Cathedrals

[Grounds Crew]

What is happening to our ballparks?
Baseball fields are such a part of the game, that many people go for the atmosphere.
Tiger Stadium is gone.
We have a fight to save Fenway. Soon Mr. S will be trying to move the Bronx Bombers. We have Wrigley, but for how long?
We need a law to protect our parks.

[BBNut]

>What is happening to our ballparks?

I agree and disagree with ya.

I hated to see Forbes Field go :'(

But was jumping for joy when Tiger Stadium closed. Plus, some of the "new" ballparks are glorious.

Coors Field and Bank One are both great. Even the new Braves ballpark is a hundred times better than the old one they had...

[TWTCommish]

Hi,

I think that...

1) It's unavoidable.

2) It's not that bad...these great parks will be replaced by other great parks...it just doesn't happen overnight.

Chris Bowyer - Commissioner
www.warningtrack.net

[Grounds Crew]

Yes, some of the new ones are good, and I am happy they are modeling them after the old parks, but once they are gone, they are gone.
My Tiger Stadium experience was awesome, and the peeling paint helped with that.
I suppose it is going to happen, so we must just try to avoid the toliet bowl design popular in the 70's

[Kroxquo]

I went to Tiger two years ago just to experience a game there for the first and last time. My best baseball experience ever. It's a crime that that's gone.

I went to Fenway last summer. I know there's the mystique and all, but the place really is decrepit. I'd still hate to see it go.

I have to admit, most of my experience growing up was at the Vet in Philly (yuck) and 3 Rivers In the 'Burgh (yuck again). My Dad still reminiscises about Shibe Park (he never calls it Connie Mack Stadium). There's a lot to be said for retaining tradition. Scary to think that (unless there's a park I'm missing) Candlestick is the third oldest park still in use.

[TWTCommish]

ESPN.com columnist Rob Neyer said that he likes the "new old-fashoined parks"...but that he'd love to see a totally updated, techie park...as in something that had all the gizmos and luxuries you'd expect from something built in the Year 2000...

I second that motion...maybe it wouldn't have that same cozy feel as Jacobs Field or Camden Yards, but it would probably be loaded with perks...cushoined seats, cupholders, things like that. I hope some team has the guts to pass this fad of building vintage parks and use their cash on something state-of-the-art.

Chris Bowyer - Commissioner
http://www.warningtrack.net

[TFAstros00]

Maybe the techie thing would be good, but, having experienced the Astrodome, a former techie thing of the sixties, I'm a little cautious about it. I loved my experiences at Jacobs, Camden, and Arlington, and I feel that the throwback parks are great. As for Wrigley, I agree with Neyer that it will remain standing for years to come, even as other parks get torn down, as a monument to early 20th century baseball.

[Grounds Crew]

How about a section in new parks for all of the modern ammeneties ?
There is just something about attending a game in an old park. The way it was intended.

[Kroxquo]

Absolutely right, there is nothing like the feel of the old parks. At Tiger and Fenway you're right on top of the field (literally in the case of the right field upper deck) and it truly is something trying to imagine Ty Cobb or Mickey Cochrane or Al Kaline playing exactly where you're looking. Give me peeling paint over cup holders any time.

[Beukeboom]

The shame of it is that the old ballparks aren't being replaced for the reasons that most people site. Sure some of them are falling apart,but they could easily be rennovated. The reason behind the new ballparks is simply greed. The owners know they can 1) make more money by renting out luxury boxes in new ballparks and 2) they know that they can get new ballparks completely paid for by the taxpayers. If they rennovated the old ballparks they might have to dig into their own pockets. However if they hold cities hostage under the threat of relocating thier franchise, taxpayers will inevitabley shell out the money to keep the team. No local politician will veto a tax hike referendum because who wants to be know as the city councilman that let the (fill in your team here) slip away? Unfotunately the sanctity of these last remaining cathedrals and of the game of baseball itself are often the last thing to be considered.

[Kroxquo]

I hate to keep going back to Tiger Stadium, but it is the perfect example of what you're saying. There was not a thing wrong with that park and now it's gone forever. I could see replacing a place like Municipal in Cleveland with the Jake (even people in Cleveland hated it.) But even a place like the Vet or 3 Rivers or Busch has history behind it. If the Cards ever move, are they taking the spot of McGwire's 62nd to a new stadium like the Braves took Aaron's 715 landing spot?

[Grounds Crew]

Lets not even get started with "Naming Rights"
Talk about greed.

[Beukeboom]

Tell me about it. I live in Orlando home of the new "T D Waterhouse Center".(I know its not a baseball stadium but the same principle applies).I mean first we the taxpayers of Orlando shell out $220 million to construct the "Orlando Arena" and then our corrupt and highly incompetent mayor sells the rights with the city itself only taking in a couple of million. My tax dollars didn't go to fund a huge advertising campaign for a major corporation did they? Well, apparrently so!

At least in this example it isn't a venue that has a long tradition behind it. What really gets to me is when they rename stadiums specifically named to honor someone or something with corporate sponsorships. Did you see they're now planning on renaming Lambeau Field?!!! What's next, the WhiteSox playing at "Www.ebay.com Park"? The Red Sox at "Foxnews.net Field"? I realize that it is highly naive to believe that professional sports has ever really been about anything other than pure crass commerce, but there has to be limits. At least try to put on the facade of some scintilla of dignity.

[Chin Music]

Unfortunately, whether or not a park is torn down isn't up to the government. Besides that, everything eventually wears down after time. Sooner or later, Wrigley will have to be destroyed, just like Tiger Stadium was.

[Beukeboom]

Yeah, but I'm not buying that all these old ballparks are quite as dilapidated as we'd be led to believe. I think these owners are simply seeing huge dollar signs in front of their eyes in the forms of luxury boxes, tax incentives, and parking revenues.Things fall apart, I just have my doubts as to if they are truly falling apart this fast.

[Grounds Crew]

I am sure with all of the technology in this world, I am sure someone knows how to rennovate a park

[Grounds Crew]

I highly recommend the following book:
Green Cathedrals by Phillip J. Lowry

[Kroxquo]

A friend of mine who worked for ESPN as an intern at the time Old Comiskey closed said he heard several of the guys there talking about the fact that Jerry Reinsdorf made that park sound in a lot worse shape than it really was. The fact was that he simply wanted a new park and neglected maintaining the old one until the city was forced to condemn it.

[Kroxquo]

Absolutely. Definitive work on baseball stadiums.

[Beukeboom]

I don't doubt that for a second. Is there anything that isn't below Reinsdorf?

[webmaster]

Green Cathedrals is the best reference book ever created for ballparks. The problem is finding copies! Last year I got mine and had to bid hard on eBay to get it and paid MORE than what it originally sold for.

The publisher should update the missing parks, correct the mistakes, add color pictures, and re-publish it as softcover and I think they would make a mint.

Are there any other "serious" ballpark reference books that were published long ago?

[Beukeboom]

Where did you sit at Fenway? When I got a chance to go there five years ago I loved it. We sat out in the right field stands and it was great. It practically felt like we were on the field. We even managed to yell stuff to the right fielder and crack him up a couple of times.
You're right about Candlestick (um..er..3com park) being the third oldest park being scary. What's even scarier is that pretty soon Shea Stadium is going to be one of the oldest. Heck, it is one of the oldest right now.

[Grounds Crew]

I have a paperback copy.
Lost Ballparks, A Celebration of Baseball's Legendary Fields
By: Lawrence S. Ritter
Another great book
as is
At Fenway by Dan Shaughnssey (sp?)

[Kroxquo]

At the end of the right field line in the lower deck, in the very top row. Pretty much directly opposite across the outfield from the top of the monster. The Mariners were in town for the game so we saw some of the game's greatest current players - Griffey (0 for 4 and an error), Rodriguez (also 0 for 4), and Martinez (showed up late for the game and wasn't inserted until the fifth inning.) Still had a good time.

[Beukeboom]

And the best part is that nowhere in the park do you feel like any player is out of heckling range. That must be why you hear players complain so often about the fans in Boston.

[TFAstros00]

Shouldn't someone keep a park open sooner or later as a museum, like Wrigley? That place is one of the few great stadiums left from the early 20th century- they have to do something with it. I think that the people of Chicago would step in before it was torn down- it's a landmark.

[TFAstros00]

The rate at which these parks are being destroyed is ridiculous, but what's even more ludicrous is the amount of taxpayer money spent on building these modern masterpieces. Aren't there still hungry to feed and clothe? Aren't there things in our society which matter more than sports? Couldn't that $250 million spent on Enron Field have been better allocated? Just a few thoughts...

[Grounds Crew]

I heard the red Sox were looking inot doing that with parts of Fenway, including The Wall.

[Beukeboom]

Yes, but what kind of civic pride is there in having affordable housing for the homeless or new textbooks in classrooms that will no longer be overcrowded? We ,the American taxpayer, would much rather have our city known throughout the land for being able to destroy your city in an athletic event. A half penny tax hike for education? Never!! A two cent tax to support some greedy corporate executive's new playground if he promises not to move our precious team away? Yeah, Yeah, okay anything you say! Just don't move our team!!
I consider myself to be someone who has a love and a passion for sports, but you are absolutely right. This is ridiculous. People really need to get their priorities straight.

[Beukeboom]

As much as it would be great to see, unless it were attatched to park of a new facility a museum like that couldn't sustain itself. Museums all around the country are closing or near closing due to lack of funds. When you factor in that a sports museum appeals to only a certain small demographic of the population and how little most sports fans appreciate the history of their games, I doubt a museum of that nature would last very long.

[TFAstros00]

I can't stand it either, but I don't mind that as much as parks like the Astrodome, where the outfield fence is covered with ads, making it look like a AA park. It was definitely bad when Candlestick Park became 3 Com Park- give me a break...

[TFAstros00]

Yeah, the tradition of that dates back as far as the team itself- Many of the Pirates who played in the first WS claimed that the fans won that series for Boston. That's why it's such a scary thought to me to tear these things down. Fenway is just about as tradition-rich as it gets.

[TFAstros00]

Well, we all know that mortgaging a team that is 2 games out of first place isn't beyond him- why shouldn't this be?

[TFAstros00]

You are probably right, considering the fate of Boston Garden and many of the arenas in the NHL which have been monuments and have been torn down. Maybe there would be some way to raise public funds to maintain them or use them for some other purpose. We can always hope...

[TFAstros00]

Even though you meant most of that as a joke, I think you hit the public demeanor right on the head. I also have a passion for sports, especially baseball, and, even though the Enron Field funding came mostly from a hotel tax and a rental car tax, these things could go to better sources, like the Star of Hope Mission that is found directly behind Enron. It annoys me even more that Houston is now considering appeasing the Rockets by building them a new arena. Combined with the football stadium being built in the current Astrodome parking lot, we are talking close to 800 million dollars, more than the GDP of many countries...

[Beukeboom]

Well, not be pedantic or anything but Fenway actually didn't open until 1912. I completely agree with you about not tearing it down, and about its rich tradition, but the 1903 World Series wasn't part of it.

[Beukeboom]

Yeah, but the outfield ads have been around forever. One of the most famous features of Ebbets Field was the right field sign for Abe Stark's suits. The sign stated he would give away a free suit to anyone who hit that sign. It doesn't get much more commercial than that. Luckily Carl Furillo kept a lot of those suits from being given away.

[Beukeboom]

Unfortunately, if they aren't going to be able to raise public funds to keep a team in that city or to rennovate a facility they aren't going to be able to keep an old one standing that isn't in use. Actually even if they do raise funds for a new ballplark no one is going to wnat to be taxed again to keep the old place. Frankly, nor should they. It would take some sort of private trust fund being donated and I don't see that as a rather likely scenario.

[Beukeboom]

Exactky, and I'm assuming in Houston you already have most of your other needs met. You have no homelessness, small class sizes and new books in your public schools, and you prefer to keep your air quality exactly at its present level? Well as long as all that's taken care of you might as well your taxes to support rich owners and corporations.

[TFAstros00]

Thats why it's especially bad here- we are the smog capital of the world and, just like all cities of Houston's size, we have thousands of homeless people. Houston ISD is caving in under its own weight, and most schools in it aren't exactly up to speed with many schools like the one I went to in the suburbs- It really is disgusting, and it really annoys me when people encourage support of these stadiums and teams claim that they have no support and need to leave when a new one won't be built. Don't we eventually come back to selfishness on most of these boards?

[TFAstros00]

The Rangers have something like that now, only its over 500 feet away and well above the RF fence- whats the point? I wish more owners would take a cue from Connie Mack- he never allowed ads on the fences at his parks.

[TFAstros00]

True, but I wasn't specific enough in what I was saying- I know it didn't open until later, but the proximity of the fans to the players has always been a factor, and the tradition carried over to Fenway- sorry about that...

[Beukeboom]

Actually, we should all be thankful that it hasn't degenerated to the point of the English soccer teams yet. Instead of the name of the team on their jersey they have the name of their corporate sponsor. For example, the jersy for the Derby Rams simply says "Walker Crisps".No mention whatsoever of the team or the city. If the owners didn't make so much money on merchandising the baseball jerseys I guarantee that would be next.

[Beukeboom]

Yes that seems to be quite a recurring theme. I think that speaks volumes about the present state of affairs for America and her beloved pasttime.

[bly11]

Agreed -- keep in mind that teams in the Japanese Central and Pacific League are already named after corporations rather than home cities (Yomiuri, Seibu, Orix, Nippon Ham).

I don't have a real problem with stadium naming rights, since most stadiums were named after team owners before -- Comiskey, Ebbets, Crosley, Forbes, Wrigley, Briggs -- and even now -- Jacobs. Mercifully, we were spared Yawkey Park, Ruppert Stadium, O'Malley Field and the Hofheinzdome.

If my team can be more competitive thanks to $50 mil given by the phone company to name the park, I can live with it. Besides, PacBell Park is just gorgeous.

[The Commissioner]

I have no problem with the ballparks being named after corporations, as long as the public's tax dollars weren't thrown in to help pay for it as well.

[VELCROHIDE]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-16-01 AT 04:00 PM (EST)[p]For being one of the older stadiums being used by major league baseball in this the year 2001, Shea Stadium is solid.

Having spent a childhood going to Candlestick Park, I was impressed with Shea.

I was also able to get to the Kingdome in Seattle and that eye sore made Candlestick appear homey.

Now the city of San Francisco has PacBell Park and all of our prayers have been answered. For anyone who has ever been a Giant fan who would go to the Coliseum in Oakland (before Al Davis carelessly added his seat design) for the sake of better conditions, both weatherwise and food/beverage, we have been blessed. Even though the American League meant nothing to us we went because Candlestick would do that to you every once in a while.

The run of stadiums built in the 1970s just was a move to build these monstrosities that could pack 60-70,000 butts in seats too far away to really see what was going on way down there on the diamond. It was as if you were watching the game through the wrong end of binoculars. Then you had those sections where you couldn't see a ball if it glanced off of a foul line and skipped into the corner of right or left field. But most of all, these were the years when Major League baseball gave us Astroturf.

The worst decision ever, by the OWNERS, was made to save money on the maintenance of the field and all they ended up doing was pay an insurmountable debt in medical bills for the irremediable damage that was done to "their" players. Their "pieces of meat".

[WillieKeeler]

I think it would be great to see cities (as Green Bay does with the Packers) own their athletic teams. Not only would this secure the team to its city but it would also encourage fan support. A team owned by the city would give an identity to a metropolis. Maybe then we could stop naming or parks after investment companies (I am a Broncos fan and I will never go to Invesco field, even though I live 2,000 miles away I will only go to Mile High Stadium). Though cities will probably never own their teams, it would be a great idea.

[The Commissioner]

Or if not own the team at least sign them into long term contracts forcing them to stay put. Say to the team "all right our tax dollars will go to build you a ballpark, but you can't turn around a decade later and demand we build you another or you'll leave town." There isn't a school in the Orlando area that isn't overcrowded and using cheap portables, yet the city is considering building the Magic a new arena when we still owe money on the first one. Its completely sickening.

[bigwes84]

u are a nut. jumping for joy when tiger stadium closed? did you ever see a game there? i think not cuz if you did you'd know it was something special. well youre probably spooning with your unnamed east coast ballplayer, good luck on your publishing career.

[kirk]

great post.you are so right greed is killing this great game.the owners should use their own money.no public money should be used.welfare for the rich.it's too bad we can't put the public money we put into our stadiums into our schools.

[BlessYouBoys84]

I recall reading about a minor league team in Kentucky or Tennessee which is operated as a non-profit organization. I have a feeling the stadium name might be a corporate name but the fact that the team itself is non-profit is similar to the thought of a team actually owned by the city. And on the subject of naming rights, if I had won the PowerSuperMegaJumbo lottery, I would buy the naming rights to the next stadium being built. Not name it after myself of course but perhaps something with local flavor. Comerica Park could be Kaline Park, PacBell Park could be Mays Field and so on.

[BlessYouBoys84]

>Unfortunately, whether or not a park is torn down isn't up
>to the government. Besides that, everything eventually wears
>down after time. Sooner or later, Wrigley will have to be
>destroyed, just like Tiger Stadium was.

Why do you people keep insisting that Tiger Stadium is, as Ernie Harwell puts it "Long gone!" ? The stadium is still at the corner of Michigan and Trumbull, not going anywhere. In fact, this summer it hosted a few exhibition games of semi-pro ball. The organizer of those events has even thought of placing an independent league (Northern League, Frontier League, etc) team at the corner. Personally, I don't know how well it would draw but the talent pool couldn't possibly be much worse than this years version of the Tigers. Anyway, the stadium is still owned by the city of Detroit and no plans to tear it down have ever been announced. In fact, I'm not sure it could, as it is on the National Register of Historic places. As a side note, I went to the Tigers game last night with a friend and he suggested that the city open it up for batting practice. He's willing to pay money just to hit balls there. Sound like a good idea anyone?

[bluezebra]

>>What is happening to our ballparks?
>
>I agree and disagree with ya.
>
>I hated to see Forbes Field go :'(
>
>But was jumping for joy when Tiger Stadium closed. Plus,
>some of the "new" ballparks are glorious.
>
>Coors Field and Bank One are both great. Even the new Braves
>ballpark is a hundred times better than the old one they
>had...

I went to two games at "The BOB" two years ago. It's a magnificent structure, but I had the feeling I was watching a baseball game in a mall. Even with the roof open. All the shops and eating places take away from a baseball atmosphere. And, I found there to be a lack of restrooms adequate to handle the crowds.

Baseball was meant to be played outdoors, on real grass, and in Sunlight.

Bob

[The Commissioner]

That sounds like a fantastic idea! I'd pay money just to travel up to Detroit to have batting practice there. Heck, they could probably open up a Tigers historical museum and a gift shop on site as well and start taking in some much needed revenue for the city.

[fenwayjeff]

Bless you- Bless you boys 84-

A great idea. I would fly in from the west coast to walk into Tiger Stadium again, let alone taking BP there.. WOW, just a fantastic idea...

Also, what a great team back in '84, hey? I am a transformed into a teen baseball nut living outside of Detroit all over again when I think back to that team and that summer. From Morris' no-no against the ChiSox on the game of the week to Gibbys second homer in Game 5 of the '84 WS- It was unforgettable....

-FenwayJeff-

[bly11]

Ah, the unstoppable '84 Tigers - producers of the only no-hitter I've ever seen. Thank you, Jack, and thank you, NBC Game of the Week!

Here's a little blurb on one event from last month at Tiger Stadium, courtesy of P.N. Antoine's Legends of Sports newsletter:

================================================== ===================

Women Make History As All Stars Set To Play Baseball at Tiger Stadium

Detroit has opened up their historical Tiger Stadium to the Women's Baseball League (WBL). The WBL will play their All Star game at Tiger Stadium in front of thousands of fans on Saturday, August 11th at 5:00 pm. An international match between the Detroit Danger and the Toronto All Stars will start the day at 12:00. A women's and youth instructional baseball clinic will take place at 3:00.

The All Star Game includes teams in the Great Lakes Conference (Cleveland Quest, South Bend Blue Sox, Chicago Storm, and Detroit Danger). Twenty-five players will participate. Other players from our WBL affiliated teams (Waterbury Diamonds, Baltimore Stars, New Jersey Nemesis, and New York Traffic) are also invited to play. A WBL All Star roster is available at http://www.baseballglory.com/.

In conjunction with the All Star Game, the WBL will host its first International competition. The home team, Detroit Danger, will be playing the Toronto All Stars, a collaboration of elite players from the Central Ontario Girls' Baseball League, (http://www.betweeninnings.net) at 12:00 on August 11th at Tiger Stadium. In between games, the WBL will conduct an instructional clinic for youth and women at 3:00.

For more information please email Women's Baseball League at Info@baseballglory.com or visit the WBL site at http://www.baseballglory.com./

[trosmok]

As a member of the Tiger Stadium Fan Club "where baseball belongs", I'm saddened by the new parks that try to look old fashioned. Afternoon games Wrigley and old Comiskey are still my favorite memories, Fenway and Candlestick are/were the devil on the players, but tremendous for the fans. Things do seem to be cyclical in baseball, and the modern-retro look may have run it's course. But, as someone mentioned, that toilet bowl design of the seventies was an abomination. You could be down on the field in Cincinnati, St.Louis, Pittsburgh, or Philadelphia, and not know which of the four towns you were in, if you didn't recognize the very minor differences.

[baseballwise]

Krox, I share your affection for the Tigers Stadium experience...except it happened to us at Comisky a few days before the wrecking ball (which was sitting outside in the shadow of the colossus they now use) did its dastardly deed. It was absolutely beautiful and looked exactly like ballparks are "supposed" to look. Now the White Sox play in a new stadium that looks like a football field with a baseball diamond at one end. Ugly!!!!!

Baseball is a game of beauty and trading amenities for ugly doesn't cut it with me!! The best amenity any park can offer is THE GAME.

The thought of losing the charm, history, and tradition of Fenway and Wrigley blows my mind. Baseball without them is like school without students!

This is a great thread that I just found and I hope others get on the bandwagon now that it's active again.

[Ram Man]

Its funny that old Comiskey and Tiger Stadiums are mentioned in this thread. I've been to a total of 34 major league stadiums (see my website shown in my signature below, then click the "page 2" link for a complete rundown) and the one day I spent at old Comiskey was the single best day of baseball that I've ever experienced. A 2-1 game with Randy Johnson on the mound on a beautiful, sunny day, half price tickets, great food, cold beer. It was FANTASTIC!!!

My trip to Tiger Stadium was also great, although not quite to the same degree.

[Jelp01]

Next week, on the 26th, I will get another chance to catch a game at Wrigley. I have been to a couple of other ballparks, the Oakland Coliseum and the overgrown airplane hangar known as the Kingdome in Seattle, and nothing even compares to Wrigley Field. The atmosphere, the sense of history, the food :D makes the whole experience special. I hope nothing happens to Wrigley Field. It and the few parks left like it make the experience of a major league game much more special.

[Paulmcall1]

Tiger Stadium is still standing although it is empty and on the endandered list.
All you need to appreciate it is sit in the upper deck at CoAmerica.
You're about halfway back in the lower deck stands when you are in the front row upstairs compared to cosy Tiger Stadium.

Going to CoAmerica is like going to the mall.
Great for shopping and going on a carousal but not so hot if you want to get up close and personal to the players.

By the way, I have started researching and writing a book on cosy Ebbets Field.
I have talked with Hall of Famer Ernie Harwell, ex Dodgers Gene Hermanski, Don Lund, ex bat boy Bil Phifer, writer Dave Anderson,
Jack (Popeye) Doyle of French Connection fame and 35 or so Brooklyn Dodger fans.

If you know anyone who went to Ebbets, ask them if they'd like to contribute a memory or two ok?

My email is Paulmcall1@AOL.COM

[trosmok]

Look forward to more on the Ebbets project, Paulmcall 1, keep us posted. If you want some great reading to add to your research, I strongly recommend Carl Erskine's Tales from the Dodger Dugout . The forward by Vin Scully is well written, and baseball fans can get a real feel for what the whole Brooklyn Dodger thing was about. Even Ken Smith, the Usher in Section 9 of Ebbets Field contributes some wit and wisdom. It was published in 2000 by Sports Publishing Inc., and they may be able to put you in touch with Oisk himself if you are interested.

[Paulmcall1]

Dear Trosmonk,
I have a letter out to Carl and I hope to call him soon.
I read his book not long ago.
He had some pretty funny stories in there.

[bluezebra]

Barring an unexpected tragedy, Wrigley Field will outlast everyone on this board.

Bob

[VTSoxFan]

I've been to Fenway 3 times this year -- 1st time, in May, I had the lousiest possible seats, waaaaay out behind the retired numbers -- but that was still right on top of right field. The other 2 times I had infield grandstand seats, with fabulous views right onto the infield.

I think the previous owners really wanted their dream park, the $660 mil. park built partially right on top of where Fenway is now, so they let ol' Fenway go to pot somewhat, when a little refurbishing was in order, so they could claim at was falling apart. I mean, there's absolutely no reason not to even paint the scabby patches! The new ownership is having a study done, and John Henry says that preliminary results show that there's no reason why Fenway can't be used for another 40 years. It's structurally sound, and it is a monument, a shrine to The Game. The only real concern driving the "replace Fenway" crowd is that it's tiny. There's room for a few more than 34,000 people, and the concourses are packed. They've recently annexed Yawkey Way during games, to use as an extra concourse (and that controversy is worthy of an entirely different thread) to ease the congestion inside. The park could use more seats, and there are various ideas floating around, perhaps about putting seats cantilevered back over the Wall, over Lansdowne street, or building a second deck.

The clubhouses are small, I guess, and when I took a tour of the park this summer I was just amazed at the minute dimensions of the dugouts. No doubt, the park could use some refurbishing. There's a LOT more advertising visible, notably the huge signs hung in the net over the Wall. People are forever complaining about the narrow grandstand seats, and the lack of cupholders, but I see no need for everyone to have both hands full of food from 1st pitch to last out. If I want to eat, I'll go to a restaurant. Fenway's not about food, Fenway's about Baseball.

Part of the tour was a visit to the .406 Club, formerly the 600 Club -- the big glassed in lux suite behind home plate. It costs almost $100 grand to get seats there, and there's a dress code! and it's soundproof! Forget it. Gimme the grandstand seats, peanut vendors and foul balls, and the freedom to wear whatever I want. If it were up to me, I'd get rid of that monstrosity and put seats for regular fans up there.

[yellowdog]

Thanks VT for a very good an informative post. Having never been to Fenway, I`m always interested in hearing firsthand reports from those who have.

These new ballparks aren`t all they`re cracked up to be. Granted , the only one I`ve been to is Turner Field, but if its even a little bit representative of this new breed of parks, I`ll take the old dionsaurs any day. There are times when I`m not sure if I`m at a ballgame or an amusement park. Its a shame baseball has to put on a side show to attract fans, but I guess its just the times in which we live.

I agree with you that Fenway is a monument to the game. And even though I`ve never seen it in person, baseball would just not be the same to me without it. I`m sure the Generation Xers would not understand that, but I`m old school to the core and damn proud of it.

Bluezebra said Wrigley Field will out live us all. I hope he is right! And I hope Fenway out lives me also.

[Ram Man]

I've been to Fenway, Wrigley, old Comiskey and Tiger stadiums. Yeah, they do have a lot of history and charm, but lets face it, they also have (had) some lousy seats, narrow concourses, fewer restrooms than necessary, crowded concession stands, etc. The old parks are fun to visit for a game or two every few years or maybe once in a lifetime, but if I want to have season tickets or go to more than 10 games per year, it is nice to go to parks like Coors Field, Oriole Park, the Ballpark in Arlington, Jacobs Field or the ridiculously named Minute Maid Park. There is nothing that says you have to have a bad seat or miss two innings going to the restroom and getting a hot dog to have fun at a ballgame.

If any of you have been or ever get the chance to go to MMP, be sure to do it. Don't worry about how old it is, just make sure to appreciate it for what it is - fabulous. It has the scoreboard in left field, the hill in center field, etc. - the kinds of things that many (including me) think are so "charming" about the old parks. Sure, there is a retractable roof, but hey, when the weather is good, it is open and when the weather is bad, let's just say you wouldn't want to go to a game in Houston with the roof open in bad (hot, humid) weather.

The Ballpark in Arlington is great too, although it does look somewhat out of place stuck in the middle of a parking lot. Coors Field, Oriole Park and Jacobs Field are situated in downtown areas and look like they belong there.

[Seattle1]

What is happening to our ballparks?
Baseball fields are such a part of the game, that many people go for the atmosphere.
Tiger Stadium is gone.

Tiger Stadium is one that should have stuck around and been perpetuated, upgraded, etc. like Fenway and Wrigley. (Though I do have to admit I like the location of Comercia Park better than Tiger Stadium.)

Just pour that money into maintenance, upgrades, etc. instead of building a whole new ballpark. It would have been worth it to save a place like that.

:atthepc

[Seattle1]

The Ballpark in Arlington is great too, although it does look somewhat out of place stuck in the middle of a parking lot.

I agree Citizens Bank Ballpark in Philadelphia is like that too. South of the city out in the midst of a bunch of highway interchanges. But that's where the Vet and the Spectrum always were so that's what they had to work with. Other than that, Citizens Bank Ballpark is great.

[mrow1927]

Tiger Stadium is one that should have stuck around and been perpetuated, upgraded, etc. like Fenway and Wrigley. (Though I do have to admit I like the location of Comercia Park better than Tiger Stadium.)

Just pour that money into maintenance, upgrades, etc. instead of building a whole new ballpark. It would have been worth it to save a place like that.

:atthepc

I agree with you. Try to preserve the classic stadiums that stood the test of time and have a rich history such as Tiger Stadium, Yankee Stadium, Fenway Park and Wrigley Field. Problem is that its getting too corporate. All these owners are worried about how many luxury boxes they can fit in the stadium than how they can make a better team to put more fans in the seats. Now baseball is more of a business than a sport. So in that it is kind of taking over the mystique and fun of the game and the stadiums. My opinion.