren Spahn
SP - Satchel Paige
RP - Billy Wagner
RP - Trevor Hoffman
RP - John Wetteland
RP - Dan Quisenberry

[baseballPAP]

First Team
C-Johnny Bench
1B-Lou Gehrig
2B-Rogers Hornsby
3B-Mike Schmidt
SS-Honus Wagner
LF-Ted Williams
CF-Willie Mays
RF-Babe Ruth
DH-Edgar Martinez
RHSP-Walter Johnson
LHSP-Lefty Grove
RP-Mariano Rivera

Second Team
C-Josh Gibson
1B-Jimmie Foxx
2B-Eddie Collins
SS-Alex Rodriguez
3B-Eddie Mathews
LF-Barry Bonds
CF-Ty Cobb
RF-Hank Aaron
DH-Paul Molitor
RHSP-Roger Clemens
LHSP-Warren Spahn
RP-Hoyt Wilhelm

and just for fun,pre-1900:
C-Buck Ewing
1B-Dan Brouthers
2B-Cupid Childs
SS-Hugh Jennings
3B-Jimmy Collins
LF-Ed Delahanty
CF-Billy Hamilton
RF-Sam Thompson/King Kelly
P-Bob Caruthers

[Bill Burgess]

Could everyone who has contributed an All-Time All-Star Team here, transfer that team to "Members Official Opinions"? That would be great. Thanks.

Bill

http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=38137

[BaseballHistoryNut]

TEAM A

1B: Gehrig
2B: Morgan
3B: Schmidt
SS: Wagner
LF: Williams (Bonds counts through 1999 only; otherwise, Bonds #1)
CF: Mays
RF: Ruth
C: Campanella (Or Gibson, if eligible)
P1: Grove
P2: Clemens
P3: Maddux
P4: W. Johnson
P5: Pedro Martinez (oops; slight oversight, lolol)
R: Wilhelm


TEAM B

1B: Bagwell
2B: Hornsby
3B: Mathews
SS: Ripken
LF: Musial
CF: Cobb
RF: Aaron (pretty damned good in CF and RF, lol)
C: Bench
P1: Spahn
P2: Alexander (haven't really thought through my top righties)
P3: R. Johnson
P4: Young (ditto)
P5: Seaver
R: Eckersley

[Mariano_Rivera]

Team A

C Johnny Bench

1B Lou Gehrig

2B Rogers Hornsby

SS Honus Wagner

3B Alex Rodriguez

RF Babe Ruth

CF Ty Cobb

LF Ted Williams

SP Walter Johnson

CL Mariano Rivera

MGR Connie Mack


Team B

C Yogi Berra

1B Hank greenburg (I expect to get some grief for this one)

2B Eddie Collins

SS Honus Wagner

3B Mike Schmidt

RF Hank Aaron

CF Tris Speaker

LF Willie Mays

SP Roger Clemens

CL Goose Gossage

MGR Casey Stengel

[jgangstahippie]

Team A
C:Josh Gibson
1B:Lou Gehrig
2B:Jackie Robinson
SS:Honus Wagner
3B:Alex Rodriguez
LF:Ted Williams
CF:Ty Cobb
RF:Mickey Mantle
DH:Babe Ruth
SP:Cy Young
SP:Christy Mattewson
SP-Walter Johnson
SP-Roger Clemens
SP-Nolan Ryan
CP-Mariano Rivera
Manager:Miller Huggins

Team B
C:Johnny Bench
1B:Jimmie Foxx
2B:Roger Hornsby
SS:Derek Jeter
3B:Mike Scmidt
LF:Hank Aaron
CF:Joe Dimaggio
RF:Willie Mays
DH:Barry Bonds
SP:Clevland Alexander
SP:Satchel Paige
SP:Randy Johnson
SP:Babe Ruth
SP:Sandy Kofax
RP:Hyot Wilhelm
Manager:Casey Stengal

[Huntington Avenue]

A Team

C Johnny Bench (I won't put Gibson because he wasn't MLB, unfortunately.)
1B Lou Gehrig
2B Joe Morgan
3B Mike Schmidt
SS Honus Wagner
LF Barry Bonds
CF Mickey Mantle
RF Babe Ruth

Bench
Rabbit Maranville
Bill Dickey
Roberto Clemente
Albert Pujols

SP Walter Johnson
SP Christy Mathewson
SP Roger Clemens
SP Pedro Martinez
SP Greg Maddux

RP Hoyt Wilhelm
RP Goose Gossage
CP Mariano Rivera

B Team

C Yogi Berra
1B Stan Musial
2B Rogers Hornsby
3B Eddie Mathews
SS Arky Vaughn
LF Ted Williams
CF Willie Mays
RF Hank Aaron

SP Pete Alexander
SP Tom Seaver
SP Randy Johnson
SP Steve Carlton
SP Cy Young

RP Rollie Fingers
RP Bruce Sutter
CP Trevor Hoffman

[PJ Arace]

Here goes.

First Team:

First Base-Lou Gehrig.

Second Base-Rogers Hornsby.

Shortstop-Honus Wagner.

Third Base-Mike Schmidt.

Left Field-Ted Williams.

Center Field-Willie Mays.

Right Field-Babe Ruth.

1st Catcher-Josh Gibson.

Extra Catcher-Johnny Bench.

Extra Infield-Jimmie Foxx.

Extra Infield-George Brett.

Exrta Outfield-Ty Cobb.

Extra Outfield-Oscar Charleston.

Pitching Staff:

Starting Pitcher-Lefty Grove.

Starting Pitcher-Walter Johnson.

Starting Pitcher-Sandy Koufax.

Starting Pitcher-Christy Mathewson.

Starting Pitcher-Satchel Page.

Starting Pitcher-Cy Young.

Relief Pitcher-Mariano Rivera.

Relief Pitcher-Goose Gossage.

Relief Pitcher-Rollie Fingers.

Relief Pitcher-Dennis Eckersley.

Hope you like it. If you don't, then:grouchy

[Minstrel]

Team A

C: Johnny Bench
1B: Lou Gehrig
2B: Rogers Hornsby
3B: Mike Schmidt
SS: Honus Wagner
RF: Babe Ruth
CF: Willie Mays
LF: Barry Bonds

SP1: Walter Johnson
SP2: Roger Clemens
SP3: Greg Maddux
SP4: Lefty Grove
SP5: Pete Alexander
RP1: Hoyt Wilhelm
RP2: Goose Gossage
RP3: Mariano Rivera
RP4: Dennis Eckersley


Team B

C: Mike Piazza
1B: Jimmie Foxx
2B: Eddie Collins
3B: Eddie Mathews
SS: Alex Rodriguez
RF: Stan Musial
CF: Mickey Mantle
LF: Ted Williams

SP1: Cy Young
SP2: Pedro Martinez
SP3: Randy Johnson
SP4: Tom Seaver
SP5: Christy Mathewson
RP1: Dan Quisenberry
RP2: Bruce Sutter
RP3: Trevor Hoffman
RP4: Billy Wagner

[johnnypapa]

A Team

C Yogi Berra
1B Lou Gehrig
2B Rogers Hornsby
3B Mike Schmidt
SS Arod
LF Ted Williams
CF Willie Mays
RF Babe Ruth

SP Walter Johnson
SP Lefty Grove
SP Roger Clemens
SP Pedro Martinez
SP Randy Johnson

Closer Mariano Rivera
RP Hoyt Wilhelm
RP Dennis Eckersley
RP Rollie Fingers
RP Goose Gossage


B Team

C Johnny Bench
1B Jimmie Foxx
2B Joe Morgan
SS Honus Wagner
3B Eddie Mathews
LF Hank Aaron
CF Ty Cobb
RF Mickey Mantle


SP Greg Maddux
SP Christy Mathewson
SP Pete Alexander
SP Tom Seaver
SP Bob Gibson

Closer Trevor Hoffman
RP Firpo Marberry
RP Bruce Sutter
RP Dan Quisenberry
RP Lee Smith

Oh yeah...someone has to manage these guys....I'll pick two.

In the era when ownership had the upper hand I'll take Casey Stengel.
Now that the players have the upper hand I'll take Joe Torre to manage all those egos.

[ChrisLDuncan]

A: Line up (25 man roster)

SS: Honus Wagner
CF: Ty Cobb
2B: Rogers Hornsby
RF: Babe Ruth
DH: Ted Williams
3B: Mike Schmidt
1B: Lou Gehrig
LF: Barry Bonds
C: Yogi Berra


I really don't like that I have all those Lefties in that line up...I'd like to alter that

BENCH:

4th OF: Mickey Mantle
5th OF: Tris Speaker

UTIL INF: Alex Rodriguez
UTIL INF: Eddie Collins
UTIL INF: Jimmy Foxx
BC: Johnny Bench

SP: Roger Clemens
SP: Walter Johnson:
SP: Lefty Grove
SP: Tom Seaver
SP: Pete Alexander

RP: Dennis Eckersly
RP: Sparky Lyle
RP: Goose Gossage
RP: Trevor Hoffman
RP: Mariano Rivera


B Line up

LF: Rickey Henderson
SS: Alex Rodriguez
CF: Mickey Mantle
LF: Stan Musial
RF: Henry Aaron
DH: Barry Bonds
1B: Jimmy Foxx
3b: George Brett
2b: Eddie Collins

[Bill Burgess]

This thread is now closed. I ask all those members who still wish to post their All-Time All-Star Teams, A & B, to now post them on this more recent Documentation thread, 'Members' Official Opinions'.

http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=38137

And I also ask those of you who haven't already done so, to transfer your posted teams here to the new thread.

Thank you so much for continuing to assist in documenting our opinions on Fever. I appreciate your continued support.

Bill Burgess

[Bill Burgess]

I ask all those members who still wish to post their All-Time All-Star Teams, A & B, to now post them on this more recent Documentation thread, 'Members' Official Opinions'.

http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=38137

And I also ask those of you who haven't already done so, to transfer your posted teams here to the new thread.

Thank you so much for continuing to assist in documenting our opinions on Fever. I appreciate your continued support.

I am reopening this thread.