Robby Alomar - HOFer?

[Brad Harris]

I would say Alomar and Larkin should go in the same year -- as in, year one -- since they are both HOF players in my book with little doubt.

Martinez and McGriff are more on the borderline and I'm interested to see how the voters will view them. Ventura I believe will get a raw deal -- although it wouldn't be a felony to throw him out of the discussion. Galarraga's not on my radar although he may get more love than Ventura.

All in all, 2010 looks like a pretty good class...

I agree about Ventura. He's a shoo-in for "one-and-done" but he's certainly a candidate worthy of attention in discussions of third basemen. There's a good argument that he, not Chipper or Matt Williams, was the best third baseman of the 1990s.

[RuthMayBond]

I agree about Ventura. He's a shoo-in for "one-and-done" but he's certainly a candidate worthy of attention in discussions of third basemen. There's a good argument that he, not Chipper or Matt Williams, was the best third baseman of the 1990s.Only because Chipper missed the first, oh, HALF of the 90s

[Brad Harris]

Only because Chipper missed the first, oh, HALF of the 90s

Yes, but he did miss it. The point isn't to try and weasel one particular guy into any niche, but rather to discuss the borderline candidates (Ventura, Williams) from a given era. Anyhow who doesn't see Chipper as a Hall-of-Famer by now either has questionable knowledge about Chipper or questionable knowledge about the Hall of Fame.

[Greg Maddux's Biggest Fan]

Robby Alomar is a first ballot HOF'er all the way. One of the best second baseben of all time. I'd take his career over Jeff Kent's anyday.

[RuthMayBond]

I'd take his career of Jeff Kent's anyday.So would I, but I suspect that's not what you meant

[Brad Harris]

Yeah. Back to the topic. There's no doubt in my mind that Alomar is a Hall-of-Fame caliber player. I'm very curious, however, whether or not the BBWAA is going to remember him that way or as "the spitter", particularly in light of his fading so quickly and having Biggio's long march to 3,000 and Kent's HR record reached in the interregnum.

[Walt Zink]

Yeah. Back to the topic. There's no doubt in my mind that Alomar is a Hall-of-Fame caliber player. I'm very curious, however, whether or not the BBWAA is going to remember him that way or as "the spitter", particularly in light of his fading so quickly and having Biggio's long march to 3,000 and Kent's HR record reached in the interregnum.

i think he'll lose some votes for the former, but i do see him getting in at some point. it also depends on the field he runs up against. he could get in first ballot, but it would be with him getting around 80%. then again, i was very surprised it took sandberg three tries to get in....

[Paul Wendt]

Yeah. Back to the topic. There's no doubt in my mind that Alomar is a Hall-of-Fame caliber player. I'm very curious, however, whether or not the BBWAA is going to remember him that way or as "the spitter", particularly in light of his fading so quickly and having Biggio's long march to 3,000 and Kent's HR record reached in the interregnum.
I think most of them will remember that they thought Alomar must be one of the best secondbasemen of all time (with some talk of number one from latterday enthusiasts) and they never thought of Biggio or Kent as one of the alltime greats.

[RuthMayBond]

I think most of them will remember that they thought Alomar must be one of the best secondbasemen of all time (with some talk of number one from latterday enthusiasts) and they never thought of Biggio or Kent as one of the alltime greats.Pretty good revisionism

[STLCards2]

Alomar was thought of and spoken as "the best 2nd baseman in the game" anda "Future Hall of Famer" back to the mid-90's. The spitting incident was one blip on the perception radar, and people will overlook one incident. How many years did it take Marichal (who could have very well killed somebody) to get elected?

Alomar's sudden decline is more lilkely to hurt his chances, but surely those guys remember how great he was.

Note: To the average writer/anouncer,Biggio was not taken seriously as a HOF candidate until it became evident that he was probably going to get 3,000 hits.

Ventura: the early to mid 90's was a down period for thirdbasemen, bridging the gap between Boggs and Brett and Chipper, Rolen, and eventualy Rodriguez. Ventura was the best 3rdbaseman of that time, but he should not be rewarded because the competition was not great.

[Fuzzy Bear]

The spitting incident has been mentioned, and I think that will cost Alomar in HOF voting.

The BBWAA has a sanctimonious streak a mile wide. It's why they are dumping on McGwire (who should be in, no questions asked). They will remember this incident, and it's an incident that makes people not like Alomar. (Frankly, I don't like him much, personally, and that's the reason why.)

The other factor is that Alomar is a second baseman, and the HOF electors have been more fickle and unpredictable about electing second basemen than any other position. Second base is the position where there is a larger gray area than at any other position. It's why Billy Herman is in, but Lou Whitaker isn't. It's why Bill Mazeroski is in, but Willie Randolph isn't. It's why Ryne Sandberg took several tries to get in.

There is no reason why Alomar should not be in the HOF. And I think that he will go in; he'll make it no later than the third ballot, and I believe he will still be a 1st ballot choice.

I also think that, over time, Alomar will regain his standing vs. Craig Biggio. Until Bill James' 2000 version of the Historical Baseball Abstract, the prevailing opinion was that Alomar was the better player. Then James came out and made the claim that Biggio was the 35th greatest player in baseball history (a claim that he has, I am told, backed off from somewhat). This was a ridiculous assertion. Biggio's a HOFer, but he was no more than equal to Alomar, maybe. He was not better. They were equal on offense, but Alomar won ten (10) Gold Gloves to Biggio's four (4). That's a HUGE difference. Biggio has an edge on longevity, somewhat, but Biggio really didn't add much to his career in recent years. Biggio's conversion from catcher to second base was remarkable, but is it really more remarkable than ten (10) Gold Gloves? If the BBWAA doesn't elect Alomar, shame on them for being petty and stupid.

[Greg Maddux's Biggest Fan]

I can't believe some people even think Robin Ventura is a HOF'er. Thats not the way I see his career. He probably end up like the Ron Santo of this generation. And that means he's never getting in.

That's the way it should be IMO

[Paul Wendt]

I can't believe some people even think Robin Ventura is a HOF'er. Thats not the way I see his career. He probably end up like the Ron Santo of this generation.
Many of his supporters rank Santo above Brooks Robinson and Darrell Evans. It's reasonable to find a "generation" between Eddie Mathews and Mike Schmidt (Schmidt two generations after Mathews).

The window for Robin Ventura and Matt Williams, between Wade Boggs and Chipper Jones, is not a reasonable "generation" even in baseball.

"Best of his generation" doesn't alone make a good case but here I don't believe it even applies.

P.S.
Alomar is a shoo-in, not a shoe-in :lookitup:

[Freakshow]

P.S.
Alomar is a shoo-in, not a shoe-in :lookitup:
Surely you're familiar with Shoo-less Joe.:waving

[Freakshow]

I can't believe some people even think Robin Ventura is a HOF'er. Thats not the way I see his career. He probably end up like the Ron Santo of this generation. And that means he's never getting in.

That's the way it should be IMO
This'll probably burst your bubble, but Santo IS getting in. Maybe even before he dies. I hope so; his induction speech will be kinda dull otherwise.:hp

[philkid3]

I can't believe some people even think Robin Ventura is a HOF'er. Thats not the way I see his career. He probably end up like the Ron Santo of this generation. And that means he's never getting in.

That's the way it should be IMO

Comparing Ron Santo to Robin Ventura is pretty criminal. One of these guys is in a gray area where I can see an argument. The other one should have been in decades ago.